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	<title>Comments on: Net neutrality: John McCain says no &amp; Glenn Beck sees it as a Marxist plot</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: Phydeau</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-4/#comment-1594223</link>
		<dc:creator>Phydeau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1594223</guid>
		<description>If you want to pay Comcast more for videos streamed from Netflix compared to videos streamed from Comcast, then by all means, vote against net neutrality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to pay Comcast more for videos streamed from Netflix compared to videos streamed from Comcast, then by all means, vote against net neutrality.</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred1</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-4/#comment-1593822</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593822</guid>
		<description>#61 I recall reading John C Dvorak&#039;s opinion legislation isn&#039;t needed...till actual abuse occurs...that we already have &quot;net neutrality&quot; and there are laws that prevent anyone from blocking access.

http://pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351739,00.asp

But in another article he says its needed:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334686,00.html

The apparent contradiction is resolved by the lack of clear of definition what &quot;net neutrality&quot; is...

Unlike you liberals, who now trust Government will always act in your interest (talk about blind faith), I suspect sinister motives...

There is too much crap happening now...the Establishment Media won&#039;t report Government abuse...and there is figuratively reams of it...

Our &quot;watchdogs&quot; are now lapdogs...I&#039;d rather see the independence of the press restored...before fundamental rules are changed by the government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#61 I recall reading John C Dvorak&#8217;s opinion legislation isn&#8217;t needed&#8230;till actual abuse occurs&#8230;that we already have &#8220;net neutrality&#8221; and there are laws that prevent anyone from blocking access.</p>
<p><a href="http://pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351739,00.asp" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351739,00.asp' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351739,00.asp</a></p>
<p>But in another article he says its needed:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334686,00.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334686,00.html' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334686,00.html</a></p>
<p>The apparent contradiction is resolved by the lack of clear of definition what &#8220;net neutrality&#8221; is&#8230;</p>
<p>Unlike you liberals, who now trust Government will always act in your interest (talk about blind faith), I suspect sinister motives&#8230;</p>
<p>There is too much crap happening now&#8230;the Establishment Media won&#8217;t report Government abuse&#8230;and there is figuratively reams of it&#8230;</p>
<p>Our &#8220;watchdogs&#8221; are now lapdogs&#8230;I&#8217;d rather see the independence of the press restored&#8230;before fundamental rules are changed by the government.</p>
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		<title>By: Animby</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-4/#comment-1593776</link>
		<dc:creator>Animby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 03:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593776</guid>
		<description>#60 FTW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#60 FTW</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LibertyLover</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-4/#comment-1593732</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 00:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593732</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t that Willow from Buffy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t that Willow from Buffy?</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Thundernuts</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-4/#comment-1593731</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Thundernuts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 00:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593731</guid>
		<description>She could sit in a mud puddle and fart and I would eat the bubbles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She could sit in a mud puddle and fart and I would eat the bubbles.</p>
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		<title>By: Flip Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-4/#comment-1593726</link>
		<dc:creator>Flip Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 00:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593726</guid>
		<description>John McCain — ‘Tech Troglodyte’ And Top Recipient Of Telecom Cash — Unveils Bill To Block Net Neutrality

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/24/mccain-internet-freedom/

...

Last night on Rachel Maddow&#039;s show, Boing Boing co-editor Xeni Jardin explained the problem with McCain&#039;s legislation:
Telecoms, Internet service providers -- they already have a kind of monopoly. The idea here [with net neturality] is to prevent them from abusing that monopoly. ... They want freedom all right. They want to find new ways to charge us more money. [...]
Whenever there&#039;s a fight on the Internet, it&#039;s always good to side with the geeks who built the Internet, rather than the fat-cat telecom lobbyists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John McCain — ‘Tech Troglodyte’ And Top Recipient Of Telecom Cash — Unveils Bill To Block Net Neutrality</p>
<p><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/24/mccain-internet-freedom/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/24/mccain-internet-freedom/' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/24/mccain-internet-freedom/</a></p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>Last night on Rachel Maddow&#8217;s show, Boing Boing co-editor Xeni Jardin explained the problem with McCain&#8217;s legislation:<br />
Telecoms, Internet service providers &#8212; they already have a kind of monopoly. The idea here [with net neturality] is to prevent them from abusing that monopoly. &#8230; They want freedom all right. They want to find new ways to charge us more money. [...]<br />
Whenever there&#8217;s a fight on the Internet, it&#8217;s always good to side with the geeks who built the Internet, rather than the fat-cat telecom lobbyists.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Ho</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593539</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Ho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593539</guid>
		<description>@58

What&#039;s the matter Alfred?  Now you got something against Hawaiian shaman?

No wonder you&#039;ve never got leid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@58</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the matter Alfred?  Now you got something against Hawaiian shaman?</p>
<p>No wonder you&#8217;ve never got leid.</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred1</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593534</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593534</guid>
		<description>Once our tax and spend borrowed and printed money chaps who still run the economy after they derailed it, learn how to tax bandwidth usage...then you will learn why it might not have been good to let them into your house...to watch everything you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once our tax and spend borrowed and printed money chaps who still run the economy after they derailed it, learn how to tax bandwidth usage&#8230;then you will learn why it might not have been good to let them into your house&#8230;to watch everything you do.</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred1</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593533</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593533</guid>
		<description>#47 For the sake of Net Neutrality, for fairness and diversity, there should be a disclaimer attached all your posts...This poster is an idiot.

&quot;Kahunas?&quot; 

Case closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#47 For the sake of Net Neutrality, for fairness and diversity, there should be a disclaimer attached all your posts&#8230;This poster is an idiot.</p>
<p>&#8220;Kahunas?&#8221; </p>
<p>Case closed.</p>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593531</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593531</guid>
		<description>The USA consumer pays more for basic access tot he internet then any other country.

Only 1 backbone.  OWNED by the telco.

Why not create another backbone??  WHO made/built/paid for the original??  YOU PAID FOR IT.  And it took 50-70 years.

Is the INTERNET, really a NET??  nope.  Its like a ball of string with a few Knots in it to connect each of the pieces.

remember, CORPS pay for nothing.  it comes from your pocket, be it, the Gov or a corp.  The GOV will probably do it ALLOT cheaper/quicker/..  and build it to MAX spec. and upgradable.

Main problem with MOST of the tech??  there are advancements that could kill the Telco.
WE COULD take 2 fiber cables to EVERY HOME and ...
Supply power
Cable TV with channels from around the world.
Internet access to 100mbps
Wireless access by AREA of the town, not 100 feet away.
Mini Cell tower on each home, insted of a GIANT tower every 5 miles.

With just THESE options/upgrades, we are hitting the power/cellphone/TV/satellite/Telco/internet industries.  Even tho 1/2 of ALL these companies are already OWNED by the same group(or didnt you know that).

If we are going to regulate, LETS force them to UPGRADE the whole system.
If NOT..then lets tell the GOV. to UPGRADE the system, then FORCE the corps to PAY us for it.
Either way, WE/You and me, are going to be ALLOT poorer..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The USA consumer pays more for basic access tot he internet then any other country.</p>
<p>Only 1 backbone.  OWNED by the telco.</p>
<p>Why not create another backbone??  WHO made/built/paid for the original??  YOU PAID FOR IT.  And it took 50-70 years.</p>
<p>Is the INTERNET, really a NET??  nope.  Its like a ball of string with a few Knots in it to connect each of the pieces.</p>
<p>remember, CORPS pay for nothing.  it comes from your pocket, be it, the Gov or a corp.  The GOV will probably do it ALLOT cheaper/quicker/..  and build it to MAX spec. and upgradable.</p>
<p>Main problem with MOST of the tech??  there are advancements that could kill the Telco.<br />
WE COULD take 2 fiber cables to EVERY HOME and &#8230;<br />
Supply power<br />
Cable TV with channels from around the world.<br />
Internet access to 100mbps<br />
Wireless access by AREA of the town, not 100 feet away.<br />
Mini Cell tower on each home, insted of a GIANT tower every 5 miles.</p>
<p>With just THESE options/upgrades, we are hitting the power/cellphone/TV/satellite/Telco/internet industries.  Even tho 1/2 of ALL these companies are already OWNED by the same group(or didnt you know that).</p>
<p>If we are going to regulate, LETS force them to UPGRADE the whole system.<br />
If NOT..then lets tell the GOV. to UPGRADE the system, then FORCE the corps to PAY us for it.<br />
Either way, WE/You and me, are going to be ALLOT poorer..</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred1</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593528</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593528</guid>
		<description>http://internetfreedomcoalition.org/

While you liberals believe letting the Wolf in sheep&#039;s clothing into the hen house is good for the hens...I do not:

http://foxnews.com/opinion/2009/10/05/phil-kerpen-obama-internet-czar-acorn/

Proponents of net neutrality rely on the scare tactic that big bad cable and phone companies will block access to Web sites and cause other mischief unless the benevolent federal government rides to the rescue, and soon.  But they’ve been ringing this alarm for the better part of a decade and none of the horrors they warn us about have happened.  There is a simple reason—these companies are in an intense competition, especially in the wireless space, which is as cutthroat as any industry in America.  If one company tried to block access to Web sites or engage in other mischief, they would lose their customers in droves to the competition. 

 

Net neutrality regulations would destroy private investment and we would end up with a government-owned and controlled network. We’ll have nowhere to go if the government turns out to be not quite as benevolent as some have hoped. That’s a frightening scenario and we should do everything we can to stop the net neutrality regulation that would start us down that path.

###

That&#039;s the pivot point...benevolent or malevolent? Which is Government?

I see Government as the founding fathers do...hence our &quot;charter of negative rights&quot;-Obama...the Constitution does not allow the Government screw us, it says so in writing.

There was a time when liberals distrusted Government...now that it lies to them every day about everything...that time has ceased...you &quot;liberalism&quot; should be renamed, its now &quot;lapdogism.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://internetfreedomcoalition.org/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://internetfreedomcoalition.org/' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://internetfreedomcoalition.org/</a></p>
<p>While you liberals believe letting the Wolf in sheep&#8217;s clothing into the hen house is good for the hens&#8230;I do not:</p>
<p><a href="http://foxnews.com/opinion/2009/10/05/phil-kerpen-obama-internet-czar-acorn/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href='http://foxnews.com/opinion/2009/10/05/phil-kerpen-obama-internet-czar-acorn/' rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://foxnews.com/opinion/2009/10/05/phil-kerpen-obama-internet-czar-acorn/</a></p>
<p>Proponents of net neutrality rely on the scare tactic that big bad cable and phone companies will block access to Web sites and cause other mischief unless the benevolent federal government rides to the rescue, and soon.  But they’ve been ringing this alarm for the better part of a decade and none of the horrors they warn us about have happened.  There is a simple reason—these companies are in an intense competition, especially in the wireless space, which is as cutthroat as any industry in America.  If one company tried to block access to Web sites or engage in other mischief, they would lose their customers in droves to the competition. </p>
<p>Net neutrality regulations would destroy private investment and we would end up with a government-owned and controlled network. We’ll have nowhere to go if the government turns out to be not quite as benevolent as some have hoped. That’s a frightening scenario and we should do everything we can to stop the net neutrality regulation that would start us down that path.</p>
<p>###</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the pivot point&#8230;benevolent or malevolent? Which is Government?</p>
<p>I see Government as the founding fathers do&#8230;hence our &#8220;charter of negative rights&#8221;-Obama&#8230;the Constitution does not allow the Government screw us, it says so in writing.</p>
<p>There was a time when liberals distrusted Government&#8230;now that it lies to them every day about everything&#8230;that time has ceased&#8230;you &#8220;liberalism&#8221; should be renamed, its now &#8220;lapdogism.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred1</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593508</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593508</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the genius of a Trojan horse...it looks desirable...good.


Both Beck and McCain are men of integrity...and we ignore their warnings at our peril.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the genius of a Trojan horse&#8230;it looks desirable&#8230;good.</p>
<p>Both Beck and McCain are men of integrity&#8230;and we ignore their warnings at our peril.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593506</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593506</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;ve read this far...

If you want a neutral network, build your own. Raise capital, hire engineers, construction crews, sales people, marketing people, call centers, etc. Then lawyers to negotiate peering agreements, secure the &quot;public&quot; rights of way, pole attachments, etc. 

At some point, you&#039;ll realize it&#039;s cheaper to lease fiber from the telcos, but not so cheap that you&#039;ll make money without having a few thousand people&#039;s traffic traversing that (somewhat) thin pipe you&#039;re paying Qwest, AT&amp;T and Verizon for.

The telcos don&#039;t do anything to your traffic, other than mix it on to their SONET network, or if you feel like paying enough (like Level3, Sprint and MCI), you&#039;ll get dark fiber in their sheath. You can terminate only where they say you can, which is usually somewhere near a railroad track. hopefully you&#039;ll not need to get service to the other side of the tracks, because the railroads only let you cross at specific places, usually no where near where you need to be.

And what the heck is this public Internet anyway? Most traffic is handled through private peering agreements these days, not through MAEs. That&#039;s one reason Google has such low latency: they peer directly with the ISPs. Will the FCC interfere with private peering agreements (contracts)? Dangerous precedent, slippery slope, whatever.

And remember, just because you like the guys in charge now, doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;ll be around in 4 years...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;ve read this far&#8230;</p>
<p>If you want a neutral network, build your own. Raise capital, hire engineers, construction crews, sales people, marketing people, call centers, etc. Then lawyers to negotiate peering agreements, secure the &#8220;public&#8221; rights of way, pole attachments, etc. </p>
<p>At some point, you&#8217;ll realize it&#8217;s cheaper to lease fiber from the telcos, but not so cheap that you&#8217;ll make money without having a few thousand people&#8217;s traffic traversing that (somewhat) thin pipe you&#8217;re paying Qwest, AT&amp;T and Verizon for.</p>
<p>The telcos don&#8217;t do anything to your traffic, other than mix it on to their SONET network, or if you feel like paying enough (like Level3, Sprint and MCI), you&#8217;ll get dark fiber in their sheath. You can terminate only where they say you can, which is usually somewhere near a railroad track. hopefully you&#8217;ll not need to get service to the other side of the tracks, because the railroads only let you cross at specific places, usually no where near where you need to be.</p>
<p>And what the heck is this public Internet anyway? Most traffic is handled through private peering agreements these days, not through MAEs. That&#8217;s one reason Google has such low latency: they peer directly with the ISPs. Will the FCC interfere with private peering agreements (contracts)? Dangerous precedent, slippery slope, whatever.</p>
<p>And remember, just because you like the guys in charge now, doesn&#8217;t mean they&#8217;ll be around in 4 years&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyLover</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593500</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593500</guid>
		<description>#38, Bingo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#38, Bingo.</p>
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		<title>By: Animby</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/23/net-neutrality-john-mccain-says-no-glenn-beck-sees-it-as-a-marxist-plot/comment-page-3/#comment-1593458</link>
		<dc:creator>Animby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=60905#comment-1593458</guid>
		<description># 46 qb said, &quot;Come on Alfred1, show some kahunas dude.&quot;

Cojones, anyone?

Kahunas are Hawaiian shamans (shamen?)


Sorry, qb. I did enjoy your posts, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 46 qb said, &#8220;Come on Alfred1, show some kahunas dude.&#8221;</p>
<p>Cojones, anyone?</p>
<p>Kahunas are Hawaiian shamans (shamen?)</p>
<p>Sorry, qb. I did enjoy your posts, though.</p>
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