Comments on: Arizona to Privatize Death Row http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/ General interest observations and true web-log. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:49:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: LibertyLover http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594596 LibertyLover Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:03:37 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594596 #38, I agree we are spending a smaller percentage. Here is a good chart showing what I was talking about. Prices are going up. Unfortunately, our wages aren't keeping up. http://tinyurl.com/yh97oll #38, I agree we are spending a smaller percentage.

Here is a good chart showing what I was talking about. Prices are going up. Unfortunately, our wages aren’t keeping up.

http://tinyurl.com/yh97oll

]]> By: Phydeau http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594557 Phydeau Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:13:07 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594557 #37 Actually what I read was looking at a time span of decades. I have no doubt that in recent years costs are going up. But the articles said that 50 years ago we spent a third of our budget on food, now it's closer to 10%. #37 Actually what I read was looking at a time span of decades. I have no doubt that in recent years costs are going up. But the articles said that 50 years ago we spent a third of our budget on food, now it’s closer to 10%.

]]> By: LibertyLover http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594485 LibertyLover Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:12:55 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594485 #36, <i>And food has gone way down in price over the years.</i> I'm not sure I agree with that. I purchase food for groups of people on a regular basis. The price is definitely going up, not down. Heck, the cost of a hamburger at McD's is twice what it was 10 years ago. #36, And food has gone way down in price over the years.

I’m not sure I agree with that. I purchase food for groups of people on a regular basis. The price is definitely going up, not down.

Heck, the cost of a hamburger at McD’s is twice what it was 10 years ago.

]]> By: Phydeau http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594439 Phydeau Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:33:09 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594439 Well I'm with you on the exploiting illegals issue, Benjamin. And food has gone way down in price over the years. Perhaps too much, if we need illegals working poverty wages to keep the prices that low. And yes, LL, big biz is naturally a better fit with the R's but they back the winner too. Well I’m with you on the exploiting illegals issue, Benjamin. And food has gone way down in price over the years. Perhaps too much, if we need illegals working poverty wages to keep the prices that low.

And yes, LL, big biz is naturally a better fit with the R’s but they back the winner too.

]]> By: Benjamin http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594383 Benjamin Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:37:31 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594383 #31 Phydeau, "And btw, Republicans love paying people below the minimum wage, so your pious concern is totally unconvincing, coming from a wingnut." BTW, I don't vote for people based on an R or D by their name. I vote based on how I believe these individuals will govern. Yes, I vote for individuals candidates from one party more than the other, but I do not vote based on party. There is right and their is wrong and I still think it is wrong to exploit illegals by paying them less than minimum wage. #31 Phydeau, “And btw, Republicans love paying people below the minimum wage, so your pious concern is totally unconvincing, coming from a wingnut.”

BTW, I don’t vote for people based on an R or D by their name. I vote based on how I believe these individuals will govern. Yes, I vote for individuals candidates from one party more than the other, but I do not vote based on party. There is right and their is wrong and I still think it is wrong to exploit illegals by paying them less than minimum wage.

]]> By: Benjamin http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594361 Benjamin Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:42:53 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594361 #31 Phydeau, "And spare me the outrage over cheating workers. We all know what the story is. Americans turn a blind eye to the plight of undocumented workers because they work for cheap. And we love cheap. We could solve the problem immediately: heavy fines for companies that hire illegals. But then they would be forced to hire Americans at American wages, and their costs and prices would immediately go way up." I agree that that is the answer. Businesses would have to pay to buy machines that would make those jobs safer and easier to do. Americans will do those jobs if they paid a fair wage. My problem with minimum wage increases is that they are inflationary. That is a separate issue from people paying illegals below minimum wage. We had a meat packing plant raided in my state. When they reopened, there was a line of Americans about a mile long trying to get the jobs that the deported illegals had held. Don't talk to me about jobs Americans won't do. Food, as a percentage of income, is pretty cheap in this country. Companies that break the law should not get an advantage over companies that do not. #31 Phydeau, “And spare me the outrage over cheating workers. We all know what the story is. Americans turn a blind eye to the plight of undocumented workers because they work for cheap. And we love cheap. We could solve the problem immediately: heavy fines for companies that hire illegals. But then they would be forced to hire Americans at American wages, and their costs and prices would immediately go way up.”

I agree that that is the answer. Businesses would have to pay to buy machines that would make those jobs safer and easier to do. Americans will do those jobs if they paid a fair wage.

My problem with minimum wage increases is that they are inflationary. That is a separate issue from people paying illegals below minimum wage.

We had a meat packing plant raided in my state. When they reopened, there was a line of Americans about a mile long trying to get the jobs that the deported illegals had held. Don’t talk to me about jobs Americans won’t do.

Food, as a percentage of income, is pretty cheap in this country. Companies that break the law should not get an advantage over companies that do not.

]]> By: LibertyLover http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594360 LibertyLover Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:42:40 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594360 #30/31, Here are the top 10 recipients of bribes ^K^K^K^K^K^Kdonations from Agri-Business. John McCain $757,247 Saxby Chambliss $422,219 Devin Nunes $317,243 Jerry Moran $161,861 Mitch McConnell $160,050 Rep Total $1,818,620 Barack Obama $417,323 Robert Berry $251,550 Jim Costa $223,119 John Kerry $213,851 Collin Peterson $162,421 Dem Total $1,268,264 The republicans are definitely in the lead but the democrats are certainly not clean on this. #30/31, Here are the top 10 recipients of bribes ^K^K^K^K^K^Kdonations from Agri-Business.

John McCain $757,247
Saxby Chambliss $422,219
Devin Nunes $317,243
Jerry Moran $161,861
Mitch McConnell $160,050

Rep Total $1,818,620

Barack Obama $417,323
Robert Berry $251,550
Jim Costa $223,119
John Kerry $213,851
Collin Peterson $162,421

Dem Total $1,268,264

The republicans are definitely in the lead but the democrats are certainly not clean on this.

]]> By: Phydeau http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594327 Phydeau Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:24:44 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594327 Though I have to say, I can't blame the Republicans completely... the American public is at fault too. If you asked the average supermarket shopper to choose between a package of lettuce for $3 picked by illegal immigrants or one for $5 picked by Americans, I bet most of them would pick the cheaper one. Though I have to say, I can’t blame the Republicans completely… the American public is at fault too. If you asked the average supermarket shopper to choose between a package of lettuce for $3 picked by illegal immigrants or one for $5 picked by Americans, I bet most of them would pick the cheaper one.

]]> By: Phydeau http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594323 Phydeau Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:18:20 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594323 #30 Faxon said "At least then, we would be getting something for the millions and millions of dollars the criminal border crossers cost us." My point is that they provide more value than they cost. If all the illegal Mexican (and other) immigrants went away, we'd have to pay much higher wages to Americans to do these shit jobs. And our produce, houses, roads, and everything else they work on would cost more. And spare me the outrage over cheating workers. We all know what the story is. Americans turn a blind eye to the plight of undocumented workers because they work for cheap. And we love cheap. We could solve the problem immediately: heavy fines for companies that hire illegals. But then they would be forced to hire Americans at American wages, and their costs and prices would immediately go way up. Americans are hypocrites on this issue. We should either accept hiring illegals at poverty wages and stop wringing our hands over it, or stop hiring them and accept the higher prices that come with American workers. And btw, Republicans <i>love</i> paying people below the minimum wage, so your pious concern is totally unconvincing, coming from a wingnut. It's us liberals who want to pay people a minimum wage. And if I had my druthers, I'd levy the big fines on the companies for hiring illegals, force them to hire Americans at reasonable wages. Republicans (and their owners, the big corporations) <i>hate</i> the idea of paying a reasonable wage. #30 Faxon said “At least then, we would be getting something for the millions and millions of dollars the criminal border crossers cost us.”

My point is that they provide more value than they cost. If all the illegal Mexican (and other) immigrants went away, we’d have to pay much higher wages to Americans to do these shit jobs. And our produce, houses, roads, and everything else they work on would cost more.

And spare me the outrage over cheating workers. We all know what the story is. Americans turn a blind eye to the plight of undocumented workers because they work for cheap. And we love cheap. We could solve the problem immediately: heavy fines for companies that hire illegals. But then they would be forced to hire Americans at American wages, and their costs and prices would immediately go way up.

Americans are hypocrites on this issue. We should either accept hiring illegals at poverty wages and stop wringing our hands over it, or stop hiring them and accept the higher prices that come with American workers.

And btw, Republicans love paying people below the minimum wage, so your pious concern is totally unconvincing, coming from a wingnut. It’s us liberals who want to pay people a minimum wage. And if I had my druthers, I’d levy the big fines on the companies for hiring illegals, force them to hire Americans at reasonable wages. Republicans (and their owners, the big corporations) hate the idea of paying a reasonable wage.

]]> By: Benjamin http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594312 Benjamin Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:42:36 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594312 #23 Phydeau "The ones who make it to America are the ones with the strongest work ethic. And they’re the ones picking your produce, mowing your lawns, busing your table, even building your houses, for less than minimum wage, so you can get all those things for cheaper. All while you complain about 'lazy' Mexicans." At no point did Flaxon call Mexicans lazy. He called them poor. If you think it is okay to cheat workers out of their fair wage because they are only illegal Mexicans, then I question your morals. You never met a government program you don't like, but you oppose any regulations on who can enter this country. There should be an orderly regulation regarding immigration instead of violating of the law in order to pay people below minimum wage. #23 Phydeau “The ones who make it to America are the ones with the strongest work ethic. And they’re the ones picking your produce, mowing your lawns, busing your table, even building your houses, for less than minimum wage, so you can get all those things for cheaper. All while you complain about ‘lazy’ Mexicans.”

At no point did Flaxon call Mexicans lazy. He called them poor. If you think it is okay to cheat workers out of their fair wage because they are only illegal Mexicans, then I question your morals. You never met a government program you don’t like, but you oppose any regulations on who can enter this country. There should be an orderly regulation regarding immigration instead of violating of the law in order to pay people below minimum wage.

]]> By: LibertyLover http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594303 LibertyLover Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:16:53 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594303 #28, Nope. Greenspan is. Nice job he did on the economy :-) #28, Nope. Greenspan is. Nice job he did on the economy :-)

]]> By: Phydeau http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594300 Phydeau Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:14:07 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594300 Still playing John Galt, I see. Well, everyone's gotta have a hobby. :) Still playing John Galt, I see. Well, everyone’s gotta have a hobby. :)

]]> By: LibertyLover http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594293 LibertyLover Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:05:52 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594293 #26, <i>Ya know, LL, I’d be a lot more impressed</i> No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't know freedom if it jumped up and bit you on the ass. No amount of proof will convince you. I'm talking those with open minds :-) #26, Ya know, LL, I’d be a lot more impressed

No, you wouldn’t. You wouldn’t know freedom if it jumped up and bit you on the ass. No amount of proof will convince you.

I’m talking those with open minds :-)

]]> By: Phydeau http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594268 Phydeau Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:58:03 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594268 Ya know, LL, I'd be a lot more impressed if you did a little research on how and why these regulatory agencies that you hate came into being. And then you could try to convince us of how much better life would be if they were all abolished, and automakers could make cars as unsafe as they wanted, food makers could cut corners on safety and sell us tainted food, drug makers could sell drugs without testing them completely, etc., etc. Libertarian paradise! :) Ya know, LL, I’d be a lot more impressed if you did a little research on how and why these regulatory agencies that you hate came into being. And then you could try to convince us of how much better life would be if they were all abolished, and automakers could make cars as unsafe as they wanted, food makers could cut corners on safety and sell us tainted food, drug makers could sell drugs without testing them completely, etc., etc. Libertarian paradise! :)

]]> By: LibertyLover http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/10/25/arizona-to-privatize-death-row/comment-page-2/#comment-1594222 LibertyLover Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:03:40 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=61068#comment-1594222 #23, This is what happens when you set price controls -- a black market is created. In this case, the price control is on the labor market and a black market in labor thus springs up. #23, This is what happens when you set price controls — a black market is created.

In this case, the price control is on the labor market and a black market in labor thus springs up.

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