Indeed, before that capitalist paradise, we had feudalism, monarchies and dictators. I’m sure you think that was much better.

People died in the streets, people starved to death, people couldn’t get decent health care.

Truly a free market paradise.

you are so angry. why do you have to be so angry. come back to the tin hovel. The village have promised not to laugh too much at how the wind makes that whistling sound when it blows through your head.

your cousin doodydo says hi. he wanted to write something but he had to go to some tea bag convention or something. they needed someone to make their signs and doodydoo was retarded enough to get the job.

your mother wants to know if that rash around your mouth has cleared up. She still has some of the medication the VD clinic gave her for the same thing.

pedro, be nice to people.

Waiting until you are attacked directly to “justify” a war is not always sufficient. Frankly, we should have gone to war against Hitler earlier. If the Japanese had not attacked, Germany would have controlled Europe by the time we got around to justifying our involvement.

Are we now counting the funding of rebels as a “war”? You later claim that Grenada and Panama aren’t wars (which I agree, but they were called into question. In order to answer how many wars were won, we’d have to define what we mean by “war”.) but want to count funding insurgency as a war? Seriously. It was Kennedy’s choice to invade, the conflict was his and he blew it.

RE: Persian Gulf War

Iraq still had the fourth largest army in the world, was defending their home turf and outnumbered collation forces at the outset of the ground war. Just because we won handily does not make it any less of a victory.

Both the Persian Gulf War and the recent war in Iraq are clearly victories. Just because we have troops there, does not mean the war isn’t over. We had troops in Europe and Japan for decades after World War II.

RE: Vietnam

I’ll even buy sharing the blame between Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon. To assign the loss to any one person is nonsense.

RE: Eisenhower’s campaign to get out of Korea

One of Eisenhower’s low points was his criticism of Marshall and the Korea engagement. As Truman aptly said during his campaign, Eisenhower had all the same information that Marshall and the military commanders had, if he had a better suggestion for winning in Korea, he should have said it earlier rather than waiting for the campaign trail.

Had the Chinese sent millions into Korea, the A-bomb would have neutralized their numbers and cut them off. We had air superiority, naval superiority, better weapons and the a-bomb. We could have cut them off from the peninsula and sued for peace.

Regardless, if we count major engagements, since the turn of the century, and to be kind, I’ll exclude Panama and Grenada (which involved 8800 and 14000 troops respectively, but ok) and count Vietnam as a 1/4 loss for all four President’s involved that gives us:

Republicans: W: 2 L: 0.25
Democrats: W: 0 L: 0.75

This excludes Cuba since it is arguably just a loss of a major skirmish rather than a war.

Oh, the irony.

via videosift.com

If any government can ever run any business with competitors successfully, then the looser should have been Ronald Reagan, the laughter should have been Mikhail Gorbachev,

And what “business” was Reagan in? Selling arms to Iran? Ignoring the law?

Your wing nut obsession here is truly blinding.

No war is ever justified in the end. But sometimes you do have to defend yourself and even your neighbor from aggression.

If you look at your two examples from the opposite side, Britain and Japan both had their reasons for doing what they did. (Don’t take that as I agree with them)

War is always a waste.

Should I list more?

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Those are “business” that only the US government has the legitimacy to run, i.e., there is no competitor domestically or internationally.

GM and Ford have long time taken all the motor vehicle contracts from the military and the police department (ah, those greasy, fatty and easy money.) Yet, since the auto manufactruing business must be facing the cruel competition from the other countries, GM was already belly-up and Ford is going to limp forever.

If any government can ever run any business with competitors successfully, then the looser should have been Ronald Reagan, the laughter should have been Mikhail Gorbachev, and the Berlin wall breaker should have been the east Germany people, not the other way.

No I didn’t mention war because there were only TWO of them we fought that were justified.

1812
WWII

All the rest were wasteful bloodshed just for control or muscle-flexing.

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Sorry but Ralph had it right.

Eisenhower did not lose Cuba; Kennedy lost Cuba. It was Kennedy’s choice to invade (and throw out Eisenhower’s plan).

You better go back to reading your history books. Cuba was taken by the rebels in 1959. That made Eisenhower the President. It was not until 1961 Kennedy took over. Castro was rebuffed by the Eisenhower Administration and so went to the USSR for assistance.

Persian Gulf War. Then of course there is Iraq, Panama, Grenada…

The greatest coalition of forces the world has ever seen against a country that just fought a bloody long war with Iran. And they still allowed the leader Rumsfeld and Cheney courted only a few years earlier to remain in power. Ten years later the chief reason for invading Iraq was to depose Hussein.

Oh yes, Panama, now that was a war! Several hundreds of Panamanians killed so the Americans could arrest their own CIA puppet.

Granada. Yup. They were invaded because Cuba was helping the island nation of less than 150,000 build an airport capable of handling large jets. We have more Marines than they have people and you call it a war?

Iraq? Is that different from the “Persian Gulf War” or are you seriously just being disingenuous. In case you didn’t notice, we are still in Iraq.

Arguably Nixon and Johnson (and Kennedy) should share in the loss of Vietnam.

The actual first Americans were sent in 1957, during Eisenhower’s Administration. It was still low keyed during Kennedy’s time. Johnson escalated the conflict but nothing like Nixon. The most number of troops, bombing, and casualties came during Nixon’s time. Attacks into Laos and Cambodia were during Nixon’s term.Even then, Nixon bailed and allowed the North to take over.

FYI, Eisenhower ran his first campaign on getting out of Korea. Truman and the Pentagon were correct NOT to continue too far into the North. The Chinese were prepared to send millions of soldiers south against the UN forces. This would also have induced the USSR to openly assist the North. Truman realized the potential for a long drawn out war with a country that had just exploded their own Hydrogen bomb.

Panama and Granada were wars, LOL.

As a musician I have had many…many jobs (non-music) I worked for the census in the year 2000. I was paid $25/ hr… never once knocked on a door and regularly went to the dwntwn headquarters and saw 30+ people being paid more doing nothing!!! and I was doing my required job, not cheating the requirements.

Sorry, but I call bullshit. If you were being paid $25/hr then you were NOT an enumerator. That you saw some people doing, in your opinion, nothing is meaningless.

Just making up anecdotal stories like this is the current trend of the right wing nuts. The sad part is the other right wing nuts now fully believe them.

Some other right wing nut lies.

President Reagan gave a speech advocating tort reform. One of his examples included a farmer who set a ladder in some manure while he climbed the ladder. The ladder fell and the farmer sued and won big. Only it never happened. The other examples used by Reagan were found to have serious problems.
http://tinyurl.com/yfc97go (pg 15)

A lady spills hot coffee on herself and won millions from McDonalds. Wrong. The coffee was super heated to 190F+ instead of the 135F temperature coffee is usually served at. She was a passenger, not the driver. The 80 yr/o woman suffered third degree burn to her legs, crotch, and buttocks. She spent eight days in the burn unit. When first approached, McDonalds refused to accept any responsibility and refused to pay the $20,000 for her medical bills.

Somehow when the right wing nuts tell the story though, it comes out a little different.