Dvorak Poll: Should Government Flags Be Flown At Half Staff ONLY For The Fort Hood Dead?

Published on November 6th, 2009

President Obama ordered flags be flown at half staff. Governors of many, if not all, states ordered the same.

Obviously what happened Thursday at Ft. Hood was a tragedy. Just as obviously, Sgt. Kimberly Munley who got shot while taking Hasan out is a hero. So are others who helped the wounded as the firing continued. So, flying the flag at half staff seems a reasonable tribute to the fallen and the heroes. But…

Why isn’t the flag flown at half mast for the soldiers killed or wounded daily in combat? Don’t they deserve the same tribute for their sacrifice? Aren’t their injuries and deaths just as tragic under their heroic circumstances? Or has the flow of coffins from overseas been too steady from unpopular wars for us to even bother with… them?

I do feel we should be honoring those who died, were wounded and took action under fire at Ft. Hood. I just wonder what it says that we don’t accord the same to the others.

43 users responded in " Dvorak Poll: Should Government Flags Be Flown At Half Staff ONLY For The Fort Hood Dead? "

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# 1 deowll said, on November 6th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

Somebody tries to do something right and you want to pick a fight. Going for the Mr. Nasty award?

There is a time and place for all things and this was neither the time nor place for that question.

Take care and God bless.

# 2 Miller said, on November 6th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

In AZ, the Gov. orders flags flown at half-mast for all Arizona soldiers that die overseas. I would presume the other states do the same.

# 3 Civengine said, on November 6th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

Every Missouri Soldier killed in combat is honored with a half mast flag statewide for a day and a week in their county. Sadly 3 Missourians fell in this past week.

# 4 Floyd said, on November 6th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

In New Mexico at least, fallen military (and fallen police) of that state are honored with half staff flags for a month. It’s a respectful practice that I’d recommend for other states. I believe the deaths of the Ft Hood are being respected the same way here in NM because of the nature of the attack.

I agree with deowll–this is not the time for a flame war.

# 5 amodedoma said, on November 6th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

Loaded question and in bad taste, like the effort of a blog troll to provoke a reaction. Presidents have many duties, one of them is to channel public remorse when many die unjustly and to reassure that the danger has passed. On the other hand US military SOP for the press has changed so much that reports from the front seem like recruiting commercials. I miss the Vietnam war, there you saw young people dying on the front page of LIFE or news at 11. Now there’s none of that, not because no one’s dying, it’s because they know if it becomes too present in the public’s consciousness opposition will grow. I think the Americans need to see the hell they’re creating close up, it’s a moral responsibility.

# 6 fuelrod said, on November 6th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

We do honor our soldiers killed and wounded in combat. Its call Memorial Day. Quit trying to use their deaths to justify how you feel about the war, it’s disgusting.

# 7 Jägermeister said, on November 6th, 2009 at 7:34 pm

I’m with deowll on this one. Well, except for the “God bless” thing…

# 8 Uncledavesucks said, on November 6th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

#6 You said it. Memorial Day is the day set for remembering those who gave their lives for the values and freedom of this nation. For those that forgot, it’s not another day to get 20% off at your local department store.

# 9 gal416 said, on November 6th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

I thought about a comment for this but since I did not serve in the military I don’t feel I have the right I to except to say that I pray that the Lord watches over our men and women in uniform, that He protects them as they protect us and that He brings them back safely home to their families whether they are stationed here or abroad. Amen

# 10 MikeN said, on November 6th, 2009 at 7:56 pm

Liberals’ view of the military was summed up by one protester: We support the troops when they shoot their officers.

# 11 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 6th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

Ceremony.

All Silly.

# 12 cfk said, on November 6th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

This seemed unnecessarily crass given the events at Fort Hood this week. If you’re attempting to draw a parallel between senseless military deaths both at home and abroad, try using a fine nib pen rather than a paint roller.

# 13 Jägermeister said, on November 6th, 2009 at 8:22 pm

#9 – MikeN

Republicans can be summed up with one President.

# 14 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 6th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

Hey!!!!!—This reminds me of the “no comments” action John used on the Post when Kennedy Died.

I guess the mourning period for that is over and we can now comment on him??????

Good and bad like everyone else. I don’t like Hero Worship — ESPECIALLY politicians. As I don’t hero worship, I’d have to know more about his positions on various crime and punishment issues before I would actually judge him on the political summation scale of: hypocrisy given his driving skills.

Maybe we should make the flag poles twice as High, and fly the flag at half staff all the time?

# 15 brm said, on November 6th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

We can’t fly the flag at half staff nationally during a war.

The flag would be at half staff for the entire war, which is ridiculous, and bad for morale.

# 16 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 6th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

Hey!!!!!—This reminds me of the “no comments” action John used on the Post when Ghandi Died.

I guess the mourning period for that is over and we can now comment on him??????

Good and bad like everyone else. I don’t like Hero Worship — ESPECIALLY politicians. As I don’t hero worship, I’d have to know more about his positions on various civil rights issues. Sure he wanted rights for Indians, but what about women, gays, and fat people?

Maybe we should make the flag poles twice as High, and fly the flag at half staff all the time?

# 17 Glenn E. said, on November 6th, 2009 at 9:33 pm

It’s all a part of what I’d call War Theater, or less accurately as War Culture. We honor the deaths of civilian law enforcement and firefighters, with a lowering of the State’s flag, when death has occurred. We apparently also do this for soldiers killed, not on active duty, in some war, cut down by an act of terrorism or revenge. As is recently evident. Before 9-11, this was pretty much unheard of. I suspect that if it began happening often enough (God forbid), this practice would be reduced to a specific day. Like Memorial Day for fallen soldiers of all wars. Oh yeah, and of course we have those annual observances when the flag is supposed to be at half mast, from dawn till noon. But the vast majority of Americans don’t even know this, and put the flag all the way up, or not at all. I’ll bet many a primary school caretaker doesn’t know or care. And flies the flag the same way, every week day. We hear more about setting our bloomin clocks ahead or back one hour, from out local news stations, than anything about flying the flag at half mast. And then of course there is the disgusting commercial exploitation of these so-called “holidays”. How many times have we all heard the words “Memorial Day Sale”? How would certain marketers feel if someone came along with say a Hanukah week or Yom Kippur day sale? I’m guessing they wouldn’t approve. But apparently everything else, not of their faith, is fair game. And what’s worse is the military doesn’t say a word about it. So exploit away. Have all the sales you want. And broadcast on the airwaves, “Happy Memorial Day!”.

My point is that there are a lot of things that don’t make sense about these days and reasons for lowering the flags, and not lowering them. And it mostly boils down to “War Theater”. It’s done to put a positive face on the loss of human life. But it’s not strictly observed to the point of being an inconvenience to the economy. And since businesses often need an excuse to advertise a sale. These “days” aren’t forbidden for such use. I say that they should get their own holidays to mess with. And BTW, how come there’s no “Last Day of WW2 Sale” or “Last Day of Korean War Sale”, yet? Wouldn’t you think these would be days to celebrate? And hasn’t enough time passed, to exploit them too, if not? What’s so sacred about the end of these wars? Usually, they were just a day of signing treaties. Not any last hour battles. Again, more War Theater, there.

# 18 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 6th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

Hey!!!!!—This reminds me of the “no comments” action John used on the Post when Jebus Died.

I guess the mourning period for that is over and we can now comment on him??????

Good and bad like everyone else. I don’t like Hero Worship — ESPECIALLY politicians. As I don’t hero worship, I’d have to know more about his positions on various religious issues. Sure he wanted rights for Jews but what about Zoroasters and the Cult of Dionysus, or even a-t-h-e-i-s-t-s? Was Jebus in conflict with his Father, or merely a severely split schizophrenic with his various personalities?

Maybe we should make the flag poles twice as High, and fly the flag at half staff all the time?

# 19 Special Ed said, on November 6th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

I recall when half staff at the post office meant they were hiring.

# 20 Glenn E. said, on November 6th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

What bugs be the most about the news coverage of this tragic event, is how the Tv stations of various states exploit the news that someone for their state was involved in the shootings. As if saying the viewing audience, “This could have been you (or a relative of yours), so pay attention.” Yeah, they’re always looking for that “hook”. Especially went it involves a military base, or a large university. Because it’s more than likely that nearly every state has someone there. But isn’t this just exploiting our clannish mindset for Tv ratings? “Of all the dead, your State suffered this loss”, would be the generic news expression. But I’ll bet these news copywriters didn’t bother contacting the next of kin, and asking if it was alright to mention their dead relation, on Tv. We’ve all become cannon fodder for the news media, and War Theater. Where the audience must also participate as well as the players. Or you’re not very patriotic, if you don’t.

# 21 Glenn E. said, on November 6th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

#18 Hey Bobbo, good point about making the flag poles taller. At least 50% taller. Ours is only about 20′ tall, and it looks odd for the flag to be barely a few feet above the bushes. So I usually fly it 2/3 mast, rather than half way.

#19 Interesting bit of trivia Special Ed. It calls to mind someone I knew who made a political statement by affixing the flag postage stamp upside-down, on their letters. Doing so to the real flag, was once the sign of a disaster (at sea or on land?). I’m not sure, but that might be illegal to do that with stamps, now.

# 22 Animby said, on November 7th, 2009 at 3:06 am

#18 Glenn E. – Here’s some more trivia for you: the flag is lowered to show the presence of death but it was not supposed to be half way. Just one flag’s height lower. This was supposed to make room for an invisible flag, denoting death, to fly above it. So, by flying at 2/3 mast, you’re probably being traditionally more accurate.

# 23 stormadvisor said, on November 7th, 2009 at 3:41 am

I stand corrected. Here is an excerpt from USC title 4 chapter 1 section 7m

“In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, or the death of a member of the Armed Forces from any State, territory, or possession who dies while serving on active duty, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff, and the same authority is provided to the Mayor of the District of Columbia with respect to present or former officials of the District of Columbia and members of the Armed Forces from the District of Columbia.”

# 24 USA said, on November 7th, 2009 at 3:58 am

Who is the idiot that wrote this story. Soldiers purposefully go into combat knowing full well they could get killed. No one expects a massacre to occur when on base amongst comrades, so it is an entirely different scenario. Get a fulkin clue.

I can’t answer your poll, I can’t say no to ONLY flying the flags half staff there as that would be saying no to flying the flags half staff everywhere else. I can’t say yes either. I can say yes to flying it there and other places where such horrors occur in a place where it is not declared a WAR. Your poll is equally as worthless as your comment.

Also, the guy was a TERRORIST. The Dr. Phil’s of the world as seen immediately for attention on CNN are idiots with their “something drove him to do this” crap, blaming public policy for a religious extremists insanity. It had nothing to do with anything else, he MURDERED people and it was premeditated and done in the name of his god. There were warning signs basically tattooed on his forehead!

And once again, the only news network to bring these facts out minus the quest for drama was FOX.

# 25 Cursor_ said, on November 7th, 2009 at 4:29 am

Honestly I could care less if they flew a flag at all.

Let people fly their fabric anyway they please.

I haven’t given a fig about that silly ancient rite since the 70s. But if people wants to hang onto tradition for tradition’s sake, go for it.

Flying flags, salutes, displays of nationalism all of it means nothing when we live in a nation that has no representation for all citizens.

Cursor_

# 26 amodedoma said, on November 7th, 2009 at 5:33 am

- BOBBO – we know, we know, we konw

You sound like a broken record. No heroes, no god, no ideals, no miracles, no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, no tooth-fairy, no beliefs whatsoever.
I really think it would be useful for you to reflect on why these things in particular should get such a rise out of you.

# 27 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 7th, 2009 at 5:44 am

#26–amodedoma==you say:

- BOBBO – we know, we know, we konw /// From what you post, clearly: not.

You sound like a broken record. /// Don’t we all?

No heroes, // Very few and certainly not the one’s pushed on us by Main Stream Media and the government. Most heroes go unknown. Stooges get the press. Most of them are actually victims and quite as innocent as the rest of us.

no god, no miracles, no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, no tooth-fairy,/// THATS true. None at all.

no ideals, no beliefs whatsoever. /// Ideals–science, truth, liberty, charity===and many more. Beliefs–we are caretakers for the next generation===and many more.

I really think it would be useful for you to reflect on why these things in particular should get such a rise out of you. /// “Things” is fatally vague but I given the barest “start” of an outline.

I just got up, feeling feisty. I hope you and anyone else with a hankering feel like taking your best shot. I know you are just being lazy and left handed so far.

“The future is so bright, I gotta wear shades!===Now who stole my sun glasses????”

# 28 Mr. Fusion said, on November 7th, 2009 at 6:00 am

#26, Amodedoma,

And it also seems like Bobbo doesn’t believe in things that are fairy tales, hoaxes, myths, fables, lies, or coming from FOX. I consider that an intelligent view.

Of course if those things are your thing, then all the power to you. Just remember how having “faith” in Santa as an adult reflects on you.

BTW, heroes are real. Heroes like Alan Shepard, John Glenn, Christopher Columbus, the Wright Brothers, Robert Goddard, Sir Stanford Fleming, Jonas Salk, Elizabeth Stanton, the civilian side of Teddy Roosevelt, Franklyn Roosevelt, Susan B. Anthony, Louise Pasteur, Henry Hudson, … .

No, I didn’t forget the biggest heroes of them all. My mother and father. And they won’t need a flag at half mast to be honored.

# 29 Robbie R. said, on November 7th, 2009 at 6:14 am

President “Shout Out” is just using the flag to cover his embarrassed butt.

# 30 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 7th, 2009 at 6:14 am

#28–Fusion==good morning and thank you for recognizing my consistency. Some would think me a hero for that, especially if they agreed with me????

Its been a while since we have found something to argue about. It appears we have one today. I see a “hero” as someone doing something from which he doesn’t personally benefit for the good of other people when he is in a position not to.

That lets off most soldiers/cops/firemen etc. What would any sane person do if someone is shooting at them other than shoot back??? My favorite is call the 911 Firemen who “ran into the burning buildings to save them.” No, not really. They are paid to do that job and as the Chief said on tv the next day: “If we knew the building was going to come down, we would not have gone in.” And that is the way of the world.

Same with Shepard and Glenn. Any pilot and most other folks for the pure self gratifying pleasure and challenge would be an astronaut. Nothing at all heroic.

Columbus did it 3-4 time to enslave indigenous people for the sole purpose of getting rich. Also not a hero–worse, a true villain.

Wright Bros and the scientist? Like the astronauts, the pure pleasure of pursuing what they loved. They all would have done it for free, for the satisfaction, for the knowledge.

TR might be a hero the way he busted the trusts up. Hard to say that about any politician. I’d need to know more than I do.

Susan B Anthony–she is second highest on your list. Yes, took on a life long struggle for the betterment of women/men/and herself. Dedicated to a cause you personally benefit from==well, who can really complain about suffrage???

You win with Mom and Dad. My Dad was the most remote of people. Life ruined by the Great Depression, he never recovered. Best we can say about him is: “He could have been worse.”

but without my Mom, I would be in jail typing this. I think most mothers, if they “try” really are heroes indeed. Their love should compromise/offset some of the sacrifice but the dedication shines thru.

So, we disagree on 99% but agree on the most important of all. Here’s wishing all fathers could emulate their wives just a little bit more than we do.

# 31 Mr. Fusion said, on November 7th, 2009 at 6:28 am

#27, Bobbo,

“The future is so bright, I gotta wear shades!===Now who stole my sun glasses????”

Don’t think I’ve seen ‘em. What do they look like?

# 32 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 7th, 2009 at 6:33 am

#31–Fusion==of course, they are “Aviation” Glasses, automatic tint shading, with the clipon Nuclear Blast Shield. I wear them to all dental exams.

# 33 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 7th, 2009 at 6:36 am

Actually, in training my instructor told me “good pilots don’t wear glasses, we squint. What happens if you are in a dog fight and your glasses fall off?”

So I squinted for a few years until I got transports. I figured if I lost my glasses on the shitter, I can tell the loadmaster to look around for them.

# 34 Mr. Fusion said, on November 7th, 2009 at 6:50 am

#30, Bobbo,

You make a good point about “heroes” are such for simply doing their job. I don’t argue there. Please don’t attach any importance to the order in my list. I missed so many other important heroes like Marconi, ML King, and Ghandi.

But what about when they go beyond their job, such as volunteering to sit on top of tens of thousands of pounds of extremely explosive propellant while someone lights it on fire? And you don’t even have a mini fire extinguisher or emergency exit in your “capsule”.

Or going to bat for the “people” instead of the corporate robber barons. Especially when it would have been so easy to enrich yourself in the process.

Or sharing your discoveries with the world so so many lives can be saved. Did you know Fleming never patented penicillin?

Heroes are those who were killed during the Civil Rights era or fed to the dogs during marches.

Heroes are those who were jailed for wanting peace during a war.

# 35 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 7th, 2009 at 6:56 am

Mr Fusion–step up your game. I told you why astronauts/scientists are not heroes. Re read my post and if the salient point escapes you again, repost, and I will restate and amplify.

Likewise, you continue with me in identifying untold thousands of unknown people who worked for equal rights in the 50-60’s, Mississippi Burning and all. “Most Hereo’s go Unknown.”

Most heroes today are foisted on the slobbering masses as infotainment and divertisement.

# 36 Bill Skoros said, on November 7th, 2009 at 7:17 am

I work for a school in New York. Anytime a solder from NY is killed, all NY schools lower the flag to half-staff. I thought that is how it was accross the country…

# 37 Mr. Fusion said, on November 7th, 2009 at 7:39 am

Bobbo,

Most heroes today are foisted on the slobbering masses as infotainment and divertisement.

Yes but no.

Yes they are given to us, like it or not. Foisted as you suggest. We accept them because we search for heroes. Throughout history we have searched for our heroes. Deep inside (I assume) we crave heroes.

Hercules and Thor. Francis Drake tweaking Spain’s nose. Robinson Crusoe surviving loneliness with his British ingenuity. Wild Bill Hickock, Wyatt Earp, and Pat Garrison rounded up the bad guys. Kit Carson and Alexander MacKenzie survived the wilderness, grizzly bears, and Indians. And the smartest man to ever live, Sherlock Holmes. And all were heroes in literature and lore.

As kids we bought Superman comic books. He never failed to do what was right.

We watched Rambo overcome great odds to survive. We were proud of a simple police officer who wouldn’t Die Hard. We followed a band of Hobbits, Men, Dwarfs, Elves, Goblins, Orcs and Wizards until evil was destroyed.

We insert ourselves into the role of hero in computer games.

We want our heroes.
*

Contrary to what many posters might believe, police are NOT required to get shot on the job. They are actively encouraged NOT to get shot as that takes them out of the picture.

Firemen are trained to leave buildings about to collapse. Dead firemen can’t man the hoses.

Soldiers are trained to reduce the potential of harm as much as possible. Injured soldiers on the battlefield is a liability.

Disobeying orders makes for dead fools more than it does heroes. (I can just picture doill responding about thinking “outside the box” on this point)

Actually I think we are closer in agreement than you give us credit for. But hey, my wife claims I’m noted for my looks, not my brains. (or was it my brains, not my looks???)

# 38 David said, on November 7th, 2009 at 7:46 am

I completely agree with Dvorak. If you think the flag should be flown at half mast when a soldier is shot by a disturbed individual, but not when a soldier dies in combat, explain how that does not demean their service to their country.

# 39 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 7th, 2009 at 7:52 am

Fusion–no, I don’t think we are close as you keep going back to restate, but not reargue, your point summarizing the above that “we” need heroes. Who is this “we” you speak of???

You sound like ammarammadingdong now, desperately wanting to believe in imaginary fictions. At least YOU are closer in starting with actual human beings, but you must see how quickly you depart into fantasy, misdirection, and different subjects all together.

Along the lines of literary criticism, you are demonstrably confusing “the hero” with “the anti-hero.” Rambo may get our juices flowing, but he is no hero. He is a hunted rat. He fights solely for his own values, kills innocent people for his own inability to “fit in.” Could have used his skills to evade and escape, used them to confront and kill instead. No Hero.

Die Hard==another trapped rat. More heroic than Rambo but still a trapped rat. What you gonna do when people are shooting at you??????

Last “Hero” I saw was Clint Eastwood in “Absolute Power.” Too Hollywood when he went to see his daughter, but otherwise he put himself at risk in order to do the right thing. Same with Tom Berringer in one of the Sniper flicks.

The fact that we don’t care about our disagreement doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You are more “traditionally” patriotic than I am. Thats “ok” as you don’t push it on other people.

Just because you admire someone doesn’t make them a hero. And that makes me wonder: can I name a “hero” that I don’t admire?????? I’m thinking. I’ll post back if someone turns up.

# 40 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 7th, 2009 at 7:55 am

#38–David==its an issue of human psychology. Flags are flown at half staff in order to “draw attention” to a subject. You can’t draw attention to a subject 365 days a year.

Demeaning something requires positive action to do so==not an inference from no action at all.

Stop salivating.

# 41 gal416 said, on November 7th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

Stupid question.

# 42 Mr. Fusion said, on November 8th, 2009 at 8:16 am

#39, Bobbo,

Who is this “we” you speak of???

304,999,999 Americans. I guess you disagree with the rest.

At least YOU are closer in starting with actual human beings, but you must see how quickly you depart into fantasy, misdirection, and different subjects all together.

Three of the first four I suggested in #37 are fictional characters. The next five were so romanticized in the pulp, dime novels of the late 1800s fact and fiction are one. And Sherlock Holmes is probably the most famous fictional character after Jesus H. Christ.

Wanting heroes and wanting our heroes to succeed has been with us since man first started telling stories around the campfire.

1. a man distinguished by exceptional courage, nobility, fortitude, etc.
2. a man who is idealized for possessing superior qualities in any field
3. (Myth & Legend / Classical Myth & Legend) Classical myth a being of extraordinary strength and courage, often the offspring of a mortal and a god, who is celebrated for his exploits
4. the principal male character in a novel, play, etc.

The American Heritage Dictionary

It appears your mileage differs.

# 43 bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on November 8th, 2009 at 10:28 am

#42–Fusion==so in both of our approaches/concepts/proferred definitions, the soldiers killed at Ft Hood were not hereos.

How about the firefighters of 911? I say they are closer to victims or employees than hereos. You?

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