How about the firefighters of 911? I say they are closer to victims or employees than hereos. You?

Who is this “we” you speak of???

304,999,999 Americans. I guess you disagree with the rest.

At least YOU are closer in starting with actual human beings, but you must see how quickly you depart into fantasy, misdirection, and different subjects all together.

Three of the first four I suggested in #37 are fictional characters. The next five were so romanticized in the pulp, dime novels of the late 1800s fact and fiction are one. And Sherlock Holmes is probably the most famous fictional character after Jesus H. Christ.

Wanting heroes and wanting our heroes to succeed has been with us since man first started telling stories around the campfire.

1. a man distinguished by exceptional courage, nobility, fortitude, etc.
2. a man who is idealized for possessing superior qualities in any field
3. (Myth & Legend / Classical Myth & Legend) Classical myth a being of extraordinary strength and courage, often the offspring of a mortal and a god, who is celebrated for his exploits
4. the principal male character in a novel, play, etc.

The American Heritage Dictionary

It appears your mileage differs.

Demeaning something requires positive action to do so==not an inference from no action at all.

Stop salivating.

You sound like ammarammadingdong now, desperately wanting to believe in imaginary fictions. At least YOU are closer in starting with actual human beings, but you must see how quickly you depart into fantasy, misdirection, and different subjects all together.

Along the lines of literary criticism, you are demonstrably confusing “the hero” with “the anti-hero.” Rambo may get our juices flowing, but he is no hero. He is a hunted rat. He fights solely for his own values, kills innocent people for his own inability to “fit in.” Could have used his skills to evade and escape, used them to confront and kill instead. No Hero.

Die Hard==another trapped rat. More heroic than Rambo but still a trapped rat. What you gonna do when people are shooting at you??????

Last “Hero” I saw was Clint Eastwood in “Absolute Power.” Too Hollywood when he went to see his daughter, but otherwise he put himself at risk in order to do the right thing. Same with Tom Berringer in one of the Sniper flicks.

The fact that we don’t care about our disagreement doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You are more “traditionally” patriotic than I am. Thats “ok” as you don’t push it on other people.

Just because you admire someone doesn’t make them a hero. And that makes me wonder: can I name a “hero” that I don’t admire?????? I’m thinking. I’ll post back if someone turns up.

Most heroes today are foisted on the slobbering masses as infotainment and divertisement.

Yes but no.

Yes they are given to us, like it or not. Foisted as you suggest. We accept them because we search for heroes. Throughout history we have searched for our heroes. Deep inside (I assume) we crave heroes.

Hercules and Thor. Francis Drake tweaking Spain’s nose. Robinson Crusoe surviving loneliness with his British ingenuity. Wild Bill Hickock, Wyatt Earp, and Pat Garrison rounded up the bad guys. Kit Carson and Alexander MacKenzie survived the wilderness, grizzly bears, and Indians. And the smartest man to ever live, Sherlock Holmes. And all were heroes in literature and lore.

As kids we bought Superman comic books. He never failed to do what was right.

We watched Rambo overcome great odds to survive. We were proud of a simple police officer who wouldn’t Die Hard. We followed a band of Hobbits, Men, Dwarfs, Elves, Goblins, Orcs and Wizards until evil was destroyed.

We insert ourselves into the role of hero in computer games.

We want our heroes.
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Contrary to what many posters might believe, police are NOT required to get shot on the job. They are actively encouraged NOT to get shot as that takes them out of the picture.

Firemen are trained to leave buildings about to collapse. Dead firemen can’t man the hoses.

Soldiers are trained to reduce the potential of harm as much as possible. Injured soldiers on the battlefield is a liability.

Disobeying orders makes for dead fools more than it does heroes. (I can just picture doill responding about thinking “outside the box” on this point)

Actually I think we are closer in agreement than you give us credit for. But hey, my wife claims I’m noted for my looks, not my brains. (or was it my brains, not my looks???)

Likewise, you continue with me in identifying untold thousands of unknown people who worked for equal rights in the 50-60′s, Mississippi Burning and all. “Most Hereo’s go Unknown.”

Most heroes today are foisted on the slobbering masses as infotainment and divertisement.

You make a good point about “heroes” are such for simply doing their job. I don’t argue there. Please don’t attach any importance to the order in my list. I missed so many other important heroes like Marconi, ML King, and Ghandi.

But what about when they go beyond their job, such as volunteering to sit on top of tens of thousands of pounds of extremely explosive propellant while someone lights it on fire? And you don’t even have a mini fire extinguisher or emergency exit in your “capsule”.

Or going to bat for the “people” instead of the corporate robber barons. Especially when it would have been so easy to enrich yourself in the process.

Or sharing your discoveries with the world so so many lives can be saved. Did you know Fleming never patented penicillin?

Heroes are those who were killed during the Civil Rights era or fed to the dogs during marches.

Heroes are those who were jailed for wanting peace during a war.

So I squinted for a few years until I got transports. I figured if I lost my glasses on the shitter, I can tell the loadmaster to look around for them.

“The future is so bright, I gotta wear shades!===Now who stole my sun glasses????”

Don’t think I’ve seen ‘em. What do they look like?

Its been a while since we have found something to argue about. It appears we have one today. I see a “hero” as someone doing something from which he doesn’t personally benefit for the good of other people when he is in a position not to.

That lets off most soldiers/cops/firemen etc. What would any sane person do if someone is shooting at them other than shoot back??? My favorite is call the 911 Firemen who “ran into the burning buildings to save them.” No, not really. They are paid to do that job and as the Chief said on tv the next day: “If we knew the building was going to come down, we would not have gone in.” And that is the way of the world.

Same with Shepard and Glenn. Any pilot and most other folks for the pure self gratifying pleasure and challenge would be an astronaut. Nothing at all heroic.

Columbus did it 3-4 time to enslave indigenous people for the sole purpose of getting rich. Also not a hero–worse, a true villain.

Wright Bros and the scientist? Like the astronauts, the pure pleasure of pursuing what they loved. They all would have done it for free, for the satisfaction, for the knowledge.

TR might be a hero the way he busted the trusts up. Hard to say that about any politician. I’d need to know more than I do.

Susan B Anthony–she is second highest on your list. Yes, took on a life long struggle for the betterment of women/men/and herself. Dedicated to a cause you personally benefit from==well, who can really complain about suffrage???

You win with Mom and Dad. My Dad was the most remote of people. Life ruined by the Great Depression, he never recovered. Best we can say about him is: “He could have been worse.”

but without my Mom, I would be in jail typing this. I think most mothers, if they “try” really are heroes indeed. Their love should compromise/offset some of the sacrifice but the dedication shines thru.

So, we disagree on 99% but agree on the most important of all. Here’s wishing all fathers could emulate their wives just a little bit more than we do.