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	<title>Comments on: Choose NOT to Pay for Health Insurance, Go to Jail</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: gene willis</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-3/#comment-1647472</link>
		<dc:creator>gene willis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1647472</guid>
		<description>thats right,if someone cant afford the pelosi health care insurance send the mother and father to jail and to hell with the kids of that family!that will teach those free loaders!poor mexicans coming over the boarder,they dont have to pay for this.isnt it nice that the american family wil go to jail in there place,what a demacracy we have here!sick.new world order now in effect!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thats right,if someone cant afford the pelosi health care insurance send the mother and father to jail and to hell with the kids of that family!that will teach those free loaders!poor mexicans coming over the boarder,they dont have to pay for this.isnt it nice that the american family wil go to jail in there place,what a demacracy we have here!sick.new world order now in effect!</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1599134</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1599134</guid>
		<description>#31
RTFA indeed. To wit:&quot;failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail.&quot;

The way the law is written, yes you will be required to have health insurance whether you have a job or not, whether you chose to or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#31<br />
RTFA indeed. To wit:&#8221;failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail.&#8221;</p>
<p>The way the law is written, yes you will be required to have health insurance whether you have a job or not, whether you chose to or not.</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyLover</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1599099</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1599099</guid>
		<description>#38, All but one is on a family plan.  The company pays half of all insurance.

Natal plans are covered (one of my engineers just had a kid this last summer)
Dental is covered.
Eyeglasses are covered.
We&#039;ve had surgery under the plan, no one has been dropped.

Are you sure you haven&#039;t been listening to the propaganda and just THINK it&#039;s as bad as they say it is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#38, All but one is on a family plan.  The company pays half of all insurance.</p>
<p>Natal plans are covered (one of my engineers just had a kid this last summer)<br />
Dental is covered.<br />
Eyeglasses are covered.<br />
We&#8217;ve had surgery under the plan, no one has been dropped.</p>
<p>Are you sure you haven&#8217;t been listening to the propaganda and just THINK it&#8217;s as bad as they say it is?</p>
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		<title>By: Postman</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1599060</link>
		<dc:creator>Postman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1599060</guid>
		<description>#37

you can get catastrophic coverage with a 1000 deductable for less than 150 per employee per month.  But it doesn&#039;t cover basic things like natal care, and you are paying retail for z-packs when you need em.  Also you are probably getting dropped from the insurance if you ever make a claim.

Also he didn&#039;t articulate how many famlies he has on his plan.  Minimal family plans are 15,000 to 24,000 per year.

In fact your post is so cluless, I don&#039;t think you really have the first clue what you are talking about.  Do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#37</p>
<p>you can get catastrophic coverage with a 1000 deductable for less than 150 per employee per month.  But it doesn&#8217;t cover basic things like natal care, and you are paying retail for z-packs when you need em.  Also you are probably getting dropped from the insurance if you ever make a claim.</p>
<p>Also he didn&#8217;t articulate how many famlies he has on his plan.  Minimal family plans are 15,000 to 24,000 per year.</p>
<p>In fact your post is so cluless, I don&#8217;t think you really have the first clue what you are talking about.  Do you?</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyLover</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1599043</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1599043</guid>
		<description>#33, I don’t recall you having fulfilled the requirements to allow you to talk to me yet.

Have I missed it somewhere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#33, I don’t recall you having fulfilled the requirements to allow you to talk to me yet.</p>
<p>Have I missed it somewhere?</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyLover</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1599042</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1599042</guid>
		<description>#34, &lt;i&gt;I am a small business owner, I have 7 employees and I provide health insurance, it currently costs us 90k&lt;/i&gt;

Not a very good one if it costs you that much.  I have more than that and it costs less than half for mine.

You need to shop around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#34, <i>I am a small business owner, I have 7 employees and I provide health insurance, it currently costs us 90k</i></p>
<p>Not a very good one if it costs you that much.  I have more than that and it costs less than half for mine.</p>
<p>You need to shop around.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1599014</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1599014</guid>
		<description>Correction in #33,

&lt;i&gt;The business could be &lt;/i&gt;&lt;b&gt;seized &lt;/b&gt;&lt;i&gt;by the government if&lt;/i&gt;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction in #33,</p>
<p><i>The business could be </i><b>seized </b><i>by the government if</i>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: TJ</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1599010</link>
		<dc:creator>TJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1599010</guid>
		<description>#32 LibertyLover
I&#039;m not justifying anything. You will not be forced to buy insurance, because you won&#039;t have insurance if opt out and pay the tax. 

For someone who makes 60K the additional tax would be about $1,500 dollars a year. Not a small amount of money but considerably less than an insurance policy which would cost from 3K to 10K for the same individual.

Some small businesses are exempt, but even if they weren&#039;t, it would be no different than it is today with social security and medicare etc. If you choose not to pay your taxes you can lose your business and face jail time. Most of the time you only have to pay what you owe plus fines.

I am concerned about insurance prices going up, but mostly because of the damage done by lobyists to the public option. 

One of the biggest reasons insurance is so expensive is because the insured are paying for the uninsured. Hospitals pass these cost of treating uninsured patients to insured ones. The idea is that if everyone is insured the average cost of medical treatment will decrease. 

I am a small business owner, I have 7 employees and I provide health insurance, it currently costs us 90k a year to cover our employees. I provide insurance because I believe that healthy employees are productive ones.  People who can&#039;t afford preventative medicine or take care of their families  health concerns cannot work effectively. People who are in-firmed cannot work, if they are bankrupted from medical treatment costs they can&#039;t buy products, which is what or economy is based on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#32 LibertyLover<br />
I&#8217;m not justifying anything. You will not be forced to buy insurance, because you won&#8217;t have insurance if opt out and pay the tax. </p>
<p>For someone who makes 60K the additional tax would be about $1,500 dollars a year. Not a small amount of money but considerably less than an insurance policy which would cost from 3K to 10K for the same individual.</p>
<p>Some small businesses are exempt, but even if they weren&#8217;t, it would be no different than it is today with social security and medicare etc. If you choose not to pay your taxes you can lose your business and face jail time. Most of the time you only have to pay what you owe plus fines.</p>
<p>I am concerned about insurance prices going up, but mostly because of the damage done by lobyists to the public option. </p>
<p>One of the biggest reasons insurance is so expensive is because the insured are paying for the uninsured. Hospitals pass these cost of treating uninsured patients to insured ones. The idea is that if everyone is insured the average cost of medical treatment will decrease. </p>
<p>I am a small business owner, I have 7 employees and I provide health insurance, it currently costs us 90k a year to cover our employees. I provide insurance because I believe that healthy employees are productive ones.  People who can&#8217;t afford preventative medicine or take care of their families  health concerns cannot work effectively. People who are in-firmed cannot work, if they are bankrupted from medical treatment costs they can&#8217;t buy products, which is what or economy is based on.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1599008</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1599008</guid>
		<description>#32, Loser,

&lt;i&gt;What if a small business owner decided he wasn’t going to provide insurance for his people anymore nor pay the insurance fee to the government?&lt;/i&gt;

They would send a letter informing him his taxes were overdue.

&lt;i&gt;Would the government come in, shut down his business by putting him in jail, and put all his people out of work?&lt;/i&gt;

Who knows. That is a Justice Department decision. The business could be ceased by the government if the owner still refused to pay the taxes. If the owner still refused to pay his taxes he could be fined and or JAILED. 

Would the government put the people out of work? No. The tax evader would be the one doing that. The business would most likely be sold for unpaid taxes and since a going concern is worth more, the Government would most likely appoint an interim administrator.

Blaming the government for the owner&#039;s crimes is foolish. Typical greedy, selfish, inconsiderate tactics of Liebertarians though. Blame others for their refusal to pay their share of the public obligation.

&lt;i&gt;Would they and their families then be able to get “free” health care from the government because they no longer had jobs?&lt;/i&gt;

Unemployed generally qualify for Medicaid.

&lt;i&gt;You people have no clue what you are doing here.&lt;/i&gt;

No, once again you demonstrate your ignorance. We the people want health care reform. 

&lt;i&gt;I will not take a cut in profits to compensate — I’m going to raise my rates which then get passed on to you.&lt;/i&gt;

None of the current health care bills apply to Sim City or any other Fantasy World. In the real world, posers don&#039;t count.

&lt;i&gt;If the Senate passes this shit, it will be the end of the US economy. There is no way to avoid it.&lt;/i&gt;

The exact same complaint heard when Social Security, all of Roosevelt&#039;s aid packages, Medicare, Nixon&#039;s resignation, and the invasion of Iraq happened. We are still here.

You give yourself away as a poser simply because you are always saying it can&#039;t be done instead of suggesting how it can be done. The difference between running your own business and still living off of your mother. Working for a living and being a dreamer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#32, Loser,</p>
<p><i>What if a small business owner decided he wasn’t going to provide insurance for his people anymore nor pay the insurance fee to the government?</i></p>
<p>They would send a letter informing him his taxes were overdue.</p>
<p><i>Would the government come in, shut down his business by putting him in jail, and put all his people out of work?</i></p>
<p>Who knows. That is a Justice Department decision. The business could be ceased by the government if the owner still refused to pay the taxes. If the owner still refused to pay his taxes he could be fined and or JAILED. </p>
<p>Would the government put the people out of work? No. The tax evader would be the one doing that. The business would most likely be sold for unpaid taxes and since a going concern is worth more, the Government would most likely appoint an interim administrator.</p>
<p>Blaming the government for the owner&#8217;s crimes is foolish. Typical greedy, selfish, inconsiderate tactics of Liebertarians though. Blame others for their refusal to pay their share of the public obligation.</p>
<p><i>Would they and their families then be able to get “free” health care from the government because they no longer had jobs?</i></p>
<p>Unemployed generally qualify for Medicaid.</p>
<p><i>You people have no clue what you are doing here.</i></p>
<p>No, once again you demonstrate your ignorance. We the people want health care reform. </p>
<p><i>I will not take a cut in profits to compensate — I’m going to raise my rates which then get passed on to you.</i></p>
<p>None of the current health care bills apply to Sim City or any other Fantasy World. In the real world, posers don&#8217;t count.</p>
<p><i>If the Senate passes this shit, it will be the end of the US economy. There is no way to avoid it.</i></p>
<p>The exact same complaint heard when Social Security, all of Roosevelt&#8217;s aid packages, Medicare, Nixon&#8217;s resignation, and the invasion of Iraq happened. We are still here.</p>
<p>You give yourself away as a poser simply because you are always saying it can&#8217;t be done instead of suggesting how it can be done. The difference between running your own business and still living off of your mother. Working for a living and being a dreamer.</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyLover</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1598997</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyLover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1598997</guid>
		<description>#31, Is that how you justify it?  Because it&#039;s called a &quot;tax&quot; it is therefore not a forced purchase of insurance?

What if a small business owner decided he wasn&#039;t going to provide insurance for his people anymore nor pay the insurance fee to the government?  Would the government come in, shut down his business by putting him in jail, and put all his people out of work?  Would they and their families then be able to get &quot;free&quot; health care from the government because they no longer had jobs?

You people have no clue what you are doing here.  This is going to do nothing but increase the cost of insurance more than it is now.  And you are going to be paying for it because I will not take a cut in profits to compensate -- I&#039;m going to raise my rates which then get passed on to you.  Groceries are going to cost more because the grocer has a higher bill.  Unemployment will remain high because companies won&#039;t want the extra burden of hiring people due to the added overhead.

If the Senate passes this shit, it will be the end of the US economy.  There is no way to avoid it.

So much for &quot;taxes on those making less than $250,000 will not go up.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#31, Is that how you justify it?  Because it&#8217;s called a &#8220;tax&#8221; it is therefore not a forced purchase of insurance?</p>
<p>What if a small business owner decided he wasn&#8217;t going to provide insurance for his people anymore nor pay the insurance fee to the government?  Would the government come in, shut down his business by putting him in jail, and put all his people out of work?  Would they and their families then be able to get &#8220;free&#8221; health care from the government because they no longer had jobs?</p>
<p>You people have no clue what you are doing here.  This is going to do nothing but increase the cost of insurance more than it is now.  And you are going to be paying for it because I will not take a cut in profits to compensate &#8212; I&#8217;m going to raise my rates which then get passed on to you.  Groceries are going to cost more because the grocer has a higher bill.  Unemployment will remain high because companies won&#8217;t want the extra burden of hiring people due to the added overhead.</p>
<p>If the Senate passes this shit, it will be the end of the US economy.  There is no way to avoid it.</p>
<p>So much for &#8220;taxes on those making less than $250,000 will not go up.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: TJ</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1598983</link>
		<dc:creator>TJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1598983</guid>
		<description>Thomas #29 and #30
RTFA. If you don&#039;t want health insurance you can pay the tax (2.5% of your annual salary). Nobody will be forced to buy health insurance. There is also an exemption and subsidies for those who can&#039;t afford it. 
If you even read the article attached to this post you&#039;d know that much. The jail terms mentioned are for those who refuse to pay their taxes, the codes mentioned are already on the books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas #29 and #30<br />
RTFA. If you don&#8217;t want health insurance you can pay the tax (2.5% of your annual salary). Nobody will be forced to buy health insurance. There is also an exemption and subsidies for those who can&#8217;t afford it.<br />
If you even read the article attached to this post you&#8217;d know that much. The jail terms mentioned are for those who refuse to pay their taxes, the codes mentioned are already on the books.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1598899</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1598899</guid>
		<description>#28
I wish people would stop comparing the health care situation to that of auto insurance. Driving is a **privilege**. You **choose* whether you wish to have that privilege and if so, then you must get insurance to cover damages for the people you hit not yourself. That is no where near the same as this health insurance requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#28<br />
I wish people would stop comparing the health care situation to that of auto insurance. Driving is a **privilege**. You **choose* whether you wish to have that privilege and if so, then you must get insurance to cover damages for the people you hit not yourself. That is no where near the same as this health insurance requirement.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1598898</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 05:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1598898</guid>
		<description>#20
Actually, yes, go to jail. If you do not work, you cannot be charged with failing to pay taxes. However, if you do not work, you are still mandated to purchase health insurance. Saying it is &quot;unlikely&quot; is not the same as saying isn&#039;t going to happen. Most people do not go to jail for misdemeanors but you can for up to six months and it does happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20<br />
Actually, yes, go to jail. If you do not work, you cannot be charged with failing to pay taxes. However, if you do not work, you are still mandated to purchase health insurance. Saying it is &#8220;unlikely&#8221; is not the same as saying isn&#8217;t going to happen. Most people do not go to jail for misdemeanors but you can for up to six months and it does happen.</p>
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		<title>By: FRAGaLOT</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1598755</link>
		<dc:creator>FRAGaLOT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1598755</guid>
		<description>This is EXACTLY like how it is now with car insurance in California. If you&#039;re a driver you MUST have car insurance or you&#039;ll be fined or put in jail (or be a rich bastard).

But you&#039;re not forced to buy car insurance, if you don&#039;t drive.  But you can&#039;t choose to NOT be ALIVE so you don&#039;t have to be forced to buy health insurance.

But this part of the bill isn&#039;t new, this was put into the bill a few months ago by Sen. Baucus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is EXACTLY like how it is now with car insurance in California. If you&#8217;re a driver you MUST have car insurance or you&#8217;ll be fined or put in jail (or be a rich bastard).</p>
<p>But you&#8217;re not forced to buy car insurance, if you don&#8217;t drive.  But you can&#8217;t choose to NOT be ALIVE so you don&#8217;t have to be forced to buy health insurance.</p>
<p>But this part of the bill isn&#8217;t new, this was put into the bill a few months ago by Sen. Baucus.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/07/choose-not-to-pay-for-health-insurance-go-to-jail/comment-page-2/#comment-1598750</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=62225#comment-1598750</guid>
		<description>#17 You still have some misconceptions about how cuba works. Lemmy guess, fatso Moore fan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#17 You still have some misconceptions about how cuba works. Lemmy guess, fatso Moore fan?</p>
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