Since our current system doesn’t work what with continually rising costs that are unsustainable, millions uninsured, the country’s financial health in bad shape and on and on, what should we do? With so many aspects and facets to the problem to consider, which ones are most important?
From minor tweaks to scrapping it all and starting over, where do you stand?
Look at the question from two perspectives. First, what would you do if you could wave a magic wand and start over without politicians being involved? In other words, the health care system of your dreams.
Second, given where we are and the idiotic political realities of the US these days, what are the politically and monetarily feasible changes to what we now have that you would like to see?
#99
Jefferson’s comment quoted by LibertyLover was to show that Jefferson believed that equality of rights did not imply equality of prosperity. On that statement, Jefferson was absolutely correct then and now. At no time, did anyone imply that Jefferson said anything about health insurance. The quote was applied to a discussion about fundamental liberty.
Now, that said, the very concept of licensed doctors did not happen until the middle of the 19th century. Thus, the supply of doctors was substantially higher and the costs were substantially lower (even in real terms). If anything, slaves did not pay anything for health insurance as any care was covered by the owner. Of course, it also means they had no choice in the quality of their care or their physician. With respect to a retirement plan for slaves, for slaves that were kept most of their lives in *some* ways, they probably had a better retirement plan that most of us as they had housing, food and care all their lives.
Some things do change, however, supply and demand principles do not. If we restrict the supply, price will go up. If we cap the price, supply will go down. If we restrict the supply and the price, then we have to tell a large portion of the demand to go f- themselves (i.e. rationing).
Thomas,
Jefferson raped his slaves and had offspring. qed.
Murdering slaves was a normal part of slave handling, just like farmers kill livestock. Qed.
Jefferson had slaves.
Please contact your local university if you have different information.
Lol retard.
#95, I was going to saying something about your love for Jefferson but Thomas, in #100, did a far better job.
I’m glad you think the republicans were so bad. After all, it was them who started the “40 acres and a mule” promise right after the civil war. I guess you can credit the republicans with the first US social program.
#96, If you do not want to pay taxes to for the betterment of the community
And where do you get that idea? Listening to other people?
I am against federal encroachment of States’ and People’s Rights as defined in the 10th Amendement.
Just because the majority wants it, doesn’t mean they will get it. This is a republic, not a democracy. Unless they approve an amendment.
Of all the crap that our Gov subsidizes, why not health care?
So, because they got away with one wrong, another must be ok?
Crazy.
eliminate that mark-up
I guess you are going to work for the government and handle all the paperwork? And you are going to do it for free? THANKS!
…and are you telling me it’s ok to take away someones life because they lack insurance or a means to pay for treatment?
Are you going to take away my happiness because I want a free mansion through your INACTION when you have the means and technology to give it to me? Where’s your compassion for your fellow man?
Stop thinking with your emotions.
This medical industry is the — most — regulated industry in the nation. How is MORE regulation going to help that?
The problems we have now are because we have too much government involvement, not too little.
#98 Fact is, as any society becomes more mature and populated, they expect more from their government …
You are actually quite correct. What we don’t need is a bloated incompetent government — which is just what we have. We also do not need a government taking the power away from the states and the people.
ruling bodies.
We had a ruling body at one time. We had a revolution to throw it off.
How many laws concerning the Environmental did the US have on it’s books in the late 1800’s? After the USA industrialized, we started creating pollution, we eventually noticed the effects of said pollution, we got a whole set of laws.
Interesting discussion. Why didn’t the people sue the big companies for property rights violations? I guess it was easier to complain to your senator.
America is moving toward and will settle on a hybrid system of governance with many aspects of socialism. It’ll take time, decades, but I think we’ll get it right. We could error on the side of excess socialism but I really doubt it.
It will never be right because people will always want more power, more money. It will not, ever, never in a million years, end, unless the people take it back. It will never be given back.
You want a hybrid system? Look at the TARP funds.
You want a hybrid system? Look at the current welfare systems provided by the US government. It is over half the US budget and STILL you scream for more.
You want a hybrid system? Look at the public school system.
You want a hybrid system? Look at FEMA/Katrina.
I could list hundreds more but I am not sure you would get it.
#102
There is absolutely ZERO evidence to show that Jefferson had sex with anyone against their will. Rather, there is evidence to suggest that Jefferson’s relation with Hemings was actually rather intimate. Regardless, just because one of his slaves bore him a child in no way establishes that force himself upon her.
You need to stop studying at the Alfred1 school of logic and learn how logic works. Your argument fall into the category of syllogisms:
A. All slaves bearing children from their owner were raped.
B. Jefferson had a child from one of his slaves
C. Jefferson must be a rapist.
Since the first statement is patently false (and unprovable), the entire line of logic is nonsense.
Similarly, with your later line of thinking:
A. All slave owners killed slaves
B. Jefferson owned slaves.
C. Jefferson must have killed slaves.
Again, because the first statement is false (and again, unprovable), the entire link of thinking is rubbish.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and any proof that Jefferson raped his slaves (by today’s definition) or murdered them would definitely be extraordinary. No one will take you seriously if you throw out ridiculous statements without proof.
Like I said, you’re a crazy person.
#103, Loser,
#96, If you do not want to pay taxes to for the betterment of the community
And where do you get that idea? Listening to other people?
From you. Remember? The armpit that doesn’t want to pay taxes? Ya, that’s right, YOU.
…and are you telling me it’s ok to take away someones life because they lack insurance or a means to pay for treatment?
Are you going to take away my happiness because I want a free mansion through your INACTION when you have the means and technology to give it to me? Where’s your compassion for your fellow man?
So now you are in favor of EVERYONE getting a free mansion? Sorry, as nice as it sounds, that is a bit radical for my tastes.
A mansion is not required for “life” or even survival. Medical treatment is for most people. The difference is plain to anyone with a minimum of two brain cells.
Of all the crap that our Gov subsidizes, why not health care?
So, because they got away with one wrong, another must be ok?
What wrong? It seems to me that most people appreciate the current government “subsidies” we currently have. Except for those who don’t currently benefit so they don’t want their taxes to pay for that stuff.
ruling bodies.
We had a ruling body at one time. We had a revolution to throw it off.
We did? Perhaps you can tell us about that sometime. My history book said something else, such as ‘man has the right to chose his own government’. So today we elect our “ruling bodies” instead of having them imposed upon us. This also allows us to change the government if collectively we disapprove of their performance.
Why didn’t the people sue the big companies for property rights violations?
Simply because the laws didn’t allow lawsuits at the time for environmental damage. Which is why no one was ever charged with anything for the Love Canal problem even though the perpetrators were largely known.
You want a hybrid system? Look at the current welfare systems provided by the US government. It is over half the US budget and STILL you scream for more.
You still trot out that tired old excuse. It is wrong. The largest portions of the Federal Budget are Medicare and Social Security, both of which are paid for by their recipients. They are not welfare.
Now the Defense budget, much of that could be classed as welfare.
You want a hybrid system? Look at FEMA/Katrina.
Government failure ruined a community AND many lives. How you figure this has anything to do with a “hybrid” government action is beyond me.
*
Why you continue to trot out the same tired, repeatedly refuted crap all the time amazes me. Can’t you think of anything else to do in mommy’s basement?
both of which are paid for by their recipients. They are not welfare.
#105, Were you talking to me?
@107,
Are the loser that posted #103?
#108, Well, I didn’t see your answer in there and I know you know you aren’t allowed to talk to me until you answer why you would let others die to save your wife.
I guess you got conFused again.
Urgent!! Robert Reich on your healthcare http://bit.ly/SAQ7a
Why A Strong Public Option Is Essential – By jacksmith – Working Class
Robert Reich explains the pubic option: http://bit.ly/dDYSJ
Hollywood Supports The Public Option
http://bit.ly/3XLwPi
Beautiful HEATHER GRAHAM http://bit.ly/12sRYD
It’s not just because more than two thirds of the American people want a single payer health care system. And if they cant have a single payer system 77% of all Americans want a strong government-run public option on day one (86% of democrats, 75% of independents, and 72% republicans). Basically everyone.
It’s not just because according to a new AARP POLL: 86 percent of seniors want universal healthcare security for All, including 93% of Democrats, 87% of Independents, and 78% of Republicans. With 79% of seniors supporting creating a new strong Government-run public option plan, available immediately. Including 89% of Democrats, 80% of Independents, and 61% of Republicans, STUNNING!!
It’s not just because it will lower cost. Because a strong public option will dramatically lower cost for everyone. And dramatically improved the quality of care everyone receives in America and around the World. Rich, middle class, and poor a like.
It’s not just because it will save trillions of dollars and prevent the needless deaths of millions more of YOU, caused by a rush to profit by the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX!
It’s not just because every expert in every field, including economist, and Nobel laureates all agree that free market based healthcare systems don’t work. Never have and never will. The US has the only truly free market based healthcare system in the World. And as you all know now, IT IS A DISASTER!
It’s not just because providing or denying medically necessary care for profit motivations is wrong. Because it is WRONG! It’s professionally, ethically, and morally REPUGNANT!, Animalistic, VILE and EVIL.
THE REASON THE PUBLIC OPTION IS ESSENTIAL:
The public option is ESSENTIAL because over 200 million of you are trapped in the forest of the wolves. Which is the forest of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! With no way out except through needless inhumane suffering, and DEATH. While the wolves tear at your flesh, and rip you limb from lib. Then feast on your lifeless bodies like a dead carcase for transplant parts.
At the most vulnerable times of your lives (when you were sick and hurting), millions of you have had to fight and loose cruel, but heroic battles. Fighting against the big guns of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! in the forest of the wolves. All because you have no place else to go. You have no other CHOICE!
But the PUBLIC OPTION will give you someplace safe to go. And it will give us someplace safe to take you. The public option will be your refugium (your refuge). Where the wolves cannot get at you when your down, hurting, and vulnerable. Where everyone who needs it can find rest, security, comfort and the care they need. Protected by the BIG GUNS of We The People Of The United States. THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE AND COUNTRY ON EARTH.
This is why it is so critical that we do not lead another 50 million vulnerable, uninsured Americans into the forest of the wolves, without the protections of a Strong Government-run MEDICARE like public option. We The People Of The United States MUST NOT LET THAT HAPPEN to any more of our fellow Americans. If healthcare reform does not contain a strong MEDICARE like public option on day one. YOU MUST! KILL IT. Or you will do far more harm than good. And millions more will die needlessly. Rich, middle class, and poor a like.
To those who would continue to obstruct good and true healthcare reform for the American people, and who seek to trap millions more vulnerable Americans in the forest of the wolves. We will continue to fight you. We are prepared to wage all out war against you, and will eagerly DESTROY! you. Time…is…UP! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! No Co-op’s! No Triggers! NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATES! without a Strong MEDICARE like public option on day one.
Healthcare reform can be the GREATEST! Accomplishment of our time and century. A time when future generations may say of us, that we were all, AMERICAS GREATEST GENERATIONS.
BUT WE MUST ACT!
I therefore call on all my fellow Americans and the peoples of the World. To join us in this fight so that we may finish becoming the better America that we aspire to be for everyone.
SPREAD THE WORD!
I have been privileged to be witness as many of you fought, and struggled to take your first breath, and your last breath on this earth. Rich, middle class, and poor a like. Life is precious.
Whatever the cost. WE! MUST SUCCEED.
God Bless You My Fellow Human Beings
jacksmith – Working Class
ATTENTION!! Congress Has The Votes Needed To Pass A Public Option – TODAY http://bit.ly/TCq7O
Things You Can Do To Help NOW! http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2009/09/tired_of_watching_people_die_n.html
A majority of voters would rather have a Democrats only bill with a Public Option. Than a bipartisan bill without a Public Option.
A state based insurance plan is NOT!! a Public Option. Nor is it a Strong, National, Medicare like Public Option.
No Triggers! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-rosenbaum/a-trigger-for-the-public_b_277910.html
Triggers http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/weve-seen-these-triggers_b_283583.html
Krugman on heathcare (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/)
Senator Bernie Sanders on healthcare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSM8t_cLZgk&feature=player_embedded)
John Garamendi on the Public Option and the Grassroots: http://bit.ly/TJMty
Howard Dean on the Public Option http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SKfW2dUnow&feature=player_embedded
We’re Number 37! in quality of health care http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4&feature=player_embedded
Twitter search (#welovethenhs #NHS #hc09 #hcr #healthcar #obama #p2 #topprog #) Check it out.
#110,
“We the People [...] do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
You request is touching but the U.S. Constitution forbids the creation of such a system.
“We the People” is not a democratic license to do what the majority wants on a whim, ignoring the rights of the minority.
However, if you feel that strongly about it, please donate your time and money to this cause. Or even better, talk to your State reps and see if you can get something like that implemented there.
FYI . . . http://tinyurl.com/yerdt4k