Outrage over a Bow

Published on November 16th, 2009

Posted by McCullough in Politics, international

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Political talk shows have played and replayed the moment from the second day of Obama’s week-long Asia tour, which set the blogosphere on fire and chat show tongues wagging.

“I don’t know why President Obama thought that was appropriate. Maybe he thought it would play well in Japan. But it’s not appropriate for an American president to bow to a foreign one,” said conservative pundit William Kristol speaking on the Fox News Sunday program, adding that the gesture bespoke a United States that has become weak and overly-deferential under Obama.

Another conservative voice, Bill Bennett, said on CNN’s “State of the Union” program: “It’s ugly. I don’t want to see it.”

“We don’t defer to emperors. We don’t defer to kings or emperors. The president of the United States — this coupled with so many apologies from the United States — is just another thing,” said Bennett.
Some conservative critics juxtaposed the image of Obama with one of former US vice president Dick Cheney, who greeted the emperor in 2007 with a firm handshake but no bow.
“I’ll bet if you look at pictures of world leaders over 20 years meeting the emperor in Japan, they don’t bow,” Kristol said.

Idiots.

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# 1 Dallas said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:42 am

Oh the horror. Republicans unite!

# 2 Toxic Asshead said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:42 am

Not idiots. America is superior to all other nations it’s citizens should bow to no one, especially not our elected representatives.

# 3 ramuno said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:45 am

How refreshing to see an American leader who is not an arrogant a-hole.

# 4 Mike Toole said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:46 am

I reckon Messrs Kristol and Bennett haven’t visited Japan. Bowing is a standard greeting there, though combining a handshake with a bow as low as the president is displaying is kind of hilariously over-polite.

Mostly, though, he’s just displaying some good manners. Nothing wrong with that. Here’s yet another non-issue to argue about while the real problems fester. Thanks, horrible sensationalist news media!

# 5 brm said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:53 am

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/11/on-president-obamas-bow-to-the-japanese-emperor-an-academic-friend-writes-that-both-the-left-and-the-right-are-wrong.html

# 6 bobbo, mental health often is a conscious choice said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:55 am

Hah, Hah. Excellent McCullough==good call.

Is this really causing a “stir” anywhere? I’ve seen it reported 4-5 times in a very flat matter of fact tone.

If this were a matter of international protocol, I would think “everyone” would be following it or reported as a violation of same.===and its not. SO, I can only assume it is a matter of personal preferences how P, VP, etc relate to one another. Should our female politicians where head coverings, take off shoes in shrines etc?

OR, just kiss them on the lips and take their money in the name of Patriotic American Capitalism?

# 7 jescott418 said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:00 am

I don’t see the problem here. Japan people of all kinds bow. Its a type of greeting. But its this petty whining that makes Republican’s look stupid.
Their are plenty of legitimate complaints about Obama I agree with . But this is not one of them.

# 8 Troublemaker said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:10 am

I’m more concerned about his ass kissing to Wall Street than his bowing to a Japanese Emperor.

# 9 ubiquitous talking head said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:13 am

He just try to rook him in eye

# 10 MikeN said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:19 am

At this point in time, bowing to the Japanese emperor is no big deal. I’m more concerned with how he sucks up to Chavez, Ortega, and the like.

# 11 Dale said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:32 am

Respecting a host country’s cultural customs isn’t a sign of weakness whereas disrespecting your president and elected leader is.

# 12 PaullTT said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:42 am

If this was no issue, why did the White House LIE about it when he bowed to the Saudi King?

No has to unite, actually, Obama is well on his way to becoming the worst President since Carter and will be serving or should I say apologizing for just one term. Anyone want to take that bet?

# 13 eaglescout1998 said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:45 am

Note to Obama: The next time Michelle opens her purse, reach in there and retrieve your balls.

# 14 Austere Powers said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:48 am

“Oh look! A penny!”

# 15 meetsy said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:52 am

What was groveling for?
Bows have a very, very well defined meaning:

The etiquette surrounding bowing, including the length and depth of bow, and the appropriate response, is exceedingly complex. For example, if the other person maintains his or her bow for longer than expected (generally about two or three seconds), it is polite to bow again, upon which one may receive another bow in return. This often leads to a long exchange of progressively lighter bows.

Generally speaking, an inferior bows longer, more deeply and more frequently than a superior. A superior addressing an inferior will generally only nod the head slightly, while some superiors may not bow at all and an inferior will bend forward slightly from the waist.

Bows of apology tend to be deeper and last longer than other types of bow. They tend to occur with frequency during the apology, generally at about 45 degrees with the head lowered and lasting for at least the count of three, sometimes longer. The depth, frequency and duration of the bow increases with the sincerity of the apology and the severity of the offence. (source: wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_Japan#Bowing )

You don’t bow and shake. It’s just WEIRD. And, if you do, you do it to the side…not like President O’bozo was doing there. The whole body language says “I am weak, I am sorry, and I am below you.”
MORONIC!

Simp

# 16 Benjamin said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:53 am

The question is: who bowed first: Obama or the emperor. If the emperor bowed first and Obama was returning the bow fine.

Under rules for bowing (similar to rules for saluting) the lower ranked person bows first, then the higher ranked person politely exchanges the bow. There is a order of precedences based on treaties and the outcome of wars. The US is at the top of that list.

# 17 The0ne said, on November 16th, 2009 at 11:53 am

Bowing is not just from Japan. Many Asian cultures bow, including ours. One one refuses to do so in return is beyond me. Might as well not shake anyone’s hand here or bother saying hi.

Utterly ridiculous.

# 18 Dr Dodd said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

Can’t help but laugh that Obama’s first instinct is to bend over when meeting world leaders.

Good thing Arafat in no longer around or Barack would run the risk of becoming his boy-toy.

# 19 RTaylor said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

When in Rome…..

# 20 chuck said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

The outrage stems from the fact that in the US, all men are supposed to be equal. We may have different customs and methods of greeting, but there is nothing that requires us to follow those customs.

If Obama wants to bow, then he is free to do so. But he must realize that it’s not just a slightly different cultural greeting – it’s deference to a “superior”.

Now let’s say, hypothetically, that the next time Obama visits Russia, the protocol office in Russia lets his advance team know that they have a new “custom” that requires visitors to dance the hokey-pokey before the Russian leader. Will Obama say “no” or will we have the “leader of the free world” dancing the hokey-pokey on youtube ?

# 21 MikeR said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

News Flash:
Obama is Polite – Right-wing outraged.

# 22 spsffan said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

Okay, since nobody else will put it so bluntly:

If Americans and Republicans in particular weren’t obsessed with gay sex, bending over to show respect to another world leader, in a country where bowing is a normal greeting, wouldn’t even make the news.

But, here in the good old USA, if you are a man and you bend at the hips, it means you want IT.

Sickos!

# 23 spsffan said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

#21 Mike…

You got that right!

# 24 meetsy said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

MikeR, f*ck y*u! It’s nothing to do with Republican or Democrat, you idiot. Maybe when you grow up you’ll see that a.) there is not difference between the two parties any longer (one party, all politicians), and b.) they don’t represent US, as in you and me.
Next, perhaps you’ll consider the wonderful way we’re being presented to the world….first crappy Walmart gifts (in the wrong DVD format for the UK leader) and now, bending over like he’s getting the soap in a men’s prison for the Emperor. Great.
We’re looking more and more like bozo’s every day. First Bush, now Obama….. if there was any doubt in anyone’s mind it is dispelled. We ARE a bunch of illiterate, greedy, lazy trailer trash. Quick someone, write a new national song..

# 25 The Monster's Lawyer said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

#20 Chuckles – The hokey-pokey is hardly traditional in Russia. If a particular gesture is reserved for the leader of a country, like kissing a ring or some other crap, I could see deferring on it. But if the custom is practiced as a greeting between all persons in a country then the best decision is to do as in Rome.

# 26 smittybc said, on November 16th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

#21
No.. it’s Obama being a noob. Making the emperor feel out of place with your incoherent actions is not a show of politeness.

A deep bow, looking down and extending your hand is a show of submission/shame/apology, which is true not only in Japan but many parts of the world.

What would have been better for the President would have been a bow of fifteen degrees, eyes up and front, and hands by his side. After his bow was received by the Emperor and returned, then an according handshake. This would have signaled to all of Japan with a bunch of pomp and extra steps, the exact same message that was conveyed by the Emperor with his partial-bow-shake hand at side. Strength and humility, all at the same time. Emperor-1 Obama-0.

Obama was trying to be too cool for school and screwed it up. Nothing more nothing less. Amazing what gets play in the press.

# 27 Austere Powers said, on November 16th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

It’s just how you show your shag rug to foreign leaders, baby. No need to get your willie in a knot.

# 28 bill said, on November 16th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

Dale, #11 is entirely correct.

The Emperor of Japan, rates a bow.

There are not enough manners or respect in this world.

If this bothers you I think you have a self esteem problem.

# 29 chuck said, on November 16th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

And yet, Presidents and Prime Ministers from other countries who attended the same summit managed to get through their greeting without bowing (or at least not appearing to bow).

Obama was photographed and it became a big news story because he was the only one to bow and shake hands so ridiculously. BTW, the usual process is: shake hands first, then (after disengaging handshake) bow. Or don’t shake hands, just bow. Or just bow. Or don’t do anything.

# 30 MikeR said, on November 16th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

#24 – meetsy
I’m not an American.

# 31 americanrevultion said, on November 16th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

I thought all the men who died in the American
Revolution did so that we don’t have to bow
to anyone. We should be polite to just about
everyone, but I have a bad back when it comes
to this crap.

# 32 888 said, on November 16th, 2009 at 2:09 pm

Just because he is a leader of a mightiest country it doesn’t mean he has to be rude asshole, bow is very apropiate.

However, as chuck said (#29), nobody SHAKE HANDS AND BOWS in the same time!

This showed complete lack of knowledge what is apropiate.
For a head of state it was huge faux pas, and indeed it looks like Obama indeed just saw a penny on the floor when he was handshaking with Emperor (as #14 Austere Powers noted)

Anyways, not that most of Americans would ever notice it, so it’s still OK… at least he didn’t high-five the guy

# 33 dusanmal said, on November 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

#4,7,11: If it is so “cultural custom” may we expect Obama to bend and kiss the robe of Iran’s Supreme Leader once they (as Obama promised pre-election) meet? It is known cultural custom to do so in Iran…

Obama is either forgetting that he is no more small lawyer/community organizer but the most powerful world leader or he is intentionally doing this kind of nonsense to diminish America stature in the world, to make us more average and mediocre as Marxist/socialist world order requires.

# 34 GigG said, on November 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Check your Japanese customs. That deep a bow is for an underling to a superior. A simple head nod with slight bending at the waist would have been appropriate for the situation.

And the State Dept Protocol folks should have explained that to the President. But since they work for Hillary they probably told him the wrong thing on purpose.

# 35 The0ne said, on November 16th, 2009 at 2:13 pm

Again, next time don’t fcking say hi or shakes hand if you have a problem with this! Enough said. If you’re not American as #30 responded, then tell us how you greet each other these people can make a huge mess of it too.

Seriously, if you don’t want to greet anyone then don’t. But don’t expect your lame ass to be consider in a nice way, in ANY culture.

# 36 Guyver said, on November 16th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Right-Wing perspective is around maintaining control of the meeting and to not imply any sort of weakness.

Left-Wing perspective is around the well-intentioned attempt at being culturally sensitive.

Overall, there’s more important things to talk about than this. Such as Cap & Trade or Government-run Health Care.

# 37 McCullough said, on November 16th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

He he…so amusing.

# 38 Timuchin said, on November 16th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

0bama shook hands and then suddenly bowed to the King of Arabia. He was carrying out protocol and then was carried away with his Muslim heart and bowed to the keeper of Mecca. This is being used as evidence that he is only faking being leftist. He is first and foremost Muslim.

When America was catching on to this fact, he had to do it again to someone. The Emperor was a good person to do it with. The leftist shills will say this is proof he isn’t Muslim.

In Japan protocol requires either a bow to the god in the other person or a handshake as an equal to the other person. Not both.

# 39 Ralph, the Bus Driver said, on November 16th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

What utter and complete crap!!! I fly into Japan at least five or six times a year and I have always been bowed to and bow back.

Few pay much attention to the degree of the bow, just that it was done. To ignore a bow is an extreme signal of disrespect.

I can picture these idiots at FOX blathering about whether a handshake was sufficient to show respect. Do you shake right hands and then grasp with the right hands with the left? Do you pump up and down while covering the other person in spittle as you shout “GLAD Y’ALL COULD MAKE IT!!!” Do you shake vigorously or leave your hand limp?

Only a wing nut would care enough to make a big deal out of it.

# 40 bac said, on November 16th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

May be Obama thought he should take his height into consideration when he bowed.

For some Americans, coming across as arrogant ass jerks is better than being polite and respectful. Of course, these same people also do not want to come across as intelligent either.

# 41 St. Patrick said, on November 16th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

#38, Timmy,

He was carrying out protocol and then was carried away with his Muslim heart and bowed to the keeper of Mecca.

You do realize that you are a fraud and won’t be allowed into heaven. God doesn’t like frauds. And I don’t think God likes you. I know I don’t.

# 42 Loupe Garou said, on November 16th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

He could at least give him a dap or a pound.

# 43 Buzz said, on November 16th, 2009 at 5:04 pm

Respect. The new weakness!

# 44 Animby said, on November 16th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

Is there a Nobel Prize for bowing to the most foreign leaders?

# 45 deowll said, on November 16th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

I don’t see what the fuss is about. Obama has pretty much conceded that every other leader in the free world is his superior and I pretty much agree.

# 46 George said, on November 16th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

This is more of a question of whether Obama really understands the USA. Him growing up outside the US, I truly don’t think he really understands America. (I wonder if he still thinks there are 57 states?)

We settled the issue of bowing before Emperors, Kings and Potentates when Cornwallis surrendered in 1781. Obama doesn’t seem to get this.

Will he direct the US Olympians to dip the American flag now? (Something we haven’t done since the Berlin games in 1936).

If you want to see how an American greets an Emperor, look at this photo:

http://tinyurl.com/y8wgnbh

# 47 wow said, on November 16th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

See, if American were better at teaching people about foreign cultures, we wouldn’t have this problem. I blame the educational system.

# 48 raster said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

Not a word (of course) about how shaking hands is NOT a traditional Japanese custom, and yet he’s shaking the president’s hand!

It’s almost like they’re trying to be diplomatic!

# 49 Rick Cain said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

Obama isn’t required to bow, because he is Emperor of America.

# 50 ramuno said, on November 16th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

Anyone remember when Bush was holding hands with the Indian leader while they walked in the Rose Garden?

That was their custom, but in our country.

So no one remembers things from only a couple of years ago?

# 51 Angry said, on November 17th, 2009 at 12:51 am

#43

No, more like “no respect for the new weakness”.

# 52 pedro said, on November 17th, 2009 at 1:30 am

#10 So am I. But he was doing that way before the election.

#24 Refreshing seeing someone here from time to time reminding the partisan bozos they’re part of the problem, but sadly you’re wasting your time.

#30 same difference.

# 53 pedro said, on November 17th, 2009 at 2:55 am

#50 Sadly yes, we remember. That’s what makes it more pathetic that the US is 0 for 2 regarding the last presidents

# 54 Alex said, on November 17th, 2009 at 3:48 am

After all Obama is not the Mesias, so settle down ..

# 55 Mr. Fusion said, on November 17th, 2009 at 5:44 am

I guess the right wing nuts forgot Eisenhower bowing to Queen Elizabeth, the Pope, the Italian Prime Minister, Archbishop Iakovos of New York, President DeGaulle of France, among others; and, Nixon bowing to Emperor Hirohito, the man who bombed Pearl Harbor; and Reagan bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia. Contrary to popular belief, Ford wasn’t bowing to Prince Abu Dongding; he was admiring the dung between the prince’s toes.

In more recent memory though, we have Bush I puking all over his Japanese hosts and Bush II holding hands in a very gay way with Crown Prince Abdullah, a Muslim. Definitely NOT a Saudi tradition but what happens in Crawford Texas, stays in Crawford Texas. Not to mention the Crown Prince was invited to the Crawford ranch more than any other world leader.

# 56 RTaylor said, on November 17th, 2009 at 6:11 am

I found the Japanese appreciative of attempts to observe their customs. Now go to France and try to speak a bit of French. They try to kill you with that sardonic glare only they can do.

# 57 Winston said, on November 17th, 2009 at 8:13 am

“Honorable sir, please keep buying our debt instruments.”

# 58 Glass Half Full said, on November 17th, 2009 at 9:12 am

ROTFLMAO

Yet more fake Republican outrage. Idiots. If you have nothing real to discuss or debate, just make up stuff. Pathetic.

It’s just a ‘custom’. When you’re in a foreign country you great them by THEIR title and form of greeting. It’s how the State Department always worked.

If not, then you MUST believe George Bush is gay. Why else did he kiss another man repeatedly on multiple occasions, and walk around holding his hand. Either George Bush is gay, or he was just following a greeting custom and kissing another man for that reason. LOL

# 59 Glass Half Full said, on November 17th, 2009 at 9:15 am

And since conservatives don’t read books, or bother with details, I’ll explain. The custom is you bow and your head should just be below the head of the Emperor. Normally this would just be a ’slight’ bow, for people of near equal heights. But Obama is a lot taller, so he has to bend a lot more.

But facts or reality don’t matter to the anti-science, anti-evolution, anti-reality Republican party. So they will just “believe” whatever they want. It’s funny and cute, but sometimes frustrating when you’re trying to explain something. It’s like talking to a 4 year old. They can kind of understand words, but can’t put them in conceptual context and really understand them.

# 60 Mr. Fusion said, on November 17th, 2009 at 9:20 am

#59, Glass,

That is so well put. Damn, I am laughing at those who still won’t recognize themselves.

# 61 pedro said, on November 17th, 2009 at 10:16 am

#55 Great argument pointing out the great change your spiritual leader has brought to the government. Kudos for pointing out he’s more of the same.

#58 ROTFLMAO Another idiot demagogues thinking that making repugs look bad will make his god look better. You have a bit of mud on your pants!

#60 You’re laughing at that ’cause your meds just kicked in. You’d be crying like a baby if you were able to see a bit of reality.

# 62 PaulTT said, on November 17th, 2009 at 10:36 am

@ MikeR:

Is it polite to lie? WH lied when Obama bowed to the Saudi King! Now he bows again! My mom told me lying was NOT polite!

# 63 smartalix said, on November 17th, 2009 at 11:53 am

Some people have far too much time and far too little understanding of what is important in American politics today. What a bunch oif slack-jawed idiots. Debate aout diplomatic protocol some more, it’s f*cking hilarious.

# 64 Don Quixote said, on November 18th, 2009 at 11:27 am

This liberal also wishes we had a real president. One like Clinton who led the country to it’s highest level ever, to only be ruined by the slack jawed idiots who made the election of an Obama possible.

# 65 Rick Cain said, on November 19th, 2009 at 6:02 pm

Obama just did it wrong. When you bow with respect, you shake your own hand. When you bow with a handshake, you are a character in the Michael Keaton comedy “Gung Ho”

THOSE….ARE RIBBONS OF SHAME!!

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