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	<title>Comments on: How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world</title>
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	<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/</link>
	<description>General interest observations and true web-log.</description>
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		<title>By: sacred guy</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1607303</link>
		<dc:creator>sacred guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 12:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1607303</guid>
		<description>amazingly maybe the should not use those ship becuz of pollution</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amazingly maybe the should not use those ship becuz of pollution</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Fusion</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604485</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Fusion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604485</guid>
		<description>#37, Glenn,

&lt;i&gt;Bet he’s heavily invested in these transport industries. That’s why. Not to mention one of the entities that makes “bunker oil”. So he’s not going to endanger any of his profit making investments, by adding them to the clean up list.&lt;/i&gt;

Your projection is amusing. You first surmise that Gore has invested in specific stocks. No proof, just &quot;betting&quot; or playing a hunch. You then take that as a fact and use it to promote your negative view of him.

Typical denier tactic. Invent a fact and run with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#37, Glenn,</p>
<p><i>Bet he’s heavily invested in these transport industries. That’s why. Not to mention one of the entities that makes “bunker oil”. So he’s not going to endanger any of his profit making investments, by adding them to the clean up list.</i></p>
<p>Your projection is amusing. You first surmise that Gore has invested in specific stocks. No proof, just &#8220;betting&#8221; or playing a hunch. You then take that as a fact and use it to promote your negative view of him.</p>
<p>Typical denier tactic. Invent a fact and run with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn E.</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604444</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604444</guid>
		<description>&quot;Both international shipping and aviation are exempt from the Kyoto Protocol rules on cutting carbon emissions.&quot;

Why am I not F-ing surprised at this?! Something Al Gore never tells you about. Wonder why? Bet he&#039;s heavily invested in these transport industries. That&#039;s why. Not to mention one of the entities that makes &quot;bunker oil&quot;. So he&#039;s not going to endanger any of his profit making investments, by adding them to the clean up list. Only you should sacrifice more income to save the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Both international shipping and aviation are exempt from the Kyoto Protocol rules on cutting carbon emissions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why am I not F-ing surprised at this?! Something Al Gore never tells you about. Wonder why? Bet he&#8217;s heavily invested in these transport industries. That&#8217;s why. Not to mention one of the entities that makes &#8220;bunker oil&#8221;. So he&#8217;s not going to endanger any of his profit making investments, by adding them to the clean up list. Only you should sacrifice more income to save the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph, the Bus Driver</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604392</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph, the Bus Driver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604392</guid>
		<description>These ships are not all that fast. The energy it takes to move is exponential to the speed. While their top speed may be 25 knots, they will more likely &quot;cruise&quot; at 18-20 knots and use half the fuel per distance. 

Because of the density, this dirty fuel is also more energy concentrated than is gasoline or jet fuel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These ships are not all that fast. The energy it takes to move is exponential to the speed. While their top speed may be 25 knots, they will more likely &#8220;cruise&#8221; at 18-20 knots and use half the fuel per distance. </p>
<p>Because of the density, this dirty fuel is also more energy concentrated than is gasoline or jet fuel.</p>
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		<title>By: gmknobl</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604361</link>
		<dc:creator>gmknobl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604361</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m tired of always arguing for the obvious truth (global warming is real and happening right now OR Neocons are jerks that are robbing the U.S. blind for just two) so I&#039;ll stop and just say this:

Whatever happened to the &quot;slow boat to China?&quot;  All we get now if the &quot;Big, fast boat from China.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m tired of always arguing for the obvious truth (global warming is real and happening right now OR Neocons are jerks that are robbing the U.S. blind for just two) so I&#8217;ll stop and just say this:</p>
<p>Whatever happened to the &#8220;slow boat to China?&#8221;  All we get now if the &#8220;Big, fast boat from China.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: deowll</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604360</link>
		<dc:creator>deowll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604360</guid>
		<description>#5 Such ships can be made but what makes money is giant high speed ships. 

#28 Everybody could also agree to live in a one room apartment without air conditioning, walk to work, and limit themselves to tv on their netbook computer screens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#5 Such ships can be made but what makes money is giant high speed ships. </p>
<p>#28 Everybody could also agree to live in a one room apartment without air conditioning, walk to work, and limit themselves to tv on their netbook computer screens.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Cain</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604333</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Cain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604333</guid>
		<description>This is the price we pay for free trade and globalist economies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the price we pay for free trade and globalist economies.</p>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604249</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604249</guid>
		<description>Dont ya love SWA??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dont ya love SWA??</p>
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		<title>By: brm</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604221</link>
		<dc:creator>brm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604221</guid>
		<description>#29:

You&#039;re nuts. Heads chopped off in Japan? Please.

Steve Jobs makes $1 a year.

And, I fly cross-country a couple times a year for $400 each time, and closer to $200 because I volunteer to get bumped at xmas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#29:</p>
<p>You&#8217;re nuts. Heads chopped off in Japan? Please.</p>
<p>Steve Jobs makes $1 a year.</p>
<p>And, I fly cross-country a couple times a year for $400 each time, and closer to $200 because I volunteer to get bumped at xmas.</p>
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		<title>By: ECA</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604177</link>
		<dc:creator>ECA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604177</guid>
		<description>28,
In china, Indonesia and Japan you can get your head chopped off..  Our telco&#039;s are run as 1 group here, cellphone companies fight but the list is getting short there are only 2-3 left.

Apple, CEO makes how much money??  the CEO of JPL makes &lt; 1/10 the wages.  And living in Japan ISNT CHEAP.

How about flying CHEAP from indoneasia/japan/.. to Australia..for &lt;$300.  Yes we have a few CHEAP airlines in the USA, but check the rates on UA, DELTA, and the others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>28,<br />
In china, Indonesia and Japan you can get your head chopped off..  Our telco&#8217;s are run as 1 group here, cellphone companies fight but the list is getting short there are only 2-3 left.</p>
<p>Apple, CEO makes how much money??  the CEO of JPL makes &lt; 1/10 the wages.  And living in Japan ISNT CHEAP.</p>
<p>How about flying CHEAP from indoneasia/japan/.. to Australia..for &lt;$300.  Yes we have a few CHEAP airlines in the USA, but check the rates on UA, DELTA, and the others.</p>
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		<title>By: brm</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604167</link>
		<dc:creator>brm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604167</guid>
		<description>#18:

&quot;The laws in other countries over being a Monopoly are very severe..&quot;

Such as. And what monopolies do we have here? Our telecommunications industry sucks, but other than that...

&quot;The Head of Japanese airlines DROPPED his own wages, BELOW his Flight captains, JUST to keep the business running. THINK they would do that in the USA??&quot;

Didn&#039;t Steve Jobs do this at Apple? An American company?

&quot;Do you know that FLYING in the USA costs more then ANY other nation?&quot;

Because there&#039;s more distance to cover? I can still fly to LA or Las Vegas for less than a hundred bucks from where I&#039;m at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#18:</p>
<p>&#8220;The laws in other countries over being a Monopoly are very severe..&#8221;</p>
<p>Such as. And what monopolies do we have here? Our telecommunications industry sucks, but other than that&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;The Head of Japanese airlines DROPPED his own wages, BELOW his Flight captains, JUST to keep the business running. THINK they would do that in the USA??&#8221;</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t Steve Jobs do this at Apple? An American company?</p>
<p>&#8220;Do you know that FLYING in the USA costs more then ANY other nation?&#8221;</p>
<p>Because there&#8217;s more distance to cover? I can still fly to LA or Las Vegas for less than a hundred bucks from where I&#8217;m at.</p>
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		<title>By: Dallas</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604163</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604163</guid>
		<description>Wow. That is amazing how much pollution these pigs generate.

Solution:  
Make them burn clean energy and pass any costs at the pump.   

Under my no nonsense energy plan, polluting the environment is no longer a free byproduct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. That is amazing how much pollution these pigs generate.</p>
<p>Solution:<br />
Make them burn clean energy and pass any costs at the pump.   </p>
<p>Under my no nonsense energy plan, polluting the environment is no longer a free byproduct.</p>
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		<title>By: Cadavre</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604146</link>
		<dc:creator>Cadavre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604146</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s common practice for almost all ships to use two kinds of fuel. While in coastal waters they run the turbines with a more or less refined fuel oils, or so called bunker fuel (No 6 oil to be precise, the same stuff as heating oil). However, once the leave coastal water ways they switch to a  less refined crude, and in some cases, depending on &quot;sweetness&quot;, unrefined crude. The off-coastal fuel has the consistency of tar and is so volatile that respirators have to be worn when working with it.

A 1 oF change in temperature will change tar to flowing liquid - oil is an suspension of a tangle of rope like organic molecules. It&#039;s really amazing stuff.

If one were to take a quick &quot;sniff&quot; of a small quantity in a sample jar, one would immediately find one&#039;s self on the floor. The effects of that one little &quot;sniff&quot; will last for days and includes nausea and a warm tingling sensation of the gums (I know - I made the mistake of a quick snort of a sample jar once - it almost knocked me out).

Pure unadulterated benzine and the zillions of other bad things when rotted biomass has fermented for millions of years is a thing to behold. Very dangerous stuff.

Now the argument maybe that China runs unrefined tar in her coastal water ways, big deal - everybody gets dirty once at sea - and it all floats and washes up to the same place. Back in the early 90&#039;s, the waters in the Port of Galvaston TX actually caught fire.

The thing to remember is that all ships run the high VOC (volatile organic compound) and high TOC (total organic compound) fuel when they&#039;re at sea. If one runs a ship labeled dirty by one port authority all they have to do is change it&#039;s port of registry and they&#039;re back in business.

If everyone is guilty - no one is innocent!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s common practice for almost all ships to use two kinds of fuel. While in coastal waters they run the turbines with a more or less refined fuel oils, or so called bunker fuel (No 6 oil to be precise, the same stuff as heating oil). However, once the leave coastal water ways they switch to a  less refined crude, and in some cases, depending on &#8220;sweetness&#8221;, unrefined crude. The off-coastal fuel has the consistency of tar and is so volatile that respirators have to be worn when working with it.</p>
<p>A 1 oF change in temperature will change tar to flowing liquid &#8211; oil is an suspension of a tangle of rope like organic molecules. It&#8217;s really amazing stuff.</p>
<p>If one were to take a quick &#8220;sniff&#8221; of a small quantity in a sample jar, one would immediately find one&#8217;s self on the floor. The effects of that one little &#8220;sniff&#8221; will last for days and includes nausea and a warm tingling sensation of the gums (I know &#8211; I made the mistake of a quick snort of a sample jar once &#8211; it almost knocked me out).</p>
<p>Pure unadulterated benzine and the zillions of other bad things when rotted biomass has fermented for millions of years is a thing to behold. Very dangerous stuff.</p>
<p>Now the argument maybe that China runs unrefined tar in her coastal water ways, big deal &#8211; everybody gets dirty once at sea &#8211; and it all floats and washes up to the same place. Back in the early 90&#8242;s, the waters in the Port of Galvaston TX actually caught fire.</p>
<p>The thing to remember is that all ships run the high VOC (volatile organic compound) and high TOC (total organic compound) fuel when they&#8217;re at sea. If one runs a ship labeled dirty by one port authority all they have to do is change it&#8217;s port of registry and they&#8217;re back in business.</p>
<p>If everyone is guilty &#8211; no one is innocent!</p>
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		<title>By: Vox</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604126</link>
		<dc:creator>Vox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604126</guid>
		<description>The article also fails to mention how the Communist Chinese ships are destroying every waterway in the world when they dump their ballast tanks. Not only do they release enourmous amounts of raw sewage but invasive species. There&#039;s a failure to blame the Asian carp on the Asians because Political Correctness says that if you blame the perpetrator you&#039;re a racist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article also fails to mention how the Communist Chinese ships are destroying every waterway in the world when they dump their ballast tanks. Not only do they release enourmous amounts of raw sewage but invasive species. There&#8217;s a failure to blame the Asian carp on the Asians because Political Correctness says that if you blame the perpetrator you&#8217;re a racist.</p>
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		<title>By: Hates idiots and liars</title>
		<link>http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/11/22/how-16-ships-create-as-much-pollution-as-all-the-cars-in-the-world/comment-page-2/#comment-1604091</link>
		<dc:creator>Hates idiots and liars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=63526#comment-1604091</guid>
		<description>Ships use Bunker oil. This is the residue left between asphalt and lighter oils such as lubricating oil. It also often has a lot of contaminants and dirt in it. 

Bunker oil is too viscous (thick) to be pumped at normal temperatures so it must be heated first. Marine engines are usually started on lighter fuels, such as diesel, and use that heat to warm the bunker oil. Only in inshore waters do ships use lighter, clean oils.

Because there are so much pollutants in bunker oil, it is so cheap. The cleaner the oil, the more expensive. BUT, refineries dump the oil sludge as bunker oil in order to get rid of it. If not, they would have to dispose of it some other way.

One big problem with the lowest grade of bunker oil is the way it mixes with water. Much more viscous than crude oil, it forms small tar balls. These tar balls can only be removed by high pressure / high temperature steam from rocks and beaches. 

Although automotive diesel and the identical home heating oil are bunker type oils*, they are cleaned and contains only minuscule amounts of sulfur. 

* home heating oil and farm diesel have special dyes added to make them tax exempt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ships use Bunker oil. This is the residue left between asphalt and lighter oils such as lubricating oil. It also often has a lot of contaminants and dirt in it. </p>
<p>Bunker oil is too viscous (thick) to be pumped at normal temperatures so it must be heated first. Marine engines are usually started on lighter fuels, such as diesel, and use that heat to warm the bunker oil. Only in inshore waters do ships use lighter, clean oils.</p>
<p>Because there are so much pollutants in bunker oil, it is so cheap. The cleaner the oil, the more expensive. BUT, refineries dump the oil sludge as bunker oil in order to get rid of it. If not, they would have to dispose of it some other way.</p>
<p>One big problem with the lowest grade of bunker oil is the way it mixes with water. Much more viscous than crude oil, it forms small tar balls. These tar balls can only be removed by high pressure / high temperature steam from rocks and beaches. </p>
<p>Although automotive diesel and the identical home heating oil are bunker type oils*, they are cleaned and contains only minuscule amounts of sulfur. </p>
<p>* home heating oil and farm diesel have special dyes added to make them tax exempt.</p>
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