The Daily Kos finds a huge loophole in the Harry Reid health bill:
(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.— In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.
Funny how none of the MSM outlets have found this – a blog has to break it. They will probably take this out, though.
#18 People are into the Constitution when it’s convenient for them. When it’s not, they’re not. You know how wingnuts babble about states’ rights, and the evil federal government infringing on their rights? When the 2000 presidential election was in the balance, they didn’t hesitate to recruit the 5 conservatives on the (federal) Supreme Court to override the Florida State Supreme Court. States are supposed to be able to run their own elections, without interference from the Feds. But if the wrong guy is about to be elected, the conservatives didn’t let any trivialities like their supposed most deeply held beliefs get in the way.
No self-respecting conservative can claim they support states’ rights after that fiasco. Guess there aren’t many self-respecting conservatives any more.
#15 I love it when a lefty loon loses it so much that they have to post twice in a row.
#18 Weird, I cannot understand why you rationalize so much lefty crap.
#20 Car insurance includes coverage for when you hit someone else’s car, so it’s more a legal responsibility thing I think. If you own your car 100%, you aren’t required to get collision or theft coverage for it, though you’d probably be foolish not to.
But I don’t believe that competition will help the health insurance mess. I can’t really figure out which car insurance company is the best — it’s a lot more than the cheapest premiums — so how would I be able to figure out which health insurance company is the best? Which one has the best doctors, the best allowance for medical procedures, the best hospitals. I’m not a medical expert, so I don’t have the skills necessary to evaluate the different insurance companies.
#23 Phydeau
“I can’t really figure out which car insurance company is the best — it’s a lot more than the cheapest premiums — so how would I be able to figure out which health insurance company is the best?”
I completely agree.
If you choose poorly on car insurance – the impact may cost you some money, but it’s not going to bankrupt/kill you.
You only find out when your health insurance is any good when its too late.
It would be a big improvement if we had a government ‘approved health care level’ program, that removed the confusion. Health insurance policies would have to meet the criteria, to be approved to display it met the criteria. Something like ‘energy star’. In doing so you can commoditize and make comparable health insurance policies – a requirement for an efficient market.
In the Uk they have such an idea they use for indexed tracked funds. If they are ‘CAT’ approved, you know it’s a reasonable deal. You don’t have to take a CAT fund – but you have to have good reasons (like you want more risk/returns) to want to.
#14, I don’t just interpret the constitution in a vacuum — I read the founding fathers and what they intended.
For instance — any kind of state sponsored welfare was anathema to them yet liberals who “color themselves unimpressed” disagree with them, those who wrote the thing.
#23, so I don’t have the skills necessary to evaluate the different insurance companies.
Learn. Take responsibility. Stop depending on someone else to tell you what is good for you.
If a single individual told you that something was good for you, you would doubt it. But if 51% of the population said it was good for you, you would accept it. I don’t understand that.
#15, You voted for him.
Many of tried to warn you what was coming but you believed his bullshit.
If this becomes reality, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Live with it.
Do you know why this bill is set up the way it is?
Because the government knows they cannot force doctors to treat someone.
By saying that everyone should have free health care, and that it is a right, you are effectively saying that those who need medical care can legally force someone to do something.
If health care was something that fell from the sky, then yes, it would be a right.
Telling someone they HAVE to work for someone else negates that being a right.
That is slavery.
#25 #14, I don’t just interpret the constitution in a vacuum — I read the founding fathers and what they intended.
You obviously have no clue about how arrogant that sounds. You know what the founding fathers intended, and the rest of us don’t. What a dope. You and the fundie Christians, so clueless and arrogant. Here’s a founding father for you:
I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.
#26 Learn. Take responsibility. Stop depending on someone else to tell you what is good for you.
See, that’s one of the many ways libertarians go wrong. You’re living in some pre-industrial dreamland where life is simple.
Life in America in 2009 is not simple. Medicine is complicated. There is no way any layman can educate himself enough in all the technologies that he would need to make an informed decision. That’s why We The People (hint hint) set up licensing boards and hire experts to evaluate the claims of various people who want to sell us goods and services. It’s called civilization. I depend on it, you depend on it despite your faux independence and your pseudo-tough talk. We went over this whole thing in another thread. Licensing is a good thing when it’s done correctly.
#27 You can go ahead and try to convince us that the Republicans would have been better for the country, after 8 years of running it into the ground. Good luck with that. The D’s suck in many ways, but the R’s suck even worse.
And #28, this bill is set up this way because the insurance and medical industries are calling the shots. This is a gold mine for them. If it was set up rationally, it would be a single payer or non-profit provider system like every other civilized nation has.
#24 It would be a big improvement if we had a government ‘approved health care level’ program, that removed the confusion. Health insurance policies would have to meet the criteria, to be approved to display it met the criteria. Something like ‘energy star’. In doing so you can commoditize and make comparable health insurance policies – a requirement for an efficient market.
That would certainly be an improvement over what we have now. An essential part of the capitalist system is the consumer having information to make intelligent choices. Which is why the big money boys are fighting it. They know they’re just glorified pencil pushers. Insurance companies add no value to the health care delivered, they only survive by charging as much as they can and denying as much healthcare as they can.
#30 Lefty lunacy at it best. Tell me, do you eat your extra rations everyday or do you leave some stored for when your masters get out of power?
#31 Pedro
‘Lefty lunacy at it best.’
How so?
It’s an idea to help make health insurance more simple and affordable. One that is demonstrated to work in other arenas.
So whats the problem. Please explain your thought process.
Photoshop my finger…
#29, That is the abbreviated quote. Here is the full quote. The underline is the stuff you left out.
“I am certainly not an advocate for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions. I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because, when once known, we accommodate ourselves to them, and find practical means of correcting their ill effects. But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the same coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”
If you knew anything about what he was referring to, you would know it was in reference to the inequalities of representation in the Virginia Constitution.
Here is another quote from that same letter:
The true foundation of republican government is the equal right of every citizen, in his person and property, and in their management.
You can go ahead and try to convince us that the Republicans would have been better for the country, after 8 years of running it into the ground. Good luck with that. The D’s suck in many ways, but the R’s suck even worse.
Try thinking outside the square.
I am on record as stating there is no difference between the parties.
every other civilized nation has.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.
#30, Health Star: Sounds like a good idea to me.
#34 — Dang it. My underlines didn’t work.
#34 Yes, anyone can wikipedia the original quote. And the parts left out from the memorial version are good too.
If you knew anything about what he was referring to, you would know it was in reference to the inequalities of representation in the Virginia Constitution.
There you go with the arrogance again. It’s amazing how you could read Thomas Jefferson’s mind so many years ago. He said all that just referring to the Virginia Constitution. Amazing.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.
Actually, if you truly wanted to live by your libertarian principles, you’d leave this country and all its socialized slavery. You would refuse to accept all the benefits that have come from our tax dollars being brutally ripped from our wallets. You wouldn’t drive on our collectivist roads, benefit from our collectivist medicine, use our collectivist electricity and water and gas. If you truly believed in what you say, you’d be off in some primitive libertarian paradise doing everything for yourself, totally free. So you’re the one who needs to worry about bruising your tender posterior… if you really believed the BS you spout.
lets not forget income tax doesnt have to be paid either
#36, Yes, anyone can wikipedia the original quote. And the parts left out from the memorial version are good too.[...]There you go with the arrogance again. It’s amazing how you could read Thomas Jefferson’s mind so many years ago. He said all that just referring to the Virginia Constitution. Amazing.
Here is the full letter.
He was in a mail exchange with Samuel Kercheval. Sam asked for Jefferson’s opinion on a state Constitutional Convention. Jefferson agreed it was good idea, mainly because at the time representation was not equal for all the people living there.
Now, I admit there are some big words in the letter, so please use this link to help you out.
Oh, and I assume you wouldn’t accept any help from the collectivist fire department if your house was on fire, or from the collectivist ambulance if you were injured. Being the principled libertarian that you are I assume you have all your own firefighting equipment and medical supplies to do it all yourself.
#39, Those are local duties, not federal duties.