It had long been rumoured that the Polish-born pontiff, who died five years ago, engaged in acts of penance and self-flagellation. The practice has now been confirmed by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican “postulator” who has the task of reviewing John Paul’s life and preparing a case for him being made a saint.
In the new book, “Why he’s a saint“, Msgr Oder writes: “As members of the Pope’s close entourage heard with their own ears, Karol Wojtyla used to flagellate himself.
“In his wardrobe, in between all his robes, a special trouser belt hung on a coat hanger, which he used as a whip. He always took it with him when he went to Castel Gandolfo (the traditional summer residence of the popes outside Rome).”
In November a Polish nun claimed that when she stayed at Castel Gandolfo she often heard John Paul whipping himself.
“Several times he would put himself through bodily penance,” said Tobiana Sobodka, a nun from the Sacred Heart of Jesus order.
“We would hear it – we were in the next room at Castel Gandolfo. You could hear the sound of the blows when he flagellated himself…”
Har!
#10
I was there when the Berlin wall fell, and I assure you it was all David Hasselhoff.
#18–YHW==Nice link. I agree the Pope supported Lech and Lech did everything else. At least this Pope did not enter into secret agreements to let Russia do as it wanted to. I guess that is help of a sort.
Can we all agree that “people” had little to do with this wave of history. Sorry Kiddies. It was economics. Poor Old USSR was rotten to the core due to bad economics. Reagan caused the final bricks to be loaded on that camel but most of the harm was caused by lack of free markets.
Too bad the USA didn’t learn the lesson from the collapse of the USSR==as we seem to be following the same course.
The Pope?????——HAR!!!!!!!!
#18,
In 30 years you will probably be able to replace the pope with Osama Bin Laden in that article and give him credit for the fall of the American Empire.
That doesn’t mean he had anything to do with it, only that it was ready to fall, a situation that the Pope himself acknowledged.
Pope defined:
Holy rolling nut-job hypocrite.
That ’bout sums it up.
#24 That describes about every other head of state.
I do believe there IS a Jesus Christ. Christ died for the sins of the world so that no one who believes him has to go to Hell. Faith in Christ alone is enough to save you from eternal damnation. He was born on Christmas (probably not on December 25th), lived a sinless life, was crucified, died, and was buried in a tomb for three days, and then he rose from the dead on Easter.
I do not believe in Santa Claus or the Easter bunny, nor do I believe in leprechauns.
# 16 Father said, on January 28th, 2010 at 10:38 am
“Benjamin, do you really believe there was a Jesus Christ?”
I am a saint. See my explanation on post #2 or look up the relvent section of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint#Protestantism Protestants believe that all Christians are saints because of their relationship with Christ Jesus.
bobbo, the devout evangelical anti-theist said, on January 28th, 2010 at 10:48 am
[snip part where bobbo was just being insulting]
“In fact, I think Benji should be a saint too given the depth of his historical appreciation”
# 26 Benjamin said, “He was born on Christmas (probably not on December 25th), lived a sinless life, was crucified, died, and was buried in a tomb for three days, and then he rose from the dead on Easter.”
But then he saw his own shadow and all the disciples knew there would be eight more weeks of winter…
Hey, most catholics do not believe Jesus Paid It All.. they gots to add to it! Bring on the whipping!
It’s a basic human impulse to do ritual suffering.
These days it’s called “detoxing” but it’s the same as exorcism or penitence.
#18, RBG,
Unfortunately, blogs usually do a poor job of reflecting actuality. While John Paul had very little to do with the Berlin wall, Walesa was not involved.
There were several causes for the 1989 revolutions that swept Eastern Europe.
First, there was resentment of Soviet occupation. No one likes the idea of foreign troops walking down their streets. Especially when they expect you to learn their language. Several uprisings had already taken place, including Hungary in 1956 and Prague in 1968. Polish discontent was little different than others nations.
East Germany suffered quite badly under the Soviet invasion at the end of WWII. The local population remembered the atrocities.
Second was the increased consumer products available in the West. Western mass media showed those behind the Iron Curtain utopian Western households with fancy electronic products, big flashy cars, and an abundance of rich foods. Besides the mass media, samples often showed up. Two huge examples were Levi jeans and Beatle records.
Third was poor planning. Decisions on crops were too often made by those with no or little comprehension of agriculture. Manufacturing couldn’t get raw materials. Transportation fell apart from a lack of equipment that couldn’t tolerate the poor roads. Production demands and lack of proper equipment and materials led to decreasing quality.
Fourth was a drought and blight that plagued the USSR agriculture. Most Iron Curtain countries depended upon the USSR for staples to feed the populous cities.
All of these (and others) led to unrest in all of the Soviet bloc. It was the strength of the Central Governments that kept the lids on. By the time Poland relented some and allowed some democracy the USSR was having its own problems.
East Germany was perhaps the strongest government. The opening of the Berlin Wall was totally unexpected but had more to do with family ties between East and West Berlin. West Berlin TV and radio broadcast into the heart of East Germany. They showed a peaceful people with well built cars, full stomachs, good, well fitting cloths, enjoying the luxuries of life. The thumb of the Soviets was missing. It was only a matter of time.
BUT, Walesa was little known in East Germany. He and his revolution was not discussed as that talk was liable to have the Stasi at your door. His influence was very minimal. The Pope also held little political sway as he tried not to rock the boat. The Fall of the Wall was a local event.
Mr. Fusion,
I’m no expert like you but I do know that many experts give credit to both the Catholics (in Poland) and the Muslims (in Afghanistan) with the fall of European Communism. The atheistic communists always viewed religion as a major threat and and it seems like history proved them right.
I don’t understand why you would dismiss this, no one says that any SINGLE think brought them down. Are you missing the forest for the trees?
LOLs. I’m a great advocate of self flagellation and think it should be encouraged amongst the devout. Oh yes, most especially the devout. In fact, I think it should be exclusively be practised by the those idiots who think that they can somehow develop a closer bond to their imaginary friend through self harm because all else has failed. Well done. Keep going. If your whip wears out, I’ll buy you another one.
#32, Greg Allen
Historians will always disagree to some extent. RBG’s link above suggested the Catholic Church and Leck Walesa were responsible. Any involvement was very insignificant.
While Poland was largely Catholic, Solidarity wasn’t. The USSR had small Orthodox and Muslim populations. East Germany had significant Lutheran populations. Organized religions were largely apolitical as they feared the government cracking down if there was any dissent. In other words, the organized religions preferred to preach than to lead the revolutions.
The Berlin Wall fell because of overwhelming pressure from within. As controlling as the East German government was, it couldn’t ignore the fact that their country was collapsing from within. When the East Germans were demanding food, the EG Government decided to open the border to allow West German goods in, hoping to placate the people. THAT is what made the wall fall.
Countries that fought the reforms in 1989 could only do so with force. Romania saw hundreds of demonstrators shot and thousands jailed. Albania jailed many. Bulgaria arrested protesters. All these countries capitulated within a couple of years to democracy.
China was the only communist country where the revolution was brutally suppressed and reforms never came.
Religious people will always try to point out there contributions. Right wing nuts will claim it was all Reagan’s policies. The truth is more of hungry people wanting food and the governments couldn’t give it to them. Hunger is a very strong motivator.
Iran and much of Central America went through very similar revolutions 10 years earlier. Those revolutions were to throw off the yoke of American supported dictatorships.
Mind you, mine is not the complete story as there was much more that happened. The fall of the Berlin Wall though is just one incident in a much larger movement that swept the world.
#31 Even taking your comment as true, both of them were 1,000 times more involved than you ever were
#32 He always misses the forest for the trees. He’s conFused!
#33 LOL!
#34 No wonder your views of the world are so skewed. I pity you.
#35, Cherman,
Isn’t there some wreck tum you should be getting to know on a lip to lip basis?