[Via Jack Liberty]




  1. LDA says:

    # 19 BmoreBadBoy

    So you half agree but are implying you do not. Fine, where do I start?

    “Unfounded fears”

    Not fear disgust.

    “Corrupt corporations wouldn’t be so large without the assistance of government regulations that allow them to grow while keeping their competition at bay.”

    Agreed (or more accurately you agree with me).

    “Walmart…K-Mart”

    No, they influence. Monsanto, Halliburton, the Fed’s, Goldman etc. control/are the (illegitimate) government.

    “Big difference between “control” and “are”

    Yes, I am aware they differ, but only slightly if they result in approval of the corporate agenda. CONTROL representatives financially, faulty planes etc. & ARE (Executive) – Geitner (NY Fed. – bailouts), Paulson (Goldman Sachs – bailouts), Cheney (Halliburton), Bush (Carlyle Group). In, out, in, out, contract, out, war, out, in, out, bail, out.

    “…If the US government disappeared tomorrow, you’d shat your pants”

    Straw man & false dichotomy. I implied control should be wrestled away from the corporations, not that the government should be dissolved. As it is impossible to defend something I did not say, you will have to argue that point with yourself.

    “…brain washed you into believing this is a government for the people…”

    Whatever gave you that idea. I said it should be, not it is.

    /irony?/ “WRONG! This is a government for the special interests by the special interests.”

    RIGHT! That’s what I said, so you agree.

    “Good luck with your direct democracy and changing the constitution”

    You really are not following my argument are you? I did not say it should be changed, I said the (legitimate) power rests with the states and if people want to vest it in the Federal Government they should amend the constitution to make it legitimate. That’s how the Rule of law and Constitutional Government works.

    “…which is a dead letter by the way, because either it did nothing to stop the growth of government…”

    That is the fault of the people. I did not say it has magical self sustaining properties.

    “…or it allowed the growth of government to this point…”

    Well which one is it. Either you think it is powerless or all-powerful. You can not (rationally) argue both.

    So you agree it sucks but you think we’re powerless to do anything about it, so you choose to instead attack an argument which you largely agree with but say you don’t. Fine.

  2. BmoreBadBoy says:

    #21 LDA – Ok. I’m glad we’re having this discussion.

    Your disgust is legitimate and I also am equally disgusted. I just believe yours is slightly misguided.

    All those mega corporations you mentioned are not government according to its definition. They do not have the assumed power to tax, make laws or detain. Citizens of the US are not internal to those corporations. Yes, they do have tremendous control since they have copious amounts of money. But if there was no government with the ability to tax, make laws or detain, that government would not be there to be controlled by those mega corporations. And who’s going to wrestle control of the government from the corporations?

    Should the government be for the people? Of course it should. Is it? No. Will it ever be? No. “That’s how the Rule of law and Constitutional Government works.” Yeah, right. It works the way 9 muckity-mucks dressed up in robes decides it works. It’s called “interpreting” the constitution.

    As far as I’m concerned, there is no such thing as a legitimate government. I don’t recall signing a contract or agreement or constitution with the States or Federal governments to give them any power over me. That power is assumed, and wrongfully so. Therefore, the constitution is only as powerful as the amount of people who capitulate to the government that ascribes to it.

    So yes, we agree the situation sucks. We just disagree why it sucks.

  3. T-Timmy says:

    Dallas please grow up sir. Your lack of common sense is appalling.

  4. LDA says:

    # 22 BmoreBadBoy

    O.K. Sounds very reasonable. Especially the part about being born under the current regime without agreeing to the prevailing zeitgeist.

    I thought this may end up being another unpleasant argument. I am pleasantly surprised.

    P.S. I do however believe it can be changed (am I naive? maybe).

  5. abolish_homeland_insecurity_now says:

    There ya go, Ron Paul – making sense AGAIN! Oh when will the common sense ever end!!!!

    DHS is a boondoggle agency that was created to make the American people *feel* safe while it actually *does* nothing in practice to make us safer. It just collects information on We The People, which I’m sure was it’s original intent in the first place. There are so few “terror” incidents that it hardly warrants this massive & expensive bureaucracy, that apparently can’t really prevent anything. And the reason that there are so few terror events is because terrorism has been way overblown by elements in the US and other governments to control us – it’s not that they’re discovering any plots as most of these 10th grade grads couldn’t find their ass with the proverbial flashlight and several thousand hands.

    If we were serious about US safety, we wouldn’t allow illegal immigrants to flow into this country at will, we wouldn’t be settling thousands of immigrants from Muslim countries, which are the main source of international terrorism (as Bush did and as we continue to do) and we wouldn’t be allowing things like enormous liquid natural gas tankers to be shipping from Yemen into ports like Boston.

    The entire terrorism/homeland security effort is a racket to make money and control us. That’s all it really is or was or will be. For example, I understand Michael Chertoff is one of the heaviest investors in the new scanning technology. Surprise, surprise!!!!! Let’s get rid of these agencies and go back to basic effective police work like the FBI used to be capable of (and maybe still are).

  6. BmoreBadBoy says:

    @ #24 LDA – Well, it’s been over 200 years, and what started out as a great experiment in representative democracy has crashed into a big fiery ball of social fascism. It was pretty much doomed from the start, since all government is essentially socialist when you think about it, and the leaders of said governments are essentially fascists. (I need some references…wish I had an intern or something…)

    The only way I see it changing is if everyone realizes that we are indeed slaves, and learn what true liberty really is. And that can only happen one person at a time. Just as I had my eyes opened by someone else, I can open someone else’s eyes, and she can open another’s eyes, so on and so forth.



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