Really. We should assemble a basket of goods and compare prices. Here in the States I can get most of the foods made anywhere on the planet cheaply. However, he’s a quick (albeit not entirely fair) test: how much are avocado’s (say about 8oz/220g or so) in Germany?

#60
You do realize that there is more to the problem than simply the will to build a rail system? In LA, the 710 freeway still does not connect with the 110 or 210 freeways through Pasadena because of opposition that has gone on for decades. There are huge NIMBY issues which means legal costs in addition to the cost of buying the land and oh yeah, actually building the rail. In many cities, they solved this problem by building the rail underground which for the most part isn’t feasible in LA.

#69
its the idea of the CITY. people thinking its better to live there, and cause less pollution, to have MORE services, closer shops.

Maybe in your fantasy world. However, in LA most people live in the suburbs and commute because living closer to the city is noisy, dirty, more crime, less space and more expensive housing and oh yeah, you still have to drive.

#70
RE: Bikes

Plus there is the issue you have been trying to get through to everyone: things are far more spread out here in the US. In Boston, NYC and maybe Chicago, a bike might be practical. Anywhere else it is generally not practical. It is not uncommon for people to drive 20-30 minutes to get to a store. My favorite wine shop is a 15 min drive over a 500 foot+ pass.

And dont say ALLOT. as those are the few smart rich people doing it.

Being a dual-income family or simply middle-class doesn’t make you rich. So yes, there are a LOT of people who make long commutes so that they can get more house for their $$$. But yes some people also happen to be rich who do this as well.

MOST major cities are not designed for alternative traffic, such as walking and Bikes.

In the cities where I’ve been to, they are call side-walks. Few if any cities have bike trails in parallel to sidewalks. Much of this is probably due to a lack of sufficient demand among the city folk.

The other being is the city expects people on bikes to ride them in the street. Will the amount spent justify appeasing a very small minority of people who refuse to ride their bikes on the streets?

Having said all that, I’ve lived in Germany for over 4 years and they have bike trails in parallel with sidewalks and streets. I think it’s a decent idea. HOWEVER, there is a dramatic difference in the number of people who ride a bike than we do in our country. If most people don’t desire a bike trail, then I see no reason to force everyone else to subsidize a small minority’s transportation wants.

Stores and malls are not spread across the town AS’ they used to be. They are grouped together 20 miles apart.

Those businesses probably withdrew as cities found more clever ways to tax or regulate them. So it sounds like a personal problem. Take a bus or taxi. That or have the city give businesses tax incentives to bring their store fronts back into the city.

its the idea of the CITY. people thinking its better to live there, and cause less pollution, to have MORE services, closer shops.

And dont say ALLOT. as those are the few smart rich people doing it. The Poor people TRY to live close to work. AND still you didnt answer my comment. MOST major cities are not designed for alternative traffic, such as walking and Bikes. Stores and malls are not spread across the town AS’ they used to be. They are grouped together 20 miles apart.

Frankly, I could live with Swedish style socialism where we get service in exchange for taxation.

This is “doable” when you have a much smaller population as the Swedes.

66, ECA,

YEP, most cities are not designed to be walked around, and you wonder why we use cars so much.

A LOT of people drive 45 minutes or more because they can buy a lot of house for their $$$ outside of the city.

Major distributors for FOOD/meat/goods are located 20+ miles from Consumers.. yep its true. Your meat travels from your state 2000 miles THAT WAY, gets processed, SENT to the store packaging center to be WRAPPED 1000 miles OVER THERE, then returns to your HOME STATE..
Fruit and veg, do the same thing.. Harvested, processed 100 miles away, SHIPPED to birds eye 2000 miles away just to package it, Then SHIPPED to Store distribution plants, and then BACK to your home states..and charge 3 times the price.

Not if you (the consumer) insists on buying from a local farmer / butcher or go to farmer’s markets. This may help: http://tinyurl.com/ygntb3g

67, Phydeau,

Oil will become more expensive and we will have to deal with it.

Part of that is due to the dollar losing its value a lot faster under the current administration due to having the Federal Reserve crank out dollars like crazy. And if we go to $7/gal for gasoline due to taxes, I really wish Obama would hurry up and do that soon. Anything to ensure him being a Jimmy Carter, the better.

Libertarians and other nuts who have the “you can have my Hummer when you pry my cold dead fingers from it” attitude are living in a fantasy world. Of course we already knew that.

I don’t think you can assume that just because people don’t want $7/gal gas that someone is driving a Hummer. Maybe in your fantasy world, or is this another one of your logical fallacies?

Speaking of fantasy world, has the “scientific” community proven that CO2 causes global warming (instead of the sun)?

Or that mankind’s contribution of CO2 on this planet is significant (assuming CO2 is CAUSAL)?

Something tells me you liberal alarmists (living in a fantasy world) will just label anyone questioning your “scientific” method as a denier when you have a lack of proof. Of course we already knew that.

I can see it now.
Cities not setup for Walking and bikes.
YEP, most cities are not designed to be walked around, and you wonder why we use cars so much.

Major distributors for FOOD/meat/goods are located 20+ miles from Consumers.. yep its true. Your meat travels from your state 2000 miles THAT WAY, gets processed, SENT to the store packaging center to be WRAPPED 1000 miles OVER THERE, then returns to your HOME STATE..
Fruit and veg, do the same thing.. Harvested, processed 100 miles away, SHIPPED to birds eye 2000 miles away just to package it, Then SHIPPED to Store distribution plants, and then BACK to your home states..and charge 3 times the price.

The problem for trains..They DONT GO where you want them, and they are more expensive then shipping DIRECT to where its going.
Rail shot itself in the foot long ago.
The original investors TOOK ALL their money out, after the TransUSA rail was installed.
Very little improvements have been added Since that GOLD spike was put into the ground. ALSO understand that the GOV/YOU paid for that to be done. The railroad has been subsidized ever since.
If you look at the maps of the rail lines you will see TONS of abandoned rails as well as trying to get from 1 point to another, long distance, will require you to change trains multiple times. The odds are, that if you want to travel by rail, you will go 200 miles to find a train station.

Oh how I love it when people use this stupid statement without realizing wtf they are saying in the first place.

What you try to do is take what you perceive as an intellectual high road into socialism. Ultimately, it bothers you that people don’t want to live the way that you want to live. We live in a heterogeneous society that you want everyone to live homogeneous manner. For socialists like you it’s a your way or the highway. But I get it, you socialists want to cripple this economy further to the point where people desperate for SOME positive change will falsely believe it will be at the hands of government coming to their rescue (after you guys kill off any chances for people to be self-sufficient because they won’t be able to afford anything). BRILLIANT. You liberals certainly have an agenda in trying to make this country go to socialism as quickly as possible. You break everyone’s back in the process.

60, Bac,

Which is better; a 30 minute train ride or a two hour automobile ride?

Everyone has different wants and needs. Socialists have a hard time understanding that. That being said, how much do you want to pay to have a train system that covers the entire United States for work commutes? It’s very different in the European countries where they have less land and a higher population density.

61, Bobbo,

Sorry LIEBERTARIAN but you are not an island, you are not alone, your actions are not in a vacuum.

Therefore socialism is your answer? No thank you. Using that moronic logic, you would eventually justify rationing how much steak a person is allowed to eat (due to Global Warming & Universal Health Care costs). You would probably also promote a one-child policy due to the carbon footprint each child exhales or puts out through their consumption of goods.

What EXACTLY did I misrepresent on what you said? That you guys have your priorities out of whack? If you’ve listened to your Messiah recently then you’ll probably also believe universal health care is far more important than unemployment in this country.

So instead of rationing gas to the people (like you would with health care), you’d rather tax everyone $7 / gallon for gas? THAT’s rich! Sounds like health care economics applied to gasoline.

Every solution you socialists want involves killing this country’s economy by raising taxes to ridiculous levels. You don’t care about the more immediate concerns. You only care about the majority will have to do without while you elitist socialist have your cake and eat it too.

62, Li, Bobbo believes taxing everyone a high amount is the answer to everything. He’d rather kill an entire country’s infrastructure than to take a common sense approach to finding alternatives. Somehow $7/gallon for gas is an “intelligent” man’s way to solve the greater problem.

63, Benjamin,

Raising the tax on gas to $7.00 a gallon is ridiculous in this economy. People in more rural states will not be able to afford to go to work. Who thinks that is a good idea? Also, the price of everything except wages will go up.

Just ask Bobbo. Socialists have a tendency to have an elitist mentality that their way is the best way. They really don’t care if it will kill the working person’s standard of living nor do they care if the working person can afford the common necessities of life. Hooray for socialism.

Trucks ship everything. Liberals are actively destroying our rail system and replacing them with bike trails. Without rail, everything now needs to be trucked. If you more than double diesel fuel cost, nothing moves except luxury goods.

Although, when the price of four eggs go for $100 trillion dollars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe) then a $7 dollar tax will be the least of our worries. IF the US keeps spending, that is what will happen.

#54–Guyver==almost reasonable. The LIEBERTARIAN stance, not using the liebertarian gibberish. Just the straw man switcheroo as if anyone but your normal audience of idiots would not notice. “How wasteful someone’s life is, is none of your business nor mine.”===Not so homo retardicus. You got yours, screw everyone else eh? #57-TheOne gave you a good thumping on that. Sorry LIEBERTARIAN but you are not an island, you are not alone, your actions are not in a vacuum. Your argument is one made by the one who does the damage, not by the one who suffers the trauma. RETARDICUS to the degree you actually think what you post. If you want to act like an animal, you should go live like an animal, by yourself in a cage separated from the rest of the tribe. ((Heavy analogy//off)).

What is interesting is that Americans will spend hours a day inside a car wasting time but when alternatives are proposed they whine because it does not include the automobile.

Which is better; a 30 minute train ride or a two hour automobile ride?

Neither of those ends are reflected in today’s prices.

(1) The cost of military presence in the persian gulf is not reflected in the cost producing a barrel of oil – ADD IT.

(2) Polluting the environment has been free. It is time to make it not free – ADD IT.

If you want to haul your fat republican ass to the mall in a Hummer. It should cost you double.

Until all of the trucking companies, who are already struggling, go bankrupt and our just-in-time food system fails for lack of viable alternatives. It’s not like railroads service the local groceries after all.

So, besides those minor “mass starvation” and “collapse of society” issues, sounds like a great plan!