This is a Letter to the Editor I wrote today. Is this a fair test?
I have a message for my believing friends and it’s something that believers should really listen to and think about. As a realist who doesn’t believe in God I am often challenged to open my heart and let Jesus in. I am reluctant to do so without any evidence that God exists.
I am told that when one becomes a believer that they have a personal relationship with God and the God transforms you and you become one with the Lord. So from my point of view I should be able to see the difference in the behavior of those who believe as compared to those who don’t believe. But I’m not seeing it. Especially in the latest news coming out about the sexual abuse of children in the Catholic Church.
So let me be clear and direct about this so you Catholics listen up. If there is an omnipotent God and a person or a religious group has a personal relationship with God then you wouldn’t be raping children – period! The Catholic Church would not be covering up for those priests who are raping children. Admittedly, this doesn’t prove that God doesn’t exist, but it does prove that the Catholic Church does not have a personal relationship with an omnipotent God, because if they did this sort of thing simply would not occur.As a member of the reality based community I am dedicated to believing in anything that is real. If God is real then I will believe. But how am I to determine if God is actually and truly real and which of the thousands of religions it is true one? Turning to your Bible the standard is “You will know them by their fruits.” Clearly the Catholics have failed the “fruit test” because of the pervasive raping of children and the cover up by the Vatican.
As to the rest of religions and independent Christians, Muslims, or other believers, you aren’t going to convert Atheists unless you can show us that God actually has transformed your life in a way that is observable to the reality based world. Even if God can’t be observed directly, if you claim God has changed your life then those changes should be observable in your life and in your religious group as a whole. And if these changes aren’t observable then we in the reality based community aren’t going to listen to what you have to say. If you are going to convert Atheists you are going to have to pass your “Fruit Test” to get our attention.
Considering the actions of the Catholic church,and the submitters belief, this actually seems to be a pretty solid response in a respectful manner. Which is strange for the internet.
Here I am trying to advise the peoples to create a community to act against the Terrorism and that to restore the peace in our planet. Now days the Promoters of Terrorism are mainly concentrate in the villages and are utilising the Ignorance of the Villagers. Also they are misguiding the peoples about the religious values and advices. Once I realise this, I tried to know more about the world’s Major Religions and I found that all the Major Religions in the present world are originated from one ideal belief or all are following the same fundamentals. Here I am trying to explain about it in my view. In my opinion all the Major Religions in the present world are believe in the same God. We can say ‘’YAHV’’ in Judaism, ‘’Holy Trinity ‘’ in Christianity, ‘’Allah’’ in Islam and ‘’Brahma’’ or the ‘’Thrimurthy’’ in Hinduism are the same. I can surely say that, in future all the humans will realise this truth and worship a common God. So here I am writing this to you…….. Hope you will understand this and act against the Terrorism…………………..
WTF is a “non-denominational Christian minister”? I’m one of those too, please start calling me Dr. Reverend Billy Bob III, Esq.
Perkel’s argument is equivalent to arguing that the whole concept of a police department is misguided because some cops go bad. That argument usually doesn’t make it out of Logical Fallacies 101, but Mr. Perkel apparently wished to expose himself to public ridicule.
#2, Buzz,
Everybody should know, Who’s on second.
As for Marcs position, I dunno, and probably never will .. at least it ain’t missionary!
Regards, Rob
Floyd, As far as the “good” that religion accomplishes that the secular segment “can’t even think of accomplishing”, the secular arena has been consistently hindered from trying to accomplish social good by phony godbotherers who forgot to read the parts of scripture that say to “help the poor and sick”. (there is quite a mention of it) From all my “Christian” and “conservative” friends I get the statement that providing health care to the despondent is “giving away something I worked for that others didn’t work for.” Not Christian. Sending them to the emergency room for ten times the cost, which we insured and solvent all cover, is not conservative. It is stupid. Just like religion.
Back to the “good deeds,” the new fundamentalist Christianity holds that “faith based” or community help will take care of every widow and sick starving infant. (community organizing by the likes of the elected Obama has been categorized as “socialist communism” by the religious wing-nut right, so I guess that is out) I don’t see that church help happening in the religious right south either, where church attendance is high, and the rate of unwed pregnancy , uninsured individuals, and infant mortality is the highest in the US, higher than in parts of the undeveloped world.
After you work for 30 years, then injure yourself on the job through no fault of your own, I would not count on these neighbors or godbotherers to help. I would want unemployment insurance, Social Security, and Medicaid. Evil government. Family caring for family is best, but not always possible, if you have none left.
The new “power elite” Christianity of Doug Coe and his Fellowship or Family, the church our corrupt government leaders attend, live in (C Street) and host (National Prayer Breakfast) believes in helping only the wealthy and powerful, because by their position in life, they are obviously god’s favorites. If they gained their wealth and power by cheating and murdering other human beings, that is god’s will.
If a non-elite works all his exemplary life, then falls into illness and misfortune because of the whims of fate or the unfair actions of others (privileged elites?), and has no family or local church able to take care of him and his family, that is god’s will, let ‘em die. If they have a disabled child, let him die, god’s will, non-productive entity. If an elite has a disabled child, it is god’s will that they have the millions to treat him, and he can live. Who needs insurance?
These godbothers then sell the politics that benefits only the power elite ( i.e. health policy that benefits only insurance executives making 50k per hour) to the lower class fundamentalists, whom they disdain and consider cattle fodder. These minions then vote again and again against their own interests, and for the corporate power elites who always have, and always will, screw them. And they don’t see it.
Proof definite of the venal stupidity of organized religion.
All organizations become corrupt over time and growth, and these have had a long run.
God is great, god is good.
People of personal faith are trying to be good.
Organized religion and churches are pure evil.
Who polices and regulates the churches, and the church leaders who claim every idea that pops into their head is “god’s will?” Obviously, no one, if institutionalized child rape has been protected for 1000 years. If they can get away with that, all bets with society are off. I will not trust them to either define or carry out social justice, and will not rest until they are eliminated from public influence.
The ban on religion will not come from a government proclamation or law, or silly cartoon holy war, it will come from the hearts and minds of educated human society, when we are worthy of it.