On March 16, Tea Partiers from around the country gathered (in disappointing numbers) in front of the Capitol building for their final protest against health care reform. Also in town, appropriately, was Barnum & Bailey’s actual circus.
What a frightening lack of knowledge. Other than what they got from Fox News, etc.
Those are the faces of the people I see driving on the freeway. They’re the people in my mom’s prayer group. They are the voices praising those buffoons on the radio. They’re all around us. We’re fucked.
@17 Yes, I understand there have been many revisions and I haven’t had the chance to read every version. I am 18 and just want real discussion. Jefferson and Adams disagreed on the BIG issues but they set down (for the most part) and made decisions for the American people.
@18 Thanks for grading me. I disagree with your evaluation and will leave it at that. Thanks for the link. I will read as much of it as I can tonight.
It’s been a great debate and I hope that we find the answers to our BIG problems, however, I don’t think this is the correct answer to the problem we are currently facing.
Here is a question and one of my BIG concerns about this bill. How will the government pay for the bill? Would it not be with High taxes, borrowing, printing more money, cutting payments, rationing services? Will we all not end up paying for this in a BIG way? Even if we are enrolled in the government “option” or not.
“1. 1. WILL THE PLAN RATION MEDICAL CARE?
This is what the bill says, pages 284-288, SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:
‘(ii) EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN READMISSIONS.—For purposes of clause (i), with respect to a hospital, excess readmissions shall not include readmissions for an applicable condition for which there are fewer than a minimum number (as determined by the Secretary) of discharges for such applicable condition for the applicable period and such hospital.
and, under “Definitions”:
‘‘(A) APPLICABLE CONDITION.—The term ‘applicable condition’ means, subject to subparagraph (B), a condition or procedure selected by the Secretary . . .
and:
‘‘(E) READMISSION.—The term ‘readmission’ means, in the case of an individual who is discharged from an applicable hospital, the admission of the individual to the same or another applicable hospital within a time period specified by the Secretary from the date of such discharge.
and:
‘‘(6) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, section 1878, or otherwise of— . . .
‘‘(C) the measures of readmissions . . .
EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
1. This section amends the Social Security Act
2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an “applicable [medical] condition.”
3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital.
4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted.
5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up.
6. There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.
7. The plan also allows the government to prohibit hospitals from expanding without federal permission: page 317-318.”
I am reading over the current bill and the analysis seems correct. Am I missing something.
@#3 Democracy doesn’t work… if the majority are idiots. :\
#3 – Democracy used to work but I agree, it’s irrevocably broken in this country.
#21 – “They’re all around us. We’re fucked.”
Truer words were never written.
I completely agree, we are TRULY FUCKED.
Funny people/Good sheep
I read several of the sections Morris pointed out until I got the idea. I guess his objection is that the thing appears to be set up as a managed operation. You want it unmanaged with no guidelines? I won’t give any money to private insurance companies, that’s my objection. I want a modern, civilized system where I pay for universal coverage through my taxes. If the government can’t pay for it.. I know a couple of land wars in Asia and a hundred foreign bases that could be eliminated instead. In other countries the people pay high tax rates, but not much higher, and they actually get something for it.
#6 Amen brother, I was just gonna post that.
I’ve seen plenty of progressive protesters just as clueless in cherry picked videos. BUT the difference is, that NO ONE knows what is in this bill!!
First, no one has read the “bill”; it has yet to be completed. What you are reading is not the bill that will/has been voted on. Second, this bill is projected to be over 2900 pages and, in the form you can read, has intentionally competing components. Any two people can find multiple things in this monstrosity that say competing things. This is why the whole thing needs to be scraped.
Additionally, statements like the one author of this post use “quoted at the end) only impede the debate (his real intent) and only further show their ignorance. Attacking the person making the argument does not disprove their argument and only shows your own ignorance and cowardice.
“On March 16, Tea Partiers from around the country gathered (in disappointing numbers) in front of the Capitol building for their final protest against health care reform. Also in town, appropriately, was Barnum & Bailey’s actual circus”,
#30 thatsmychin said,”NO ONE knows what is in this bill!!”
The associated point should be even IF they know precisely what is in the bill, they are voting to pass something on the FAITH that it will be changed before going into effect.
It worse than going into a Toyota dealership and they say, yes, the accelerator sticks but go ahead and buy the car. As soon as your check clears, we’ll fix it real good!
Sort of like that except there are dozens of things to be fixed in the health bill. And no warranty.
Well as an European, I must admit that the US has certainly one of the worse health system in the world, as confirmed by a friend who went there for holidays and got sick, and he words were “The USA is the worse country to get sick”. Also after like the one who said “we have the best healthcare in the world” I don’t think he ever got sick or he must be missing some parts of his brains… Well enough said, I’m happy to be European!
I really think Obama tried to find a centrist solution to healthcare. In the end it made him appear weaker. If the solutions appealed to both parties, it wouldn’t be gutted later on. These are the fringe groups you can never satisfy. They enjoy being angry and vitriol. If it wasn’t for cable news channels you would hardly know about them.
I’m for Obama’s healthcare bill despite the fact I think it is a semi-disaster.
Both parties have put us up to eyeballs in debt, but at least any kind of healthcare bill we’ll have something to show for it.
We’ll have $20 trillion in debt in just a few years — more printed currency than exists in entire world times several — I’d rather healthcare be in that mound of debt so there is at least one achievement in that pile.
I mean what’s better:
1) $20 trillion in debt with nothing to show for it.
2) $21 trillion in debt with at least some sort of crude imperfect and warted start to health care.
To me, the answer is obvious. And, just they won’t be able to give that $1 trillion to some bank, insurance company or car manufacturer that f**ked up.
#34 that pretty much sums it all up. He had the numbers to get passed whatever he wanted but wanted to be popular with everyone instead and has squandered any chance to fix what seems to arguably be the worst healthcare system in the world.
Just saying its the best doesn’t make it so.
I’m deathly afraid of having an accident or becoming ill if I travel to the US. When a 3 day hospital stay will cost me $13,000+ something is VERY wrong.
#37 HMeyers – I “sort of” agree with your point. My problem is I’d prefer a true universal healthcare program. But they can’t pass that because it would put the insurance companies out of business. But with thsi monstrosity we’ve helped fatten the insurance companies, added a trillion to our debt and all to benefit the 10% (30 million) of the population who could easily be cared for under existing Medicare programs. To do this, of course, the other 90% of the population will have to enter a rationed care system. #33 above mentions his European friend who came to the States and got sick. This bill will not help him! When my friend got sick in the UK he was in the hospital for three days and they billed him. Five pounds. Almost US$10 in those days. As a physician, I didn’t think his care was excellent but it was adequate. I once read the UK health service is the largest employer in the EU. It will seem tiny compared to what we will have in the USA. I only hope the care will be adequate.
Hi, everybody. I am european and it’s hard for me to understand that people are protesting to preserve a third-world class healthcare system.
Do you have statistics about the average IQ of republican voters?
I think what we’re seeing here isn’t a well voiced protest from the tea partiers. The tea partiers seem to me to be generally white and historically middle class who are afraid they are about to move downward on the economic scale. Like many of us they are really focused on the future success of themselves and their children, and that future is very fuzzy.
They are seeing the world that they knew and loved go away to be replaced by something scarier and more insecure. They are lashing out against change. And I’m not talking “change we can believe in” but a much bigger change in the world around us.
These people are extremely dangerous, not as individuals, because they are ripe for a Great Man to lead them back “to the way it was.” Great Men almost never lead you back to prosperity, but forward toward totalitarianism.
Another obvious point to made clear by this video is that the people in the video do not know how the current system of health care works.
Ignorance breeds fear. As mentioned in the video, the bill would provide a Harry Potter world but for most, the current system provides a Harry Potter world. It is all magic.