bobbo, int'l pastry chef and Red Baron says:

Yea, saving the a/c however it is done is an invigorating and memorable experience. In every one I have experienced, I evaluated it to see how to avoid it in the future. Not possible with a broken fuel pump, but what about that “20 feet of runway left” situation? something to be avoided as unsafe and to be planned against, or something to ignore in the “heroic” frame of mind??

So, because you survived, you say ignore the manual/the training and just land the a/c even if only 20 feet of runway will remain?

Well, If I had been in that situation, I might well conclude I fucked up and only by the will of the gods did I survive. Next time go around and land safely like the manual says.

Regarding contaminated fuel, that is “supposed to be” observable on the ground check but its easy to miss or not be indicative. I say it was your years of experience and training that when the check list did not work you played with the fuel mixture=====just like any competent high time pilot would do.

Sorry, you are no hero. Just a competent pilot doing what he has been trained to do.

A compliment in every way I can think of—just no apotheosis.

bobbo, int'l pastry chef and Red Baron says:

Thanks Bubba – as you surmise, I don’t have much/any time in twin pistons. I did google the 310 enough to read it is supposed to be able to climb out on a single engine. No access to a take-off/climb out performance chart, but 105 degrees is not unusual. You already had altitude and speed so I assumed from what little I read that a return to the airport for emergency landing “should be” possible. Sounds like you were terribly overloaded then? I’d have to know more—still, with the limited info you provide, 20 feet from failure make the return to airport sound like at minimum “an even bet” not subject to a 20 foot margin of error.

The implication of what you post is that the ops manual/(proverbial checklist) should say to never load your aircraft the way you did. So–like those high time pilots you mention who bought it===sounds like you almost did too because you DID NOT follow the checklist?

One error experts do make is thinking they can finesse a situation==and twins crashing after losing one engine is common because they are flown where a single engine shouldn’t go==especially being overloaded.

If we both take a step back==there is nothing mystical about flying, nothing magical about the “will” of the pilot involved==its all physics and engineering (maintenance), something you should professionally agree with. Interesting your hobby attitudes overtake your professional ones. Will heroics focus your telescope on some galaxy or only knowing the coordinates? Which controls in what you do for a living–imagination and luck, or preparation, training, and knowledge?

It would be “fun” to really deconstruct what happened that day but I don’t have the knowledge base in type of craft and you don’t sound like you have the objectivity (sorry!).

Yes, people who get insulted when their authority is challenged, when they are called names by people of no consequence, often are not good pilots. Too much ego. Physics and engineering don’t care about ego. Quite a jolt for those who can and do will themselves against the interests of others.

If you care, based on your superior knowledge of facts, circumstances, and aircraft==should Cessna provide more info in their performance charts, are their charts wrong, or did you do something just a little bit wrong before you did everything heroically thereafter????

MORE==since you make some point of it, I chose not to respond to your underlined material as I thought it was mostly irrelevant. But lets turn a nitpickers eye to it now.

“YOU try going around in a fully loaded 310 on a 105 degree day when you can barely get to 500 ft. in a downtown area with tall buildings and mills, then let me know how it works out. /// Well, you tell me==whats the limiting factor here? The a/c performance?? My google says the Cessna will climb out on a single engine. You post as if you cannot maintain altitude. You could be wrong and negligent, not providing all the info needed, or got some fact wrong? Were you fully loaded, or over loaded? Do the performance charts show a limitation on weight for your TO conditions? If the a/c was incapable of “going around” (sic–not accurate in an initial take-off scenario) why did you choose to take off anyway? Are you really claiming that at 500 AGL that terrain avoidance was a “real” concern?” ((It could happen at a few airports.))

As you know, and I know you know, the real expertise of an experienced pilot takes place before he gets into the cockpit. Why did you takeoff to begin with?

So–”something” is missing including easily something in my own knowledge base. I understand you may not want to take the time to go over all the details and ground school issues that are relevant.

Amusing, the more I admit to what I don’t know, the more evident it is that heroics played NO ROLE in your experience, that expertise based on experience and application of training actuality did==and with 20 feet remaining, luck too.

Good pilots don’t rely on luck, don’t take comfort from luck. They eliminate luck from the equation. Have you modified your flight planning based on this experience or are you subject to it again? If you did learn from this experience, will you need the same kind and amount of luck if the same situation happened again, or do you have a “checklist” of what to do next time?

See how “high time experienced competent” pilots should become nearly UNIFORM in their reactions to situations. Not heroes requiring luck to succeed. Merely the competent application of knowledge and training.

But – isn’t flying fun?

So–two very different issues unnecessarily being entwined==defining training, defining heroics. I think I defined training fairly well although you avoid its importance while doing not much more than evidencing it.

BubbaRay says:

Bobbo, the manual states the plane will climb, albeit at a very slow rate (<60 fpm) fully loaded at a lower density altitude than what I experienced on that day. The plane was loaded with full tanks, no luggage, and only 2 souls on board, well within weight and CG limits. The density altitude was higher than the manual states the plane will climb out on the critical engine. The manual also doesn’t take into account traffic and tall buildings in the way. Turn and bank burns altitude or airspeed as you should well know, so dodging buildings is a tricky affair. The only safe choice was an immediate landing, which I accurately judged could be safely implemented, rather than a lengthy go-around behind slower traffic or dodging structures trying to make it to Carswell Air Force Base. Also, when one engine goes, you’re not real confident about the other one lasting long enough to do much of anything, especially if it’s contaminated fuel that caused the problem.

I executed the proper maneuver with a little room to spare and avoided damaging anything.

Skydivers says:

Very cool… video