More than a decade after the attack on Columbine, the high school’s name remains a buzz word — and an infinitely flexible one.
Example: Public Broadcast Service talk-show host Tavis Smiley used the massacre as an example of violence done by Christians — a position that’s earned him criticism from PBS’s own ombudsman.
Tavis: I guess I’m trying to understand where the evidence is that suggests that all of us who happen to be Christians or enlightened in some other way need to take on Muslims here in the West.
Ali: The people who are engaged in terrorist activities look like you and me. They look like everybody else here. Major Nidal Hasan, the military guy who in November shot 13 of his colleagues and injured 32, he’s going to be on trial pretty soon, I think this week, the young man, Faisal Shahzad, in Times Square who tried to blow innocent people that he doesn’t know up, these guys are acting on conviction. Somehow, the idea got into their minds that to kill other people is a great thing to do and that they would be rewarded in the hereafter.
Tavis: But Christians do that every single day in this country.
Ali: Do they blow people up (unintelligible)?
Tavis: Yes. Oh, Christians, every day, people walk into post offices, they walk into schools, that’s what Columbine is — I could do this all day long. There are so many more examples of Christians — and I happen to be a Christian. That’s back to this notion of your idealizing Christianity in my mind, to my read. There are so many more examples, Ayaan, of Christians who do that than you could ever give me examples of Muslims who have done that inside this country, where you live and work.
#16: Ah_Yea
Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong and others of that ilk were usually incidental atheists. If they had thought it would have helped their megalomaniacal plans, they’d had Jesus on a Stick as a hood ornament on their staff cars. Religion may have been held up as a reason for conflict many times when it was truly the usual “They have stuff we want” motivation.
The problem with religion is that when you truly believe silly things, you’re well on the way of being convinced that you should DO silly things by some authority figure. Silly, heinous, inhuman, unspeakable things.
Jmrouse, it should be a requirement that before posting on someone’s comment, that you actually READ the link in the person’s comment.
My link already answered your post. Read next time first, please.
#16 Ah_Yea
I suppose if we could count all the deaths in religously motivated wars and the religous practices of our most primative ancestors, we’d find that religion or not, isn’t necessarily the decisive factor. Man’s a murderous beast. In today’s society, to be truly murderous, you need to have no compunction, no guilt, and be rational enough to not allow yourself to get caught. Basically atheism in it’s purest form, rationality distorted to it’s extreme, serving directly the dictates of the ego. Emotions aren’t just perceived hormonal imbalances, they constitute our most higly evolved instrument of perception. Life is more than just an equation, every decision has it’s emotional counterpart and effects how we se ourselves and our world. We are here to discover and defend our personal values. Religion can, but doesn’t necessarily have to be of help.
GetSmart. Wrong. Simply wrong. Show me where these Atheist killers were “incidental atheists”. Where did you get that from?
Your imagination doesn’t count.
How about this instead?
“The problem with Atheism is that when you truly believe you are the only law, you’re well on the way of being convinced that you should DO silly things because you are only accountable to yourself. Silly, heinous, inhuman, unspeakable things.”
The Columbine killers were Atheists. Atheist were responsible for more death: Stalin, Mao, and Khmer Rouge is just a small sample of the deaths caused by Atheism. We are talking eight figures here.
#14 “Waco, Ruby ridge, Timothy McVeigh”
Waco, really? When Christians start believing that David Koresh is the Messiah you can call the Branch Davidians at Waco Christians. We in the real world think that idea is ridicules.
Ruby Ridge? The FBI kills a man’s family and the guy involved gets acquitted of all charges except missing a court date. Religion had nothing to do with the case. It was more to do with blotched SWAT team tactics that we discussed earlier in another thread.
Tim McVeigh wrote a letter to claiming to be an agnostic and that he did not believe in a hell. Now that he is dead, I bet he believes in hell now.
amodedoma, Ok. That’s a good response.
It’s not religion, it’s not Atheism, it’s the character of the individual.
Excellent summary!
Wow! Lib bloggers getting desperate. Akin to a fish thrashing on the deck, gasping for oxygen.
Atheism cannot be the cause or even a contributing factor to anything because it is not an organization or belief. It is the lack of belief in the supernatural. So if I don’t believe in the tooth fairy I am in the company of dictators who kill people? You might as well say that breathing air causes all murder because all murderers breathe air… Religion doesn’t cause murders either but it does help to organize people who don’t want to think for themselves to follow an appointed leader who can wield their power as they see fit. Atheism cannot be used in this way since it doesn’t help to organize anyone and it doesn’t encourage people to give up their own thinking and power to some despot. All those examples of supposed atheists causing death are actually a good example of religious thinking. The dictators lead by being like a god on earth being the head of their own religion so yeah they might try to stomp out other religions because they want to be the only organizing factor themselves. Again atheism provides no organizing power since it is merely the lack of supernatural belief… I have heard and read plenty of historians and sociologists who talk about dictatorships and how they are like a religious movement so I know I am not saying anything new but some people here seem to have things quite backwards by ascribing attributes to atheism that really should apply to religions and religious thinking.
#20–Ah Yea==yes, I do disagree but the who killed more people argument has been blogged several times. Rational analysis devolves to rhetoric. What does “Killing in the name of xxxx” even mean? I would say that “by definition” atheists don’t kill to establish atheism==maybe to exterminate formal religions but once your universal view is non-religious that “killing in the name of” really goes away===its simply not part of the dogma.
“My point” evidently of no purchase today was that killing in the name of is a type of x = y type dogmatic thinking. It is ironic that you criticize Hitler for this faulty equation by using it yourself.
Life, and the thinking that it allows, should be more layered, complex, interactive than thinking x = y. I’d even think inherent curiosity would compel one to look deeper. Evidently, that gets lost in too many.
Keeping it THAT simple looses so much. Music is a symphony, not a kazoo.
Klebold and Harris were closer to occultist and satanist. They were Doom fanatics that lost all sense of reality just like Tavis has.
What unites religion, cults, satanism, communism, nationalists, corporatists and all the rest is that these mass killers all placed some “ism” above the value of human life.
For religion–it is God’s mercy that is above human life and we marvel at his mystery. Hitler may have killed for greater living space. Mao for the greater good. All these famous people shared the religious ethics: some things are more important than mere human life.
Atheists “tend” to think there is nothing but the current life we suffer through. Its religious “type” thinking whether by name an atheist or not that kills millions at a time.
Can we all at least agree that Tavis Smiley is an idiot?
I think Columbine was an act of MALE terrorism. As is most of it.
#25 Benjamin: “Waco, really? When Christians start believing that David Koresh is the Messiah you can call the Branch Davidians at Waco Christians. We in the real world think that idea is ridicules.”
The Davidians were Christian in much the same way as Al Qaeda and their ilk are Muslim. Same goes for the various Christian Identity militia movements and other assorted NWO-nuts.
It boils down to: 99% of the world’s population has 1% of the world’s IQ.
Tavis Smiley is obviously in the 1% group!
The difference between genius and stupidity is: genius has limits.
#34:
“The Davidians were Christian in much the same way as Al Qaeda and their ilk are Muslim.”
Except there were like, a hundred Davidians, and something like a few hundred million radical Muslims. And they have rockets.
Ah Yea and Benjamin, what part about Stalin and the others you mention (besides Adolph) being mad, power hungry COMMUNISTS escaped you?
Besides, the fact that atheists do bad things STILL don’t prove there’s a god.
When two teens ask all Christians in a classroom to stand up, and then murder the people who stand up, I think it is pretty safe to say that they are Christian haters, not Christians.
Any other tough questions, Mr. Obvious?
aslightlycrankygeek said,
When two teens ask all Christians in a classroom to stand up, and then murder the people who stand up,
That’s a new one to me. Any evidence for that ever happening?
Anyone who thinks the young men that did the shooting at Columbine were Christians has passed my test for mental incompetent.
One of those youth pointed a gun at a girl and asked her if she was a Christian and when she said yes shot and killed her.
There is not one shred of evidence that any of those young men had been in any way influenced by the teaching of Christ.
I would also add that anyone who thinks they had been most likely wouldn’t be able to tell a Christian from a Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, or atheist because they don’t know jack about the teachings of Christ.
I do think the post does show how important freedom of speech is. If the person who expressed that view hadn’t been allowed to say what they said I might not know they were less sapient then than your typical third grader.