He done blowed up real good!
I love the last part of this:
Qari Zafar, a commander of Pakistani militants, has accidentally punched his own one-way ticket [he blew himself up] to Paradise.
[...]
All you ever hear is “If you die while committing jihad, you go to paradise and get 53 or 72 or 99 virgins (or whatever today’s number is). But we never hear them say “beautiful virgins.”So we have a question about the whole virgin thing. What happens if you blow yourself up, get to Paradise and find out the reason your 99 virgins are virgins is that they’re so fat, ugly and repulsive that no one wanted them?
>> bobbo, the evangelical anti-theist said, on June
>> If we, err–YOU, can’t get the basics right then you must admit your faith doesn’t make any sense.
God’s existence is not dependent on our understanding him.
You can say exactly the same about science, too.
Take the Big Bang. There are probably more things science DOESN’T understand about the Big Bang than what it does. Does this make science bogus and dishonest?
Of course not.
There are TONS very basic things I don’t understand about the spiritual and the material worlds. It’s only honest to admit that.
Here’s a counter question for you: is it honest to definitively declare that God does NOT exist? It’s the same kind of bogus certitude the we religious people often have.
Aren’t agnostics the only truly honest people? Ironically, the ones who have questions but no definitive answers?
Wow, bobo, you are bringing up serious issues faster than I can respond to them!
I will try to come back here but I gotta get going.
Peace. Out.
#21–Greg==I take on the moniker of an anti-theist==if god exists, which I totally doubt but you can’t prove a negative, then I do not find him worthy of worship or respect.
The universe acts just as if god did not exist. There must be a reason for that, and I accept it.
God gave me my intellect and I have to assume he wants me to think the way I do. And I do. THIS bobbo will never accept the goodness of god and that being the case, all god can possibly be is a very powerful entity. Thats fine==he can just leave me alone. Being powerful does not make one worthy of being worshiped. Even being all good would only imply “respect.” This worship thing in violation of your own intellect is very worrying. Leads to all kinds of evil==like being a Muslim.
Embrace your own humanity and require god to do the same.
Or worse… virgin men. ;D
The main thing is that this raghead is gone. Who cares where he went?
72 burqa wearing virgins. How would you know that they are beautiful?
haha..this is crazy! Virgins? but fat and ugly? no way..lol..
#6
““Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
- Epicurus”
No source reveals that this is indeed Epicurus.
It is considered poor debate form to use unsourced quotes to bolster one’s argument.
“Don’t fear god,
Don’t worry about death;
What is good is easy to get, and
What is terrible is easy to endure.”
- Epicurus (“The four-part cure” of Epicurus)
That is a properly sourced quote of his. And it does show that he believes in idea of a theism, but shows no fear over it or death. Those are excellent words to live by no matter what your beliefs.
That unsourced crap is being passed around the internet by atheists hell bent (pardon the expression) on making theists look like fools.
Theists do a good job already as many (especially in the West) do not read, let alone understand, their own texts. Atheists need only become more familiar with the words of these texts to catch theists in their own folly.
Making up crap to try and trip them is not needed. The snare is already at hand.
Cursor_
# 8 – I couldn’t agree more with Animby “…being forced to live with 72 virgins for all eternity sounds a lot like hell.”
I always thought that this ‘reward’ sounded like the immature fantasy of some poor old looser who never had a decent bonk their whole lives!
#10
“If humans could fully fathom him, we couldn’t call him God, either.”
Actually God, in the christian gospel texts, makes himself very very clear. He even becomes a man to make it more clear.
He is motivated by profit. (A concept many of his followers misinterpret, but what’s new there?) He operates by two rules:
You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.
In his case it means he must love himself, and so should we all. This is a very accepted idea in psychology outside of belief. For if someone cannot love him/her self how could they love another? It makes the task much harder if not near impossible.
The second rule is:
Love your neighbour as yourself.
That means if something you do would hurt you, don’t do it to someone else. Pretty much every philosophy concurs with that. From theists to atheists.
God is a rather simple to understand person. He does things out of a need for profit and has only two rules. What is hard to understand?
The only reason why people say we cannot know the mind of a god is that way they can have an out for when they cannot explain something away. A cop out.
# 17
“is there anywhere that says the virgins are women?”
Actually the literature on states that these virgins are female and beautiful for men, and male and handsome for women. And that no one has to martyr themselves to get it. It is also non-canonical for Islam.
It also comes with eighty thousand servants and a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby.
Milk and honey, streets paved with gold, nirvana… clap trap that only humans would comprehend.
I call bullshit.
Cursor_
I always thought it would be justice if the 72 virgins were, innocent child victims of terror attacks. Then these guys\ gals would be sentenced to be child care workers for all eternity.
Lets see how many PC pundits and extremist apologist show up here… non? Not even Dorkor? I’m baffled!
#12 Faiths are not about sense but belief. You’ll never win an argument with a “religionist” coming from the logic side of things.
#28–Cursor==I welcome all criticism. To me, its not important who said what, rather the logic of what was said is important. Now, as a side issue, its “interesting” who said what when and I must admit I am enamored of the Greeks. They are a constant reminder that what it is to be human has not changed in 3000 years. My source was the internet, the first version of the logic trap I came across. I assume there are others phrased slightly differently.
Why didn’t you source your own quote?
My only point: humans should not give up their common humanity when contemplating “issues.” Receive a message from God to kill your first born?===reject it, as I know Greg would. This infantile argument from no other choice that god “should be” believed in even though he makes no sense at all will FAIL for 95% of the believers if ever put to a real test instead of mere blogging among strangers.
And that goes for anything else your “heart” and “brain” tells you is wrong. Our own humanity draws limits on god making the anti-theist position the only one that hits the middle course of what can be proven, what is logical, and what maintains our humanity.
Thus have I spoken, yea verily shall it be. ((hah, hah!)
I’ll try and explain a basic principal. If you don’t have at least the option to be to do bad things then there is no virtue nor is there any reason to hold anyone accountable for anything.
The Romans seemed to grasp the idea at least under the Republic that people should be judged based on virtue shown. They of course had their own yardstick to measure virtue.
It does seem to exceed the intellectual limits of some that life might be a time of testing and refining.
You save the wheat and burn/discard the chaff. Since this is a pillar of Judaism it is a pillar of the faiths derived from Judaism along with many faiths that have nothing to do with Judaism.
Who wants a virgin? I want a girl that knows what she’s doing.
And what do females get rewarded with? 72 male virgins? Where are all these virgins coming from?
I’m really starting to see some holes in the whole muslim storyline.
#34–do-ill==exactly. and that is why sheep are required to turn their brains off lest their own innate humanity finds god lacking. Can’t have that–must believe unconditionally==no options there.
Lets see. Why might I prefer a virgin?
Many people believe that having sex with a 14 yo or younger virgin is a cure for aids. Now, I don’t believe that, and I don’t think it makes any sense, but if you have that faith dogma, well then, you have to respect that person’s religion====right?
The virgins in question are not beautiful, but they all have really great personalities!
On a more serious note, Jews and Muslims have always been very concerned with virginity, especially in young women. Another good example is straight out of the Old Testament. When the Israelites attacked the people of Midian, Moses was angry that they returned from battle having captured the women and children alive. He then decided who would be allowed to live and who would be slaughtered. On Moses’ order, all the Midianite boys were killed, and all the Midianite women who had slept with a man were also killed. The only captives from that battle allowed to live were the virgin women, who were then divided up among the Israelites along with the livestock and other plunder.
Virgins have a special place in God’s heart, because he is apparently very concerned that women protect their vajayjays from invasion.
and so the blog slowly turns to virgins huh?
Say Pedro: any truth to the notion that several centuries of the Mayans and Aztecs sacrificing the villages prettiest virgins lead to the Mexican people being so ugly?
Would seem to have a scientific basis event he infusion of spanish blood has not yet overcome. Selma Hayak being a supreme exception.
# 28 Cursor_ said, “No source reveals that this is indeed Epicurus.
It is considered poor debate form to use unsourced quotes to bolster one’s argument.
“Don’t fear god,
Don’t worry about death…
That is a properly sourced quote of his. And it does show that he believes in idea of a theism…”
Cursor, if that is indeed your real name, I think Bobbo’s logic argument holds up by itself whether or not it’s correctly attributed. Your’s however, does not show Epicurus was a theist. I assume you mean because he says to not fear god. As a non-theist, I also tell people not to fear god. I sometimes tell them not to fear trolls, goblins and other fairytale creatures. Does this make me a Grimmist?
By the way, if you go to Google Books and search for the first line of Bobbo’s quote, you can find 30 reputable references attributing the quote to Epicurus. But, as I said, the logic argument stands whether uttered by Epi or Bobbo.