Will Wilkinson and Jonah Goldberg discuss it on Blogging Heads:

My feeling is that it’s good when it means that we put our interests above everyone else’s, but bad when it leads to unnecessary wars and economic sanctions. What do you guys think?




  1. Noam Sane says:

    I don’t know, but I do know that Jonah Goldberg possesses the intellect of a 12-year-old. So I’m not likely to watch the video. Just sayin’.

  2. Max Bell says:

    My patiotism is awesome. But it’s too good for the rest of you wankers. Happy 4th!

  3. qb says:

    A very happy 4th of July to all you Americans.

  4. gypkap says:

    #33: “If you are not proud of your country and its citizens in the general sense, you really shouldn’t be a citizen. End of story.”

    Wrong, bucko.

    If you are are a citizen and not proud of your country, it’s time to kick the jerks out of office that believe the above quote. Citizenship is all about making the country where you live a better place for everyone.

  5. B, Dog says:

    In the movie Paths of Glory Kirk Douglas quotes Samuel Johnson as saying “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
    I’m with Kirk on this one.

  6. chuck says:

    #2 – yes we do have a 4th of July in Canada. We celebrate it on July 1st – to commemorate the day we became an independent country – after we filled out the appropriate forms, had it all checked out by our lawyers, and submitted the filing fee. We got notification of independence 3 to 6 weeks later. The documents are available for public viewing at the central documents repository, during regular office hours.

  7. bobbo, telling shit from shinola says:

    #35–interglacial==THANK YOU, very much. First time I have ever gotten an answer on point.

    Course a consistent time line is not “proof.” I assume in all the letters written at the time there must be a few that state the concerns you have summarized.

    It does make sense. It is in fact the reason I have come to, using hooman psychology not history, to resolve how our liberty loving Founding Fathers could declare universal human freedom yet keep slaves.

    Yes, money/wealth the gaining and keeping thereof is the root and body of many evils.

    Again, interglacial==I will direct my attention to what you surmise and see how it may be supported/supplemented/contradicted in “the record” if it hasn’t been scrubbed already?

    Thank you.

  8. Jeanne says:

    Speaking of patriotism, new verses found in the Star Spangled Banner (from the Onion).

  9. pedro says:

    #47 Is it only now that you find that the independences of not only the US but also the Spanish colonies had to do with money? No comments!

  10. interglacial says:

    Bobbo,
    Thanks for the thanks and apologies for the paucity of information I gave with the link.
    I’m in no way a scholar of history so can’t give you any proof. Your post just reminded of an article or documentary I saw years ago about slavery and Somersett’s Case. The ties to the War of Independence was only mentioned in passing and I’ve been surprised ever since that it gets no attention.

    Just done a bit of searching and unfortunately it looks like someone has beaten you to writing a book on the subject called Slave Nation: How Slavery United The Colonies And Sparked The American Revolution.

    I almost bought it but I think I’d find it too depressing – reading some Thomas Paine would be far more personally uplifting.

  11. Greg Allen says:

    If you’re a blogger, NEVER allow ourself to be photographed with a Dr. Pepper in our hand. There’s just no overcoming that geek-factor.

  12. Greg Allen says:

    >> TThor said, on July 3rd, 2010 at 11:58 pm
    >> Patriotism is the new speak for tribalism really.

    HEALTHY patriotism is a positive national self-image. This is a good thing.

    Countries with collective inferiority complexes tend to over-compensate, project on to others, be aggressive, be hyper-sensitive, etc. (just like individuals)

    People and countries with healthy self-images are NOT jerks.

    They don’t go around bragging how they are the greatest in the world.

    They don’t go around saying how bad other countries are.

    They aren’t happy when other countries fail.

  13. pedro says:

    #50 The guy does have a dorky look. The Dr. Pepper can only makes it more obvious.

  14. MikeN says:

    Julianne Malveaux,”I don’t celebrate the Fourth of July, I read Frederick Douglass”
    but don’t you dare call her unpatriotic.

  15. Gildersleeve says:

    I’ll address the video question, which is why are people posting without watching it? It takes too long! Everyone knows that most verbal discourse contains way more words than meaning. The point of written reporting is to reduce that discourse to it’s salient points, which typically can be summed up in a sentence or perhaps two. As the Internet improves technically, it’s content becomes decreasingly relevant. We all know this so we’re skipping it. It’s easy to post 10 minutes worth of babble, but it takes brains to extract meaning from it, and writing skills to expose it. And, no one pays for these skills anymore.

    As for patriotism, well, it’s hard to be patriotic, even for a great nation such as ours (US) when the bulk of your leadership (poltical and otherwise) is SO incompetent. All of the woes we suffer today are the direct result of incompetence at all levels of western society. And we likely don’t even recognize competence when we see it. We certainly don’t reward it anymore, so nothing is likely to change in this generation.

    Patriotism will show from those who manage to find a way to overcome this.

  16. pedro says:

    #55 Kudos! Excellent dissertation.



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