A year and a half ago, we posted this video of the shooting of an unarmed, handcuffed man in the back at an Oakland BART station. The trial ended yesterday. If it was an accident and not intentional, to not know your gun from a Taser, much less be sure of what you’re holding before firing, is a level of incompetence that is beyond unacceptable.
A jury found former BART police Officer Johannes Mehserle guilty Thursday of involuntary manslaughter, concluding that he did not intend to kill train rider Oscar Grant when he shot him in the back on New Year’s Day 2009 but acted so recklessly that he showed a disregard for Grant’s life.
The verdict was an all-but-unprecedented instance of a police officer being convicted for an on-duty shooting. But it deeply disappointed Grant’s relatives, who said the video-recorded shooting was a murder and that Mehserle deserved a sentence years longer than the one he is likely to receive.
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In all, he could be sentenced to five to 14 years in prison.The jury took 6 1/2 hours over two days to decide that Mehserle was guilty of a crime, but not guilty of the other options it had been given – second-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.
Their verdict suggests they believed Mehserle when he testified that he had mistaken his pistol for his Taser as he sought to subdue the 22-year-old Grant at Fruitvale Station in Oakland following a fight on a BART train, a shooting that was captured on video by five other riders as well as a platform camera.
I wonder when the civil trial will begin?
Doesn’t “in all but unprecedented” mean the opposite of what was intended?
I’ve got about 10 remotes on my desk. Always get pissed when I use the wrong one thru lack of attentiveness. Never been stressed, but I can see that kind of mistake easily being made==so its the police dept that should be sued for insufficient training and bad methodology==ie, the civil lawsuit.
Speaking of Negligence by our Masters: heard that girl that was kidnapped as a kiddie in raised in the backyard of that pedophile got a $20 Million settlement with the State of Ca. Seems the State agreed they were negligent in failing to monitor/intercede with the pedo who was on probation.
I think that is “bad” social policy. Yes, the State is negligent almost without precedent otherwise, but getting $20MM is like playing the lotto. Kiddie Psychology is a fragile thing and rather informative that the kid was so innocent that she readily adapted to her captivity and did not seek to escape over the years as the opportunities to do so were constant.
Yes, the human “mind.” Variable.
A lot of “safety” innovations are hard to judge. Some people who would otherwise be shot will get tasered, I’m sure. A non-deadly weapon is going to get used a lot more often, so many people who would otherwise get shouted at are going to get tasered.
Football helmets never did away with concussions, for example, because they allowed players to hit each other harder. Safety equipment can provide an illusion of control that leads to more dangerous tactics.
Police training ought to stress the ability of an officer to descalate the level of force as well as when to escalate.
To the outside viewer it looks like a certain line is crossed by a suspect and any response by the officer is then justified.
A private citizen can defend themselves legally as long as their actions are proportional to the danger. Someone who is tasked with public safety ought to be held stringently accountable based on the same principles.
As a general issue this not a black and white situation, in any sense.
If this officer accidentally shot the guy it is no less objectionable than if he had done it on purpose. Training = responsibility.
Nobody is perfect, but nobody should get a free pass either.
#23–Chris==did you have waffles for breakfast, or only decide breakfast is generally a good thing if you are hungry?
Bobbo, hate to ask again… your point is?
People in Oakland just love breaking and burning stuff, if riots start, lock down the area and let them trash their own nest. Don’t risk firefighters’ lives for these animals.
I am a tv news photographer. I was there last night in Oakland. I spend most of my time behind the police, watching how exquisitely they controlled the anarchist mob. It was the most well-done bit of riot control I have seen in 32 years. The police were also extremely receptive to the legitimate news media. There are, nowadays, numerous assholes with cell phone cameras who consider themselves “media”. Fuck them.
All in all, bravo for the police work last night. I have seen many riots, and this one was extremely minor.
Of course, we know the Berkeley anarchist dipshits spearhead it all, and the black ghetto punks take the opportunity to enjoy violence and robbery.
One news crew was assaulted. A photographer, who, stupidly, parked on a “quiet” side street to set up a live shot, away from ANY police, found that the punks could find HIM.
He was hit in the head with a battery charger taken from his truck, about the size and weight of a brick. The hoodlums, about 14, ganged up on his, the woman reporter and a second cameraguy with another truck. While three or four guys punched the guys in the face, the others were sticking their hands in their pockets and taking whatever they could steal.
Fuckers.
Company policy for this station is NO PEPPER SPRAY OR TASERS OR PERSONAL “WEAPONS” allowed. The company is owned by Disney. So the crews were completely defenseless.
“A riot? Get right over there!….Defend yourselves with pepper spray? Not allowed.”
#25–Chris==really? Even on its being pointed out to you?
Ok.
Your post equivocates all over the place on each and every point. As such, it is not responsive to the the issues posed in the OT.
I “suppose” you have identified “some” of the relevant issues but you don’t CONCLUDE anything which afterall is the POINT in considering an issue.
Now, how true is that? Let me review your post once again on this point, as in good grace I assume you must have said something?:
—-Well to be fair, you “almost” make a point but it has to be filled in by the reader.
So, on one hand then on the otherhand = dithering irrelevancy or stating the obvious. Neither is good. I can’t tell if you think the officer acted correctly or not, if a crime was committed or not, what any corrective action might be, etc. IOW a complete dithering pile of irrelevancy.
Such dithering may be find as a short lead-in to show you recognize there are two sides to every issue, pro’s and con’s, but ultimately a definition position should be stated to distinguish yourself from garbage.
So, reread your post and post back if you think you actually did state anything definitive BUT try to do so on your next subject?????
#26 So civilians with cellphone cameras are a bad thing because they capture your beloved cops doing unforgivable stuff that the media turns a blind eye to? You’re a fucking idiot!
This is nothing more than an excuse for a shopping trip. The KFCs and FootLockers will get hammered from the looting. The cop was wrong but he did kill a criminal and probably did the knee grows a favor.
The first video of this shooting that I watched showed a huge crowd yelling and taunting the cops long before and right before that guy got shot. I believe that added to the stress and confusion that caused this horrible accident.
So if it were your son shot to death in the back while handcuffed and kneed on the ground by other officers you would be ok with that. Face it, the kid was black. In our area several blacks, Mexicans and Chinese have been gunned down and killed. If there had not been a video the cop would have walked like most do. I hope when one of your family is killed by a cop you’ll be as acceptable
@ robin1943
I read that article you linked to. And what I’d say to that cop is legalize drugs. Then the gangs would lose their primary source of income and disband. Also the prisons would be freed of nonviolent drug dealers and users and there would be more space for convicted violent offenders like the ex con who shot the police officer.
#31 – But my family isn’t Black, Mexican or Chinese, why worry about it?
#44–Well, Thundernuts==who’s going to wash your car, cut your grass, and clean your clothes? Don’t be so short sighted.
or as Chris might say: “You know, maybe this incident wasn’t racially motivated, but if it was, that would be a bad thing unless their were extenuating circumstances.”
Ya. What did you expect? Justice?! This is Obama’s AmeriKa! The Lunk-head libs are in power now. Or didn’t you hear?
Irregardless, cops ALWAYS skate by when there is no evidence – and even when there IS!
—-So if it were your son shot to death in the back while handcuffed and kneed on the ground by other officers you would be ok with that. —
Way to ignore what’s actually happening.
If your argument is that the current actions of these looting gangs are a rational response to the injustice that happened, I hope you own one of the businesses that are looted, and I hope your car gets burned. You should be ok with it….otherwise by your logic, you support police brutality. And don’t you DARE call for police protection. But you’d be the first to scream for help, I’m sure.
I guess liberals are right after all. cops are corrupt and violent, and the only way to keep them on the straight and level is remind them that the public does NOT trust them, so they better be on their best behavior.
This whole “buddy buddy cop is on your side” crap must end, they’re taking advantage of us.
Bobbo,
Wow, you are a really nasty and disingenuous person. First you accuse me of not having a point at #28 and then paint me as a racist with a quote I NEVER SAID at #35. What is that about?
You attack people personally all the time instead of going after their ideas. This doesn’t make me angry because only a weak and passive-aggressive person acts as you do.
Let me break it down into really simple terms for you:
In this specific case, even if the cop was planning to use his taser rather than his gun that looks excessive to me. The guy did not appear to be resisting and was in handcuffs anyway.
Shooting somebody in those circumstances is clearly illegal.
Moving to the general issue of the use of force by police against citizens:
Cops aren’t all bad, but the shared variable in these cases is that the police response is wildly disproportionate to the danger they/society face. Because they receive training and self select for the job, officers should be held STRICTLY accountable for excessive use of force.
I find tasers deeply troubling. They make the barrier to an officer using a projectile weapon much lower. Most police will go their entire career without shooting somebody with a gun. If you give them something that looks and feels like a gun and give the okay to use it in many more situations… I think it models a behavior and will lead to more shootings.
Is that simple enough for you?
Bobbo,
Oh, and the idea that people respond to safety innovations with more dangerous behavior is not a new or complex idea.
“Why Things Bite Back” by Edward Tenner has a bunch of good examples of this. He shows that safety equipment often changes the type danger faced rather than decreasing the level of danger.