The era of antibiotics is coming to a close. In just a couple of generations, what once appeared to be miracle medicines have been beaten into ineffectiveness by the bacteria they were designed to knock out. Once, scientists hailed the end of infectious diseases. Now, the post-antibiotic apocalypse is within sight.
Hyperbole? Unfortunately not. The highly serious journal Lancet Infectious Diseases yesterday posed the question itself over a paper revealing the rapid spread of multi-drug-resistant bacteria. “Is this the end of antibiotics?” it asked.
Doctors and scientists have not been complacent, but the paper by Professor Tim Walsh and colleagues takes the anxiety to a new level. Last September, Walsh published details of a gene he had discovered, called NDM 1, which passes easily between types of bacteria called enterobacteriaceae such as E. coli and Klebsiella pneumoniae and makes them resistant to almost all of the powerful, last-line group of antibiotics called carbapenems. Yesterday’s paper revealed that NDM 1 is widespread in India and has arrived here as a result of global travel and medical tourism for, among other things, transplants, pregnancy care and cosmetic surgery.
Pretty scary. First I’ve heard about NDM 1.
Found by Gasparrini.
@20
I’m not convinced on your first point. The constant use of antibiotics will still produce a resistant strain of bacteria over time.
Your second point is interesting- that the over use of of these pharmaceuticals will suppress the natural immune system. You may be on to something, but people go to the doctor because their immune system could not fight it off in the first place. Thus the need for antibiotics.
You are correct that most people do not know how to eat properly or how to take vitamins. This more then anything may be the cause for a weak immune system
I wonder if not knowing how to eat correctly or how to take vitamins is also the reason why people die when piano’s are dropped on them from 100 feet up?
Is it physics or the cult of vitamins?
Is it genetics/biology or the cult of vitamins.
Silly Hoomans. The Soup will prevail.
#21
Bool..
The trick with the first one is we use the SAME antibiotics for to long. There are ONLY a few designed for certain/specific Ailments created. ALL based on the 1 format. If there 10 DIFFERENT Formats for treating something and ALL 10 worked, then rotate them around, Never the same format.
AS it is..we use the same format, for EVERYONE, for a long/short time period. The Bug has no choice but to adapt. If there are 10 different ways to ADAPT, that is hard to do. AND while its trying to figure out the patterns, we are adding and removing SOME of the formats. WE are not looking for the PERFECT FIX/solution. ONLY ALL of the ways that work. BEFORE it adapts and changes.
If we take 1 step at a time, and it ADAPTS to all or MANY format, we are creating a BOMB. A fun little thing, that MAY require us to Kill our Whole immune system to get rid of it, and as we do, we are subject to OTHER bugs. Sounds failure.
Bobbo the piano didn’t kill them, gravity did.
Buckle up and vote for Sarah…..2012…..here we come! Well whoever is left.
# 10 bobbo, “The doc already gets to charge for an office visit, so I don’t get it.”
This presumes the reason for prescribing poorly is financial. In truth, it’s usually because the patient demands treatment and the doctor gives in due to time constraints or just to keep a patient happy. I admit, when I was in office practice, to giving in a few times. I started out giving placebos (my favorite was paracetamol – Tylenol by it’s international name). I was having lunch with my lawyer one day and he explained using placebos put me at higher exposure than practicing bad medicine.
By the way: I blame a lot of the resistance problem (in the US) on Mexico. You don’t feel well, walk into any pharmacy south of the border and they’ll give you any antibiotic you want. Hell, they’ll even shoot you up if it’s a parenteral medicine. And they seldom go for old line antibiotics, they go straight for the top shelf stuff. But those are also expensive. So they sell the patient a two day supply instead of the needed 7 to 10 days. This encourages the development of resistant bugs. Happens just like that in most of the developing world.
ECA – I don’t have time to teach you about the immune system or water soluble vitamin storage/excretion or even how different antibiotic actually work. I’ll just say you are so, so off base – I seriously broke out in laughter reading your posts. Thanks for brightening my morning!
Animby==ok, you got me on that one. I was going for too simple minded greed, and leaped right over lazy which actually ties right back into greed.
Imagine taking “THE TIME” to educate a patient on why anti-biotics won’t work? Why you would see 2-3 fewer patients a day actually doing your job==or setting up your nurse to do it for you.
Yep. Had the best GP in town as my doc. Had to get a mandatory physical for my job. Being “incredibly healthy” as I am, this was a freebie for him but I generally have good “personal relationships” with most people I interact with. YES, its fake and insincere on my part, but it works. So I pushed it. The good doc was on his regular pattern: how much does your normal bowel movement weigh? “I don’t know, I’ve never weighed it.” Then he said “Estimate it.” So I said, about the same as four hot dogs. Seemed to satisfy him inbetween the good laughter. At the end of our 10 minute “extended evaluation” he asked me if I had any questions. “Not with your hand on the door knob.” He chuckled again in that Dr Welby manner as he left the room. My mother died from that kind of caring interaction.
So, not wanting to take the time to do your job with high school drop outs and other welfare trash is quite understandable. And if it leads to “a world without antibiotics” well:
I’ve got mine, screw you.
#26,
Anim,
Thanks, I try real hard.
But I have seen the information and dialog, and I dont think you could explain it any better.
I will give you one better.
In all prescriptions you are expecting the BODY to help you. The first time an infection happens, this is probably true. BUT after a few times, it notices something. THAT the human ASSISTED and MAYBE burned out something faster then the body wanted. SO you think you will give the SAME drug. The body THINKS you are going to fix it, but does not want to BURN something out, or cause OTHER damage. So it shuts receptors OFF or limits them.
I will point out that we have survived MALE medical society for along time from LEACHES and BACK to leaches. Our bodies are SMART, and react to many things. You cant even See most of whats happening inside the body. but you KNOW how it is SUPPOSED to work. But thats like a NEW computer Mechanic on your car. ITS SUPPOSED TO DO THIS, but it aint doing it the way I KNOW it should. it has to be in this LINE of relays/sensors.. When you ask an OLD mechanic he can give you 3 ways something could happen, and look/listen at each point and Tell which is not working.
when you reach godhood, tell me. Then I can believe Everything you say. Otherwise enjoy my weirdness and my thoughts, and MAYBE think about them.
Say ECA==reading your post, and rereading mine, seems we are making the same “over generality:” assuming too much intentionality?
Its telling that great love/hostility can be generated by generalities that actually don’t exist if you take the time to drill down to more specific examples.
Not done as often as it should be.
We are but Stupid Hoomans.
When you can present peer-reviewed papers showing that humans in general gather resistance to continued use of an antibiotic, then there’s something to debate, CAPITAL guy.
Until then, there is nothing to debate as you are just making unsupported assumptions with anecdotal and non-causal evidence. Just like the sad anti-vaccination people do.
If you were stating more along the lines that antibiotics seem to change our intestinal and other flora and thus cause issues later on, I’d be more inclined to listen, but that also hasn’t been shown to be true for standard humans.
To a large degree, it appears antibiotics have been misused by doctors and patients causing larger pools of mutations to be available for resistance.
It’s far easier for antibiotics to work on a population when only 5-10% of them are actively using them. When it gets upwards of 20-30% there is a larger and larger likelihood that resistance on the bacterial side will develop, which is what we’ve been seeing. That’s ignoring any coming from foodstuffs and water runoff from farms.
There is also the problem that people have been trained to go get antibiotics at the slightest sniffle, instead of letting things run their course for a while. I think this is something that doctors are primarily at fault about — they obviously want to catch major issues early, but they historically don’t differentiate between major and minor infections. This came from the beginnings of physiology where it was very likely you’d die from simple infections only because we didn’t know how to treat them adequately.
I like the old adage that “less is more.” It also helps when people actually rest instead of grinding themselves into the ground while sick.
Bo,
we get along, we debate, and dont get to Stupid about it.
We both love a good laugh.
MOSt of pharmacology is THAT IT WORKS.
They can guess whats happening inside the body.
They cant tell you WHY Natural Aspirin works better then the stuff on the shelf.
And doctors have a problem, a BIG ONE. they can NOT recommend an alternative that has NOT been validate by Science. And they dont check many of the OLD herbals, WHERE MANY of these drugs come from, only the synthesized versions.
They CANT say anything about nutrition, except the 2-7 day seminar they had. MOST could tell you if you were getting REAL food, EQUAL to what was 50+ years ago. Few have looked at the interactions of your FOOD, vitamins, herbals, Drugs. WE are OMNIVORES. we used to Browse and eat what we found. We got our Nutrition as we wondered and CRAVED for certain foods.
But as MAN KIND has done for many years, “we dont know how to kill the 1 bug in your yard, we have to KILL THEM ALL”, we have to get away from this attitude, esp. with Medical. We need drugs that HELp the body work, to replace the Nutrients/proteins/minerals/amino acids/.. our body USES to fight disease/germs/…
jIM,
There are a few things I said..
1. MORE then 1 drug to deal with the problems..ALTERNATIVE ways..not every doctor treating Everything with the same antibiotics.
This goes with your thought of to many doctors scribing Antibiotics.
2. If you were stating more along the lines that antibiotics seem to change our intestinal and other flora and thus cause issues later on.
I can go farther. That our system creates the chemicals it deems to use to fight something. WE intervene and ADD to the fighting power. IN SO DOING, the body EITHER learns that WE can handle it, and STOPS fighting OR the body has released it LIMITED supplies to deal with the problem and it CANT help, OR we burn out the chemicals by having the body produce them and it cant produce any more, or we Saturate the body so hard and heavy, we WIPE out most of the defenders and their ability to ASSIST.
Have you heard of 5HTP? (Hydro tryptophan) its a wonderful herbal. GREAT for those with long term pain. Any pain that takes awhile to go away the body has been releaseing its own chemicals to protect you. After a time, they CAN run low in your system. This helps your body REPLACE those needed chemicals.
I pointed out to a person. He was spraying his yard with insecticide. That when he killed ALL his known PESTS, he creates a EMPTY area. And that AREA seems mighty nice to other bugs..from OTHER yards.
I cant say for you or anyone. But to many submit without trying, either the doctor or the patient. Docs cant suggest a Supplement that could help. Patients expect the DOC to help.
I will give you a little personal history, since you have some background…
I have nail patella syndrome.
Born with both legs behind me.
12 years of surgery.
AS a child, you DONT know what normal IS. You live your days, and if not TO MUCH of a difficulty, you never get UNDERSTOOD/diagnosed. Iv been a LONG term pain person. Let me suggest that SOMEONE learn to read the mind and body. AS I know the doctors cant. asking a child if they in pain, when their WHOLE body is fighting to COVER pain, is like asking a DOG to bark. the kid isnt felling much of anything.
I dont need to tell the rest, lets just say its WEIRDER. If you wish to take the time, look something up. its called companion plants. its something nature does.
ECA==I think you are thinking there is ONE solution for a whole continuum of different issues.
I agree “some” human conditions would be helped/cured/avoided by a stronger immune system, but other conditions not. Some conditions do better with positive mental attitude, other not. Some people need a little, others a lot, others none.
WE AREN’T ALL THE SAME. Our body chemistries offer a range to outright different depending on the issue and depending on how the issue/solution is defined.
But still, you are being too general. Get specific. Should every cold be treated with Vit C? Linus thought so along with practically everything else==yet some people are allergic to any extra Vit C in their system==and so forth.
It would be nice if we were biologically all the same, but we are not so well designed. Exactly why some of us “should” survive the coming lack of antibiotics.
Pro’s and Con’s to every issue/solution.
Aint Life Grand?
Bo,
thats the problem..
There are NOT enough different formats of Antibiotics for Each use. Many focus on 1 area to heal, and there is only 1 drug created at a time. On general antibiotics there are a few but NEW forms wont be created until about the time these stop working. AND then cost TONS of money.
depending on the drug, there HAS to be a few other ways to defeat some of these problems Without resorting to killing off the whole system, then trying to rebuild it.
people are susceptible to many problems when they quit antibiotics. I believe its better to Assist the body create what is needed. And part of that problem is our food practices.
Our diets shouldnt need TONS of supplements to get the extra protections we need.
Bo, go look up Amino acids and what they do. Then try to figure out where they are in our diets.
Well, ECA, I have to admit I’ve never actually treated NPS – it’s pretty rare. I hope for your sake that you haven’t let your herbal and nature inclinations overrule the medical profession. NPS has a nasty association with kidney problems and glaucoma and some other unpleasantries. Since you’re ill, I won;t oick on you rightnow. I will say this, though: there is no such thing as “natural” aspirin. It is a completely synthetic drug first synthesized in the mid 1800s. Yes, I know you can boil up lots of white willow bark and get some of the same chemicals (salicin and linoleic acid) but that’s not aspirin. I know it works okay to relieve fevers and some minor pains and if that works for you, outstanding. Not everyone, though, has access to a willow tree.
#27 Bobbo – Yes and no. You’re right. It comes down to greed in a fashion. But I wasn’t suggesting that doctors are too lazy to educate the patients. If a patient comes to you with a problem, they get really pissed off if you don’t do something for them. If you have a nasty cold and go to the doc and pay your money, you don’t want to hear, wait a few days and you’ll feel better. There’s an old saying: Got a cold? Just wait and it’ll go away on it’s own in a week or a week and a half. But with some miracle medicines and the best medical treatment we can get rid of it in only 7 to 10 days!
I’m in a luxury position where I can send someone away with just advice. I don’t charge my patients. But a doc in private practice has a nut to meet (rent, staff, etc) and he’s not going to meet it if he sends too many patients away angry.
ECA
You seem to be talking in circles. And your screaming CAPS lease me baffled. Maybe you have a point, I can’t tell any more. Do you have any specific evidence to support your argument?
WOW!
What a bunch of ill informed nut jobs!
Case #1: A Brigham-Young Clinical Study Proves Silver Kills MRSA – In this study, conducted quietly in October 2006 at the Department of Microbiology/Molecular Biology of Brigham-Young University, and published in the journal Current Science, Vol. 91, No. 7, October 10, 2006, it was found that a number of the antibiotic drugs which formerly killed MDR (multiple drug-resistant) pathogens such as MRSA could actually be restored to full efficacy against the deadly pathogens, but only if a liquid silver solution similar to colloidal silver was used in conjunction with the drug!
The researchers wrote:
“Silver–Water–Dispersion™ solution has been shown as an effective antibiotic against many Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) and multiple drug-resistant (MDR) strains (Escherichia coli, Pseudomonas aeruginosa). As high level acquired resistance to conventional antibiotics is frequent, it seems reasonable to use combination therapy in order to achieve bactericidal synergism. Active silver solutions have shown marked activity against proven bacterial-resistant strains. Hence, a range of antibiotics were tested with Silver–Water Dispersion™ solution to determine antagonism, additive and synergistic effects against a panel of microbial strains… It is clear that the combination will allow a more complete clearing of the pathological organism.”
In short, what the researchers found is that when they used the liquid silver solution in conjunction with the antibiotic drugs that had previously lost their effectiveness against MRSA and other deadly super pathogens, the antibiotics began to work again. The synergism between silver and the antibiotic drugs brought the deadly pathogens back under control. Since the antibiotic drugs had previously lost their effectiveness against the super pathogens, this clearly demonstrates that the silver was the deciding factor in the deaths of the deadly pathogens!
Medical Bureaucrats Choose to Protect Drug Company Profits Over Saving Human Lives!
Unfortunately, the medical bureaucrats in the FDA and other agencies have been working on behalf of the major pharmaceutical companies to keep a heavy lid on this potentially life-saving information. That’s right. They have chosen to put pharmaceutical company profits over the saving of human life! How? By passing legislation that prevents distributors of electrically generated colloidal silver products from telling their customers exactly what silver is good for, and how to use it for maximum healing benefit!
NEXT
Silver chloride is the substance responsible for the reports of Argyria.
Neither Colloidal or Ionic Silver are responsible for this condition.
Safety Information Related to Nanoscalar-Oligodynamic Silver Ions
http://natural-immunogenics.com/pdf/SS-White%20Technical%20Paper%20002-SafetyInformation-01-23-033.pdf
Abstract:
3. e-Medicine Journal, November 2, 2001; Number 11
a. “Argyria results from prolonged contact to or ingestion of silver salts.
It produces a gray to gray-black staining of skin and mucous membranes produced by silver deposition. Silver may be deposited in the skin either from industrial exposure or as a result of medications containing silver salts.”
Neither Colloidal or Ionic Silver contain any salts if made properly.
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)/IRIS CASRN 7440-22-4 (It should be noted that the individuals tested in these case studies are members of a subpopulation of unhealthy adults.)
10 ppm for Adult:
a.) 7 teaspoons can be taken a day for 70 years in accordance with the reference dose.
b.) 19 teaspoons can be taken a day for 70 years while remaining under the critical dose of 25 grams in a lifetime.
According to the EPA Dietary Silver Intake (10 ppm) – (LOAEL) lowest-observed-adverse-effect-level
a. Taking 38 tspn daily of SS for 35 years falls below LOAEL threshold for an adult.
b. Taking 76 tspn daily of SS for 17 years falls below LOAEL threshold for an adult.
c. Taking 170 tspn daily of SS for 8 years falls below LOAEL threshold for an adult.
d. Taking 304 tspn daily of SS for 4 years falls below LOAEL threshold for an adult.
e. Taking 608 tspn daily of SS for 2 years falls below LOAEL threshold for an adult.
f. Taking 200 Tbspn daily of SS for 2 years falls below LOAEL threshold for an adult.
g. Taking ¾ gallon daily of SS for 2 years falls below LOAEL threshold for an adult.
(Colloidal) Ionic Silver for the health of your family, pets, plants and home.
Don’t be fooled by negative propaganda or misrepresentations. If you want to see dangerous, look here:
http://vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/prescription-drug-side-effects.htm
This is just an excuse for gene therapy and designer babies for those who can afford it and more (mandatory) vaccination for the rest.
#35–Animby==I couldn’t DISAGREE more, well, actually I “could.” I’m back to remembering in my pre-med days why I decided not to become a doc: I don’t like sick people. The knowledge and science and job freedom a typical doc has is very attractive = but dealing with dumb people who are sick is the norm, not like “Royal Pains” at all.
The first 50 times you take 3-5 minutes to explain why antibiotics don’t work for colds may be all that can be expected, but the second 50? the 5th 50?= and so on. “BORING!” is what it comes down to.
I’ve been to a doc about 3 times in my life, but I can’t imagine “demanding” any specific course of treatment. I can’t imagine getting upset after being informed of the science behind a “yes, I’ve confirmed you have the common cold. Drink fluids, take some Vit C, a zinc throat lozenges, and expect these symptoms for 3-5 days. Any changes, come back.”
What you “do” for these patients is EDUCATE them which does take more time and also empowers them to take care of themselves in the future. What you are unintentionally but not surprisingly doing is keeping yourself at the go to guy, the keeper of secret magic, the head shaman.
Would you do surgery for the same reason? No, but you will make antibiotics drug resistant? Like I said, 8 years education and training, an oath, a duty, your own professional respect, and you give it away evidently with lingering justification?
Something is missing.
Course by “you” I mean the docs who do. Actually, like everyone else, I harbor too much respect for docs. Absent your own admission, I would have accepted that giving anti-biotics for colds was an urban myth.
Ha, ha. Yes, still getting more cynical the longer I live.