Over the weekend, President Obama did something that all American presidents are called upon to do. Defend the Constitution of the United States.
One of those tenets is Freedom of Religion. Not amend section A: popular religion [this week] only.
It’s how and why I feel free to tell folks I’m an atheist – or introduce someone in my family as a student of Buddhism – or note in the course of a conversation about San Antonito Chapel down the road that most of my neighbors are Catholics.
But, right-wing nutballs and the proto-fascists who infest the Tea Party wing of the Republican Party go crap out of their mind if Christian godliness and morality ain’t the only way endorsed to fly straight to heaven. Much less catch a tax break from the IRS.
So, combine all the hypocrisy into one big ball of cigar-snot and mealymouthed punditry – and you get this weekend’s tempest in a teabag.
Here’s a copy of the dangerous sedition uttered by Obama.
I’m not getting into cutting and pasting and commenting line-by-line because, frankly, it’s just the usual straight-up rhetoric required of any official who’s trying to explain our Constitution to people who don’t think it’s worth defending. The whole point of having a standard by which to govern a nation is that it is a standard to be upheld – not amended every time someone asks a hard question or a tough challenge comes along.
Our Founding Fathers realized that and fought and died for it. Now, because some terrorist gangsters come along and say our standards are worthless – a certain portion of our population is willing to prove them correct.
If Obama will produce his birth certificate, perhaps a deal can be made on the mosque.
#108 for the mega-win!
Muslims build Mosque next to 9/11 site.
Muslim gay bar is built next to Mosque!
LOL … a classic!
To me it all boils down to one question: Is the U. S. a free country, or not?
Exactly. the fact is that only in America could someone build a mosque near a place like Ground Zero. That’s why we are special. That’s why we are BETTER THAN THOSE WHO OPPOSE US.
The moment we use their tactics and beliefs we are the same as they are, and the only thing giving us right is might. That is not America.
You people who “believe” in the 1st amendment in theory but not in practive sicken me. Where is your spine? Did the terrorosts truly win? They do a few acts and freedom disappears.
Some say “most Muslims are peace loving people who want the same freedom as anyone else.” That admits that some Muslims are not that way: ie the Ayatollas/Leaders of the sheep who want to impose their religion on other people by any means possible–like building Mosque’s in target countries while not allow non-Muslim churches to be built in their own countries.
Lots of Muslim Terrorists’ names are on the “No Fly List” and on Obama’s Kill on Sight without Arrest List because it is in the Nat Security of the USA.
But all those same folks should be allowed to build a Mosque ((anywhere in the USA, not just Ground Zero)) and that is ok by Freedom loving people?
You all make fun of “Zero Tolerance” stories and then show the same absolutist/can’t deal with ambiguity or conflicting values mentality yourself on this issue.
What “value” is really being exhibited when you welcome an anti-democratic/freedom ideology into your country?
Lets all just “hope”/and not do anything unpleasant, to protect our liberty.
#124
Your entire argument is specious. This has nothing to do with rights has everything to do with tact and tactics. Technically, it is the right of the KKK to march down the streets of Harlem and yet no sane person would think this would be a good idea. Technically, the President has the right to say that the leader of Iran is a bag of shit. Just because you have the right to do something does not mean it is tactful or tactically sound.
While *you* might think that putting a Mosque near ground zero would be symbolic of freedom, the Muslim world would view it very differently. The would see it as an insult to us (as would most of the world) and would show us to be spineless. It will not help fight Islamic extremism. It will not help in any “healing” process. It will not help the President’s party get re-elected. There is just no good that comes from putting a Mosque there and there is plenty of bad.
Muslims *also* have a right to put a Mosque somewhere else. I suggest they avail themselves of that right instead of pushing to have a Mosque at ground zero.
#123
We are also a country of self-governance. Freedom does not mean that you necessarily get to do whatever you want whenever you want. We are still a country of laws.
While Muslims absolutely have the right to put a Mosque on ground zero, I think doing so would be in incredibly poor taste and does not serve the majority of the community. It is not like there are no Mosques in Manhattan or in the greater NY area. There are plenty of other places to build Mosque. The only reason for choosing ground zero is to thumb their nose at the US. IMO, the smart choice is not to build anything related to any religion on ground zero and let the Muslims build a Mosque somewhere else.
Thomas–the relevant issue is not what anyone might think about the “taste” or sensitivities of putting a Mosque at ground zero. The important issue is whether or not the USA should allow a fascist form of government free access to our society because it has a religious component to it.
No group of people should be allowed in the USA who imprison their women in cloth from head to foot or who support killing anyone who defames their group. We all knew in grade school you do not let bullies have their way–you stand up to them, or rat them out to the principal or the coach as per your comfort level. What you DID NOT DO is invite the bully into the bathroom to see how much lunch money you had.
To early to raise the issue? Ok. Lets wait until Muslims are 30% of the population and they are fighting for their rights to have Sharia law imposed on everyone.
Thomas==just because it is so glaringly WRONG:
“We are also a country of self-governance.” /// Thats not what self governance refers to.
“Freedom does not mean that you necessarily get to do whatever you want whenever you want. We are still a country of laws.” ” /// Thats exactly what freedom means, subject to the small print that has no application here. What the frick are you talking about??? FREEDOM exactly means one person’s actions being an affront to another group. Its the taste and the sensitivities of the group acting on their freedom that expresses freedom==not the self imposed censorship you confuse it with.
So bobbo, you are against all mosques?
Iman Obama, first anti-American president of the United States, has back off supporting the mosque too overtly.
Yet we have no retraction of his fearless support of the first Amendment, now that he has wimped out.
Why?
/Tangent left
just ran across a rather interesting article: “The Purpose Behind Engineered Economic Collapse”
-s
#130–Mike==I’m not against buildings, but rather what fills them up.
Its really no different than the Communist Party from a few decades ago or what it looks like it is turning into now: a governmental system that wants to take our FREEDOM away. It does not recognize individual rights. It wants to subjugate us all and control what we do: on our knees 4 times a day.
If the commies tried to do this, we would not accept it. But slap a religion to it and the dumb ass religious people get all slap happy thinking Islam worhsips the same god they do so everything will eventually work out.
Maybe it will. But maybe it won’t. Make the a-holes sign a loyalty oath and as long as the religion “back home” won’t allow non Muslim churches to be built then they don’t get to either until they adopt a bible/Koran that excludes the offending passages.
Silly me, I take madmen at their word.
#129
Self-governance means that localities have authority to impose order even if that order has limits. You do not have a right to put a church wherever you wish. For example, you do not have the right to put a church in the middle of a freeway. Freedom of speech and religion has boundaries. Thus, while you do have the right to make statements with which many disagree, you cannot for example make statements about people that are patently false. You cannot set off air horns at midnight in a residential neighborhood. Freedom, or more specifically liberty, does not imply that you are permitted to piss off anyone you wish in any manner you wish. You may have freedom of choice, but you are not free from consequence.
Thomas–again glaringly WRONG. You say: “You do not have a right to put a church wherever you wish.” /// The issue you can’t focus on for some reason is that you do have a right to put a Muslim church wherever churches are allowed to be.
Ain’t FREEDOM a bitch? Evidently, so is spotting the subject of a paragraph?
133, Bobbo,
I understand the point you’re trying to make, but communism is atheistic.
135, Bobbo,
You’re both talking about zoning so the both of you are arguing while agreeing with each other.
Ha, ha. McGuyver–if you understand what I am clearly stating, why don’t you post like you do?
If the commies adopted the Muslim Religion and started building Mosques in the USA with financial ties back to Moscow with secret agents going back and forth to the Mosques and recruting Russian born US citizens to join their religion, then could you post on point?
Constitutional questions always arise in a context. The context here is NOT a zoning issue but rather the application of constitutional rights in a zoning context.
I’ll believe you understand my point when you post as if you do.
#134
You do not have a right to put a church wherever you wish
Once again you are off in left field. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RIGHTS. Yes, Muslims absolutely have a right to put a church there IF zoning allows for it and absolutely it is an awful idea. It should be noted that it is ALSO well within NYC’s right to change the zoning to not allow any church in that area. The only thing that cannot do is to disallow Muslim mosques but allow churches from other religions.
If Mosque Triumphant is to be erected at Ground Zero, it should be called The Obama house.
He should get the credit where credit is due.
We should have a poll.