A ‘prescient’ warning to Boeing on 787 trouble – The Seattle Times: In a late January appearance at Seattle University, Boeing Commercial Airplanes Chief Jim Albaugh talked about the lessons learned from the disastrous three years of delays on the 787 Dreamliner.
One bracing lesson that Albaugh was unusually candid about: the 787′s global outsourcing strategy — specifically intended to slash Boeing’s costs — backfired completely.
“We spent a lot more money in trying to recover than we ever would have spent if we’d tried to keep the key technologies closer to home”…
…at least one senior technical engineer within Boeing predicted the outcome of the extensive outsourcing strategy with remarkable foresight a decade ago.
Nobody – your post reminded me of a line from Armageddon: “…a thing with 270,000 loose parts that was built by the lowest bidder.”
“…at least one senior technical engineer within Boeing predicted the outcome of the extensive outsourcing strategy with remarkable foresight a decade ago.”
And I take it that was the only engineer who lost his job, right?
The 787 is a fascinating history of the specifications of the product getting away from the inception.
In the Airbus case the idea was to split things up from the get go. Compound the problems of the 787 and add shipping hassles.
Whether its a plane, a car or software feature creep happens. (Software is the hardest to maintain control of because every busybody with an agenda thinks it can do anything because its not bound by the laws of physics. [see The Mythical Man Month by Frederick P. Brooks, Jr.] Those ass-hat managers can take a project and turn it into a career.
At least with hardware you can detect fairly easily whether it works or not because the pieces fit or they don’t.
That was the point behind the development of the Pontiac Fiero which was intended to prove the viability of just-in-time provisioning.
The pieces all fit and could be made on time to be assembled at a plant to deliver a car.
If you are able to maintain strict quality control, you can manufacture anything anywhere and assemble it.
Good fuckin’ luck…
The assembly is also dependent on getting the right pieces coming together at the right time, and that’s the part everybody’s in a tizzy about.
If your parts are coming from all over the map, the possibility of a screw up just getting the parts through the transportation logistics increases by an order of magnitude per assembly.
Its less of a problem with ship building, like at the Arendal Yards in Gothenburg.
You can’t really assemble a ship without a keel and a hull and you don’t want to even think about moving a partially assembled ship. (It can’t float.
Ship fitting, assembly of the parts of ships, happens in close proximity to the shipyards in towns like Gothenburg or Newport or (Google them yourself but there’s some near Vladivostok, some in Japan, Korea, China, some on the west coast.)
Two different companies in two different countries, only thing in common – both making airplanes. Golden rule of comparing anything, you are never comparing like with like. Truth is, they have both made major cock-ups – but for different reasons. So having dealt with that, what can we learn. The one thing they have in common is crap management – you know, the ones who have to be highly paid because they ‘take such risks’ So why are they not the ones who pay the financial penalty? Well, we know it’s because they ‘went to the same school’ or, in europe because they are members of the ‘funny handshake’ club (freemasons for those who don’t understand). Whichever, or whatever the reasons, they remain as the single most influental of those responsible for failure. Management is the curse of modern society and industry. The enablers of failure again and again who seldom seem to be held accountable – sadly.
Go NAFTA!
Boeing had a quite successful approach to design and develop the 777, including a strong supplier management approach with insightful QC. Doing it well takes hard work.
Outsourcing the hard work to someone else but measuring them on cost is a recipe for disaster.
@MikeN #16 for the win with this quote:
“I would think the main economic problem with outsourcing is that the Chinese will steal the technology and then you won’t have a company left in 20 years.”
So what.
All you clever dick ‘I did it in 3 days’ IT fools must know by now that your industry is DEAD. Slaves will be employed now, and they don’t give a toss about implementation details nor whether it was written in Chinese.
Such examples like airplanes are exceptions, no maybe they too will be built exclusively in the mainland, the expected china-quality will eventually be ironed or crashed out.
#24
Oh I am so tired of management complainer fools. What mental disorder or vise is going on here? This problem is yet another barrier to comprehending current reality.
Most managers have some degree of competency. They DO work under certain conditions
– budget constraints
– idiotologies
– ladder toplogies
The main idiotology is the disconnect between producer and consumer. The consequences are fast approaching.
#10–Pedro==I don’t see any defense of any corporation. What I see is you claiming Airbus is doing a better job ((ok==less bad?)) of building their airplanes (on time, on budget, leading tech?) than is Boeing. Animby took you to task for that so I looked it up hoping to catch Animby being loose with his facts, and to educate myself since I stopped reading about airplane development since the weak struts of the C-5 debacle, but as usual, he was quite accurate. So, I ask you for additional info and you come back with an irrelevant passe.
#15–Peepod, student of PedoMule==Just as I never defended any/either corporation, I never made any claims about being “first” at anything which in most imaginings would be irrelevant to any subsequent point? I do enjoy the energy you put into dissing me though and I look forward to something closer to the bone rather than blow back on your face? Heh, heh. My perception is this all started a few weeks ago when I disagreed/made fun of you on a particular issue and now you are gun’s a blazing to insult me? Why bother? Realize that every day you wake up is another wasted chance to redefine who you are. You get love when you give love. Same with hate. Or stupid.
Think of every new thread as a new day in your life. What do you want back from it?
Lots of good thinking above regarding the problems of outsourcing. I will quibble with #29–cgp==”The main idiotology is the disconnect between producer
and consumer.” I don’t think that is true “generally” nor moreso as it applies to commercial airliners? The construction of the concern fits several other very important social issues, but not consumerism. In consumerism, most disconnects I can think of all benefit the manufacturer’s as by and large the consumer has no choice, and never will, excpet between the big manufacturer’s. We consumers can’t make our own ipods, so the “free market” is very structured, and very limited and while we are being screwed at every turn, I don’t see any consequences from it.
What consequences do you see?
I’ve never bought into the “small businesses create X% of jobs in the USA.” No specific reason–just don’t immediately parrot what I am told. So, on Morning Joe it was the first time I’ve heard something that makes sense from the beautiful Erin Burnett: “small business job growth only happens when big business grows. Boeing ((just a coincidence)) has 1000′s of small business suppliers, so you need big business to do well for small business to do well.”
Remembering more fully, its always just struck me that the BS about “small business” was an intentional diversion of attention from the welfare big business draws done and a clever way to blame “the small guys” for what is wrong in our economy.
Very clever. We are all doomed.
# 21 – originally a quote from Alan Shepard – when asked what he was thinking of as he waited for the launch of his rocket. “Every part in this big pile of explosive was built by the lowest bidder!”
It wasn’t so much the lowest bidder that was the Boeing problem – it was that there was no understanding of how deep the supply chain had gone. Items that were on a critical path didn’t get noticed because a supplier to a supplier to a supplier had failed.
Their managers were only talking to the first level sub-contractors who themselves had no idea who was actually making the parts.
And how Boeing thought they were going to assure the supply of spare parts over the typical 30-40 year life of a jet model range is anybodies guess.
The car industry which has a similar production issue is careful to outsource to a few well controlled sub-contractors and to talk to them regularly.
This isn’t purely a Boeing issue of course.
The fiasco at Heathrow’s (london) new terminal was partly caused by the baggage system software being left in test mode at the opening. It took 3 days to switch this off – not because of any technical difficulty, but because it took that long to work out who, in the maze of companies, government departments and sub-sub-sub contractors, had the authority to order the change !
I have an idea. Let’s build it here and hire H1b foreigners to build it. That way the American managers can keep a closer eye on them.
When I say
”The main idiotology is the disconnect between producer and consumer.”
I mean it as the profound cause of what is coming next. A bad airplane maker outsourcing outcome does not change anything.
It is general as in all entrepreneurs now do not and despite recent public callings, will not change the ‘make it in china’ mode of operation. The 20 dollar per hour income is out yet 20 dollar per hour spending is still expected. Witness the one-percenter market develop as foreclosures ruin whatever wealth your nation had in the previous 70 years.
One question I have is when the American sovereign default occurs and your balance of trade is finally balanced will you and the rest of western civilisation be able to rebuild?
I seriously doubt it. Training in very high level manufacturing skills has not occurred for 50 odd years. Forget about nuclear plants nobody will be willing to build them for you, your international credit will be zero. Your people are now drugged, tone deaf fools looking for the easy money. Perhaps the immigrants you all want out will save you.
#32 did Alan Shepard ever then explain how you get
$4000 bolts?
I am reminded of the old story of the Tower of Babel.
A big part of the success of the industrial revolution and the modern world economy lies in economies of scale. When you make a million of something, each unit is a lot cheaper than the hand-built prototype. But there comes a point where a project becomes so big that efficient management becomes more and more difficult if not impossible.
For example, consolidating schools can and does save a lot of taxpayer money, but it can eventually reach the point of classes being given in 300 to 1000-seat arenas and students having to make appointments weeks in advance to speak one on one to an actual teacher. Not to mention the proliferation of management until there are more managers than teachers.
The current state of knowledge/skill/practice of management just isn’t up to it, analogous to the way software is fifteen years behind the Moore’s Law-driven success of digital hardware. Vernor Vinge and Ray Kurzweil’s “Singluarity” will be delayed 50 years until the software catches up to the hardware.
It’s not a new problem. In addition to the Old Testament reference I started with, I’d like to respond to msbpodcast’s touting the vaunted Swedish shipyards by mentioning The Vasa, which was to be the Terror of the Seas, but sank before it could make it out of the harbor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_%28ship%29
cpg–so, really nothing on point huh? Well, actually, that is reality so congrats on not trying to shoehorn the Procrustean Bed. What you are ranting about is balance of trade–not consumerism. Related, but by large tangent.
When USA goes formally broke and the rest of the world calls for a reset, the main consequences of same will be totally outside the “control” of the USA: what is happening outside of the USA? Has China also cratered? Is oil production plummeting? Has Pakistand nuked India?
Lots of stuff will be happening/offsetting/compounding the horribles of horribles. Yes, and I think we will see it since all we appear to be able to do is accelerate our own destruction.
Thank you PUKES.
Uncle Patso==you way out in front of me at least. Can you connect the dots? Between the Tower of Babel and “anything” else? It would be instructive.