I have a friend who spent years with horrible throat pain and difficulty swallowing. She needed an operation but, with no insurance and no money, she couldn’t get help. She tried going to a hospital emergency room, but was told she wasn’t sick enough. She actually, seriously thought about committing a crime to get help, but didn’t because of her daughter. Finally, she was able to negotiate the morass of Medicare, etc and get fixed up with an expensive, multi-hour operation. The doctor told her if she had been able to get it treated early, it could have been handled in an office visit.
#80, LL,
#72, A food pantry “rations” its food; food stamps don’t.
You mean somebody on food stamps can request all they want? Wow, I didn’t know that!
My sister was on food stamps for a bit. Don’t lecture me it not being rationed.
Actually yes, a person on food stamps can request all the food they wish. Getting it is an extreme long shot though. A very extreme long shot.
Food stamps are disbursed by a set rate according to the person’s income. They are not “rationed”.
Again, you don’t know what the word means.
A fixed portion, especially an amount of food allotted to persons in military service or to civilians in times of scarcity.
#100, All the more reason for a single payer, universal insurance system. That would reduce the amount of paperwork and opting out.
So, your plan is to “force” the doctors into ONLY accepting payment from the government?
Yeah, right. Get a clue. You’ll do nothing but drive the costs even further through the roof. I stand by original statement. The solution to making healthcare affordable to all is NOT to make it more expensive . . . which is what you are proposing.
If they can’t get their current system working, they damned sure ain’t gonna get the next one working.
Actually yes, a person on food stamps can request all the food they wish. Getting it is an extreme long shot though. A very extreme long shot.
chuckle. Sounds like rationing to me.
AFA the rest of your post, quit playing with polemics.
#99 You may have apologized but you apparently didnt *learn* anything. A week later you’re using the same article to attempt to give support to the same specious argument.
Obama is doing something: troop reductions in Iraq and Afghanistan. If the Tea Party is really serious about deficit/spending reduction, maybe substantial military cuts can finally be made. In the past the right has vilified any military cuts as un-American. Given the right’s tendency to flip flop on a position when a Democrat endorses (or simply concedes) it, I hold little hope there. Consolidating power and demonizing the opposition seems to be more important than nearly any plank in the platform.
#103, Woah! I didn’t realize it was the same exact article. I swear
Putting that aside, do you still not believe that companies are moving in large quantities to these tax havens?
#103, Troop reduction
I’ll believe it when I actually see it.
How long before we see another troop surge?
And this would be a good start. Now . . . where to find the other $1.4T to fund what we’ve allocated so far?
#102, LL,
So, your plan is to “force” the doctors into ONLY accepting payment from the government?
Yeah, right. Get a clue. You’ll do nothing but drive the costs even further through the roof. I stand by original statement. The solution to making healthcare affordable to all is NOT to make it more expensive . . . which is what you are proposing.
WOW, just WOW !!!
You make a proclamation that single payer health insurance will drive up the cost. You ignore the experience of every other western nation, all of whom have better health outcomes than the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Comparison_to_other_countries
…
Average life expectancy (in Cuba) is 77.5 years, compared to 78.1 years in the United States, and infant and child mortality rates match or beat our own. There’s one doctor for every 170 people, more than twice the per-capita U.S. average.
Not everything is perfect in Cuba. There are shortages of medicines, and the best care is reserved for elites. But it’s still a powerful feat. “In Cuba, a little over $300 per person is spent on health care each year. In the U.S., we’re spending over $7,000 per person,”
So how do they keep their costs so low?
Partly by keeping physicians’ salaries low. Obviously, given the government they have, they can do that. But they also emphasize primary care and preventive care, addressing diseases and problems before they become major. It’s a very different approach to health care.
In the United States, we essentially do the opposite. We treat diseases when they occur. We’re not very good at the preventive component, which causes the costs of our health system to be much higher.
Partly by keeping physicians’ salaries low.
BINGO!!
Isn’t that what I said in an earlier post?
Note: You should know that our current Medicare system is a single payer system but for a select group of people. It isn’t doing too well last time I checked.
Medicare in the United States is an example of a single-payer system for a specified, limited group of persons.
http://tinyurl.com/2j9s5x
Single payer may work in other parts of the world but these other parts of the world don’t have the type of government we have, one based on freedom and personal responsibility (though I’ll admit that is becoming less and less evident every day).
#108 LL
That’s part of the reason why there are problems – its a select group of sick, old and poor people.
It would be like an insurance company that only insured for fire after the house burned down.
Cover everyone, because everyone will need it eventually, most of them not simultaneously.
There are other issues, but that’s a large one. Lets identify and correct the others.
“We didn’t make the perfect system, so lets give up and forget the whole thing.” Has anything worthwhile ever been accomplished with that attitude?
#108 LL
“Single payer may work in other parts of the world but these other parts of the world don’t have the type of government we have…”
So you’re saying we are not *able* to do what the rest of the civilized world has found effective in meeting the needs of their citizens?
Sir, you do America a disservice.
#110,
No, the correct answer is
“The rest of the world has decided to go down a path that has shown time and again that it does not work.”
Why do you think the EU was formed with a central currency?
Because their own currencies faltered due to the large number of social programs they had implemented. Even the Euro is starting to have problems as evidenced by Greece, Portugal, and Ireland.
#109, That’s part of the reason why there are problems – its a select group of sick, old and poor people.
So, your goal is to put even more onto this program.
Everybody who works pays into Medicare now and it is not enough to take care of the select group.
What makes you think putting more people on it is going to make it work better?
LL:
Germany seems to be doing alright. Switzerland too, since you like to bring it up.
I suppose since the states are having budget problems, we should disband the US and stop using the dollar?
Bottom line is the financial crisis kicked everyone’s ass. It kicked the ones who had already been very irresponsible double hard. Doesn’t mean you can cherry pick a dire situation and then proclaim everything to be a failure.
By that logic we should stop eating gyros and greek yogurt. The Greeks did, and look what happened!
Things are more complicated than that.
#112 My goal is to fix what needs to be fixed. Fund the program appropriately instead of cutting the legs from it and then proclaiming failure.
My goal is for us to stop relying on a “healthcare system” that pushes people into poverty, kills, or is indifferent to people so that a select few can make money from their suffering/misfortune.
You point to the “failure” of the single payer model. Our model has bigger problems of its own. Your “do nothing and let the market sort it out” doesn’t solve anything either. What does that leave?
#113, Things are more complicated than that.
Yes, they are. That’s why simply forcing everybody to buy insurance is not the solution (granted, boiling down thousands of pages to a single sentence kinda violates that statement, but ultimately that is what it does — at least more most of the people).
The solution is a strong economy.
#114, Your “do nothing and let the market sort it out” doesn’t solve anything either.
Um, I don’t believe I’ve ever said that. Please don’t put words in my mouth. Numerous times I made suggestions that would help alleviate the problem.
If you are truly interested in a solution that is not the standard, “Government is the only solution to the problem they created” model, I will be happy to oblige . . . again.
#115 — Here is the solution. Sadly, I only wish I could write this eloquently.
In these United States of America, one of the wealthiest countries on the planet, many people cannot afford even basic health insurance. They suffer severely under the present system and have to live under the constant fear of not knowing what they will do if they or their loved ones ever fall seriously ill.
But in many cases, insured individuals aren’t much better off either. In comparison to the exorbitant insurance premiums they pay, the medical care they receive is often very poor.
Additionally, due to the government-enforced monopolies of HMOs (Health Maintenance Organizations) and pharmaceutical companies, many patients will never even hear about some of the most effective and non-invasive treatment methods. These natural and inexpensive ways of regaining one’s health are being suppressed by the FDA and the medical establishment not because of safety concerns (they’ve been around for hundreds of years), but because they cannot be patented and would therefore cut into the pharmaceutical industry’s profits.
The current system is most definitely broken, and it must eventually be abolished if we want regain both our health and our freedom.
But Obamacare is the worst possible answer. All it does is perpetuate a flawed system by forcing everyone to become a client of insurance companies, even those who don’t want to or need to participate.
Why should anyone be forced to subsidize the medical care of others? Very few individuals would personally assault their neighbors at gunpoint and steal thousands of dollars to pay for their own medical needs. How could any freedom loving person agree to delegate such criminal acts to the government by supporting a compulsory health insurance system?
There is only one solution that will lead to true health and true freedom: making health care more affordable. Ron Paul believes that only true free market competition will put pressure on the providers and force them to lower their costs to remain in business. Additionally, Ron Paul wants to change the tax code to allow individual Americans to fully deduct all health care costs from their taxes.
Through these measures and the elimination of government-sponsored health care monopolies a much larger number of people will be able to finally access affordable health care, either by paying for medical insurance or by covering their medical expenses, which are now much lower, out of their own pocket.
As for the poor and the severely ill who can neither obtain insurance nor pay for the medical care they need, Ron Paul offers the following solution in his book “The Revolution: A Manifesto“:
In the days before Medicare and Medicaid, the poor and elderly were admitted to hospitals at the same rate they are now, and received good care. Before those programs came into existence, every physician understood that he or she had a responsibility towards the less fortunate and free medical care was the norm. Hardly anyone is aware of this today, since it doesn’t fit into the typical, by the script story of government rescuing us from a predatory private sector.
Illegal aliens already receive de-facto free health care. Why can’t poor Americans have the same… not as a right, but as a charitable benefit provided by doctors who feel a personal responsibility for their fellow citizens?
Unfortunately, the current medical monopoly corrupts many doctors by rewarding practices that are not in the patients’ best interest. Pharmaceutical companies have a vested interest in not curing people, but getting them permanently addicted to expensive drugs that have many side effects, thereby requiring additional drugs to suppress those side effects. Many doctors are afraid to speak up and question the system for fear of being ostracized by their peers or even losing their license.
Under a liberated health care system prices would come down and additional options would become available, thereby making health care much more affordable. Moral corruption would give way to true compassion, and many doctors would remember their implicit obligation to provide free medical care to those in need, just like they did in the past.
Ron Paul
#116
Tax break only work for those who pay some or a lot of taxes. If i cant afford treatment, its possible my tax burden is low anyway. This plan works ok for the middle class and very well for the rich. It screws the poor.
I don’t buy your whitewashed view of “the olden days” Medical care was different, limited, and cheaper back then. We just didn’t know enough to do anything expensive. Now we have drugs and labs and equipment and procedures that didnt even exist then. Pre SociSec – elderly poverty was a huge problem and a burden on families and society. Medical care was and is similarly devastating.
How does placing the burden on the morals of physicians solve the problem? How does that not “steal” expertise and time and supplied from soft hearted doctors. In fact, the ecomomic pressures would discourage this practice. Hospitals as profitable orgs are not going to want to treat for free. Generous Private practice docs will be less successful than selfish ones.
Illegal aliens dont receive any better health care than any other uninsured ,unidentified person. If you had no id, and no ins, they’re going to “treat & street” you. More rightwing FUD.
At no point have you or Ron Paul descibed the mechanism by which “medical care will be made more affordable.” I say you have no answers because you have proposed none, other than the magic of the “free market.”
#117, How does placing the burden on the morals of physicians solve the problem?
Sir, you do America a disservice if you don’t think doctors would rise to the challenge. I happen to have more faith in my fellow man than you, it seems. What happened to you that you think everybody is out to screw everybody else?
I say you have no answers because you have proposed none, other than the magic of the “free market.”
I guess you don’t understand how free markets work then. Perhaps you should read up on them and come back so we can discuss this further.
#118, um, make “would,” “wouldn’t” . .
#119, sigh. or not. I never was a good writer.