At least we can get back debating… well, anything else.
One option is coin seigniorage—aka, the “really-huge-coin workaround.” The United States has a statutory limit on the amount of paper money in circulation, but no such limit on coins. The Treasury secretary has the authority to mint certain coins of any denomination, with no need for the value of the metal to equal the value of the coin. (It gets a bit technical.) But the idea is that Secretary Timothy Geithner could order the Mint to make a, say, $5 trillion coin. It could then use the coin to buy back and extinguish debt from the Fed, pushing the country back under the ceiling. Or it could deposit it, and the Fed could counteract the inflation by selling government debt.
Ah, but the coin would only be worth $5 trillion if it was MS-70 and slabbed.
(A little bone for all you numismatists out there!)
To fix the debt and the budget and the tax/revenue system in America we only need to do one thing. pass the Public Finance Election Bill which would remove all private money from the election, re-election and lobbing process. Each candidate from each tier of (federal, state & local) government election receives a fixed amount for campaigning. any money not used is returned.
Oh and no public sector job selling or buying anything from the government or it’s agencies for 10 years following or previous to running for or serving in government.
The bonus …… by the end of the second election cycle we would also get Democracy back!!
So let me get this right. Instead of actually doing the right thing and actually fixing our runaway spending problem, you would rather print more money?
Yeah, that always works out well.
It’s time for Operation Clean Sweep. If your congressperson wasn’t part of the solution, next time, get out the vote broom.
“What Jefferson was saying was, Hey! You know, we left this England place ’cause it was bogus; so if we don’t get some cool rules ourselves – pronto – we’ll just be bogus too! Get it? “
““really-huge-coin workaround.”” “Righteous bucks! “
There is only solution to this problem at this point. Pass a bil that mandates it will not come up again before the next election. Everything else is BS and up for sale.
# 19 bobbo, words have a meaning and a context said, “Raising the debt ceiling does not create any debt, legal/by law/or not/ or otherwise.”
Yes, Bobbo. Words do have meaning. In our much-vaunted political circles, raising the debt ceiling means selling bonds and thus increasing the debt. It’s not really cause and effect and the words aren’t synonyms. It’s not even NewSpeak. It’s GovSpeak.
If you honestly believe approving a higher debt will not lead to a higher debt then I may lose all hope in your salvation.
This reminds me of a campaign of Dungeons & Dragons I played over 20 years ago where we tried to steal a 1M gold piece coin. We found the coin itself did not contain 1M GP worth of gold, and neither did the treasury vault of the city state that issued it. Even the base metal the coin was made from wasn’t worth being sold as scrap to the local blacksmiths. I think all we took away from that campaign was a bunch of experience points.
Explain that last part, selling government debt?
How’s that different from borrowing?
By the way not extending the debt ceiling doesn’t mean default on debt. It means the government then has to choose what bills to pay and what payments to make in what amount.
There Will Be Default, er Blood. Actually both. We will default one way or the other, this will piss off our creditors. There will be a really big depression and there’s one sure fire way to get out of a depression- War. You can cleanse all your sins through war.
All currency, whether coins, paper, electrons, gold, silver are fiat. They are a symbols for barter. Instead of carrying around a sheep, we carry around a representation of the value of sheep. Only food, shelter, tools and labor have intrinsic value (stuff). All we are doing is conveniently representing our labor in money whether gold, silver, or paper.
There is, weirdly, a lot of truth in Adam Curry’s statement that we’re all worth $9m when we’re born. That’s the present value of the average human being’s labor over a lifetime. It’s not what you’re paid, it’s what the goods and services you make are worth.
It is only when Americans email , phone and harass their elected officials – congressmen and senators that this immoral game is up
The game is over, you had better stop this beltway crap or its curtains for you
“DO YOU UNDERSTAND”
This two party James Carville spin stuff is over
No more of these talking points
You are not safe if you are an elected republican either
Just because you are a Republican does not make you safe
Either get with the program and serve your country and your constituents or you are out on you ass as well
What a corrupt bunch
What an evil president along with the rest of the elected officials of the old school
It is said that the second oldest profession are politicians
Either get with the program or you are out
Be sure of that
The game is over gentlemen
#27–Animby==I can see you are honestly struggling with the truth, but maybe you just can’t handle the truth? How bout some foam?
Debt is caused when Congress and Pres approve spending in excess of revenue. Note specifically that increasing the debt limit contains neither term.
Yes, words have a meaning and a context. I thought yesterday, and think again, that you and I share so many values the same. The only reason we define ourselves on either side of the political fault line is because I see things clearly whereast you have been caught by the right wing spin meisters. THIS is such a topic.
Words have meaning and a context.
I won’t even argue that raising the debt ceiling will or won’t cause an increase in debt. You have the definition. It doesn’t fit yet you continue to argue your little dogma. How about this? Your fried rice and donkey ball soup tonight for dinner will also cause the debt to increase? You see my point? Post hoc ergo Proper hoc. Animby, why do you so rightly reject this fallacy until it fits your prejudices?
Yes, words have meaning and a context.
Lets see, to be fair, did you say “cause?” …. No. Ha, ha: “lead to.” So, you didn’t ignore that angel of truth on your left shoulder, but couldn’t quite ignore the devil either?
What is it that we call people who compromise what they know the truth to be for old and comfortable ruts???? Pedro has a word for it.
“We don’t have a tax problem, we have a spending problem.”
Yes, indeedy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_money
bobbo: “Spending in deficit is unfair/doesn’t work.”
On the contrary, it has helped our country (and many others) become as healthy and wealthy as it is (they are) for hundreds of years. Eking out that extra few percent contributes to the health, welfare and education of our population and is invaluable when we need to vanquish those who wish to destroy us. The problem only comes when indulged in to too great a degree.
foobar: “Here’s an off the wall crazy idea. How about grownup planning and management?”
I don’t know if we, as a country, are capable of that at the moment.
Rob Peter, pay Paul.
#32–Uncle==why start by saying “to the contrary” when a full read of your position is in agreement?
Makes no sense. Short term/long term/general rules/exceptions.
You know what I said—same as you said.
Lets BALANCE THE BUDGET. Balance = reduce spending + take back what the Rich have stolen.
tick, tock.
@#35 bobbo
What the rich have stolen.
Congratulations, you are dangerously close to a personal epiphany. You won’t be happy until you have taken everything the rich own, same as they won’t be happy till they have taken everything you own.
Given your attitude, the only meaningful difference between you and them is that they are much more effective than you. Celebrate, for you are officially a poor rich man!
#29, That’s something quite a few people have a hard time gasping.
That is how the wealth transfer takes place. Those who have access to that money at the beginning get the full value. Those of us who buy a TV get the depreciated value because the number dollars needed to buy it has gone up.
They gripe about eating the rich then support the very mechanism that allowed the rich to get that way because of some silly campaign slogan and a political party.
I wish more people would read from mises.org. They would understand this wealth xfer mechanism and would never support a debt increase again.
And make no mistake — I don’t trust the republicans right now either. They would raise it in a heartbeat if the Tea Party wasn’t riding their ass.
One solution to the crapfest going on in congress is to stop paying for it and to stop first with paying for congress.
I bet there would be a lot less interest if the bums had to do it for free.
We save a shit load of money if we could just take the whole load of congress critters, senators and the president and force them to not try to become rich at our expense.
Ridiculously enough, that’s a part of the Tea Party platform, but it doesn’t go far enough.
George Washington was a farmer, not a career politician.
Get rid of all career politicians. Get rid of K Street. (Bulldoze the whole fuckin’ street and turn into a nice long park.)
There is a much easier solution to ALL of this. Do away with the “debt ceiling”. Problem solved. Then it will NEVER be an issue again. Can we get back to worrying about the tragic death of Amy Winehouse now?
Raising the debt ceiling limit is like raising the limit on a credit card. It does not change the fact that you are spending more than you take in. Our creditors expect to get paid and so do seniors, etc.
If it becomes clear as it should have years ago that not everybody can be given what is and has been promised then the spending binge should have been over.
In the short term we can pay the interest on our loans while we continue to borrow to run the government and meet other obligations. However we are pushing into dark and murky waters and I’d knock down our ratings for short term bonds and give us a Z on long term bonds.
The Reps would love to balance the budget, at least in theory, while the Dems claim that the universe will end unless we keep charging into deeper debt.
The bottom line is that anything the Dems will accept still means we are doomed. The Reps were doing a little better but they were no where near actually avoiding disaster either so get you hard hat on and try to figure some way you and your loved ones can get food, clothing, and shelter while we have a total economic melt down sometime in the next few years.
Take care and may God bless and keep you.