Wanna bet this will become a trend to ensure sales taxes are collected and banks get their credit card fees?
Cold hard cash. It’s good everywhere you go, right? You can use it to pay for anything. But that’s not the case here in Louisiana now. It’s a law that was passed during this year’s busy legislative session.
House bill 195 basically says those who buy and sell second hand goods cannot use cash to make those transactions, and it flew so far under the radar most businesses don’t even know about it.
I’m sure it will spread. It’s stupid and creates black markets, so it’s bound to spread. Oh and don’t count on “public outcry” put a stop to this. americans LOVE having every facet of their lives managed by their betters.
What?
I can’t believe this is real and if it is they deserve to be shot.
note that the bill was authored by Democrats. And it allows pawn shops (probably the most egregious offenders with respect to buying/selling stolen goods) to still deal in cash. Un-freaking-believable.
@Memesis – It’s real, all right. And like every new law, there are unintended costs and consequences.
A friend of mine works for a scrapyard in LA, and they had to invest almost $7k in a new computerized system in order to be compliant.
Gone are the days of flea markets and garage sales.
I wonder if GOLD or SILVER would be considered CASH?
I don’t see “Unless it’s used” on my Federal Notes anywhere and since they are not really money, I guess using them will be fine.
Agreed.
And since its not really for amounts sizable enough to make it worth sending in the cops (I mean, its not like it was people dealing in illicit drugs.)
Making an arrest would cause an immediate uproar and the entire measure would be declared unconstitutional as the states would be attempting to do away with the use Federal Reserve Notes, which is legal tender in the US.
Actually I think you may be correct. The Fed Gov says it is legal tender good for paying all bills and it does have the right to regulate a lot of commerce that does or might cross state lines so I think the state over reached.
I know of a few businesses that refuse to do business in cash but this is a little different. It will also get massively broken.
Let’s hope second hand chickens are exempt because that messes up the GOP plan to pay for medical care.
Wow, the next thing that they will outlaw is exchanging of goods or services. 40 years ago my Dad gave a handyman our old car in return for a patio in our backyard. I guess the republicans what to control that too!
The bill is co-authored by state representative Rickey Hardy, a democrat.
There was a town in New England back in the early 80′s, I don’t remember the name but it was of a non-trivial size, where an underground barter economy was emerging and doing quite well.
It scared the shit out of the IRS.
And Congress.
So they passed a bill to regulate and tax it.
There’s precedent here already.
LibertyLover – The town created some sort of centralized “barter exchange” that kept track of points where people could work and employ others. The IRS couldn’t figure out how to tax the income from a barter on services. If a barber cut hair in exchange for lawn mowing then how is that taxed?
Surprised with the internet that that idea hasn’t returned.
Last Line: “Pawn shops have been forced to keep records of their clients for years. However under this bill they are still allowed to deal in cash.” /// Looks like this might catch up gun show sales but not drug sales?
I recall several lawsuits about vendors not wanting to take cash, usually involving a lot of pennies, but I forget how they turned out.
From our Nanny Federal Government who controls the movement of goods in commerce: “The note is legal tender for all debts public and private.” Does seem to violate the primacy clause and would fail under court challenge.
Pro’s and Con’s to all we do. Ha, ha—another regressive move to tax the poor folk, BUT it is very illustrative of how very small simple easy to enforce little rules can/will have massive impacts on a society.
Another one I saw referenced in the news for the first time a few days ago: put a small tax on stock transfers. It would have a huge impact on the fradulent transfers/extraction now being made on Wallstreet against the rest of us/the 99.99999%.
I was thinking about going off credit cards again when/if I get a fee to have one. Looks like this will block that if it comes to my state.
If the federal laws prevail over state laws this bill is unconstitutional.
On the dollar bill it says “THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE” (yes, is in uppercase)
They either need to amend the federal law or the state law, or we have legal ground for possible lawsuits.
It depends on your party. For marijuana, federal laws prevail. For immigration, state law prevails.
THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
It’s on all paper money, always has been.
Guess I’ll have to change my saying – “Federal Reserve notes are good anywhere but eBay”
You gotta believe if there weren’t so many crooked politicians that cash would have been done away with a long time ago. It’s hard to hide $90,000 in bribe money ala William Jefferson when it is on a credit card! (amazingly enough, the Wikipedia main article on him doesn’t mention the word freezer, but does detail some other amazing things about him – it is in his corruption entry)
I think you hit the nail on the head. The dollar says it’s good for all domestic debts. “*except in LA for used items” getting penciled in by a state is just too silly. Since the courts have become a conservative ideological weapon normal considerations don’t apply anymore.
Uncle Dave is also correct this would force people into using electronic payment systems(credit/debit cards) that mostly come from a few big providers. Wow, what a “free” market!
I don’t have a problem with an evolution away from physical currency. BitCoin is interesting, but has the problem of being backed by a fixed/sticky commodity. When gold was used to back regular currencies in a similar way it created all kinds of problems.
Making that work is an interesting problem that I don’t have a good solution for, but I am sure that this ain’t it.
Too late for the BitCoin route. It’s dying.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/10/bitcoin-implodes-down-more-than-90-percent-from-june-peak.ars
Second Hand sales aren’t recorded anywhere, so how can this be policed ? Every yard or garage sale required to have a “tax permit” ??? And what about “Such a Deal” from Tony Trunk ???
Silly !!!
What a shitty story. It doesn’t say anywhere whether the bill was passed in the legislature and/or signed into law by the governor. Heck, until watching the video, it wasn’t even clear what state this was in.
All the same, I’m thinking that this has to be against federal law or at least would be overturned by the Supreme Court, if it ever even got that far.
Oh, and is that not the scruffiest state representative you’ve ever seen?
They can’t arrest everyone. Let them pass these stupid laws if it makes them feel useful. We’ll ignore them just like we ignore the immigration laws.
This guy should go into the money order business. Then he could sell a money order for the exact amount of the purchase and take the money order. Sell the money order for a but and give a dollar discount to anyone buying a money order. seems logical.
Cash is not legal anymore even though it says on the currency itself that it is legal tender for all debts public and private. The IRS will not let you pay taxes in cash and will only accept wire transfers from commercial bank accounts for employee taxes and income taxes for small businesses. They are trying to end all cash businesses, especially the Medical Cannabis ones.
Take heart. As long as there is a way to bribe a congressman there will be a way to use something like cash, and it will always be possible to bribe a congressman.
They probably also repealed the law of gravity. Sorry, LA – federal law prevails.
“The note is legal tender for all debts public and private.”
A key word here is DEBTS
Unless I owe you money for a service or product, you can refuse my cash.
If I do OWE you money, and you decline my offer of cash….. I no longer owe you anything.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx
Legal Tender Status
I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn’t this illegal?
The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled “Legal tender,” which states: “United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.”
This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.
That’s interesting information. Thanks.
Bullshit! You’re not thinking.
First. The Federal Reserve isn’t even a real governmental entity. They’re quasi-governmental and about as “Federal” as Federal Express is. About the only thing that confuses people is the fact the the U.S. President gets to decide who becomes the Feds chairman and for the Fed’s association with the U.S. Treasury. But that’s about it. And as far as choosing a Fed chairman goes, who do you think gives the U.S. President his list of choices anyway? (Hint: it’s not from the legislative or judicial branches.)
So when you read the words on a Federal Reserve Note (FRN) that say “This note is Legal Tender…” it really doesn’t mean much since it’s only “legal” with the Federal Reserve – not the “government”! By comparison, saying that it’s “legal tender” is no better than saying it on an Arby’s coupon. It doesn’t matter who has the note/coupon since it’s only redeemable with whoever issued it. But redeemable for what you might ask (this is where your blood might start boiling)…
The only thing that gives a FRN any real power is that the U.S. Treasury gives it to them and that’s because the Constitution, although unclear, prohibits a Federally administered Banking system (it’s in the First Amendment but you have to go back to the 1790′s and Alexander Hamilton to see why). Basically, the U.S. Treasury will only accept a FRN in exchange for a certain amount of gold. But whoops!!! Looks like the U.S. Government abandoned the gold-standard in 1933 under President Roosevelt so you can’t even redeem your FRN for gold! However, you might be able to get some gold from the Treasury using a U.S. “Treasury Note” – something that looks just like a FRN (it’s something that pretty much came and went during the Kennedy administration and may have something to do with why he was assassinated too).
So when you get right down to it, it’s all a lot of smoke and mirrors that basically end up giving the U.S. Dollar no actual value. But we “sheep” still think it has value – it really doesn’t. You can blame our government too. But I’d rather blame the real assholes who have caused all this – the bankers!
And with regard to this story, you might not be allowed to trade privately with actual printed dollars in Lousiana any more but you are sure as hell still going to pay through a system based on dollars. After all, it’s still against the law to rip someone off.
Don’t get me wrong. I agree that this is a very stupid Louisiana law which was probably enacted in an attempt to stop counterfeit currency and protect citizens from taking advantage of each other – or possibly help clear out court cases or something. At best, it look’s like another “nanny law” that’s only enforceable by the State of Louisiana. And you might note I didn’t say local counties or cites either – just the “State.” (Hint! Hint!)
The federal government wanted to tax transactions on ebay about five years ago. TV shows like “Pawn Stars” are popular today, too.
The main reason they don’t print $500 and $1000 bills anymore is because of money laundering. If they wanted to end cash, they’d just stop printing anything above a $5 bill. It would become so difficult to pay cash for anything people would give up.
I’ll buy and sell what I want, and I’ll use cash or any other medium of exchange that is agreeable to both myself and the seller. And the day you make me a criminal is the day I bring Mr. Charlie out of the jungle for you. Your rich man’s secret police bullshit is getting OLD.