Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, avowed Obamacare foe, proposed an ambitious plan Wednesday to cut his state’s uninsured population in half — by getting them covered through Obamacare.

The Republican announced that he is rejecting Medicaid expansion and the billions of federal dollars that would come with it. In fact, he’s proposing a net cut in the state Medicaid program.

Walker would take thousands of people currently on Wisconsin’s relatively generous Medicaid program — people who are above the federal poverty level — and move them into the Obamacare exchange instead, where they can get federally subsidized private insurance. Walker has already said he won’t run the exchange, requiring the federal government to take control instead.

Obamacare is good? Big government is the answer? From Scott Walker, of all people? Bizarro-world time!



  1. MikeN says:

    Uncle Dave is now pretending to be stupid. So a governor is cutting costs over which he has control to take advantage of something that’s available to him over which he has no control. The horror!

    Note, he is not expanding Medicaid, or creating a state exchange, two of the larger parts of ObamaCare.

    The detail looks messy, as there is no subsidy if a state doesn’t set up an exchange. Instead, Obama is violating the law in having the federal exchanges hand out subsidies.

    This matters because the law penalizes businesses if one of their employees accepts a subsidy. This would not apply in Wisconsin since they haven’t set up an exchange through which subsidies can be provided. Thus employment is going to do better in Wisconsin than in neighboring Illinois, where restaurants and other businesses will shift to more part-time employees to stay under the 50 worker threshold.

    • MikeN says:

      The real question is how to fix the problems. Having people go without health insurance is not a good policy. Perhaps they should create some special carve out HSA policies that are not subject to ObamaCare rules, b ut will let people avoid paying the penalty.

    • MikeN says:

      “What we’ve learned through the course of this program is that this is really not a sensible way for the health-care system to be run.”

      Obama Administration spokesman

  2. Sea Lawyer says:

    You mean all of these insurance exchanges that haven’t materialized?

  3. Dallas says:

    Teapublipukes are squirrelly little fuckers but just follow the money or power trail.

  4. Colorado says:

    Walker is just gaming the system as he should if he is to look out for his state. In fact everyone will be trying to beat this system for the rest of their lives from seniors trying to get extra care for free to twenty-somethings not signing up because the penalty is less than the premiums. That the government thinks they can rein this all in is the real idiocy here.

    • The Monster's Lawyer says:

      “extra care for free” to someone that has put into the fund for most of their life. You must be one of them thar libby tarians i’ve heard tell about. You punks get off my lawn. Damn whippersnappers.

      • Egon Ruuda says:

        They sure payed in, but the money was not saved or properly/safely invested. Libertarians think that no one should have payed in the first place and we can only get rid of it by not letting the youngsters in and phase it out as slow as it takes for all that payed into it dies off, OR you could repay all those payments if the rest of the economy was in a sound state over a period of time. The government is broke either way and this facáde is just a scam to lull people with a false sense of security.
        When the interests rise to save the dollar the gov cant pay the bills and they get nothing, the alternative is not to raise interest and see the dollar plunge and they would get less and less over time for their money. It is a loose/loose situation right now for the ones that payed into it.

      • Sea Lawyer says:

        You mean you paid a tax that was transferred to somebody else. You don’t think that Medicaid is some sort of annuity that you have ownership of do you?

        • LibertyLover says:

          Of course, they do!

        • The Monster's Lawyer says:

          Paid into a fund that had a specific plan. That plan is to suplement Americans medical needs when they would need thme most. It wasn’t supposed to be a slush fund.

          • The Monster's Lawyer says:

            sorry about the bad tipyng. i was busy getting some of that ‘free’ money.

          • LibertyLover says:

            And that is the problem with any government run program. Once they get your money, they can do anything they want with it.

            Better to keep up with it yourself.

  5. bignumber says:

    Politicians don’t have a monopoly on short sighted decisions, or ones that screw with their shareholders well being, while appearing financially smart. What’s another lie cost? Public proves it’s $0 everyday.

  6. CPBrown says:

    Free money is free money. You don’t have to agree with it to take it.

  7. bobbo, constantly reminding the foolish of First Principles says:

    Obamacare is a first effort to fix the crippling increasing healthcare costs to the USA that are already twice that of any other industrialized nation and rising at double the inflation rate.

    Calling this Bankruptcy on the Galloping Hoof “The Best Healthcare System in the World” does not hide the fact that it is not. Sorry fools.

    But Obamacare is only cracking the first eggs in the omelet. We need a bigger omelet, some toast and jam, ….. and some BACON!

    Healthcare should be for EVERYONE. Not just the Super Rich.

    Silly Hoomans. You deserve what you mindlessly chant you want—the rest of us want sane decent humanitarian social policies and programs. BECAUSE IT SAVES MONEY if nothing else.

    Yea, verily.

    • hmeyers says:

      I think Obamacare will have the opposite effect, sadly.

      Think about the price of higher education.

      I also am not sure it will lead to “universal coverage” because if some of what I have read about premium costs are true, the insurance may have an extraordinarily high cost.

      Still, I’m hoping none of the above is true.

      I’m trying to hope for the best.

      • MikeN says:

        According to government reports, the cheapest plan is about $20k per year. I think CBO is underestimating the number of people who lose coverage when they say 7 million, and they will have to update the number of people who will pay penalties as well.

        The key is to get your taxes paid properly. Don’t overpay, as the $3000 penalty for not carrying insurance can only be withheld from a refund. It cannot be separately collected. Better to avoid paying taxes if you can, and pay a late payment/underpayment penalty. Perhaps claim extra dependents so as to increase your take home pay, reduce your withholding, then pay the difference in April.

    • hmeyers says:

      | Healthcare should be for EVERYONE.

      I would only agree with that if people are required and expected to take reasonably good care of themselves.

      I’m not interested in paying for the healthcare of obese people that eat themselves to death and ride in scootercarts or meth addicts or gang bangers that get themselves shot.

      Why should I pay for some super-obese person’s scootercart or pay for their feet amputation or a lifetime of insulin?

      Why should I help pay for the health problems of those that use drugs like meth or heroin? Or the smoker that destroys his lungs or the alcoholic that rots out his liver?

      • bobbo, constantly reminding the foolish of First Principles says:

        Hmyers–I don’t know how you parse the relevant issues to get to such a position, but EVERYONE means everyone. Sick obese people who dont get primary care are more expensive to the system than those who do.

        Why do you have doubts when you look all over Europe and see that universal coverage works? How can you argue the Frogs and Krauts can do something that the USA cannot do? What are you: Anti-American??????

        Doesn’t even matter if you are right. The status quo before ObamaCare was Bankrupting America, making our goods and services less competitive in the world market, the cause of more personal bankruptcies than any other cause and so on down the line.

        Now that the eggs have been broken, the breakfast can be modified as experience shows us it should be. Ultimately==premiums will not be charged as UNIVERSAL healthcare/medicare for all/single payer whatever flavor you wish will do away with this 20-25% of the cost waste fraud and abuse aka FreeMarket Healthcare.

        That tug on your feet you feel HMyers is the past holding you back. Walk a bit more quickly, and it may go away.

      • bobbo, constantly reminding the foolish of First Principles says:

        HMyers showing the calcifications that arises over the years of dogmatic non-think forlornly howls: “Why should I help pay for the health problems of those that use drugs like meth or heroin? Or the smoker that destroys his lungs or the alcoholic that rots out his liver?” ///// I said it above in CAPS.

        I will say it again: BECAUSE IT SAVES MONEY!!!!

        Its cheaper to give undeserving gutter swine the healthcare they need than to spend twice as much money trying to identify these creeps, veterans, crime victims, working poor, new immigrants, divorces, college students and whatever riff raff causes you to hold your nose so high up in the air.

        Verstehen?

      • ECA says:

        HMEYERS..

        Do you know HOW many people get REALLY bad physically?
        THEY CANT AFFORD to goto a doctor.
        they cant/dont get the option/opinion from someone OTHER then family who really dont know/care.

        and until you can provide 50% of the population with JOBS..150,000,000 you will ALWAYS have problems.. And there have NEVER been that many jobs in the USA.

        • bobbo, constantly reminding the foolish of First Principles says:

          “And there have NEVER been that many jobs in the USA.” /// There is deep insight that never gets mentioned. Kudos to you.

        • hmeyers says:

          I said something that required CAPS? Cool!

          I don’t know if other people eating too many donuts is my problem — Europeans make fun of Americans for being fatties.

          60% of Americans are obese. No one made them do that to themsleves.

          Do I resent the idea of having to help pay for those people that abuse/neglect themselves?

          Yes, that pretty much pisses me off really …

          • tcc3 says:

            Im sorry it angers you to live in a community.

            Sick/Hurt unproductive people are a bigger drag on society than helping them get well. When you start picking and choosing which people “deserve” treatment, where does it stop? Smokers and drinkers dont “deserve” treatment? Fat people? What about a hiker that falls and breaks an arm? What about a kid who falls off their skateboard? Maybe people shouldnt drive since thats dangerous and you might not deem their injuries worthy. Too much red meat? No hospital for you. Skin Cancer after too much sun? So sad…

            To quote Eastwood: Deserves got nothing to do with it. We should treat the sick because its the right thing to do. A close second is that its more cost effective.

        • MikeN says:

          Already they are recommending dropping annual physicals. Stated reason is that they are not useful.
          Actual reason is they need to save money and free up resources.

    • Grandpa says:

      Well said. And if Obamacare doesn’t work, we’ll elect more Democrats to enable legislation to fix it.

      2014 is the time for action ! Let the obstructionists know how much you appreciate their lack of concern.

      • pedro says:

        So if the current “solution” is a fuck-up we must elect more fuck-up to make it better?

        Boy, you must have an iq of 250

        • tcc3 says:

          When the other parties line is “There is no problem, carry on, nothing to see” Yes.

          Better to elect people who try but fail, than people who refuse to try.

          • pedro says:

            Let me get this straight, is better to make things worse than refuse to make it worse.

            Genius!

          • tcc3 says:

            Doing nothing doesnt guarantee it doesnt get worse.

            Ignoring a problem doesn’t solve it.

            Electing politicians who dont believe in government just ensures bad government.

          • pedro says:

            Avoiding to make a mistake is worth way more than “just trying even if it makes things worse”.

            The real problem is both sides are just a bunch of stubborn bastards that just want to have their way but from out of those, not making things worse is way better than copying failed projects that were good when implanted but just ran out of money (the European & Canadian healthcare models)

          • tcc3 says:

            “Avoiding making a mistake”

            is different from

            “There is no problem and there never has been. USA!USA!”

          • pedro says:

            Who’s saying there’s no healthcare problem in the US? Are you that deluded?

    • Dallas says:

      The Puke’s prefer the sheeple get their healthcare at the emergency room (or free) and because the drug cartel makes more money when people are dying than when they’re healthy.

      Why do these commie Puke’s want people to have free, tax payer funded healthcare?

    • Sea Lawyer says:

      Bobbo reciting the talking points without having any understanding of why things are so expensive, how cute; and very typical.

      • bobbo, constantly reminding the foolish of First Principles says:

        SL–gee, taking after me quite aggressively. How come? I don’t recall goring your ox, but there is so much low hanging fruit. Did you misexpress yourself.

        Anyway, I thought all the lawyers on this forum did a good job of cogent responses and commentary. You are letting your group down with such a fact void comment. Pure boiler plate.

        FYI–I am a health care expert. What do you think I got wrong?

        Tick tock.

        • hmeyers says:

          | FYI–I am a health care expert.

          Oh please …

          Whenever someone on the internet calls themselves an “expert” on something it is time to run … and put on the boots.

          Are you an expert because you need a lot of health care or becuase you process some papers?

          From our discussions, I know you are no expert in biology so don’t have any kind of science background … you don’t even know cell biology …

          • bobbo, constantly reminding the foolish of First Principles says:

            Ha, ha. HMyers==I said that more to tweak SL than anything else. Tweak for tweak. I would never have called myself an expert to you or anyone else. Why raise the bar?

            But your analysis is interesting. Where might expertise in Healthcare come from? Being sick or pushing paper neither of which requires knowledge of biological science.

            Yes, it was a moment of honesty. No expert knows everything of course, and expertise is no guarantee of being right.

            But I am enough of an expert to know the USA Healthcare system is Broken and needs to be fixed. Obamacare is not that fix. Its just the first few steps on a path that needs to be followed.

            Anyone who disagrees with that is not an expert, or their expertise has been turned to the dark side.

            Look at yourself for instance. Totally self centered with a shriveled heart to the needs and care of your fellow man. So Republican: you got yours, and any need of anyone else is their “fault.” No expertise in “life” at all.

            Maybe I used the wrong word? I am no expert, just an advocate knowing shit from shinola? Speaking of healthcare….. feel better now? With my expertise, I will think “no” unless you respond to the contrary.

            Ha, ha. Your position: “Let me continue to pay more than I should, bankrupting the USA, because I’m afraid some undeserving poor will get the care they don’t nominally pay for.”

            Good man.

        • pedro says:

          You were wrong at the “I’m a healthcare expert”

          That was a new low for you

          • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

            I agree. How many times can you say the same thing before you say something different just to break the cadence?

            But everything needs to be defined. What if expert only means having enough knowledge to know the subject at hand is broken and needs to be fixed as opposed to the subject at hand is basically sound and only needs slight modifications. That sounds like expertise to me…. assuming one is right of course….. whichever position the expertise is claimed.

            Thanks Pedro…. your contributions are always illuminating.

          • pedro says:

            If that’s expertise to you is no wonder you’re so wrong on the subject

          • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

            Pedro—every single time you have been challenged you have FAILED to even respond.

            So here is chance number X+1. Name anything in this thread, or any other thread, that I have said that is wrong. Not on matters of opinion which by form cannot be wrong, just wrong headed.

            For instance, the most if not only relevant “fact” in this thread that I see is that healthcare in the USA is Broken. Or … that Obamacare is NOT the fix.

            What have you got?

          • pedro says:

            I have already stated my position about Obamacare and what’s wrong the that “solution”. I replied to you and others.

            I hate to repeat myself specially since those that need repeating are so dense that they won’t change their twisted views.

            You, in the other hand, invent stupid claims that because you have had first aids administered to you when you were a boyscout, you are an expert on the subject.

          • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

            So you got nothing.

            Message received. What flavor mouthwash do you prefer?

          • pedro says:

            Tell us which one’s the one you use so we can avoid that brainwash you use.

          • tcc3 says:

            Foe someone who “hates to repeat” himself, you sure love to harp on Dallas’s posts.

            I wish youd “repeat” policy opinions a little more and homophobic personal attacks a little less.

          • pedro says:

            Mildew is pretty hard to rid off. The only solution there is to repeat the treatment… unless you wanna go the extreme way.

  8. deowll says:

    I believe the thought is dump the entire thing on the Fed. Gov. and when it goes belly up the state just might still be solvent.

    • bobbo, constantly reminding the foolish of First Principles says:

      First Principle: USA Healthcare is ALREADY belly up. You are just too stupid to see it because you have your coverage and you could not care less about anyone not similarly situated as yourself.

      Know what I mean?

  9. dusanmal says:

    Ok, I thought that one can’t probably spin this much or would create a black hole…
    “The Republican announced that he is rejecting Medicaid expansion and the billions of federal dollars that would come with it.” = rejection of Obamacare.
    “Walker would take thousands of people currently on Wisconsin’s relatively generous Medicaid program — people who are above the federal poverty level — and move them into the Obamacare exchange instead” = stupidity and lies of Obamacare, that it will somehow be cheaper on the average citizen. Court ruled that states do not need to join Obamacare stupidity. Obamacare mandates exchanges. If state refuses this burden… ta-da: federal taxpayer will be robbed by Obama pyramid scheme to pay for health insurance of people who should have better planned their life and provided themselves with insurance they can afford.
    This action of Gov. Walker is not only refusal but underlining of Obamacare immense stupidity.

    The only reversal on this issue in recent time is (up for re-election) OH Gov. Kasich – he gave up on not implementing these (for his state) costly exchanges. Following election results in his state. So, OH peple chose and chose poorly (to get their pockets emptied by both fed’ and OH gov.).

    • MikeN says:

      Kasich didn’t set up a state exchange. He signed up for Medicaid expansion. Kasich knows the effects on employment in setting up a state exchange. Those job losses would kill his already weak chances for reelection.

  10. ± says:

    Only sheeple (RD voters) think most R politicians haven’t been totally in bed with Obamacare since day one.

    Uncle Dave, you are a sheeple.

    • bobbo, constantly reminding the foolish of First Principles says:

      Yeah—thats why they voted it down for 30 years and it got passed by Obama with one vote on a strong party line vote? (sic–however many)

      Whats worse? a sheeple or someone who sees sheeple no matter what they gaze upon?

      Does the subtlety of reality have any play in your considerations… or is it all dogma all the time?

      I have seen you do better.

  11. Mextli says:

    Sounds good. Free health care for ALL including, I assume, the hardworking people of Mexico. Education will soon be available to all without cost along with subsidized housing.

    Finally the poor and downtrodden will have a just future and the evil rich will be ground into the dust of history.

    ¡viva la revolución

  12. Glenn E. says:

    Anything the politicians are all going to jump on the band wagon for. You know will be more about keeping the doctors and hospitals rich (or richer). And making the rest of us a bit poorer. Because it’s always about picking our wallets and bank accounts, a bit more. And always will be. While keeping the upper class professionals, well subsidized. Who are the politicians’ election finance backers.

    Obama care is likely more about dealing with doctors’ and medical issurers’ losses, due to people opting for no coverage, in order to eat, as they’re out of work. Soon as that got into the tens of millions, Obamacare came to the rescue. But to whose? The patients or the doctors? I’m thinking more the latter. Because it still doesn’t reform the system, the way a National Health Care system might. It just creates medical welfare, that doctors and hospitals can more easily take advantage of, than Medicare. Which has been attempting to clamp down on medical fraud.

    So I believe Obamacare will be the latest medical gravy train, to come along. Throwing tax dollars at the problems. Rather than fixing them. And Congress will be getting back a percentage of this, in Campaign financing. What would be called “money laundering”, if any criminal organization were doing it. But never the US Congress.

    • MikeN says:

      The goal of the people who wrote and passed ObamaCare was to make insurance companies go bankrupt. They got the insurance companies to support it, thinking they would get mandates on the public to buy their product, as well as a trillion dollars in subsidies. But the people who wrote the bill still have the same hatred of insurance companies, and the goal of putting the government in charge of everything. So they will allow the bill to create its predictable disaster, hoping that the demise of insurance companies will create a public clamor for more government.

  13. Why don’t you Americans come and try it up here in Canada
    30 % of Canadians have just plum given up on even finding a GP
    If you want a GP ( that is taking patients) , the best the bloated bureaucracy can give us / you is a recorded announcement messaging service.
    Phone up early (10:30 am after coffee for the highly paid , pensioned and over-paid in their minds public servants) put the messages up. Next get in the car or on the bus and run over as fast as you can. It will inevitably be a new graduate with little experience or a new foreign trained doctor just starting up.
    That is only the start.
    What is the matter with you Americans putting up and even electing these people who know better for you than you do.
    Yet they sure don’t live the paupers life.
    If socialized medicine was all so good and free how come we never hear of Americans sneaking across the border as illegals to Canada or even with forged medical cards ?
    Its not as Micheal Moore says
    Better go on a holiday to Cancun.
    When Canadians vacation within Canada we have to buy travel insurance as the other jurisdiction province can and will hit us with uncovered ( by our province ) medical charges .

    • Mextli says:

      Don’t talk like that. You will take away some peoples favorite argument. They live to make negative comparisons between the U.S. and every country in the world.

      Don’t you know 99% of the known planets in the universe have better health care than we do.

    • Dallas says:

      I thought Canadians went to Cuba for their regular healthcare while they vacation in their favorite Communist country?

      • pedro says:

        I thought you visited the feminine hygiene aisle just for kicks.

        • The Monster's Lawyer says:

          I heard you visited the feminine hygiene aisle for mouthwash.

          • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

            OOOHHHH!!! There’s a rim shot.

            Pretty low…. but it made me laugh.

            Who says being tawdry and name calling is not good fun?

          • pedro says:

            And how do you know there’s mouthwash at the femenine hygiene’s aisle?

            Sea Lawyer, the expert on feminine hygiene.

          • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

            BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

            Poor Pedro….. the whole joke is that there is no mouth wash in the feminine hygene section.

            Easy to miss when English isn’t your first language.

          • pedro says:

            Really? According to Monster Lawyer there is and he uses it.

            Direct your question to the blog’s self proclaimed feminine hygiene specialist, ML. He seems to be as much an expert in that subject as you are an expert in healthcare.

          • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

            Glug, glug, glug.

            If you were honest Pedro, you would admit your error, laugh, and enjoy the joke on yourself.

            Then, it ain’t being no big thang, you would enjoy life, this blog, and your life in a much more engaged way.

            Try it. You might even stop being so tiresome re Dallas. Using the same joke/meme constantly is ok, but no more than once a week? Paucity of Imagination.

            Know what I mean?

          • pedro says:

            Dumbbo the healthcare “expert” asks honesty from others.

            This keeps getting funnier & funnier

            I have given you the honesty you deserve

          • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

            I did not ask honesty from you Pedro. I did ask you to stop being tiresome.

            No, I am merely informing you that your dishonesty is obvious to us all and I give you the gift of a better idea.

            Not my loss.

            Even criticism that is wrong is beneficial if it is honestly considered and rejected for reasons that can be identified.

            You should attack yourself as forcefully as you do others here.

            Or not.

            “All is vanity.”

          • pedro says:

            And you honestly believe you are a healthcare expert? C’mon!

          • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

            As we have lurched into a cul de sac of honesty==yes, I spent 20 years in healthcare, various positions and licenses.

            As stated, that doesn’t mean I can’t be wrong, but mere general allegations in complete ignorance of the facts doesn’t detract from that experience. Experts and fools can disagree as they do. As anyone should, I know what I know, and what I don’t know. Makes me comfortable in either sphere.

            State what you disagree with and stop playing patty cake.

            Can you do it????

          • pedro says:

            Since you’re asking this way, I’ll byte and tell you, again, where you are wrong on this subject. So pay attention because is the last time I will tell you this.

            You are wrong believing that the healthcare system they have in Europe & Canada is the solution for the US.

            Why? Because those systems are failing; and failing fast. You’re not getting the bet care you could get in Europe anymore with huge backlog of schedules for routine exams is overwhelming & rising.

            In places like Germany, people rather go to alternative medicine “doctors” to get treatments. In Spain, part of their economic downturn is the huge load on their healthcare systems that has been caring for illegals; plenty of street demonstrations have occurred on the subject there.

            In Canada, the once “socialized” medicine is looking for partnerships with the private sector because they cannot cope with the expense anymore and no new diagnostic equipment can be bought anywhere unless the provincial healthcare bureau deems necessary for a city to have them.

            Oh, more than 25 healthcare experience worldwide, what I’m telling you is from experience, not because someone has told me.

  14. MikeN says:

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/gov.-bob-mcdonnell-cuts-state-employee-hours-to-avoid-obamacare-costs/article/2521645

    I think he’s confused about the impact of the law, as his state hasn’t set up an exchange. I’ve submitted a question to his office to find out.

  15. bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

    pedro making one of his most reasonable posts ever says:
    2/16/2013 at 9:15 pm

    Since you’re asking this way, I’ll byte and tell you, again, where you are wrong on this subject. So pay attention because is the last time I will tell you this.

    You are wrong believing that the healthcare system they have in Europe & Canada is the solution for the US. /// To put a finer point on it, as I have posted in the past, the USA cannot afford our current system. CHANGES must be made to it. One model with many variants is on display across Europe. “Your experience” is hardly analytical–if the very definition of bias and anectodal. Analysis requires actual facts based on studies–counting things up. What is the average wait time in the ER. What percentage of Hospital Admissions could be treated in a Physicians Office or by extended care givers, what services are denied…a full panoply of relevant measures going to quality delivered. As we come off For Profit Medicin in the USA, we can pick and choose what works and avoid what doesn’t work from the Socialist Models.

    Why? Because those systems are failing; and failing fast. You’re not getting the bet care you could get in Europe anymore with huge backlog of schedules for routine exams is overwhelming & rising. //// You don’t even get routine exams in the USA if you are UNCOVERED. Thats about 40 Million People. That number of people is only rapidly increasing as premium costs excalate on average at twice the inflation rate and recently in the last few years at 40-50% per year. Yes—USA’s system not only is failing, it has failed. biggest cause of bankruptcy in the USA: healthcare expenses. You call that “the best?”

    In places like Germany, people rather go to alternative medicine “doctors” to get treatments. //// Germany leads Western Medicine in including alternative medicine as part of their provided benefits. Not covered at all in USA.

    In Spain, part of their economic downturn is the huge load on their healthcare systems that has been caring for illegals; plenty of street demonstrations have occurred on the subject there. /// Different issues raised there. If you don’t want to give illegals healthcare, then don’t do it. If you do, provide it in the cheapest way possible.

    In Canada, the once “socialized” medicine is looking for partnerships with the private sector because they cannot cope with the expense anymore and no new diagnostic equipment can be bought anywhere unless the provincial healthcare bureau deems necessary for a city to have them. /// Yes–they refuse to pay more than half what the USA pays. Basically: its a choice for each country to make.

    Oh, more than 25 healthcare experience worldwide, what I’m telling you is from experience, not because someone has told me. /// Yes–the arguement from Authority: your own personal experience. Trouble is—every mother’s son has their own story. What if I tell you I have had the very best experiences whereas in the same circumstances you got the very worst? Or vice versa? AND WE ARE BOTH CORRECT! Surprising you haven’t learned what an inartful approach this anecdotal affirmation is.

    But Pedro–I said to mention a FACTUAL statement on which I was wrong. I said “opinions” could not be wrong. Saying which system is “better” is an opinion statement.

    You haven’t stated ANY FACTUAL STATEMENT I have made that is wrong. Its almost like you don’t understand what the difference is between a fact and an opinion?

    How could that be true?

  16. surprise surprise. more blaming liberals for the ills of the world. this is so predictable, as if a script was being followed. this piece of legislation, like any piece of legislation, has parts i like and parts i disagree with. but nuance is the enemy of a hard, fast ideological position, which is where most of the comments on this page seem to come from.

  17. MikeN says:

    Obama now endorses ANWR and offshore oil drilling?
    They are part of the SAFE report that he endorsed in the State of the Union.

    If a nonpartisan coalition of CEOs and retired generals and admirals can get behind this idea, then so can we,” Obama said. “Let’s take their advice and free our families and businesses from the painful spikes in gas prices we’ve put up with for far too long.