Again, shouldn’t be a surprise.
Mr. Pickering was targeted by a longtime surveillance system called mail covers, a forerunner of a vastly more expansive effort, the Mail Isolation Control and Tracking program, in which Postal Service computers photograph the exterior of every piece of paper mail that is processed in the United States — about 160 billion pieces last year. It is not known how long the government saves the images.
Together, the two programs show that postal mail is subject to the same kind of scrutiny that the National Security Agency has given to telephone calls and e-mail.
And here’s one reason why this and electronic snooping is all a problem:
The program has led to sporadic reports of abuse. In May 2012, Mary Rose Wilcox, a Maricopa County supervisor in Arizona, was awarded nearly $1 million by a federal judge after winning a lawsuit against Sheriff Joe Arpaio. The sheriff, known for his immigration raids, had obtained mail covers from the Postal Service to track her mail. The judge called the investigation into Ms. Wilcox politically motivated because she had been a frequent critic of Mr. Arpaio’s, objecting to what she considered the targeting of Hispanics in his immigration sweeps.
According to the article, this has been going on for 12 years.
How many kids have been born into the National Security State?
One more generation, and the sheeple will be convinced that privacy is not a right.
Fortunately I will be dead before then, and I won’t give a sh*t.
Say Orchi—how much privacy is violated when YOU give a letter to the USPO for them to read 15 times and during that process they take a photo of it? Use any scale you want…. say from 1-10? I will give that privacy violation a………………… ZERO.
Call me a fascist, but I see no privacy in not only doing things in PUBLIC, but doing things in conjunction with the US gubment.
Silly Nilly to get all upset just because something gets labeled “your privacy.” Even an idiot giving this a passing glance knows there is no privacy involved.
Just look.
Silly you, just question what would founders of the country think of this… During the long history of the country this kind of abuse is RECENT. It is clear from direct interpretation of the Constitution and many Supreme Court decision following it that the Government have no right to collect such data, that it is private. Problem is, technology have evolved during the same time as Progressivism have taken root. In GW times it would have been hard to collect such data. Now it is both easy AND Progressivism have taken the root in the legal and political system.
Did Government collect such data during GW times, during Lincoln times? No (and it was possible, scribes could have copied each address and sender, easily). It shouldn’t now. There is the privacy right in the Constitution (but Progressives care for it only when abortion is in question, not when the obvious extension of the old tech’ comes to new tech’ in communication). Tampering with USPS items is still a Federal crime… Just they conveniently want to forget about it when it suits Big Government Progressives.
Hey Deuce–pure gibberish. Nice to see you off your talking points…..not eloquent/coherent at all.
I do agree with you thought that during George Washington times, they did not do any electronic surveillance.
Good Point.
It was top-secret. They kept it under their tri-corner’d-hat. Silicon been around long lots of time.
“judge called the investigation into Ms. Wilcox politically motivated”
This judge must have had a wild hair up his ass against Sheriff Joe Arpaio!
If it was the FBI, NSA or CIA you know the judge would rule it not as obvious abuse, but as an opportunity to protect Americans!
After all, that what Americans expect post 9/11, protected and freedom less!
People need to put all their correspondance on a post-card. Otherwise, you are a terrorist, polluting everyone else’s mail with an extra dose of americium to make sure you are not a threat to the regime. Also, if you get a paid return envelope from Bed, Bath, and Beyond… Stick a brick in it before dropping it back into the post.
No wonder the Postal Service will not be allowed to go bankrupt.
But no doubt FedEx and UPS are part of the mail cover scanning program as well.
Photo of Americans protesting the National Security State.
Of course they are.
You get a computer tracking waybill with every piece of communication you end.
What did you think they did with the source and destination info? Erase it?
Your pension data (every company you ever worked for, for how much and for how long,) is required for a determination of your benefits.
At CN I worked for the pensions department. Some of the records were on cardboard tabulating machine sheets and went back to the 1800s. (survivors’ benefits for people seconded out to the military during the First World War.)
Converting and making all of those records machine readable was a godsend to the department.
But the Government is prohibited, by the Constitution to use such data for anything. Explicitly. Data may exist (just remember recent Dvorak old video of a certain TV show cop, just as recent as 1950’s) but Government CAN’T use it. Only very recent Supreme Court decisions allowed a breach of it when NEW tech’ (pones – new tech??) is considered. Many Supreme Court rulings exist explicitly banning this kind of data collection from USPS. It is formally a crime for Government to collect it, even if it can, easily.
Some years back I snail mailed a relative some CDRs I made of old LPs I own. Ones that are out of print, so they can’t even be bought today. I scanned their album cover art, and put the images on a 3.5″ microfloppy. When all this arrived at its destination, the floppy was blank. It had been erased. Even though I wrote on the outside of the packaging, “Magnetic Materials, Do Not Degauss.” They did it anyway. This is probably what killed the gray market in video tape trading, of old Tv shows and movie. Just an amazing coincidence, of course. Oh sure. As if the RIAA & MPAA weren’t behind the push to degauss anything moving thru the mails.
The excuse for all this has been countering terrorists. But degaussing doesn’t neutralize biological weapons. And more recent mailings of unknown “powders” in the mail, proves this. Or they wouldn’t be so concerned with the results, if they could simply render it harmless, with magnetic waves. No, this isn’t about nuking viruses at all. It’s about driving a stake into the heart of media sharing, using magnet media, the entertainment industry does approve of, or can’t make a profit from sales of. So they got the postal system and UPS, to bulk erase everything, for them.
and yet every single one of the 5 million goddamned AOL disks that were mailed to my house in the 90’s was unharmed…it makes you wonder.
CDRs are optical media. They are entirely unaffected by magnetic fields. You or the recipient didn’t know what s/he was doing. (putting MP3s in a audio CD player maybe?)
Funny. True but still funny.
“Again, shouldn’t be a surprise.”
No, actually it’s not a surprise, as much as it’s a disappointment. That the US govt. would chose to spy on its citizens, any way it could and get away with it. Talk about your slipper slopes. We’re already half way down one. And nobody in the news media is questioning whether we’ve gone too far, in the name of national security? Whose security are they protecting, if privacy and free speech are already at severe risk? Not the common citizen’s security. More like that of the powerfully connected and politically seated. So that in the future, they won’t be inconvenienced by any Grass Root oppositions.
Scanning tons of mail covers, to find the one in a billion that might be from a terrorist, is ridiculous. Terrorists don’t mass mail their intentions. But independent political movements do. So this is how they’ll be stopped. The postal system alerts the FBI, who then sics the IRS on them.
Not so incidentally, I’m confident UPS does the same as the USPS for Uncle Sugar.
This is why I don’t write letters using pen and paper anymore. It’s an outrage.
Ted Kazinski was right.
He was just too little, too late.
National Security Notice:
This comment has been captured for later review by authorities.
There is a possibility of a connection to known terrorists.
Does that mean if I drop a letter with no postage and the send to address as the return address, they’ll catch me?
Only if you are connected to known terrorist organizations.
Otherwise, your privacy is safe in our hands.
Our security apparatus is authorized by the Constitutionally elected representatives you trust for your security concerns.
A secret court will review the facts of your case.
Fret not thyself.
Photo of Americans protesting the Total Information Awareness of the National Security State
I was behind one of the trees taking a dump. It felt like an Occupy Rally.
My copies of the Victoria’s Secret catalogue and Women’s Beach Volleyball Illustrated had obviously been thumbed through before I got them. The only explanation is the NSA.
BTW, I watch women’s beach volleyball because I’m fascinated by the physics of the game.
Bouncing boobs reveal a great deal of information regarding the physics of kinetic energy and quantum mechanics.
Not to mention hydrodynamics, fluid mechanics, and macroscopic equations of continuity and wave kinematics. If God didn’t intend tits to giggle then he would not have made them out of a shear-thickening viscous jello with a high Richardson number.
No doubt a complete cosmology of the universe may be deduced from the close examination of women’s beach volleyball.
I will apply for a research grant immediately.
Captain Obvious is a genius.
Well, maybe not so much.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m8rNEVK3EAw
What concerns me most is how the US is pushing their levels of domestic surveillance upon governments of other allied countries. The threat of a trade embargo or preferential trade status being given to competitors, often accompanies demands to meet US levels of security. Which is why I can’t carry a bottle of shampoo on a plane in New Zealand.
Well, that and the reality that most bottles of shampoo really are a chemical assault.
Sham Poo. Just stick to the real thing and the fragrance will be less offensive to most hoomans.
What are the real issues at play here? I don’t see invasion of privacy. I do see the strong beginnings of a “Surveillance State.” Close, but not the same thing. Are the distinctions different enough to care about, or should all issues between State and Citizen be called privacy?
The injury noted in the OP was that Sheriff Arpaio tracked her mail. Uhhhh…. so what? something he could have done personally, but instead it was nicely wrapped in a bow provided by the USPO. So….he found out who she was writing letters to?==Again==so what?
My “fear” would be that this is just a huge expensive boon doogle that provides very little safety and indeed only a sink hole for time, money, and energy when our elected overseers should be using brain power instead.
Whats the harm? Whats the injury? And as always: the desire to be anonymous should not be confused with your right to privacy. Two very different things.
As already referenced–I’m against these programs because they make our government stupid, not because I have privacy concerns. I’ll meet you in our big tent over by the beer keg.
*…time, money, and energy…* Nailed it. These people do not even make fucking widgets and it’s half our GDP. This to, shall pass; And our homeland with it, I’m afraid.
It’s a party. I’ll come over to that tent and leave off the global warming criticism of one advocating worshiping the creature more than the creator — I think God had that written down somewhere as a marker for FIN. Oh shit, there I go again.. Is that Coors light?? ewww.
Coors light is to beer as
anti AGW is to Basic Science.
What ya doin’? Waiting for the right thread before you unload your Magical Thinking and non response to specific challenges???
The Sea Level Keeps going up, the rate of rise too from my own casual view.
Every cause has an effect. Answer this question: what happens when you put billions of tons of co2 into the atmosphere? If you say “nothing” then you suffer from Magical Thinking. Most Science Deniers do—if they can even understand the point.
Amaze me.
The co2 follows the warming, bobbo; That is because the ocean releases it, as well as karst (caves) formation. Water can hold less dissolved gas when it is warm. And, just so you know who I am, I think the sea level ought to be about 150 ft higher — It modulates about 300 ft throughout the geological record and it is right there in the middle that the whole of earth is a garden paradise. Just sayin’
*What happens when you put billions of tons of co2 into the atmosphere?*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Pinatubo
I almost hold myself back to speak on this subject with you, bobbo, considering your delicate psyche and all. Fuck it. That Coors has left me with too much blood in my alcohol stream:
It is not *science* bobbo. It is not science any more than ‘political science’ is science. It is not more relevant than ‘economic science’. It is just not.
If you want to think it is more art than science then so be it. But, critics and interpreters of said ‘art’ are usually off base and not at all feeling the meaning left to us of the artist.
If you want to talk *science* then ask a physist — that is, if you can find one that is not busy recanting his findings under the subtle influence of a pressure-washer.
I did four in a row once.
Well Tim…where might we start?
You are echoing Guyver who emphasizes there is no scientific proof for AGW….perhaps even GW…… or even that co2 is a greenhouse gas. Where do you draw the line when everything is a mix? Part Science. Part Proof. Part Guess. Part Hope. All in a matrix of error and progress.
It may not be any more science than political science…. so I’ll say it is no less either.
co2 follows warming?/// I read about that once until I got confused. Seems to me the feed back loops, delays, and cycles are such that those with the intent to do so can play games. I am happy to rest easy that co2 may follow or proceed GW depending on the other many factors that apply.
Mnt Pinatubo/// Here is where science does play a major role in understanding our challenge. Science can tell the source of carbon that is in the air–whether from plant transpiration, sequestered carbon burning, or from Volcanoes or vents. The co2 that is driving AGW is from burning fossil fuels.
Its Science. The only engine we have driving towards truth. All other approaches are for different purposes.
Yea, verily!
Such a pretender to science. Water vapor is the most powerful green-house gas.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LTb3JOVO-HI
Well, I’m inebriated and must pass out and kill the world by farting out that fucking Coors in my bed, now.
peace, bobbo,
nay, verily.
Define powerful. Certain hexafluorzines released during photovoltaic manufacturing are 25K more heat retaining than co2. Methane being released from frozen soils and as part of fracking are many times more retentive. Water vapor may be the “most present” but its heat retaining property is offset by its solar reflective properties–almost on a 1:1 Ratio. Besides, hoomans don’t contribute much water vapor to the atmosphere and I think its life cycle is more like 3 days?
Early in the day to be drinking to excess. I want to, but its been too hot for the last week. I must be getting old–I have never noticed it too hot to drink beer before??? YIKES!!!! Could be a whole new phase of my life.
Coors huh? I do assume you are just being snarky. Light on the Science…… kinda fits.
nay, indeed!
Yea, the Coors. Unfortunately, it was the only thing on tap under your tent. I’ve got such a headache now that I’m asking people to drill a hole in the side of my cranium to relieve the pressure.
*Where might we start?* Fuck me running; I did not want to, anyways. It does no good. There is plenty of good science being done by good scientists inside that *field* but the observations are filtered and corrupted. That subject has been co-opted for an agenda {global warming or global governance?} It does not matter what the *science* divines; You get the policy they wanted to choke you with, anyways.
Here I digress from warming gasses to make a point on ‘policy findings’. A little known study — The Southern Oxidant Study (SoS) found that it was not so much cars but trees, soil bacteria, lightning, and sunlight creating the troublesome pollutant of surface ozone from various species of NOx.
As a further aside, It is a local problem and not global. When I say ‘local’ what I mean is that the hoomans all tended to congregate en mass down in the valleys and basins because, historically, that is where the good land was for agriculture. That is where the rich owned everything and built up a service class and economy to serve them. Gasses build up under stagnant inversions over basins. The shits were relegated to the ridges but, at least, can breath. — Nope, these ‘policies’ are punishing the individuals which have nothing to do with the problem.
I would hammer the point home upon taking groups into caves in forested areas which were removed 10 miles from traffic in all directions. Ozone has a very small persistance-time in the environment, you see? After some time in there not breathing it and then upon exiting it was like huffing bleach. It’s that uncomfortable to breath because we were no longer desensitized to the O(3).
Yes. Power companies were involved and were quite honest about why, in the shadow of their plumes, those aerosols were missing. {near field NOx (oxides of nitrogen) were, in fact, titrated out of the atmospheric column due to equillibrium rates under various temperatures and pressures until they had some time to ‘cook’ well down-wind}
Back to policy: There was an imposition from EPA: Keep O3 from exceeding 120 ppm to less than three days a year or get a stamp of *non-attainment* — that status would mean that all industrial growth was halted with all that entails for a local economy.
It is wrong–these communities had nothing to do with what was blown upon them from 100 miles away. It is misguided– it does not matter anyways unless you are an 80 year old asthmatic what refuses to treat with cannabis. It is also easy to get around.
EPA hath decreed so logic and morality be damned. The solution? Well, Atlanta defoliated 400 square miles of trees south of the city to stop the precurser nox — worked. Nashville defoliated a 50 mile stretch of trees all the way to the Alabama line and tried to blame it on the drought that they were all dead. Magically, in town and north of town was no drought damage {trees locally lower the temps and titrate out the offending gasses just like those power plant plumes}. Local value recovered over ten years agent-oranging to please the fucks ~ 8 billion dollars.
It is truely a fractal — one needs to be a scientist as well as an artist to follow all the little side roads but I must cut it short somewhere; The only thing I care to address right now is the sea level stuff.
bobbo, as you are a good scientist, have you not considered that the slight {17 mm is not so much as 100 m} modulations in sea level are as a result of Alfred Wegener’s plate techtonics? You know, convection, advection, giant earth movements that make tsunamis, and changing volumes of ocean basins themselves? I only ask because I could not help but notice that there is no coorselation to it with co2 concentration and thermal liquid expansion or land-based melted ice.
Drink nothing, or drink coors? I feel your pain. Ironically… at the end of your bout, drink as much water as you can. It flushes your system. Take an aspirin too if you can still think. Simple things.
spent most of your time spelunking on nox. Must be your field/cave? Years ago, I skipped reading an article on how “Reagan was Right–Trees do cause Pollution.” thanks to you, I think I’m caught up. Mind boggling how various dots connect up. Only SCIENCE tells us how.
You touched on 5-6 tangents with Alfred Wegener’s plate techtonics. But you are right–they are irrelevant to the issues of Sea Level Rise (SLR). I HATE trying to make the other persons argument but you have provided so little. Your strongest tangent appears to be that SLR is/may be caused by oceanic vents that are heating the ocean causing an increase in volume due to thermic expansion?
Complete BS that I will not detail as that is my best guess and not your statement.
I like the issue of AGW because I personally don’t know anything about it….. so……. how do I form an opinion on the subject……. and how do I change my mind???
The very stuff of being sentient and alive.
Yea, verily.
Since it is glaring, I should have added I hope you don’t long engage in confusing the remedy with the causation?
Too many don’t want a carbon tax, or the Kyoto protocols, or a carbon exchange, or whatever curative proposal is being considered and rather than propose something better they go after the science.
Its obvious and its cretinous. I hope you withdraw from that arena.
*…whatever curative proposal…*
Well, I would propose the ‘green economy’ where what one grows on his land can be exchanged for goods and services. Hemp. That cellulose would make great fuel (methanol) but you guys would still bitch that we’re burning something. It is impossible to instruct ‘believers’ that, yes we are burning something and it’s called the *carbon cycle* for a reason — That the world would be in danger of going into snowball-earth because I’m still leaving too much carbon in the ground with my sloppy harvesting of roots and leaves.
pet hypothesis of mine: co2 is plant food. They eat it all up. Earth freezes over. They die. They lay there and rot. They then fart out a bunch of methane. Earth warms back up.
Simba, please.
I did go back and read that little Reagan article you mentioned.
http://scienceblog.com/4211/reagan-was-right-trees-do-cause-smog/
Umm, I flubbed my above little anectode just a bit by conflating (a bobbo term) NOx with VOC’s {volatile organic compounds}
I’m most dreadfully embarrassed.
While they do point out that most NOx is from automobile emmisions {I do not agree with this}, they also note the lack of reduced ozone after stringent controls have been in place questioning if biogenic VOC’s are not in some ways hindering the O3 when interacting with NOx.
Also, they leave out lightning and Miracle-Grow as a contributor to nox.
*spent most of your time spelunking on nox.*
Ahh! Now I see what you did there; Clever.
While hitting the hippy-crack down in the bowels of the earth can be elevating, I don’t reccomend it for beginners. Nor should one go caving with just a lighter (the stobe of the flintwheel, not the flame). And, to prevent war, never ever do both at the same time!
*Your strongest tangent appears to be that SLR is/may be caused by oceanic vents that are…*
No, bobbo. I’m talking about subducting plates and rising sea-beds. Think if your bathtub is made out of clay; Let me refine that — if you smash your adobe bathtub with Dallas’ head then the water is going to rise.
Well, I don’t know what that is but “logically” I don’t know why smashing Dallas’ head into the sea bed wouldn’t be fun for him and just ADD TO rather than replace the effects of co2 heat retention.
but I have always been unimaginative in the bedroom. Why am I unattracted to perversions of all kinds?
Its a puzzle.
I’m sticking to the levels being too low… Did we miss our interglacial because of the industrial revolution and all the subsequent chem-trailing? Why do people love certain cherries but they all hate Eden?
As the graph shows, sea level today is very near the lowest level ever attained (the lowest level occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million years ago)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustasy#Changes_through_geologic_time
I see I need to elaborate…
Smush in, as in dent in the side of the tub. Do you filthy libs even know what a tub is??
*Too many don’t want a carbon tax, or the Kyoto protocols, or a carbon exchange, or whatever curative proposal*
Yawn. Well, back in 2007, A certain NGO hack would ask “what tax?” — Because he was a good scientist, he demanded proof of me that there was any kind of tax in the works and that I should back up my statements. Hmm. the more things change…
http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/about/
I’ve not seen much of him there, lately — Especially after the last batch of CRU email releases. Maybe he died of cancer because of all his righteous habits or the oil companies killed him…
I knew someone was intercepting my Clearing House Sweepstakes entries. That’s gotta esplain me not winning.
Well, did you draw down upon them when those creepy fucks stood on your porch and beat on your door?? Inquiring minds want to know…
Tim evidently back on a Coors binge says:
7/5/2013 at 4:07 pm
*…whatever curative proposal…*
Well, I would propose the ‘green economy’ where what one grows on his land can be exchanged for goods and services. /// Standing alone, barter economies are primitive not allowing for any of the activities we take today as necessary for a good life. Once you introduce $Money$ to facilitate your exchanges, then you get what we got. …. and…. btw… lots of people do barter exchanges at a low level. As usual, false choices need not overly distract us from the issues at hand.
Nobody growing hemp wants anything Hemp. That cellulose would make great fuel (methanol) but you guys would still bitch that we’re burning something. /// Only the ignorant, the posing, or the Fifth Column. Burning grown products is carbon neutral. Even most idiots know that.
pet hypothesis of mine: co2 is plant food. They eat it all up. Earth freezes over. /// Yeah==thats not the carbon cycle you just touched on but rather Magica Non Scientific Thinking that I think is your pet that you launch out of your back yard to harass anyone that gets too close to being on topic?
bobbo = 6
Tim = -2 ((thats the Coors without the aspirin))
I was thinking more of a tax-like structure. Instead of leeching wages, the property tax would be that a part of one’s land is dedicated to bio-mass production to be turned into the local converter {sort of like a garbage incenerator steam plant} instead of 3-inch needy grass. — any extra could still be exchanged for filthy lucre.
This keeps the charletons with the tax n credit schemes tamed. The only solutions with that is removal of individual empowerment. That does nothing to reduce CO2, but only dictates who can produce it.
Oh, yea; terra preata.
Imajica this, biatch. In other words, I thought you might enjoy this movie:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0085859/
Tim no longer arguing the cracks in AGW goes on to the solutions and says:
7/5/2013 at 5:09 pm
I was thinking more of a tax-like structure. /// Me too. A simple carbon tax. Easy to apply, calculate, collect and enforce. Thereafter, the free market takes over. Best use of both modalities.
Instead of leeching wages, the property tax would be that a part of one’s land is dedicated to bio-mass production to be turned into the local converter {sort of like a garbage incenerator steam plant} instead of 3-inch needy grass. — any extra could still be exchanged for filthy lucre. /// Sound to labor intense to me. I have no desire at all to grow weeds in my back yard. I doubt the economics make it worthwhile… but flesh it out, make it an option, let the free market determine.
This keeps the charletons with the tax n credit schemes tamed. The only solutions with that is removal of individual empowerment. That does nothing to reduce CO2, but only dictates who can produce it. /// Making reasonable assumptions regarding most formulations of “carbon trading”… I agree. It might be better than nothing, but it does strike me as a scheme for Algore to make another billion.
I do like decentralized “everything” as much as possible. Thats one of the attractions of photovoltaic collection. But, its not good for everyone/every issue. Market competition helps sort a lot of those issues out…… the fact that Coors Light still exists notwithstanding.
Oh, yea; terra preata.
My, my. How timely:
http://thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/15905-study-too-little-carbon-dioxide-will-destroy-earth
gibberish.
Damn posting system. Still…. this is gibberish too. What happens a billion years from now is not relevant to the discussion. I do wonder what made you link to this……nothing good that I can think of. Lazy, careless.
Ohh, that is right; You berate someone for not caring about the human race (well, only the beach-houses) 100,000 years in the future but fuck them greys a billion years down the road??
O. O. somebody said, “Yep==it will take a religion based on Green/Mother Earth/Nature/Gaia to spend more money and avoid the evil of petrochemicals. We are already past the tipping point for voluntary action to avoid these consequences. I look for a revolution, but revolution or not===it won’t be pretty.
You don’t want weeds. You suggest it is too labor-intensive? Worried about letting a garbage collection truck into your backyard? Man Up!
Any regulatory/encouragement scheme based on voluntary significant life style changes will not work.
Simple stuff.
Tim–exh a. Rebuttal:
http://scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ice-core-data-help-solve
To think that co2 follows temperature is a 180 on the universally accepted fact that co2 is a green house gas.
Tim–do you agree co2 is a green house gas?
Yes. I agree co2 is a green-house gas. And I also posit that because of the wavelenth of photon to exite up the rotational state of the molecule then one might at least think it is much as a blanket one way, as the other — could even cause cooling. like I said, I don’t give a flying fuck as it is such a small signal upon daily variation.
Hurricanes do that to — transporting away the sensible heat. Kind of self-regulating, you see? If we were to have too much heat, then we get hurricanes to convert latent heat to sensible heat high up where it can radiate back out into space.
The term they are dancing around about the ice bubbles in the snow is *firn* — that is a whole nother batch of hypothesis to support hypothesis. I’m all scienced out so that I’m gonna defer to this drama:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0120152/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8-k8LbTQ0xs
Very nice opening sequence but I HATE IT. Seems to be totally unrelated to the movie…. as I read its description.
Sounds like a good movie. I’ll watch for it.
There was another Scandanavian plotted movie a while back with women trudging around in the snow and it “may have” been about a murder too, or some other mystery, but it was not this one. I wouldn’t mind watching it again too.
Just watched the trio of Dragon Tattoo pictures subed in English. Very well done and kept my attention. Got to piss of the Swedes that the American version was very near shot for shot and dialogue wise the same movie and while totally good, the acting/settings/photography were no better. Lots of “good” American movies are redo’s like that.
“Was Return of the Jedi made a retarded flop because Ewocks are stupid?” — Alex Jones
Tim starting to fracture when posting past the quick snark says:
7/7/2013 at 11:09 pm
Yes. I agree co2 is a green-house gas. And I also posit that because of the wavelenth of photon to exite up the rotational state of the molecule then one might at least think it is much as a blanket one way, as the other — could even cause cooling. /// No, it doesn’t. Most particles/compounds/elements in the atmosphere do have both qualities and most have a net cooling or net heating affect. co2 reflects a tiny amount of incoming energy but blocks a lot of the outgoing. Basic Science…coming very close to what the defintion of a Green House Gas means. Its the mark of a religious mindset to “know” one thing and to lazily believe the opposite. Ha, ha.
like I said, I don’t give a flying fuck as it is such a small signal upon daily variation. /// Define small. Its the factor that without correction is going to change humanity’s experience on this earth—it can do this directly or by triggering heat related conspirators like methane and hydrogen sulfide and a host of other non gas related consequences brought on by co2 heating.
Hurricanes do that to — transporting away the sensible heat. /// Again===BASIC VOCABULARY. co2 does not transport heat except as being part of the air mass. co2 TRAPS HEAT. Hurricanes do not trap heat but as you say transports heat around, probably with a net cooling effect…but I’m guessing at that. Also guessing the net heat reduction is very minimal.
Kind of self-regulating, you see? // No. Its not. Basic Science.
If we were to have too much heat, then we get hurricanes to convert latent heat to sensible heat high up where it can radiate back out into space. /// Yea==except its not which is why the SEA LEVEL KEEPS RISING.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise
Total fail.
I should think it matters a great deal where the gasses are in the atmospheric column as to which way the net flux points.
As a test, Go camping the next clear night with low humidity and no wind out there {I suggest, Siberia}. But not just any camping — go squamping {squatter’s camping} inside a large an abandoned water-tank. Lay out your bedroll in advance and also check the timer and regulator on that bottle of compressed o2 you will be relying on to live because that other tank is to fill that sucker up with 100% CO2. If you awake in the morning, jot down as to how toasty warm it is in there.
I’ll repost my position on sea level rise:
As the graph shows, sea level today is very near the lowest level ever attained (the lowest level occurred at the Permian-Triassic boundary about 250 million years ago)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustasy#Changes_through_geologic_time
I’m assuming you know what a pendulum is and how the motion looks as it swings back and forth? Fastest in the middle and stationary momentarily at each end?
We are at the low end of that swing but ‘momentarily’ is still well within the inter-generational miopia — If it was different in grandad’s day then we screwed the pooch somehow.
And what a small change we’re talking about over hundreds of years. It is like 1/00th the modulation of even medium waves and breakers.
It becomes essentially an engineering challenge and If humanity can’t deal with a few inches of water they’d had hundreds of years to work with then they probably deserve to wade around in the warm, shallow end of the pool.
Venice seems to be fitting illustration of how to deal with too many kids peeing in the pool.
P.S. It is ocean *acidification* and not rise I might be conserned with even if the rise is a symtom of warming from excess co2.
But several species of plankton have been stepping up to ‘sequester’ the excess in their dolomitic bodies. — Man is probably going to fuck that up though trying to ‘help them along’ by dumping millions of tons of iron sulfide into the drink to fertilize them.
Half Assed Science…. poorly applied. Wrong format to discuss “why” you have chosen Devo. Might be interesting….. might not.
I wonder if you will ever recognize the hows and whys you denied science on this issue…. but not for so many other issues.
Thats the nugget.