On Tuesday, the National Security Agency called at the University of Wisconsin on a recruitment drive.

Attending the session was Madiha R Tahir, a journalist studying a language course at the university. She asked the squirming recruiters a few uncomfortable questions about the activities of NSA: which countries the agency considers to be “adversaries”, and if being a good liar is a qualification for getting a job at the NSA.

She has posted a recording of the session on Soundcloud, which you can hear above, and posted a rough transcript on her blog, The Mob and the Multitude.

Make sure the read or listen to the whole exchange. It’s a hoot!

  1. kiwini says:

    Next chapter’s title: Is being a good liar a qualification for getting elected as the POTUS?.

    Oh wait… the last 5 years have already answered that one. 🙁

  2. bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

    “Student to NSA Recruiter: Is being a good liar a qualification for getting an NSA job?” /// Obviously not. Exhibit One on how bad a liar one can be and still rise to the top within gubment is: James Clapper.

    Snowden tells the truth and is a wanted criminal. Clapper lies to Congress and We The People and he gets promoted.

    Nothing to see here………….


  3. noname says:

    Our government is not “for the people by the people” as NSA shows, as Wall Street Shows, as Tax dodging Big Business shows….

    It’s really alarming how Harvard/Columbia Educated Obama seemed to be the “perfect” establishment outsider change candidate. Now that we have had two Anti-American Harvard/Columbia/Yale Educated presidents, I will not vote for another!

  4. Tim says:

    If I piss in a cup in a forest and nobody is there to test it, am I still hired?

    meh, it’s all I got.

  5. Tim says:

    Well, Dallas would just call some kid three states over to facilitate vetting the applicant and consider himself a patriot.. So, yes. What?

  6. jpfitz says:

    The world is our playground. Dress up, get drunk and sing karaoke with your NSA brothers and sisters to blow off steam. Lying is very stressful.

    Good on the students!

  7. denacron says:

    ” Is being a good liar a qualification for getting an NSA job?”

    To have been perfectly honest the NSA ought to have said “NO!” Either, no that is not the case, or, “No” to show how good a liar they were.

    • BigBoyBC says:

      ” Is being a good liar a qualification for getting an NSA job?”

      No, but it helps…

  8. noname says:

    The best applicant, is your friendly gregarious closeted psychopath. They can pass their polygraph without a thought!

    Having a conscience disqualifies the rest!

  9. Glenn E. says:

    University of Wisconsin? And here I thought that the NSA got all its personnel from the Ivy League colleges, who specialize in twisting the language to suit their purpose. The University of Wisconsin doesn’t have a “Skull & Crossbones” simile, does it?

    It’s not that I think that everyone who goes to, say Harvard or Yale, learns how they can manipulate the world by subtly changing the long established meanings of word. But I have to believe that there is an inner circle of “special” students. Who get the “special” courses, that make them better manipulators. Whether it’s just for making them well skilled trial or corporate lawyers. Or whether it’s to prepare them to be well skilled politicians. Skilled at “pulling the wool over the public’s eyes”. Not something the main stream students of these colleges are getting. Possibly because they have scruples about telling the truth. And/or they just don’t come from the “right” families, to be so privileged, to be taught how to control the masses, thru language.

    I don’t know this for absolute certain. But I did know someone who attended a Divinity College once. And they told me how they learn how language can be used to twist its meanings. Mostly as a thought exercise, I’m sure. Not to purposely deceive the public or parishioners. You know, things like, “If God is so powerful why can’t he lie?”, sort of thought experiments. So I think it’s not to huge a leap to suppose that other learning institutions are taking this a step further. And purposely exploiting the weaknesses of the human language. As we’ve seen many a high ranking politician do. And learn certain rules like, “Never answer a question with a Yes or No response. Always try to answer by changing or diverting the meaning of the question.” I’ve heard Obama doing that quite a lot, lately. But he’s not the only one. Or his, the only administration or party, having done it. But I do seem to recall that the Bushes were all rather bad at it. So they didn’t give as many unscripted interviews, as Obama.

  10. Glenn E. says:

    After having read the “interview”, I found it quite wanting in details or meaningful questions. As if it were carefully edited or censored, after the fact. Or perhaps the NSA reps were careful not to allow anyone else, with any decent interviewing skills, to talk to them. No debate champs or law students allowed in, I’m thinking. Or anyone other than green college freshmen, who might excel at language skills, more than the NSA reps.

    It seem almost as if the whole interview was staged by the NSA to later be “exposed” to the public. So they went to this Cow Town college, to pretend to recruit some students. And the “right” scripted questions and statements were read at them. Because I would tend to think they’d just call the the thing off, if it got “too real”.

    • Chris Mac says:

      methinks everyone in that room has alot to learn, as do we.

    • B. Dog says:

      The UW Madison is one of the world’s great Universities. Look it up.

  11. Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

    Not “a hoot,” it pathetic misdirection and pablum…

    Nothing was accomplished, in fact I almost sided with the NSA against her smears. They are not the problem.

    The President and Congress sworn to uphold our constitution, are in fact at war with it and need to be punished for their crimes.

  12. Dallas says:

    Me : “No, the requirement is your keep national secrets, a secret. Don’t bother applying at a high-tech firm either.”

  13. Tim says:

    Why Shouldn’t I Work For the NSA?

    • noname says:

      That clip truthfully sums up American conscience quite well!

      Basically now that we are engaged in a “war with Terrorism” we are also engaged in a 2nd front in a battle against our constitutions.

      I don’t see how Dianne Feinstein can say “It’s called protecting America” by attacking our Constitution! Feinstein is nothing but a traitor to the Constitution herself by not honoring her sworn oath to uphold the constitution!

      The foundation of our freedoms is not NSA/FBI/DoD/CIA…, the foundation of our freedoms is the constitution and why all government employees take a sworn oath to uphold the constitution!

      Government employees are not sworn to uphold the NSA/FBI/DoD/CIA…!

    • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

      Only a dark (allegedly progressive) mind could fabricate such a horrible (and impossible) scenario and use that absurdity to judge whether one should work at the NSA.

      I found the offer of exploring chaos theory and new tech quite compelling….but would have rejected the offer if it means spying on every American, collecting their meta data and who knows what else…in clear violation of the 4th Amendment.

  14. orchidcup says:

    Civilization is an intricate house of cards built upon a foundation of lies. If the truth could be perceived, civilization would collapse in .43 seconds.

    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”

    – Albert Einstein

    • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

      You’re misquoting Einstein, in context its regarding perspective in his General Theory of Relativity, it (reality) is different for different observers.

      He didn’t believe God rolls dice.

      • Tim says:

        “Stop telling God what to do with his dice.” Niels Bohr, paraphrased.

        • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

          And it logically is irrelevant to Einstein’s statement, which observed what God did, and did not tell Him to do anything.

          In other words, the middle term is undistributed.

          • Tim says:

            O.K. Mr. {more likely to be an engineer than a mathmetician} tell meh about that middle term. Amaze me.

          • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

            The term in a syllogism presented in both premises but not appearing in the conclusion.

            The conclusion is irrelevant to Einstein statement, the premise upon which its based doesn’t exist therein. Einstein was observing what God does, not telling Him what to do.

            You often read we cannot compare apples and oranges. When the premise of that conclusion exists in the comparison (premises), “dissimilar properties are not analogous”—then its a true statement.

            But you can compare apples and oranges if the conclusion is they are both fruit as both have seeds surrounded by “ovaries.” Then the premise exists throughout the syllogism.

            The basics of formal logic are a must if one wants to identify bullshit as it is being spoken.

          • Tim says:

            Ohh. I get it now. thx.

            What is tall in the middle and round on each end??


            Thanks, Mrs. Premis; Been shopping?


          • Tim says:

            Einstein was kind of placing restrictions on what God does because he could not stomach the probalistic nature of certain observed processes — it was as outside his math as his was to Newton’s.

    • Tim says:

      *Now he has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.*

      There. Fixed it for yas.

      • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

        No, you didn’t. This does:

        Special Relativity’s “present”
        A visualisation of the present (dark blue plane) and past and future light cones in 2D space.

        It follows from Albert Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity that there is no such thing as absolute simultaneity. When care is taken to operationalise “the present”, it follows that the events that can be labeled as “simultaneous” with a given event, can not be in direct cause-effect relationship. Such collections of events are perceived differently by different observers. Instead, when focusing on “now” as the events perceived directly, not as a recollection or a speculation, for a given observer “now” takes the form of the observer’s past light cone. The light cone of a given event is objectively defined as the collection of events in causal relationship to that event, but each event has a different associated light cone. One has to conclude that in relativistic models of physics there is no place for “the present” as an absolute element of reality. Einstein phrased this as: “People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion”.[13]
        Today vs. Now

        “Today” signifies a “day” in a 24-hour interval to signify one’s stance within the plane of time, this is contrary to “now”, because “now” has no definite measure for its own duration. On the graph of Space-Time, the present can appear to be infinitely small, or account for a large portion of a sequence.


        • Tim says:

          But he vehemetly hated ‘quantum mechanics’ which defines exactly what he was saying; That being, that we are not all here and all now but spread out through all time and space — Everywhere and everywhen.

          stupid jewish lawyers…

          • Tim says:

            Opps. I would like to refine my remark by adding “except for right in the middle.”

            peaceful Armeggeddon,

        • Tim says:

          That is not Einstein’s quote but an interpretation of it… He was speaking at a funeral when he dropped the original.

        • Tim says:

          Fuck it. I was, will be going to the beer store.

        • Tim says:

          Is the interpretation suggesting that *stubbornly persistant* is because the past light cone seems to smear then, NOW {A trinomial breakdown approximation of that middle term to make it real and finite for the purpose of plugging it into the math we got– It is comprised of , mostly.}, and future.

          The future cone may spread all over everything equally ‘backwards’ but we seem to lack the peepers to recognize and write down what we saw (if anything).

    • Tim says:

      “Memory, prophecy and fantasy;
      The past, the future, and the dreaming moment between
      are all one country, living one immortal day. ” — Clive Barker

      • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

        Generalization fallacy, past and future are not versions of fantasy, in whole or in part.

        Confused thinking, confusing apples and oranges, is precisely why people law abiding Americans accept the Government spying on them, to catch Terrorists!

        Talk about disconnect.

        • Tim says:

          ‘Dude, Barker is a fiction writer. He was exersising his poetic license with it. You’ve got a degree in fucking up wet dreams, don’t ya??

          • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

            Confused thinking leads to atheism, an error that could have truly persistent consequences.

          • Tim says:

            Well yea, ‘Dude. There are plenty of people frying and popping in hell what knew which not to blog but blogged it anyways.

        • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

          Both good and bad go to hell when they die, but angels conduct the saved to the “upper level” to “Abraham’s bosom” and they rest until the resurrection.

          Not so the wicked, who have no rest. Frying and popping misrepresents what they experience, which is like fire…

          But that is a cake walk if they fail to repent or have done eternal sin in this life, and so are raised up in abominable flesh and then bound hand and foot, and tossed into Gehenna aka “Lake of Fire.”

          There the lay like corpses unable to move as the bodies they used for sin now communicate the undiluted wrath of a Offended God Almighty…

          Its so terrible, Christ even said this about it:

          43 ‘And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to enter into the life, than having the two hands, to go away to the gehenna, to the fire — the unquenchable —
          44 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
          45 ‘And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the gehenna, to the fire — the unquenchable —
          46 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
          47 And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the gehenna of the fire —
          48 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched; (Mar 9:43-48 YLT)

          • Tim says:

            You forgot the ‘clenching and gnashing of teeth {with the regret of it all}’.

            Johnathan Edwards of old would not have left that out, as he was a productive fire-insurance salesman.

          • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

            The imagery depicts a horrible reality in symbol…that of intense PHYSICAL pain in the “lake of fire.”

            Dante’s inferno was a well watered paradise, in comparison.

            Lazarus and the Rich Man were both in “Hades” (Lu 16) albeit angels carried Lazarus to the realm of rest, whereas the rich man woke up in planet fire. But that is an intermediate state where those who died unsaved can reflect upon their error, and repent:

            6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1Pe 4:6 KJV)

            THAT is how horrible Gehenna is, that God goes the extra mile trying to convince those who refused salvation in this life, to accept it on Judgment Day when Hades will release all its dead, to be judged. Only the wicked will refuse God’s offer, so they deserve precisely what they get in Gehenna.

          • Tim says:

            Well, at least you didn’t bring up a certain some one witnessing to the spirits in prison during his 3 days off.

            They did kind of give him the finger.

          • Tim says:

            This is just for you ‘Dude. It is also not exactly how I feel save that I wish to be contrary:


          • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

            Clearly he ripped off Neil Young.

            And I didn’t detect one original thought in the piece.

            Otherwise, apart from the music and lyrics, it was ok.

          • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

            There you do again, mocking what you don’t understand.

            The “spirits” in the hybrid offspring of those fallen Son’s of God, who died in the flood with all flesh.

            These “formerly disobedient” now incorporeal “men of renown” couldn’t be blamed for what they had no control over.

            BUT Neither did they repent at Noah’s preaching…hence they were segregated from wicked angels (Nephilim) or the Fallen Sons of God who sinned in Tartarus or men in the lower Sheol where there is torment…

            Christ gave these a chance to repent and be saved. Those that heeded His preaching were released and Christ led them in His train to the upper level of Sheol or “Abraham’s bosom’ where they await the resurrection with all the righteous.

            19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
            20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
            21 There is also an antitype which now saves us– baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
            22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
            (1Pe 3:19-22 NKJ)

            8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
            9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
            10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (Eph 4:8-10 KJV)

            So they did NOT give Him the finger…

          • Tim says:

            {this post has memory-holed also — hope its not just me?}

            Anyways, It was to point out that “There they lay like corpses unable to move… communicate the undiluted wrath of a Offended God Almighty…” negates lifting a finger to affirm “yea” or “nea” in either case.

            And to ask where hell gets the energy for those there to suffer in perpetuity? It has already expended some in enlarging itself several times over — Is it that God is not bathing those in His presense with the full light of glory or has he held some back to leak upon the unrighteous? Grudge much, does He?

            On the otherhand, The Word makes clear distinction between the material and the spiritual. The material being matter and energy {highlighted by Einstein’s famous equation of equivalence} is what is known as “Creation” and these things will come to an end along with the governing physical laws. “The elements melting with fervent heat” should not be interpreted as any kind of phase change but a complete un-making. Pffft, it’s gone.

  15. noname says:

    Obama is continuing the fine American legacy of “Making The World Safe For Hypocrisy”!

    Snowden has it right; Obama is more “Afraid of Informed Public Demanding Constitutional Government”. Obama is keeping the American public misinformed and passive with its actual operating principles and objectives of “Transparency”!

    The really scary part is how too many Americans have become tolerant, dismissive and encouraging of our governments totalitarian behaviors while getting angry with the America youth concerns, unemployed and “Occupy Wall Street”!

    No wonder our government feels encouraged and empowered to blatantly, rampantly violate the Bill of Rights! It really seems America has had another silent military coup in Washington; who is really in charge, scared Obama?

    It’s also sad how the American public has been unwittingly lulled into feeling protected by allowing its own government to attack, negate and violate American only true protection against our own government, the bill of rights!

  16. MikeN says:

    NSA gives a lie detector test to applicants. Should they take the ones who pass or the ones who fail?

  17. Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

    This blog trivializes what is a serious issue, the blogger “Me” is unnecessarily combative and abrasive. In contrast the agents are professional, patient and don’t take offense although it was clearly meant.

    Personally, I would have had her waterboarded to determine her real motives for questioning me, if I were the NSA agent.

    Our beef isn’t with them, its with those who are sworn to uphold the Constitution but are clearly violating it.

    While the slippery slope argument has proven sound when applied to Obama’s—he augmented and wildly expanded what Bush did, its clear the program didn’t start out violating the privacy of every American…and might even be considered constitutional when probable cause exists, and a genuine judge authorizes observing a network of enemy combatants in the US.

    Me: You said earlier that the two tasks that you do: one is tracking down the communications of your adversaries and the other is protecting the communications of officials. So, do you consider Germany and the countries the US has been spying on to be adversaries or are you, right now, not speaking the truth?

    Me: I mean do you consider European countries, etc, adversaries or are you, right now, not telling us the truth and lying when you say that actually you simply track – you keep focusing on that, but clearly the NSA is doing a lot more than that, as we know, so I’m just asking for a clarification.

    NSA_F: I’m focusing on what our foreign intelligence requires of [garbled] so, I mean you know, You can define adversary as enemy and clearly, Germany is not our enemy but would we have foreign
    national interest from an intelligence perspective on what’s going on across the globe. Yeah, we do. That’s our requirements that come to us as an intelligence community organization from the policymakers, from the military, from whoever –our global so–

    Me: So adversary –adversaries you actually mean anybody and everybody. There’s nobody then by your definition that is not an adversary. Is that correct?

    NSA_F: That is not correct.

    Me: Who is not an adversary?

    NSA_F: Well, ok. I can answer your questions but the reality is—

    Me: No, I’m just trying to get a clarification because you told us what the two nodes of your work are but it’s not clear to me what that encompasses and you’re being fairly unclear at the moment. Apparently it’s somebody who’s not just an enemy. It’s something broader than that. And yet, it doesn’t seem to encompass everyone.

    NSA_M: So for us, umm, our business is apolitical. Ok. We do not generate the intelligence requirements. They are levied on us so, if there is a requirement for foreign intelligence concerning this issue or this region or whatever then that is. If you wanna use the word adversary, you ca– we
    This is not a tampon.

    This is not a tampon.

    might use the word ‘target.’ That is what we are going after…

    • recruiter says:

      Toxic shock is not a job-perk. Really. We are being the most truthful we can never be. Welcome to the Bazzar… Please don’t swim in the toilet.

  18. kibitz-bot says:

    The stabbing-intercourse what is be the sporadic translator wrong?

    • Addendum says:

      Ju forgot the “he is” at the end… please don’t ask for assistance as you self-terminate; Out the door, line on the left, one cross each…

  19. Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

    The Egyptians are proving themselves more noble than Americans, both were subjected to thoroughly lying regimes, but they alone went to the streets in large numbers to overthrow it.

    • Tim says:

      Also, they are not shy about pointing shiny green 532 nm lasers at helecoptors.

      • noname says:

        Federal law, signed by President Obama in 2012, prohibits pointing lasers at airplanes in flight.

        Don’t the Egyptians know pointing lasers at aircraft is a hazard and against American law? Obama might invade Egypt to “PROTECT” American pilots!

        • Tim says:

          And it’s only as a ‘shut up slave you can’t have stuff’ measure. The danger to navigation {military = current and commercial/private = available} from laser pointers is no longer such a safety issue.

          A similar product is those auto-darkening welders’ helms only these ‘optical aids’ block out the individual frequencies; To blind them, is to sweep a very wide bandwidth so that blocking them all leaves one in the dark. That sounds pretty cheap and practical for the masses.. let me get my purse.

  20. bobbo, how do you know what you know, and how do you change your mind says:

    Two questions/issues come to mind. I have no answer.

    1. Does the universe have realities that will forever be denied hoomans? My gut says yes. It may be that time and causation are but a continuum but the tricks discussed are only available to subatomic particles….. who knows? So–the BS exists, but not for us.

    2. Likewise–its often said in movies that the most difficult thing for an intelligent person to do is to “play dumb.” Supposedly, it is impossible for a crazy person/dumb person to act sane/intelligently. So, I ponder a few of Alfie’s posts above. Sane and clever. Why then the pleasure in posting as a religious loon? Some perverse pleasure I am glad to be free of.

    Yea, verily.

    • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

      2. There is a more likely explanation but you reject it…it is sanity and intelligence goes hand in glove with believing in Jesus Christ.

      The Evidence He rose from the dead, legally and historically speaking, is overwhelming and much of it, incontrovertible.

      And its elementary logic machines are too complex to arise from non intelligent cause, therefore….life being infinitely more complex, is so unlikely to rise from some unintelligent evolutionary cause as to be impossible.

      The latest game changer in are Comb jelly fish


      Although not mentioned in the article is the incredible proposition these evolved with us…they are too different…

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Hey Alfie==I’m with you in Gods Grace but puzzle me this. I know what “hand in glove” means but is Jesus Christ the hand…… or the glove?

        Loving Christians want to know.

        • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

          Changing the subject, aka evasion of facts, a fallacy.

          God predicted in detail what will be in these last days, but in symbol lest the time line be affected.

          Also its a hidden message unless one believe the natural meaning of scripture completely, and accepting its implicit and explicit teaching. Its all data to be deliberated upon by the wise.

          Everything happening today has been predicted. The Nephilim (Satan’s angels) have been seeding mankind with the idea extra terrestrial life has been guiding mankind and its genetic evolution. Hence the abuductions etc…its all meant to deceive.

          The final world empire in Daniel was Rome, but one would appear after it as a lamb with two horns…that is Britian and America. They empower the League of Nations but it dies, but it recovers and becomes the United Nations, the eighth king =(Sith Lord; AntiChrist) rules from it…with the remnants of American military power backing it up.

          God will end the prohibition against Alternate Reality Beings from appearing in our Matrix…and because Greek Philosophical and Religious premises about the soul, angels, heaven and heal have totally obscured reality modern physics is only now uncovering, most Christians will be shocked into disbelieving scripture.

          Same will happen to most religous people, all earthly ideas about God will seem obsolete.Times and Seasons will be changed.

          With all power and truly miraculous signs, that are lying because they claim to be for mankind’s well being….the Antichrist and his Nephilim backs will seem to bring about world peace…for a time…3.5 years to be exact….and then will claim to be God.

          Any who disagree will suffer fire from heaven that will consume them where they stand…upon a demonically powered craft he will fly over any enemy, and desolate all below.

          God is revealing these things now because the scene is set, there is no longer a chance this will taint the outcome…which will be precisely what God desires…a complete separation of the wheat from the chaff…

          We will learn then who will die free…in Christ…or who would do anything for a potato.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Hey Alfie–good read you linked to:


        I am dumbstruck you read that article and did not see even in this primitive base creature the mention is made of light sensitive structures. Guess what they lead to eons later? >>>>The eyes have it.

        You can see from the article that science is about competing theories finding facts that best explain the known variables. Its DYNAMIC, changing, incorporating what is known from other disciplines both close and far from the subject at hand.

        Disagreement is Welcomed. Nothing is “incontrovertible.”

        You ended by saying: “Although not mentioned in the article is the incredible proposition these evolved with us…they are too different…” /// Ummmmm….. do you know why it wasn’t mentioned?


        because such a notion is…………..BULL SHIT!

        With the multiple errors and stupidities in your review, I can’t tell if you actually read the article or not. Comb Jelly Fish did not evolve with us==they may be the “first” or the “second” or a lost independent ancestor of all animal life on Earth. They evolved into what we became, or we evolved from them (maybe). Do you even know the difference between those two statement or are you still dumfounded by the fact that we did not evolve from monkeys?

        Know what I mean Alfie?

        • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

          Incorrect, when you say “…their strangeness, right down to their DNA, threatens much of what scientists thought they knew about the origins and early evolution of animals” what is being threatened is the usual linkage of these found in present evolutionary theory.

          “Comb jellies are more alien than any aliens people imagine,” he says.

          Start with their appearance: The marine animals resemble translucent balloons rigged with flashing, colored lights. Some species glow. When startled, some flash electric blue. Vertical rows, or combs, made of hundreds of iridescent, hairlike cilia run the lengths of their globular bodies (thus the name comb jellies). In some species the cilia are 2 millimeters long — 200 times the length of cilia in other animals — and they beat in coordinated waves, propelling the jellies forward, backward and diagonally in search of prey.

          It’s not just their appearance that is wondrous: Slice a comb jelly embryo in two and you get two half-adults that can fertilize themselves to give birth to a perfectly whole offspring. Some can reproduce while they’re still larvae. Though jellies lack eyes, Haddock and his colleagues have discovered proteins that comb jellies use to sense light. Comparative biologists like to joke that on the eighth day, God created comb jellies.

          …With just 150 known species, comb jellies represent only a small slice of the animal kingdom. But their strangeness, right down to their DNA, threatens much of what scientists thought they knew about the origins and early evolution of animals.-

    • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

      Unfortunately for those like yourself, who reject God at all costs, it is prophesied the end time will be as the days of Noah….a strong delusion will overtake the earth the likes of which only existed before the flood….the Nephilim will return, pretending to be an extra-terrestrial race…and they will claim they seeded earth with life….a lie you will gladly accept.

      Anything but faith in God, who predicted these things to come, thousands of years ago…in detail:

      • orchidcup says:

        Okey Dokey.

        We are the ones that are delusional.

        Beam me up, Scotty.

        • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

          If I pointed to New York City and told you it evolved via some unintelligent cause over time, you would believe I’m delusional.

          But even a single cell evidences technology far above that seen in even that great city…yet you not only suppose single cells came to be via unintelligent cause…you suppose that process repeated itself and explains the uncounted variety of life all around us, infinitely more complex than a single cell.

          Yes, you are delusional. Looking through eyes whose electronic signals are interpreted by a brain we still cannot make (on purpose, although intelligent), you suppose your eye and brain just sort of happened…

          You believe this in spite of reality which dictates entropy engulfs all organized states….everything decays to its simplest parts…nothing evolves.

          That;s the facts, Jack.

          • Tim says:

            Touching upon *entropy* your statement is true for a closed thermodynamic system of which we are not. There can be local pockets of un-notted and self-maintaining entities of any scale but these do require a flow of energy such that overall entropy does increase.

            What is required to satisfy the 2’nd law is that the entropy of the universe, in total, must increase during any processes.

          • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

            The fact we are in an open system doesn’t prove your point at all. Without direction overcoming entropy, the complex disorganizes into the simple.

            1)Entropy does occur on earth or we wouldn’t have discovered the law;

            2)Shining the Sun on dirt (open system) will not cause the its particles to overcome entropy and grow into the Empire State building any more than keeping the dirt in perfect darkness (closed system).

            3)Entropy must be overcome even in open systems. There must be:
            1)a natural tendency towards the organization;
            2)direction such as exists in DNA of a seed into a tree.

    • Tim says:

      It is often said in movies, “Get the pubes off the lense before the celluloid gets it good!” — usually,too late, before it freezes up and the screen looks like a yawning sphincter-enveloped void to hell.

      But, I digress

  21. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    TEA-Dud in an obvious attempt to amuse us all says:
    7/7/2013 at 10:00 pm

    If I pointed to New York City and told you it evolved via some unintelligent cause over time, you would believe I’m delusional. /// YES—we do.

    But even a single cell evidences technology /// Single cells have…… wait for it………………… ZERO technology. So far you have a perfect 100 for your score. How low can you go????

    far above that seen in even that great city…/// Nope. Not a single vending machine in a single cell.

    yet you not only suppose single cells came to be via unintelligent cause…/// YES….we do!

    you suppose that process repeated itself and explains the uncounted variety of life all around us, infinitely more complex than a single cell. /// NO… not infinite. An amazing variety, but infinity is a big, big…. I mean really big number….. You Know?

    Yes, you are delusional. Looking through eyes whose electronic signals are interpreted by a brain we still cannot make (on purpose, although intelligent), you suppose your eye and brain just sort of happened…//// No… they happened by evolution. No “sort of” about it.

    You believe this in spite of reality which dictates entropy engulfs all organized states….everything decays to its simplest parts…nothing evolves. /// As we eventually will. But within the general vector, energy is organized and becomes complex for moments in time. Ain’t that wonderful????

    That;s the facts, Jack. //// Hmmmm….. another fact: whats more useful? A door stop, or Alfie????? One of them has to be useful…… right?

    • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

      Even you can see the similarity between life and machine, DNA and program…memory and storage…

      Therefore your rejecting the analogy indicates you sensed the power of my argument, and were at a complete loss how to contradict it.

      you can’t refute an argument by denying an obvious analogy.

      If you really believe in your denial, you will support it with logical proofs and show how there is no possible similarity between the intelligent design found in everything living, and technology.

      Realize you will have to prove technology never arose from comparing things in nature, because your premise is…there is no analogy, they are completely dissimilar.

      • Tim says:

        I certainly see the similarities, ‘Dude.

        It has been tossed about that, genetically speaking, we are 99% ardvark with some squishy bits in the middle.

        I don’t feel like I’m that much of an aardvark, even though I’m made of the same stuff.

        If God were a coder, he’d probably do what they all do from time to time and that is to pull out and re-use snippets of code instead of writing every little part of the latest and greatest app from scratch.

        bobbo might be more inclined to the idea of impetus to ‘evolve’ — the *elan vital* but evolve they do. I see that as technology; That groups of genes would continually strive to get better at what they do with what they have to work with and requiring the least expendature of effort and energy. Living things are just lazy like that.

        • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

          The only thing lacking in evolutionary theory, is proof it happens.

          While we strive to improve our technology, that isn’t seen in nature. For example, if we evolved from apes, why are apes still existing? When we make an improved robot, the old robot goes bye bye.

          And point to the “evolution of technology” is petitio principii begging the question as it requires an intelligent creator to overcome entropy and make it better.

          Check it out for yourself. Pulverize your computer into dust and put the whole in a barrel and turn it to mix it thoroughly. In this “open system”, you are the energy that keeps turning the barrel so that every possible combination of molecule is made…

          Do you really expect to retrieve your computer intact, let alone a superior one?

          Of course not. It will remain dust even if Bobbo were turning the crank while ufo aliens probed his body cavities…

          • Tim says:

            Hmm. I think I let the smoke out of that one. Excuse me just one second {“shut up, bro; It was busted anyways!”} Now. Where were we?? oh yea. You are right, that smoke just doesn’t fit back right especially after it starts smelling like bakelite and hair.

            Still, Did God finally memory-hole the counterpart ‘enthalpy’ while I was backsliddin?

            The Last Question:


          • Tim says:

            And yet, I’ve got to go way out of bounds of the will of the creator of this operating system to keep it from trying to self-maintain; To update, to defrag, and to otherwise go exploring on it’s own in ways I just usually would rather it not.


            “I want to tell you the ocean knows this, that life in its jewel boxes is endless as the sand, impossible to count, pure, and among the blood-colored grapes time has made the petal hard and shiny, made the jellyfish full of light and untied its knot, letting its musical threads fall from a horn of plenty made of infinite mother-of-pearl. I am nothing but the empty net which has gone on ahead of human eyes, dead in those darknesses, of fingers accustomed to the triangle, longitudes on the timid globe of an orange. I walked around as you do, investigating the endless star, and in my net, during the night, I woke up naked, the only thing caught, a fish trapped inside the wind.” — Pablo Neruda

          • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

            And where did AC get the energy to actualize the Word “let there be light?”

        • Tim says:

          I’m afraid, young man, that it’s analog turtles all the way down.

  22. bobbo, kicking retarded ass whenever they balance on their hind legs and yelp says:

    TEA Dud goes Maximum Retard and says:
    7/8/2013 at 8:44 am

    Even you can see the similarity between life and machine, DNA and program…memory and storage… /// Yes, I can. Without exception there is one or more similarity between any two different subjects. Some more distant than others to perceive.

    Therefore your rejecting the analogy indicates you sensed the power of my argument, and were at a complete loss how to contradict it. /// No, I directly contradicted your ERRORS in fact. Do You Alfie see the similarity between you and an ignorant bible thumper? Or would that be the same thing the concept of similarity losing its utility?

    you can’t refute an argument by denying an obvious analogy. /// Dipwad!!!! Yes…… I say DIPWAD! An obvious analogy IS NOT AN ARGUMENT! What a dumb shit.

    If you really believe in your denial, you will support it with logical proofs and show how there is no possible similarity between the intelligent design found in everything living, and technology. /// Moron. There are similarities between any two things. What you leave out is that there are DISSIMILARITIES TOO!! Intelligence beyond that required in Bible School requires a comparison of both to see which dominates on what scales and to make according judgments.

    Realize you will have to prove technology never arose from comparing things in nature, because your premise is…there is no analogy, they are completely dissimilar. //// You are an idiot. Surprising you and Mickey don’t exchange views more than you do……. hmmmmm….I think I just threw up a bit.

    Ah… I do crack myself up. I wouldn’t kick a diseased dog…but that is dissimilar in primary trumping characteristic from kicking Alfie.

    Yea, verily!!!

    • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

      Insults indicate your intellectual capacity has been exceeded…the analogy of life with machine is irrefutable.

      An example, “memory” whether in the brain, or in a computer PRECISELY is identified by the same word “Memory” precisely because—-for all practical purposes, its the same thing…= analogy of the highest order.

      And just as a computer’s memory indicates an intelligent designer, so does memory in living things…

      AND keeping with my point, the technology behind biological memory is so superior to that found in human made devices…that we cannot make it one purpose, no matter how hard we try.

      If we can’t make it on purpose, how is it possible it arose by mindless accident. What does that say about our intelligence?

      What it does say about my argument, the analogy of New York City to a single cell is and overwhelming mass of irrefutable evidence your feeble arguments cannot overturn.

      It is universally known mankind got the idea of flying from birds.

      To that thousands of products could be listed here, precisely because there is a analogy of intelligent design…we can learn, augment our intelligent design capacity, by studying nature…because its intelligent design is superior to ours.

      Of course there are dissimilarities….but these are irrelevant if they don’t affect my point…

      Only a dissimilarity proving the design of life is unintelligent would render my analogy invalid and its as impossible for you to prove the design of living things chaotic…as it is proving a computer is brainlessly made, from a chaos of chance happenings.

      A Bible Thumper cannot be ignorant, he acknowledges the existence of God and is indicating what conforms to fact, that they Bible is the Very Word of God transmitted through men.

      A Bible Thumper then, is the antithesis of ignorance…and I am proud to be one of them.

  23. deowll says:

    The NSA should be scraping the internet for readily available public information and collecting and translating public documents, speeches, etc. They also may have a duty to find out what various “friendly” governments are actually telling each other such as Egypt and Libya or even what the heads of state think in private like when the several Egyptian leaders agreed we were their main enemy.

    That doesn’t mean they need to save everything on the net. They do need to profile and pay closer attention to people who have some likely hood of attacking the nation because right now what they are best at is digging up information after the fact.

    They also look like J. Edger Hoover raised to the jillionth power. If you don’t know what that means look it up.

    • Tim says:

      psst. Libya has crabs.

    • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

      You assume its about stopping terrorism. I curious why you should reach such a unlikely conclusion…just because they say so?

      Spying on you or me won’t reveal one terroist….same with spying on Americans…the terrorists don’t use cell phones or email or internet any longer…Even Osama had ceased doing that well before he died.

      So its irrational to spy on Americans cell phones and email to find terrorists who don’t use such things…But Obama and his fellow control freaks are not irrational, therefore another goal must exist for all this spying…

      It was revealed in the last election…he dynamic targeting supports and enemies won him the election.

      If there is a major terror attack/world economic collapse and martial law is declared, knowing the network of family and friends and political associations of every American would facilitate suppressing any rebellion.

      Therefore, controlling Americans is why they are spying on Americans…that is the most likely reason for it.


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