I can almost hear lawyers around the country sniffing the air, catching a whiff of the vast number of retrials and lawsuits this could result in.

A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans.

Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin – not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.
[...]
“It is one thing to create special rules for national security,” Gertner said. “Ordinary crime is entirely different. It sounds like they are phonying up investigations.”
[...]
After an arrest was made, agents then pretended that their investigation began with the traffic stop, not with the SOD tip, the former agent said. The training document reviewed by Reuters refers to this process as “parallel construction.”

Is there any agency of the government its citizens can trust anymore? Sounds like it’s time for someone to write an ironic article comparing the US to the Stasi in East Germany or KGB in the USSR.



  1. LibertyLover says:

    And to think I was laughed at when I said the government could use surveillance data to get you for other things.

    Standby for be investigated because you support a particular political party . . . oops . . . already happening.

    • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

      Of course you were laughed at. All the time. For all sorts of reasons.

      The implication is that you were laughed at on this forum for what you just posted on prior occasions? Now….I don’t follow you that closely, but I doubt it.

      Prove you are not an idiot by copy and paste of your post and the laughing response.

      Yeah… I know. Too hard. Easier just to stay in your imaginary world.

      What a silly human.

      • LibertyLover says:

        mmmm.

        Basking in the worship. Thanks, minion!

        • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

          Yes…. worship.

          Just like shit is ice cream.

          and you were laughed at.

          BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

          No ice cream, just the best I can do.

          • LibertyLover says:

            Please, not too much. I don’t want to be sunburned.

          • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

            No copy and paste huh?

            Don’t want to show everyone how prescient you were???

            Just how high is your IQ to predict that governmental agencies will share information with one another and then try to cover it up?

            Man!!!–its like you used to work in the government or sumting like that. Just so clever.

            Why you are laughed at for such a deep insight is what I don’t get.

            copy and paste????……. No?

            Ha, ha.

          • LibertyLover says:

            All this worship, I’m gonna have to get me some suntan lotion.

    • Lesley says:

      Of course it goes this way… and we’ve let them. Why vote? Bought and paid.

  2. deowll says:

    Both JFK and Obama have wonderful speeches on line of why this sort of thing is absolutely wrong and completely immoral. Of course power corrupts and Obama has been absolute corrupted. The guy will do anything to increase his power.

  3. MikeN says:

    NSA intel can be used as evidence in a criminal investigation. So the guy who is demanding the NSA’s data so he can be exonerated has a strong case. If evidence can be used to prove you are guilty, then it should be available for the defense too.

    • LibertyLover says:

      The NSA isn’t going to give up the data to exonerate that guy.

      • MikeN says:

        Therefore he goes free.

        • msbpodcast says:

          That’s not what exonerate means, by 180°.

          It means that you’re going to jail to get ass-raped by a gang of white-supremacist skinheads despite some gum’mint agency being able to provide you with a bona fide alibi.

          • LibertyLover says:

            Bingo!

          • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

            Exonerate: Verb

            (esp. of an official body) Absolve (someone) from blame for a fault or wrongdoing, esp. after due consideration of the case.
            Release someone from (a duty or obligation).

            So…if NSA provides evidence showing the guy didn’t do the crime…. how is that not exonerating him????

            ….and if NSA will not provide any evidence at all under some claim, how should the guy not be released due to such election by the government? Not an exoneration…. but still free.

            Recent evidence reveals the NSA would mostly likely just lie and say they are willing to provide evidence but they don’t have any.

            Nobody exonerated in that case.

            If you need help with understanding what words mean, Pedro and NFS might help. That would exonerate their past misuse to some degree…or would that be only mitigate????

          • pedro says:

            By white supremacist because there are neither Black nor Latino gangs in prison?

  4. pedro says:

    In related news, Germany has been sending data to the NSA

  5. Mextli says:

    Meanwhile Peter King and Dutch Ruppersberger were falling over each other to justify NSA snooping this last weekend.

    “That’s what nsa does. Nsa’s sole purpose is to get information intelligence to protect americans from attack. “

  6. Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

    THE one campaign promise Obama kept…to fundamentally transform our society, blindsided us all…

    Who would have thought Obama would exponentially expand surveillance of US citizens so that none of us have any privacy whatsoever, from any branch of the government that asks….and as Snowden revealed….even Government contractors can read emails, listen in to phone calls, after filling out a minor form no one reads….

    No conspiracy seems far fetched now, not after Obama…he managed to transform a free and proud nation, to a land of fearful serfs willing to forsake any freedom…for a little security….and free condoms…

    • msbpodcast says:

      TEAD your knowledge of history, or your lack thereof, is astonishing.

      The NSA is the implementation of Ronald Reagan’s man Pointdexter‘s TIA (Total Information Awareness.)

      But its our information, paid for with our money and it must be made available to us.

      Its qualitatively no different than all those reports that come out of the Department of Commerce.

      They know everything that people buy, broken down into a huge number of categories.

      • msbpodcast says:

        The TIA was, and still is, a great concept.

        Its just that its being done behind our backs, (where 1%ers like to be, holding a metaphorical and sometimes a real knife.)

        The internet and its capacity for almost infinite bandwidth, married with the explosion in data storage giving us almost infinite capacity and capped off with an almost staggering increase in processing capacity has led to a faster than exponential increase in what can be done with surveillance to keep us all under surveillance.

        But its being applied unevenly to only the enforcement side of the scale.

        It could be just as easily be a force for liberty.

        All it would take is a stroke of a the president’s pen, opening the flood gates to a torrent of data to all of us.

    • Greg Allen says:

      Obama didn’t “promise” to fundamentally transform America.

      Where do you get this crap?

      I googled it — he used the term once, apparently, and not as a promise.

      Besides, Bush left global capitlaism collapsed, on fire and sinking fast.

      Obama revivied it (with zero help from the Republicans, I might add.)

      That _is_ fundamental change.
      And we better for it.

      • Mextli says:

        Here is the quote.

        “After decades of broken politics in Washington, and eight years of failed policies from George W. Bush, and 21 months of a campaign that’s taken us from the rocky coast of Maine to the sunshine of California, we are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.”

  7. Greg Allen says:

    The headline to this article bugs me. I makes me feel like people still don’t understand what Snowdon revealed.

    The government is not spying on you — no matter what branch, even the NSA.

    In reality, they are amassing a gigantic dossier on all Americans — _including you_.

    And “they” includes private industry, government contractors and the NSA.

    From this gigantic pool of data, they can discover nearly every thing you have done and can probably predict what you’ll be doing next Tuesday at 9:13am.

    And by “they” I mean the DEA, Sherriff Arpaio or the tech geek with security clearance who is having an affair with your wife.

    • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

      Say what???

      spying defined: present participle of spy (Verb)

      Work for an organization by secretly collecting information about enemies or competitors.
      Observe (someone) furtively.

      Just for grins:

      furtive defined: fur·tive

      Adjective

      Attempting to avoid notice or attention, typically because of guilt or a belief that discovery would lead to trouble; secretive.
      Suggestive of guilty nervousness.

      All right there, in a book called: the dictionary.

      • jpfitz says:

        What Gregg is saying I believe is that there is no need to spy on anyone who already has a dossier built around their electronic details gleaned from various sources. If, say your at work at xyz Corp on Monday thru Friday from 8 till 5 then why expect anything different. You’re only of interest if you step outside your routines. Purchases of certain items will raise a red flag and then you could be a POI, and your dossier will be updated. I’m just guessing at how the computer programs scanning all the available data works.

        • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

          jp–I think you are correct but I say creating that dossier fits the definition of “spying” with the bonus of “furtive.”

          IOW–creating a dossier is all part of spying. What do you think?===spies keep all their information in their heads and communicate up, down, and all around only verbally? Or is a file made?

          You know what a file is also called, right?

          I don’t even think they do have any dossiers. Just a huge data base to be queried as desired. Files created/opened only on those they have specific interest in.

          Pros and Cons.

          • MikeN says:

            You miss the point. He is not saying the government is not spying, but that they are not spying on YOU.

          • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

            My point is that they ARE. And on you too.

            Am I being too egotistical to think if my gubment is spying/keeping dossiers/a data bank on EVERY phone call, email, google search, web click that I am included because I do those things every day?

            You too. ie==

            EVERY defined: without exception.

  8. msbpodcast says:

    Sounds like it’s time for someone to write an ironic article comparing the US to the Stasi in East Germany or KGB in the USSR.

    It wouldn’t be an ironic article.

    It would be an accurate one.

  9. Phydeau says:

    Wow pretty scary… first drug dealers, who cares about them? Probably next they’ll use the information for child pornographers, who cares about them? Then maybe wacky gun nuts, who cares about them? But eventually…

    A former federal agent in the northeastern United States who received such tips from SOD described the process. “You’d be told only, ‘Be at a certain truck stop at a certain time and look for a certain vehicle.’ And so we’d alert the state police to find an excuse to stop that vehicle, and then have a drug dog search it,” the agent said.

    It would be so… convenient just to use it for all criminals after a while…

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.

    Then they came for the Catholics,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Catholic.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

    And by the way… liberals don’t do this crap. Obama isn’t much different from the old Republicans like Reagan on pretty much everything except gay rights. Reagan didn’t have anything against gay people either, unlike most Republicans.

    Aren’t you wingnuts happy to have your Republican president? That “D” after his name doesn’t mean anything any more. :(

    • Spy vs Spy says:

      Yeah, when “they” (most people seem to blame Dubya Bush) decided to “release the Kraken”… these foolish political masters never seem to understand that the beast might eventually turn on THEM (none of THEM are “criminals” right?)

      If recent memory serves me correctly, former CIA Director General Petraeus is already one of the victims, and there WILL be more….

    • LibertyLover says:

      You were told there was no difference.

      Will you listen to me next time?

    • B. Dog says:

      Thanks for posting the great quote Phydeau. It had a nice ring to it. The guy that wrote it had a way with words. No wonder he was the pastor at the biggest Lutheran church in Berlin, before the Nazis to0k him away.

      • pedro says:

        The irony of the thing is that that’s exactly what the commies do as well and they’re top of the list

        • Phydeau says:

          Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it’s just the opposite.

          John Kenneth Galbraith

  10. mainecat says:

    There is no justification for these actions. None. “It has always been thus” in no way justifies anything.

  11. shooff says:

    Why a war on drugs? Where is the Tea Party protesting government out of our lives?

    I wonder, did IRS have NSA tips that the 501 c 3’s were plotting to operate outside their scope of non-profit?

    This drug war is a complete government shakedown and complete waste of money.

    Visa won’t pay for pot, but they pay for offshore gambling?

    Master Card won’t pay for Wiki Leaks donations, but won’t pursue the person who stole my card number and visited Uruguay.

    American Express won’t pay for a porn site, but they will pay for porn on the TV in Marriott hotels.

    Our Representatives are now all whores to the NSA.

  12. Classless says:

    Uncle Dave,

    You did what I had always thought was a near impossibility. You managed to ask a stupid question when you asked, Is there any agency of the government its citizens can trust anymore?

    Are you F**ING KIDDING ME?! ANY “MORE”?!!!

    When did you ever think there was any branch of any government that could be trusted?

    Did you happen to miss out on a few of life’s fundamental lessons? Did you maybe miss the one that teaches us what the biggest lie ever told is? FYI, it goes something like this: We’re from the government and we’re here to help.

    Because when I see you ask if there are any government agencies that can be trusted, I can only respond with a somewhat rhetorical question of my own. Just what makes you think you can trust any government agency that regularly lies and violates the very founding principles which started our country? What makes you think you can trust a known LIAR?!

    Think about it. In nearly every aspect set forth by the Constitution, we have now been lied to. Nearly every citizen no longer has any true right to life, liberty or the ability to pursue one’s own happiness. I say “nearly” since we all know it’s all just a matter of money!

    At any moment, our very lives may be forfeit as a result of anything from a corrupt/incompetent legal system to a bunch of bafoons running the FDA to maybe even a postal worker or cop!

    We no longer have a right to not be taxed on things that are specifically mentioned that should never be taxed. Like labor!

    We have no real right to a fair trial or even due process of law unless we have enough money. There is even an abundance of cruel and unusual punishment when you look at prisoners in American jails sentenced to 5+ years over non-violent offenses such as drug possession. Meanwhile, rapists and other real scum are released due to over crowding. Talk about cruel and unusual to an unsuspecting public!

    And then there is an ever constant battle over other rights like the right to keep and bear arms. No matter how ridiculous, outdated, or even dangerous you might see it, it’s still a Constitutional right and for damn good reason. Or did you happen to miss the fact that there are rapists and murders on the loose?

    And the list goes on!

    So I think it’s pretty obvious even to a complete idiot that there is something terribly wrong with America. Because when a country that has declared such strong convictions for rights and freedom is somehow allowed to be so perverted or corrupted to do the absolute opposite (usually in the name of public safety or national security), it’s all really just lessons in lies!

    Try examining your own motives in your own dealings with our government and maybe you might realize that your “trust” of them isn’t really trust at all, but rather FEAR!

    Believe me. Trust and respect are things that are earned. They are also things that are damn hard to get back once they have been lost too. But fear is merely an attention and obedience thing.

    • Uncle Dave says:

      “When did you ever think there was any branch of any government that could be trusted?”

      Before During the Vietnam war, when I was a teenager.

      As usual, satiric comments don’t always come across in print.

      • Mextli says:

        I lost my faith with the Pueblo incident on 23 January 1968.

        Pueblo, still held by North Korea today, officially remains a commissioned vessel of the United States Navy. Pueblo is the only ship of the U.S. Navy currently being held captive.

    • Tim says:

      ” Meanwhile, rapists and other real scum are released due to over crowding. ”

      I think it is not so much any problem of overcrowding so much as tapping a loyal labor pool. Yes, the murders, rapists, robbers, and thieves go to work outside the cells to make way for some mandatory minimum sentencing but the overcrowding is always fixed with more and more prisons — The prison industrial complex. About to be your third time caught smoking a joint? Life sentence. Waste the cop before he calls it in? Out in 20 with good behavior {and that, only if caught}.

      The bad guys go to work in the inhuman filth DEA. Unscrupulous little fuckbags — like a field of disparate condoms lined with rotting cum offgassing and poking their malleable heads just above the surface of the stinking muck; Only apparent when one is unfortunate enough to catch a grimaced glimpse at what this system’s indisposable septic tank really is.

      But the informant’s freedom( if his miserable condition can be called that) is only temporary. Like a factory worker farming widgets, his job is to deliver prosecution. And when his ‘friends’, his family, and even the last of the most implausable vengance burns are exhausted then does he return to be dealt the final murder of justice at the hand of the innocent lives he stole.

  13. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Ever notice that umbrage and naivete/wrong mindedness/false assumption rise in equal measure? Regard as Classless says:
    8/6/2013 at 6:19 am

    Uncle Dave,

    You did what I had always thought was a near impossibility. You managed to ask a stupid question when you asked, Is there any agency of the government its citizens can trust anymore? /// My initial and continuing response to that was that NO ONE/THING can be trusted, not even myself. Trusted as in a totality of trust. 100%. But reality, as it so often does, presents us with a continuum. Some things are indeed more trustworthy than others while it does seem many gubment agencies are becoming less trustworthy.

    Are you F**ING KIDDING ME?! ANY “MORE”?!!!

    When did you ever think there was any branch of any government that could be trusted? /// Unc Dave’s response is revealing and reminds us that we were all once teenagers. Trusting innocents out to make our way in this world. We are born trusting as babies must. So…. when and how we learn to untrust, and still trust, is what our journey in life is much about. Too trusting vs not trusting enough. Each has their own pros and cons, balance, tradeoff. Go too far one way or the other avoiding the mix of things and we injure ourselves as much as anyone else.

    Did you happen to miss out on a few of life’s fundamental lessons? Did you maybe miss the one that teaches us what the biggest lie ever told is? FYI, it goes something like this: We’re from the government and we’re here to help. /// And the gubment often does help. It provides the basic structure of the internet you are complaining on right now for an immediate instance.

    Because when I see you ask if there are any government agencies that can be trusted, I can only respond with a somewhat rhetorical question of my own. Just what makes you think you can trust any government agency that regularly lies and violates the very founding principles which started our country? /// Lots of gubment agencies have nothing to do with our founding principles. Don’t you get a whif of your own inanity as you write with such generalities?

    What makes you think you can trust a known LIAR?! /// A rhetorical response: you can trust a known liar to lie. How can “the world” operate to protect thinking adults as they behave and desire to act like protected babies on their mothers teat?

    Think about it. In nearly every aspect set forth by the Constitution, we have now been lied to. Nearly every citizen no longer has any true right to life, liberty or the ability to pursue one’s own happiness. I say “nearly” since we all know it’s all just a matter of money! /// Too general. Each injustice standing on its own with its own analysis. You are not revealing any truth here, only your own inability to cope.

    At any moment, our very lives may be forfeit as a result of anything from a corrupt/incompetent legal system to a bunch of bafoons running the FDA to maybe even a postal worker or cop! /// Ok….connect the dots. I lose my life to a postal worker who was trying to help me. Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    We no longer have a right to not be taxed on things that are specifically mentioned that should never be taxed. Like labor! /// Never had that right. No one in any society of man ever has. Made up BS. Is your own personal failing to understand the basics of life becoming any more illuminated for you?

    We have no real right to a fair trial or even due process of law unless we have enough money. /// I would not substitute the “unfairness” of not enough money with the also unfair occasion of two much money. But yes… I see the point. The world ain’t perfect is it. …… and your alternative and specific recommendations for change to the better are: Please list.

    There is even an abundance of cruel and unusual punishment when you look at prisoners in American jails sentenced to 5+ years over non-violent offenses such as drug possession. /// I agree. So, that is two of us. Looks like we can cry and suck are thumbs…or actually DO something about it.

    Meanwhile, rapists and other real scum are released due to over crowding. Talk about cruel and unusual to an unsuspecting public! /// Second agreement. See foregoing.

    And then there is an ever constant battle over other rights like the right to keep and bear arms. No matter how ridiculous, outdated, or even dangerous you might see it, it’s still a Constitutional right and for damn good reason. /// No–the damn good reasons have passed into history. What is fitting for frontier wilderness would be a surprise to still fit in a crowded metropolis.

    Or did you happen to miss the fact that there are rapists and murders on the loose? //// And also idiots with guns out killing innocent people in disproportionate numbers. Its late at night. Would you rather be approached by a gubment employee out trying to help you, or a stranger with a gun set on his own business?

    And the list goes on!

    So I think it’s pretty obvious even to a complete idiot that there is something terribly wrong with America. /// Yep, too many people too much like yourself.

    Because when a country that has declared such strong convictions for rights and freedom is somehow allowed to be so perverted or corrupted to do the absolute opposite (usually in the name of public safety or national security), it’s all really just lessons in lies! /// Few things are absolute. Usually a balance/mix of things. Please list your absolutes: Go!!!!!!!!!

    Try examining your own motives in your own dealings with our government and maybe you might realize that your “trust” of them isn’t really trust at all, but rather FEAR! /// I’m doing that right now trying to evict a crazy room renter. I do trust and fear the gubment employees and others I’m working with. Always a mix of things.

    Believe me. /// I do and I don’t on different issues to various degrees. You are just like the gubment and all other things in such activity.

    Trust and respect are things that are earned. They are also things that are damn hard to get back once they have been lost too. But fear is merely an attention and obedience thing. /// Is that why you rely so heavily on it?

    Silly Hooman.

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