Try to follow this if you can:

Antarctic sea ice has hit its second all-time record maximum this week. The new record is 2.112 million square kilometers above normal. Until the weekend just past, the previous record had been 1.840 million square kilometers above normal, a mark hit on December 20, 2007.  Mark Serreze, director of the National Snow and Ice Data Center, responded to e-mail questions and also spoke by telephone about the new record sea ice growth in the Southern Hemisphere, indicating that, somewhat counter-intuitively, the sea ice growth was specifically due to global warming.

“The primary reason for this is the nature of the circulation of the Southern Ocean  – water heated in high southern latitudes is carried equatorward, to be replaced by colder waters upwelling from below, which inhibits ice loss,” Serreze wrote in an e-mail. “Upon this natural oceanic thermostat, one will see the effects of natural climate variations, [the rise] appears to be best explained by shifts in atmospheric circulation although a number of other factors are also likely involved.”


“What we’re talking about is water that is 60 degrees south and more southerly than that, and so the basic thing is you have got surrounding the Antarctic continent a band of fairly strong and somewhat steady west-east winds, which they call the Roaring 40s, but then you’ve got this thing called the coriolis force, which wants to turn things to the left. What happens is that water at the high latitudes, what happens is that as we heat that water, you set up what’s called an Ekman drift, which at the surface transports that water from the high southern latitudes toward the equator.

What happens is you have to set up a continuity that has to occur so that what happens is that there’s an upwelling of cold waters from below, there’s a whole circulation loop where water sinks in the lower southern latitudes, then there’s a return flow that brings the same amount of mass to the higher latitudes. 

Basically, what happens is that in the Arctic you can warm that surface water up and it doesn’t get transported away. It stays there, and it helps melt more ice, but in the Antarctic, the water gets carried away. “

I think I experienced an Ekman drift while reading this. Maybe we need to force half the worlds population to move to the south latitudes and pollute more so we can balance this thing out….or, um, oh, never mind.


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  1. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    This thread appears to have been fubar’d by the website? Material from elsewhere has been pasted onto the discussion taking place otherwise.

    Quite confusing.

    anyhoo–timmy says the sea level used to be lower. So what? That is a true fact but how does that address the issue of AGW? I can’t guess what import you give this factoid in a vacuum. I would say most likely the ice core samples from that same time period would show co2 levels below the 350ppm which only emphasizes that co2 is a green house gas and that as co2 has not been above 350ppm for a million years…. AGW is going to kill off future generations of Big Brained Apes.

    If you know how to construct an argument: start now.

    NFS dwaddles on and says:
    7/9/2014 at 3:11 pm

    Sea level has been rising for centuries, and the planet has been getting warmer for centuries. Somehow the natural equilibrium wasn’t quite so equilibrious. /// FACTUALLY: you are wrong. The “natural cycles” would have us COOLING OFF RIGHT NOW if it weren’t for AGW. Science is based on FACTS–not blithering stupidity.

    Declaring that deep oceans swallowed the missing heat, means you have to adjust the models for more heat going into the oceans, assuming they didn’t already predict that the oceans would heat up. /// That is a restatement of the issue. A bit garbled but yes, the model said the ocean would heat up and by the measurements taken it wasn’t so there was a mystery. The ANSWER was that science was only measuring the heat of the top 10,000 feet. All a resource allocation issue. Deeper water was measured to find the missing heat and they did and now science understands that the entire ocean is involved in the heat storage/release system of Mother Earth.

    What we are seeing is heating of the deep oceans on the level of a few hundredths of a degree, at least according to their reanalysis model. The ARGO floats don’t have nearly enough deep ocean coverage to measure, plus the individual thermometers would have an error rate higher than their detected warming. /// Ok.

    So…… you got nothing.

    • Tim says:

      The link to *Earth Light dimming* is completely bogus. Shill.


    • bobbo, the only true Libertarian posting here who recognizes its a nice concept the precepts of which should not be applied as an absolute unless you are alone on your own little island says:

      Hey NFS…good to see you reviewing the literature. You have a lot of dots there. What would you connect them to?

      I looked at 4 of them and though “maybe so” but not really proof of anything.

      When Iceland slips into the sea and sea level goes up 20 feet overnight, I assume most people will agree that the ocean is warming up. Some will still deny its co2 and blame the underesea volcanoes. A few more will say there is still no proof for it being human caused….. and they will be right because that is the nature of proof.

      What would you want your grandkiddies to think?==you know, carrying around 1/4th of your very own dna??

  2. bobbo, the only true Libertarian posting here who recognizes its a nice concept the precepts of which should not be applied as an absolute unless you are alone on your own little island says:

    And Heads Up===new DU “standards” automatically close threads after 10 days. Its an anti-spam measure supposedly.