102714_otr_spencer

The city’s first Ebola patient initially lied to authorities about his travels around the city following his return from treating disease victims in Africa, law-enforcement sources said.

Dr. Craig Spencer at first told officials that he isolated himself in his Harlem apartment — and didn’t admit he rode the subways, dined out and went bowling until cops looked at his MetroCard the sources said.

“He told the authorities that he self-quarantined. Detectives then reviewed his credit-card statement and MetroCard and found that he went over here, over there, up and down and all around,” a source said.

Spencer finally ’fessed up when a cop “got on the phone and had to relay questions to him through the Health Department,” a source said.

The honor system of self imposed quarantine assumes that the person will generally use good common sense. That puts a lot of faith in people, a faith that I for one don’t possess.

Related: Maine nurse refuses to observe quarantine, her attorney, New York civil rights lawyer Norman Siegel, called Maine’s quarantine “unconstitutional.”.

That Constitution seems to be a tricky thing, eh?



  1. MikeN says:

    It’s like asking people not to download illegal copies of movies. They even form political parties to oppose it. Someone who might have ebola isn’t necessarily going to put himself under house arrest if he can get away with it.

  2. Rex says:

    This reminds me of people driving and texting. Everyone thinks they are smarter and more skilled than the average person. I can drive and text but other people shouldn’t be allowed to do it because they are not as capable as me. I’ll bet this doctor thinks he’s smarter than you.

  3. Thomas J. Devine says:

    The most disturbing words in the article are “until cops looked at his MetroCard.” Anybody notice that your movements are being recorded for later scrutiny by authorities?

    • jpfitz says:

      Duh. You buy anything with a debit or credit card and you’re cataloged.” We” will know where you go and what you buy.

    • jpfitz says:

      Even more disturbing is the Dr. lying about his movements around the city. Thomas you are clueless to the reality of the subject at hand.

  4. T.J. says:

    The Constitution is NOT tricky at all. It only gets “tricky” when you try to work around it.

    Here’s the thing. America is predicated on one guiding principle — FREEDOM! And the Constitution was written to hopefully PROTECT individual freedoms. But if you don’t like certain people having these freedoms then the answer is simple, don’t give it to them. But if you go down that road and start to deny certain “inalienable” rights (thinking you have a right to not be offended or something just as ridiculous) then don’t start complaining about YOUR loss of freedom particularly when you deny it to others or do the worst possible thing imaginable — doing nothing to protect freedom.

    Of course, there’s a flip side here too. For example, a neighbor playing loud music at 2:00AM. The First Amendment certainly gives that (loud) person a right to freedom of expression. So, does that mean someone else trying to sleep has to endure this physical offense? The answer any cop will tell you is, no! And the reason is simple; no human being can turn off his/her ears. What’s more, no one should even have to block a physical assault like that especially if they are on their own private property. In other words, no one has a right to impose his/her will on others — at least not without due course of law. It’s an almost “duh” kind of realization here too but it’s very different when we get into the realm of ideas and visual material since humans CAN redirect those senses (unlike hearing).

    What this doctor did was to place his freedom above everyone else and impose his will by moving around the public when he should have known better — just like that that loud neighbor at 2:00AM. Whether or not he was infectious with the ebola virus is irrelevant. He arrogantly disregarded every human being in his immediate surroundings when he did not limit his exposure or quarantine himself as directed by his superiors (authorities).

    If anything, this is a lesson in the fallacies of ARROGANCE! And it’s a disease every American seems to have these days, not just doctors. Almost no civility exists in the general public since the general mindset seems to be “me first” or at least, “I’m always right.” Don’t believe it? Go take a drive somewhere. If you’re unlucky enough you will almost immediately run into some prick with the flu!

    • Tim says:

      Shirley, you’re not suggesting that he should have mearly shit in his hat to come into officious compliance???

    • Phydeau says:

      The Constitution is NOT tricky at all. It only gets “tricky” when you try to work around it.

      I love this. Going to save it and use it! 🙂

  5. John E. Quantum says:

    In a world where corporations advertise flu remedies that make you feel well enough to go to work even though you’ve got the flu, what’s so strange about asymptomatic health care workers feeling that it’s OK to be in public? Bayer will probably offer an over the counter remedy for ebola symptom relief before the epidemic is over.

  6. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

    Is it SCIENCE ===OR===Politics?
    Is it SCIENCE ===OR===Fear?
    Is it SCIENCE ===OR===Religion?
    Is it SCIENCE ===OR===Ignorance?

    Are you a MAN OF SCIENCE……..or DEVO?

    Yes, my friends, an excellent issue on which to access your basic character and decide what kind of Ape you are going to be. Scientific and Rational, or emotional and devolving into a spirit worshipper.

    For the Quarantine Crowd: on what do you base this recommended governmental action? You have a list of five choices above====SCIENCE you have already denied……so what is it???

    WHY the quarentine???………on what basis??? what are you thinking, or is it only feelings? (♫… Whoa, whoa, whoa….feelings…..like I’ve never had beforrrrrrrrre……. Feeelings)

    Bwhaaahahahaha Silly Hoomans.

    There is one line of argument I think is rational: the hard science of biology trumped by sociology: not trusting healthcare workers to recognize the symptoms coming on….because you know, they are trained and experienced cream of the crop healthcare providers, doctors and nurses, not qualified or capable to diagnose themselves so we have to do it for them.

    Its a judgment call if the feedback loop for that: fewer healthcare workers going to Liberia will net out to our benefit or harm.

    How many dead in USA so far?====one. Not a healthcare pro.

    Judgement and Values. We have 12 dead over the weekend in Chicago from gun violence and the judgement and value is: guns are worth it because Second Amendment.

    Judgement and Values. How many dead total during this episode across the USA is worth it because of Constitutional Rights? ((Privileges and Immunity Clause)).

    Guns = 13,000 dead per year==ok.
    Ebola = not a single allowance.

    Hmmmmmm…..yes, this little exercise was worth it. Ebola policy directly affected by voter Non Science issues. Gun policy: just plain stupid.

    Why and how do you think and feel the way you do? Figure it out for Ebola, and you may have a key to every other issue in your life.

    Instructive?

    • MikeN says:

      I thought the recommended course of action is for the possibly infected people to stay at home, aka quarantine. Thus negating your whole semblance of an argument.

      Figure it out for Ebola, and you may have a key to every other issue in your life.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

        Its a moving target I suppose but last “formal in writing” position I saw from the CDC is the one the Nurse in question is following: if you aren’t symptomatic, you aren’t contagious.

        Until now/(soon?), the ONLY legal justification for quarantine was contagion.

        The new legal theory might be “to calm the public’s perception even when totally based on nonsense and ignornace”===but then, who of us could leave our homes?

        • NewFormatSux says:

          CDC is opposed to a travel ban as well. Perhaps they should go talk to those bordering countries in Africa how foolish they are.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

            Name one.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

            The bordering countries don’t have the resources the USA does.

            I used to think they were more ignorant and superstitious too, until I read too many comments like yours.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      “I always thought that Ebola, in comparison to AIDS or malaria, didn’t present much of a problem because the outbreaks were always brief and local. Around June it became clear to me that there was something fundamentally different about this outbreak. … We Flemish tend to be rather unemotional, but it was at that point that I began to get really worried.”

      Also said that screening of arrivals is not that effective.
      This is one of the scientists who discovered Ebola 40 years ago.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

        WHAT is fundamentally different?

        Ebola is about the “easiest” bat virus there is to deal with: don’t put your dick in it and don’t roll around in any unknown fluids.

        There is no what.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Ask the guy who discovered Ebola what is different.

          If it is so easy to deal with, then how did others get infected? Why does it have a 70% kill rate?

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Now you’re an expert on the spread of Ebola?
          Enlighten us.
          Is airborne spreading possible?

          How about if someone vomits on you?
          How about if sneezes on you?
          How about if someone coughs in your general vicinity?

          To link to your favorite subject, what is the CO2 level of an airplane in flight, and what is the implication for how much you are breathing what others are exhaling, and can this put you at risk of contracting Ebola if someone coughs on a flight?

    • Tim says:

      Hey, do you want to come to my backyard fundraiser — Bullseye for Ebola kinetic-kill variable-vector shoot and mushroom-swapping festival??

    • jpfitz says:

      bobbo, how the hell do you go from a lying God complex Dr. to guns? I don’t care how many have NOT died from his carrying a deadly disease, I care about his behavior. Lying and saying he quarantined himself is a big problem.

      Check out his posting a picture of himself wearing the yellow PPE suit. Is that the superman pose or not? The Dr. should have his license revoked for lying to authorities.

      Guns and ebola are not on the same page. Not the same solar system of killers.

  7. Phydeau says:

    I don’t see how this is a liberal-conservative issue (except for wingnuts like pedrito who blame everything on Obama). Society has a right to protect itself from people who could spread disease.

    I suppose you could take a hard-line Libertarian stance and say that everyone has the “freedom” to go wherever they want with whatever disease they have and that everyone else has the “freedom” to stay away from them.

    But Libertarians are idiots.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      It is an issue, because liberals place open borders as a higher priority.

      • Phydeau says:

        Oh, right… the ISIS terror babies infected with Ebola coming over the border to destroy America, I almost forgot about those!

  8. Bookshelf says:

    I don’t think that I should have to obey the speed limit.
    After all I’m a much better judge of what’s safe then some silly politician.

  9. The Monster's Lawyer says:

    The solution to this issue is simple. Leave it to the person that has no outright indicators to be self quarantined. The impetuous for the quarantined person to do it effectively is the fact that if anyone gets infected by them, they can be legally liable. The laws supporting this are seated in laws created because of AIDS/HIV.

    • Phydeau says:

      Right, and if that person goes out while contagious and spreads the disease to thousands, and hundreds or thousands die in an epidemic, the people who caught the disease can just sue that person (or their families can sue that person if they’re already dead) and everything will be hunky-dory! But heaven forbid anyone be denied the FREEEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMM to go wherever they want despite being infected with a deadly contagious disease!

      Spoken like a clueless Libertarian.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

        As Duncan and all the other actual infections show: you have to be near dead to spread the disease.

        Facts.

        Just LOOK FER CHRIST SAKES at how the disease has spread so far.

        Silly DEVO.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          So was he near dead when he boarded his flight?

          Facts.

          Just LOOK FER CHRIST SAKES at how the disease has spread so far.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

            NFS–what is it? Organic brain damage…or what???

            Duncan spread no disease “in public.”

            You aren’t even close to correctly understanding the facts, issues, or disease.

            What denomination are you?

          • NewFormatSux says:

            Sure, but he spread the disease in America, something that never happened before. Indeed, something Obama and the CDC said would not happen.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            And he didn’t spread anything in public no thanks to the hospital that sent him home from the emergency room. Maybe self quarantine is better after all!

  10. jpfitz says:

    Spencer should lose his license for lying, not just because he lied but because of the serious implication. If he had a fever while traveling through the city, all he needed to do was sneeze on a subway car. The guy is an idiot. I don’t care how many years he went to college or spent in a hospital setting treating patients. This Dr. is dangerous. If he had spread ebola he’d be nicknamed Dr. Death.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

      Serious claim. Just to check yourself: got a link?

      The more outrageous the claim, the more likely its not true. Use it as a guideline.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

      I APOLOGIZE. Forgot the op from its first read. The link and most of this issue is right there.

      http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/ebola-doctor-lied-about-his-nyc-travels-police/

      Total dick move I agree. Lost his Doc license?==No. Not functionally related except as a possible character flaw…which is worrisome on a human level.

      Seriously….I would review the policy/actions of the department (Police and DA) and YES==charge him with lying to the police during a relevant investigation. I am always for actual jail time—maybe a week or even better the 21 days symbollic for the quarantine, then put him on probation and maybe community service to teach sunday school kiddies why its important to always tell the truth. That would chuckle me.

      alternatively, given he will be immune to ebola…accept his volunteerism to return to Africa and fight the scourge….if he promises not to tell childish lies again.

      That should do it.

      sorry to have dropped that ball.

      • The Liberian Daily Observer says:

        US Delivering Ebola-Infected Medical Staff to Bolster Faultering Bioweapon Campaign…

        accept his volunteerism to return to Africa and fight the scourge

        said an unidentified germ theory shill…

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

          These ebola cured patients do not have the ebola virus in their bodies. They have anti (gens?) to the virus.

          Basic science even if I do forget the term.

          • Tim says:

            Those are called ‘witches’, bobbo; You suffer them not to live because bitorrent and shit.

      • NewFormatSux says:

        Now bobbo is not just an epidemiologist but an immunologist as well.

      • jpfitz says:

        The lying shit should not be allowed to work in the hot zone again. He has shown his incompetence. Never to trust this Dr again with a deadly communicable nightmare diseasr. I think he’s still shitting and vomiting his brains out.

        It’s his lying, hiding the truth about a deadly disease that can turn into a pandemic overnight.

      • jpfitz says:

        Hey, no apologies necessary, I’m guilty of the same. Not fully reading the post, too anxious to get my comments in on the subject.

  11. Mario Mariani says:

    The problem is when local government scared by local voters over react and don’t listen to doctors and to reason. It’s the chick little effect.

  12. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

    jpfitz says:
    10/30/2014 at 9:34 am

    bobbo, how the hell do you go from a lying God complex Dr. to guns? /// Its the EFFECT/CONSEQUENCES of what the issue presents. With ebola==one death. With guns==13,000 murders another 15,000 various issues. If you could solve one problem, which would it be?

    I don’t care how many have NOT died from his carrying a deadly disease, I care about his behavior. /// Just as you should. He walked around when he was not contagious. Whats the issue?

    Lying and saying he quarantined himself is a big problem. /// Link? I don’t “know” but I doubt he said that. He obviously did not think he had ebola or was sick. Reread my concrete analysis–if he was afraid he might have ebola then that would mean he had NO TRUST in the protective procedures used in Africa which would cause almost no one to go there. See the dots?

    Check out his posting a picture of himself wearing the yellow PPE suit. Is that the superman pose or not? The Dr. should have his license revoked for lying to authorities. /// Ok. Can you quote/link his exact words or are you getting this fifth hand through Faux Spews?

    Guns and ebola are not on the same page. Not the same solar system of killers. /// Exactly. Thats my whole point. Why concentrate on the issue that causes one death rather than the one that causes 30K per year?…………………..Yes. Guns and the death from them are multiplying just about like a virus. Just haven’t mutated yet to go hemorrhagic. Ha, ha…… I crack myself up.

    • Michael says:

      Geez, do you ever even read these posts before you spew your bull?

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

        Sure I do. What makes you “think” I don’t?

        Are you ever substantive, or only play patty cake???

      • NewFormatSux says:

        To quote Michael Caine, he reads, but he does not comprehend.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

          My favorite line was when he told Senta Berger he knew she was a spy right from the start because she pretended to be attracted to him.

          Its weird that he knew that AND that every Babe I have ever know has been a spy.

  13. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

    NewFormatSux says:
    10/30/2014 at 11:04 am

    Now you’re an expert on the spread of Ebola? // No, I just regurgitate what I read from more responsible and trustworthy sources than whatever FUD site you use.

    Enlighten us.
    Is airborne spreading possible? /// As you and I use the common venacular…yes. As the medical community and SCIENCE use it……..no.

    How about if someone vomits on you? /// If otherwise symptomatic, high chance of getting the Big E.

    How about if sneezes on you? /// If otherwise symptomatic, high chance of getting the Big E.

    How about if someone coughs in your general vicinity? ///If otherwise symptomatic, high chance of getting the Big E.

    //////////////BUT AGAIN–to be highly infectious, you are already bedridden and disolving into goo. Duncans family lived with him for 3 days while he was throwing up and choughing and sneezing. They did not catch it. Its later on when you are bedridden that the virus really starts to slough off.

    To link to your favorite subject, what is the CO2 level of an airplane in flight, and what is the implication for how much you are breathing what others are exhaling, and can this put you at risk of contracting Ebola if someone coughs on a flight? /// Cough alone? Not likely. And thanks for the nod to co2. That won’t kill you and me or our kiddies……but our GGkiddies will mostly die from its effects. They will yearn for the good old days of guns, god, and ebola.
    Reply

    • Tim says:

      But; What if the zombie vomits or sneezes on you while on weed underwater?? Or floats an airstool your way in the hot tub? How would you know to quarrantine yourself before you suddenly felt like shit and blew your own head off while sliding down a waterslide or frolicking out in the blast of an open fire hydrant down in da hood will all the peeps somewhere?

      • Tim says:

        ^^ That was culturally insensitive of me — Scrub the ‘underwater’ part…

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

        I assume aistool is a typo?….. and I won’t humble myself to google the term otherwise.

        PROTIP: DON’T stick your dick into ebola for six months. How that matches up with the pronouncements that patients are “ebola free” I don’t know. Nor if it only applies to party time with people who have been exposed to ebola but are not symptomatic.

        Why do I still support Mr Happy?

  14. NewFormatSux says:

    I have a solution. There was a post on this site some time ago, lamenting the plight of sex offenders who had to keep distance from schools, and were stuck having to live in one small part of town.

  15. McCullough says:

    bobbo says: “As Duncan and all the other actual infections show: you have to be near dead to spread the disease.

    Facts.”

    The CDC says: “Once someone recovers from Ebola, they can no longer spread the virus. However, Ebola virus has been found in semen for up to 3 months. Abstinence from sex (including oral sex) is recommended for at least 3 months. If abstinence is not possible, condoms may help prevent the spread of disease.”

    http://cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html?s_cid=cs_3923

    May help prevent spread? You either can spread the disease or you can’t, there is no middle ground. Once recovered you cant spread the virus, unless of course you’re sexually active, then use a condom an give up the BJ’s.

    So what kind of Science is this? Seems slightly flawed.

    • Phydeau says:

      Um, all science is slightly flawed, that’s what makes it science. Fundy creationism BS is not flawed, it’s absolutely perfect, which makes it BS and not science.

      Unlike fundies, real scientists don’t know everything, and are figuring it out as they go along.

      • McCullough says:

        Um, Tell it to bobbo.

        • Tim says:

          I would, but now i just think he’s a government agent distracting me from hearing ‘one pilot ejected and parachuted…but the other wasn’t able to and snuffed it’ <– words to that effect SpaceShipII fail…

          Now I'm just giving the internet a few minutes before I look at it to find my proof that Elon Musk, et al. did this…

          • NewFormatSux says:

            Predicted on this site not too long ago. Only Perkel was not onboard.

      • Luecke says:

        This is not a slight flaw, its a total contradiction. Learn the difference.

        But nice try on the deflection.

        • Tim says:

          Not necessarily. It could only be dead ebola found in the semen. Drinking your own urine is not supposed to cure ebola (though it should still contain no virus(??)) but perhaps *they* let slip that guzzling cum is pretty prophylactic — A rival agencies’ ‘Freudian slurp.’

    • NewFormatSux says:

      CDC is doing a better job of quarantining their ebola info from the public than the ebola patients.

      Their advice to public health professionals says airborne is possible, coughing etc. They have also advised you can’t get ebola from riding on a bus with someone, but then said you can spread it to others while riding on a bus. And why were they so interested in tracking down everyone on the plane if it is no risk?

  16. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior culture critic says:

    McCullough, using his Darwin given intelligence as a doorstop instead of an analytical tool says:
    10/31/2014 at 11:20 am

    bobbo says: “As Duncan and all the other actual infections show: you have to be near dead to spread the disease.

    Facts.”

    The CDC says: “Once someone recovers from Ebola, they can no longer spread the virus. However, Ebola virus has been found in semen for up to 3 months. Abstinence from sex (including oral sex) is recommended for at least 3 months. If abstinence is not possible, condoms may help prevent the spread of disease.”

    http://cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html?s_cid=cs_3923

    May help prevent spread? You either can spread the disease or you can’t, there is no middle ground. Once recovered you cant spread the virus, unless of course you’re sexually active, then use a condom an give up the BJ’s.

    So what kind of Science is this? Seems slightly flawed. /// Oh, my goodness. Pedro style analysis at this late stage in your life???

    OBVIOUSLY: “spread” the disease is used in the context of a Public Health concern of family, neighbors, co workers, bus riders, health care providers getting the disease from casual to contact with bodily fluids.

    Heres a general clue for you to use about the English Language: sexual intimacy is always in a category by itself.

    Why don’t you understand this without the OBVIOUS having to be pointed out to you?

    SADLY—real SCIENCE cannot be determined by reading bumper stickers. You actually have to read an article or book of more than 12 words.

    Try it.

    • Jonathan says:

      “if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.”


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