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Discuss.

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  1. Cliff says:

    Something sketchy going on

    • Phydeau says:

      ba-doomp boomp! He’ll be here all week folks! Tip your waitress and don’t forget to try the veal!

    • NewFormatSux says:

      There are not that many pens.

      National Review Online, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, the New York Post, the Weekly Standard, Bloomberg, the Huffington Post, the Daily Beast, Getty, and some other U.S. media outlets ran one or more of the cartoons today.

      In the U.K., the Guardian, the BBC, and the Times of London ran the cartoons. The Financial Times ran them on its website. Spain’s El Pais and Germany’s Berliner Zeitung also ran them.

      Noticeably absent from this list are the New York Times, CNN, NBC, MSNBC, and the Associated Press. These U.S. media outlets chose to self-censor their coverage of the Charlie Hebdo killings by not running the controversial cartoons of Mohammed because of intimidation by radical Islamists.

      The New York Times said its decision not to run the Charlie Hebdo cartoons is because “Under Times standards, we do not normally publish images or other material deliberately intended to offend religious sensibilities. After careful consideration, Times editors decided that describing the cartoons in question would give readers sufficient information to understand today’s story.”

  2. Phydeau says:

    In other threads, people have been talking about how Islam is a religion of hate, intolerance, etc. Let’s refresh our mind on Christianity… (warning… attempting nested blockquote tags)

    “Jesus merely raised one hand a few inches and a yawning chasm opened in the earth, stretching far and wide enough to swallow all of them. They tumbled in, howling and screeching, but their wailing was soon quashed and all was silent when the
    earth closed itself again.”
    — From Glorious Appearing by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins

    The best thing about the Left Behind books is the way the non-Christians get their guts pulled out by God.
    — 15-year old fundamentalist fan of the Left Behind series

    That is the sophisticated language and appeal of America’s all-time best selling adult novels celebrating the ethnic cleansing of non-Christians at the hands of Christ. If a Muslim were to write an Islamic version of the last book in the Left Behind series, Glorious Appearing, and publish it across the Middle East, Americans would go berserk. Yet tens of millions of Christians eagerly await and celebrate an End Time when everyone who disagrees with them will be murdered in ways that make Islamic beheading look like a bridal shower. Jesus — who apparently has a much nastier streak than we have been led to believe — merely speaks and “the bodies of the enemy are ripped wide open down the middle.” In the book Christians have to drive carefully to avoid “hitting splayed and filleted corpses of men and women and horses” Even as the riders’ tongues are melting in their mouths and they are being wide open gutted by God’s own hand, the poor damned horses are getting the same treatment. Sort of a divinely inspired version of “F*ck you and the horse you rode in on.” This may be some of the bloodiest hate fiction ever published, but it is also what tens of millions of Americans believe is God’s will.

    This was written in 2005 by Joe Bageant (http://joebageant.com/joe/2005/12/what_the_left_b.html) but it’s amazingly current.

    Commenters here rant on and on about how Islam is an intolerant religion, incompatible with democracy, blah blah blah, but let’s refresh ourselves on the beliefs of millions of Christians.

    Seems like the only difference between the Muslim and Christian radicals is that the Muslim radicals seem more inclined than the Christians (so far) to take arms and bring about their religious utopia.

    • Marc Perkel says:

      Just because “Christians do it too” doesn’t justify Muslims doing it.

      • Phydeau says:

        No one’s saying it justifies Muslims doing it. I’m just saying, there are religious radicals in every religion. So Christians can’t really criticize Muslims for having a hate-filled religion, because they have their own hate-filled religion.

        Of course this is all wasted on Christian fundies, who will not understand it, and in fact have more in common with Muslim terrorists than they do with me, a non-Christian, non-Muslim American.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Sure they can criticize. They are seeking to preserve what they have, not appease the Muslims like wish to do.

          • Phydeau says:

            Uh, wow. OK, Christians, with their own violent religious beliefs, can try to criticize Muslims for their violent religious beliefs, but don’t be expected to be taken seriously.

            I reject all religious groups pushing their view on me. Christian fanatics protesting Muslims doesn’t impress me; they just want to inflict their own flavor of religious tyranny on me, rather than the Muslim flavor. 🙄

            But as I’ve repeated endlessly and what you don’t seem to get, I don’t blame the average Muslim for the actions of Muslim fanatics, any more than I blame the average Christian for the actions of Christian fanatics.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            No you don’t blame the average Muslim, and the end result is sharia law.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            I blame the average Muslim if they are not willing to declare ‘not in my name.’ The terrorists don’t just happen to be Muslim, but are acting on behalf of Islam according to their declarations. Meanwhile, others are losing freedom of speech to mollify the Muslims in their midst. It’s not that the Muslims are terrorists, but they are not terribly troubled by the actions taken on their behalf.

          • Phydeau says:

            So do you blame the average Christian for the actions of the abortion doctor murderers if they don’t say “not in my name”?

            The terrorist Christians are acting on behalf of Christianity according to their declarations. Doctors are afraid to do abortions because of these fanatics. Why aren’t you up in arms about these terrorists?

            Oh right. Because you happen to agree with these terrorists.

            You’re not against terrorists. You’re just against terrorists who don’t believe the same thing you do. So spare me your bogus lofty proclamations against terrorism.

            Sheesh. And that goes for you too pedrito. Ya morans. :/

            I’m done with you guys. The stupid, the hypocrisy… it hurts to watch.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            Prolifers generally do disown the abortion bombers and killers after attacks.

            In France, they are already handing over more and more neighborhoods to Islamic control.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Muslims did publish such a thing. It’s called the Koran.

      Yet somehow clueless people like Phydeau, Barack Obama, David Cameron, George W Bush declare that they are better informed about Islam than prominent Muslim scholars and clerics who explain sharia law.

      Even the cartoonists claiming to stand with Charlie are holding back in their cartoons. I want to see if Bill Maher goes for it.

      Just weeks back, I said the hashtag should be #I’llWriteWithYou.

      • Phydeau says:

        As usual, you don’t get it, NFS. Go ahead, call Islam a hate-filled religion who want to impose sharia on everyone in the world. And then explain the difference between that and the Christianity of all those “Left Behind” fans.

        Not much difference in those beliefs, in my view. Convert to Christianity or be brutally murdered by God? Wow, nice.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          They are implementing sharia. Various media outlets are holding back their speech for fear of being killed by Muslims. Not serving alcohol, or displaying pig products. All because of dhimmis like you.

          • Phydeau says:

            lol you never lived in Texas, where alcohol sales were banned in places because of the Southern Baptists. Maybe still are…

            Sure, no doubt radical Muslims would like to implement Sharia. Just like radical Christians in the US and elsewhere would like to implement their twisted view of the world.

            Terrorists are criminals. If they get what they want, they’ll keep doing it. If they get nitwits like you to bash ALL Muslims, that fulfills their goal. I say treat them like the criminals they are, work to prevent the crimes, and don’t be panicked into foolish non-solutions.

            Your solution is… what? Ban all Muslims from America? Kill all Muslims? What will stop a tiny band of fanatics from committing terrorist acts in an open society like we have? Hey, how about we institute a police state in America to protect us from terrorists? 🙄

            Terrorists can’t destroy a country, they can only terrorize a country into destroying itself.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            Yea, importing a million Muslims per decade is not a good idea.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            You are the one bringing in a police state by inviting more terror attacks. Either that or submission to sharia law.

    • Jeremiah's Johnson says:

      I would agree that fundamentalism on any side is a bad thing but you’re missing an important distinction. In the Christian version it’s God/Jesus *personally* stepping in and raining down death and destruction. In the Muslim version it’s humans doing to each other.

      This means the Christian version gives you the choice of whether or not you want to risk God showing up and taking you out. The Muslims don’t give you that choice.

      • Phydeau says:

        Fundie Christians have committed acts of terrorism (assassinating doctors who perform abortions) but you’re right JJ, there seem to be more Muslim fundies willing to take matters into their own hands than Christian fundies (so far) but we’ll see…

        • Jeremiah's Johnson says:

          Surpisingly, we sort-of agree here. With the Christians I’d call it one-off whack jobs while with Muslims it’s institutional.

          We certainly could see a Christian cult spring up built on killings, but even there I would bet that moderate Christians would be a lot more active in trying to shut that down than moderate Muslims are.

          • Phydeau says:

            Yup, though as someone else pointed out, the Muslim whack jobs tend to come from poor and ignorant countries. Not as many moderate Muslims there, I guess. :/

            But we’ll have to see how desperate the Christian whack jobs get in the US as things continue to not go their way (gay marriage, declining church attendance, etc.)

          • NewFormatSux says:

            Keep deluding yourself. How many are growing up in suburbs in America, Australia, UK? ISIS is using social media. These are people with IPhones and IPADs to go with the rocket launchers and Kalashnikovs used yesterday.

    • Cephus says:

      Christianity is no better than Islam, they’ve just been neutered by secular society so that their more violent impulses are kept in check. Muslims haven’t had the benefit of secular society keeping them in control, something the world desperately needs to do.

      • Phydeau says:

        I think you’re right on that one Cephus. I agree we need to strengthen secular society in those countries dominated by Muslims, especially the poor ones.

        But as I’ve said, let’s see what the Christian radicals do when they sense the US society slipping away from them (gay marriage, declining church attendance, etc.) There are already “Christian Dominionist” groups making some scary statements.

        • Cephus says:

          We already know what they’ll do, they have no problem laying it out there. You’ve got American radical Christians going to Israel and trying to blow up the Dome of the Rock so they can bring about the end of the world. Christianity isn’t a peaceful religion by any means, we’ve only forgotten how crazy they can be.

          The problem with imposing a secular society on the Middle East is that, like trying to force them to have a functional democracy, it only works if it’s chosen by the people. You can’t impose it, it has to be their decision. They have to embrace it if it’s going to work long term. In the west, it evolved over hundreds of years, from where religion ruled the roost to now, when we tell religion to get the hell out of the government. In the Middle East, they’re so completely controlled by their faith and by the tribal structure of their society, I don’t think we’ll be seeing anything change any time soon.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Agree or disagree, the assassins should be buried with pigs?

    • NewFormatSux says:

      They’re in Brussels, where Belgian police officers are advised not to be seen drinking coffee in public during Ramadan, and in Malmo, where Swedish ambulance drivers will not go without police escort. When Martine Aubry, the Mayor of Lille, daughter of former Prime Minister and EU bigwig Jacques Delors and likely Presidential candidate in the post-Chirac era, held a meeting with an imam in Roubaix, he demanded that it take place on the edge of the neighborhood in recognition that his turf was Muslim territory which she was bound not to enter. Mme Aubry conceded the point, as more and more politicians will in the years ahead.

    • guyMontag says:

      You’ve chosen a novel as your authoritative reference on Christianity and the comment of a child to represent the view of all Christians. It’s worth noting that Jesus said:

      Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12

  3. NewFormatSux says:

    Molly Norris disappeared into hiding after Anwar Awlaki decalred a fatwa against her for proposing Everybody Draw Mohammed Day. Her colleagues at her newspaper did not support her, saying it is a sacrilege.
    South Park writers got censored the second time they depicted Mohammed, with Comedy Central even censoring the ending speech about standing up to fear.

  4. Hay Zeus! says:

    It’s funny how a predominantly uneducated society is so much more fundamental in their religion(s).

    What’s really funny is how those religions eventually morph into traditions and then become nearly impossible to break when confronted by any (controversial) facts.

    That said, I say the problem with Islam fundamentalism is that it has become a tradition in a society that hasn’t progressed much since the stone age. Sure, some have progressed but the majority of the Islamic populous is still barely aware that the earth is round. So, when you make a joke about their ignorance they instinctively know it’s true and then hate you for the humor (as it hits a little too close to home like most insulting jokes do).

    The only advantage Christian believers have had over the years is that they have almost been forced into obtaining an education. Despite all their kicking and screaming, they are much more tolerant of any (new) knowledge but still quite ignorant.

    Ain’t it funny how education and knowledge is always the enemy of religion?

    • Phydeau says:

      Excellent point HZ, Christian societies back in the days of ignorance had their own disasters: The Crusades, witch burning, the Inquisition. So the problem is less the religion itself and more the ignorant societies behind it. The more “westernized” Muslims are by and large as open-minded as Christians.

      So maybe the solution is to bring the ignorant societies that breed terrorists into the 21st century. Don’t know how we’d do that though. Maybe the internet helps, let the young people see what’s out there. Or maybe they’ll see how rich we are and how poor they are and become even more radicalized…

      • Jeremiah's Johnson says:

        Airdrop the entire Middle East with porn DVDs, booze and cigarettes, then just for fun, use crop dusters to coat the cities with powdered ham.

        • Phydeau says:

          lol is that “civilization”? 🙂

          • Jeremiah's Johnson says:

            Well, they’re things that are available in a *free* society at least. (The ham is just spite on my part.)

  5. IM72 says:

    I sure would like to be around to experience how you people react when the truth finally clicks in your minds. I really love to watch awakenings. I know God’s Holy Spirit has reasons for timing things as He does. It’s just that when I see people wake up I have a tremendous emotional response.

    • Phydeau says:

      Which true religion are you referring to, Christianity or Islam? Or Judaism?

      So many One True Religions to choose from! 🙂

  6. NewFormatSux says:

    These terrorists were perhaps following the advice of Obama.

    “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. “

  7. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and junior Culture Critic says:

    Phydeau you really are posting with a broad brush, when as we know, the devil is in the details.

    Soooooo many isues, how to pick which might be profitable?

    All clashes of civilizations are nuanced with innocents to be slaughtered no matter what position is taken.

    The biggest brush you use is to equate Western Judeo Christian SECULAR society with the Islamic Caliphate demand for government BY religion. (Whats the term for that?) Yes, that is a general statement with lots of exceptions BUT it captures the dispute that has caused this thread to be posted.

    I’m also constrained to add that when a Christian fundie kills an abortion doctor, he is caught and put in jail. When a Muslim fundie kills an unveiled woman, he is lauded as a Knight of the Profit.

    ……………..maybe the biggest?==>nobody ever cares what a moderate says, because moderates are the dead weight the activists herd like sheep. Fun to see the dynamic.

    Take this as an example: lets assume that most of the whites who first came to America were good people who wanted the best for the Native Indians?……….who cares? Its not relevant when the issue is a CONFLICT OF CIVILIZATIONS. Once the Indians did not REPULSE the invading whites, they and their civilization were doomed to run casinos. Doesn’t matter that 99.9% of whites would have lived peaceably with Indians if they were given the choice.

    thats how reality works. Can you deal with reality Phydeau?

    And that is the Reality of the Conflict of Civilizations right now between Western Secular Society and the Muslim Religions. We are the Indians and they are the White People, with all the nice people getting hosed one way or the other.

    My tolerance is already about zero for religionists to begin with. Throw in fundies that will kill me for criticizing them and I say to hell with them. Diversity has its limits.

    • Phydeau says:

      Good point bobbo, the devil is in the details, I agree. But when talking about terrorism in America, one detail is that doctors are still dissuaded from performing abortions by the threat of more violence, even when the killers are jailed, because there are more fanatics ready to take up the cause.

      And I dunno about the Europeans wanting to live peacefully with the native Americans… they wanted land to farm, and the natives had it. Set up a conflict that the Europeans won with guns and smallpox.

      See my discussion with Cephus in this thread… I agree that religious fundies seem to rule the middle east and it isn’t going away soon. I don’t know how we handle terrorists willing to give their lives to perform terrorism. Turn the US into a police state? Or just try to prevent it as much as possible and accept the occasional times it happens?

      Interesting article here about Islam, seems like not *everyone* thinks images of Mohammed are blasphemy.

      http://slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/01/08/charlie_hebdo_and_islam_what_that_radical_cleric_in_usa_today_gets_wrong.html

      And speaking about the gray areas, here’s another article with a bit more nuanced view of Charlie Hebdo:

      http://slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/01/charlie_hebdo_the_french_satirical_magazine_is_heroic_it_is_also_racist.html

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Thanks Phydeau….we rarely talk ….. mostly because our agreement overlaps so much…MAKING…our disagreement here something we both might learn from?

        I’ve read the thread…lots of issues. You did hit on what I think is most important: what to do? Assume that USA will moderate the Muslim here or avoid the problems that France now and Britain soon are coming to face? Like AGW—the sooner the better I say.

        You challenge above:

        “Sure, no doubt radical Muslims would like to implement Sharia. Just like radical Christians in the US and elsewhere would like to implement their twisted view of the world. /// Well, its not “just like” because the radical Christians in USA are small groups without power or influence. The Sharias however constitute entire government and large groups in active rebellion against their brothers and sisters. Thinking in monolithic terms and making false equivalencies there from is not good.

        Terrorists are criminals. If they get what they want, they’ll keep doing it. If they get nitwits like you to bash ALL Muslims, that fulfills their goal. I say treat them like the criminals they are, work to prevent the crimes, and don’t be panicked into foolish non-solutions. //// I can interpret this either way for a yea or nay response…so I’ll skip.

        Your solution is… what? Ban all Muslims from America? /// I would be more aggressive about banning those who have shown themselves to be opposed to our Basic Freedoms. More difficult with current citizens… with all its faults, I see the appeal of Loyalty Oaths, or at least Non Determined Enemies to our Way of Life Oaths?

        Kill all Muslims? /// No. Has that been suggested by anyone?

        xxxx/Pros and Cons.

        Terrorists can’t destroy a country, they can only terrorize a country into destroying itself. /// so….the wrong respons to terrorism can destroy our country? I agree. True enough as stated…but there are many examples of civil strife between groups of people as variously defined, most commonly by having different religions. ….. What to do?

        At least two prongs: yes, catch the criminals, but then address the “source” as well. I see no reason at all not to act on reports of Mullahs teaching hate in an American Mosque. The idea that we can’t surveil a Mosque because of religious freedom is just silly in my book. As you said==catch the criminals, religious or otherwise.

        Not giving favored nations trading status to countries that forbid the building of non-Muslim churches in their countries (Saudi Arabia) would be another.

        We could start a list?

      • Cool Whip says:

        Phydeaux, one thing that you fail to mention but that I’m sure we can all agree on (no matter what our personal beliefs are), is that abortion is also a fundamentally violent act. Unfortunately, it has become like an article of faith to some and a measuring stick by which to judge the so-called intelligence and ethical worthiness of whole segments of society.

    • Phydeau says:

      Other details: google the subject of France and minorities and you’ll find that the French can be rather racist, and the Muslim minority has been heavily discriminated against. Not to excuse any terrorism, but it’s akin to throwing gas on the fire…

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Gasoline on fire is not an excuse….its the cause of the fire that rages larger.

        Yes….France is more racist/less accepting of other cultures==does the difference matter? They certainly weren’t racist when they opened their borders to take in their Muslim brothers from their colonial estates.

        Cause vs effect. Who exactly isn’t adapting to whom in order to get along? French Nationalism is part of the problem, Muslim Fundamentalism is 10 times that issue.

        The Irish would still be having problems in America if they were staunchly Catholic, forced their morality on to others, ate nothing but potatoes, and wore all green clothing. People don’t like that. Same with Muslims.

        Easy Peasy.

        • Phydeau says:

          I think the first generation or two of immigrants keeps the old customs, until their kids integrated into American culture. How many years were the Irish discriminated against in America? I don’t know. But they managed to integrate. Of course the more different you look the tougher it is to integrate, and a different skin color is much more different than a slightly different English accent.

          An interesting case study of how France treats the non-French is the (Muslim) Harki group from Algeria. They fought on the side of the French in the Algerian war for independence in the 50s, and when the French pulled out they very coldly left the Harkis to be massacred by the other Algerians. The relatively few they let into France were segregated in large housing developments, slums really, and to this day remain second-class French citizens. There are many things I like about the French, but their racism is something I don’t. :/

          Not that this kind of treatment justifies violence, but you can see how it might inflame existing resentments.

          Since we’re all immigrants in America, I think we deal better with differences than France, Germany, etc. whose civilizations evolved over a long time with a single culture.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

            Is there any real tension here?

            The French are racists as you describe AND the Muslims are refusing THEMSELVES to integrate (sic!)

            Lots of parallels to USA treatment of blacks. BIG difference: the blacks want to be American with American religion and culture.

            …..ha, ha….yes….LOTS OF PARALLELS and DIFFERENCES to illustrate the issues.

            Hmmmmm…..its a conservative ploy to call any criticism of a racist to be a racist themselves. You “might be” doing this somewhat? Are the French being racists…..or something with the same mechanism but targeting a different issue?……..like culture/religion/nationalism and race or more accurately ethnicity is carried along irrelevantly but confusingly in its wake?

            How to get to the center of this culture clash? I reminded myself it is so often said: free the women and the culture will change.

            In addition to catching the criminals as more invasively described, I think I would go after the Muslim culture. Like the French: deny the wearing of the veil in public, prosecute the teaching of No First Amendment and the like. Do something “indirect” that has a real impact on the culture.

            Maybe start a “close” but competing religion to help fractionalize and negate the crazies. 7th Day Muslims, Born Again Muslims, etc.

            I do think the issue will be overtaken by AGW. I don’t know if that rises to a Pro for AGW….but its there: all of us living with camels in the desert, too poor to bother our neighbors.

            Ha, ha……silly hoomans. Still religious and arguing about it in 2015.

  8. NewFormatSux says:

    the man said, “I’m not going to kill you because you’re a woman, we don’t kill women, but you must convert to Islam, read the Quran and cover yourself,”

    The above is a quote that the NYT decided to remove from its copy, because they don’t want their audience to think too badly of the shooters and their motives. Instead they make it look like they are nice guys who wouldn’t kill women.

    Perhaps instead of not importing Muslims we should deport liberals.

  9. Hmeyers says:

    The stereotypical “atheist” is usually the biggest double-talking hypocrite that claims to be scientific and factual, but is just emotional with an axe to grind and starts bringing up weird shit that happened 500 years ago.

    Which isn’t the opposite of a religious nut, but rather a different flavor of nut.

    Are some religions shittier than others? Yes.

    “Turn the other cheek” — I don’t think you’ll hear that expression in Islam.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      I just assume all religions are full of hypocrisy and doublespeak, so I googled:

      “Repel (evil) with peace. Then will he, between whom and thee was hatred, become as it were thy friend and intimate. And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint.” Chapter 41, Verse 34 and 35

      “Turn thou then from them [haters], and say, ‘Peace’: In the end they shall know their folly.” (43:89)

      etc. Does make me think of butt cheeks for some reason……

  10. norman says:

    scussi moi, i’ve bot read scroll since lasssi confession- (she a bitch)

    EPISODE 685

    maybe alfwayz uinnz

    ’emitthane’ tundra gaz prom from our evil russian landlord

    now i forgette what i was going to say

    smoke then-if ye got’m

    • norman says:

      okey now i read comments, smoke them if ye got them, at ease soldgiers

  11. norman says:

    sometimes i’m peasantly surprised to find another micro-wave tv dinner in me freezer

    • Tim says:

      Many people think that they spontaneously generate in there. But if one looks closely they will find a small drainhole in the corner where Swanson has been getting in and doing the nasty all along.

      What color is your freezer??

  12. norman says:

    how do i sign- out of here

  13. F*ck JOhn Dvorak says:

    Still using the most pathetic commenting system on the web I see.

    • ± says:

      It is true that the comment system truly sucks here. If I didn’t grow up with PC Mag, I wouldn’t have stopped here longer than the two seconds to figure out that it is non-hierarchical. Sometimes it takes too much effort to see who is responding to whom. With a true hierarchical posting system, people like bobbo and Phydeau become irrelevant and you don’t have to ban them since people have no one to blame but themselves for clicking on their post/links to make their effluvium visible.

      Reddit’s system is best or near best. If dvorak.org adopted it, it would soon surpass reddit as the place to hang.     🙄     😉

  14. ± says:

    This summarizes our pusillanimous media on the issue.

    http://assets.patriotpost.us/images/2015-01-08-0622df25_large.jpg

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Do you have an example of a pc media statement that supports the cartoon?

      • NewFormatSux says:

        I posted above the NYT’s editing.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          Just because I assume you think you responded….why not respond: just google it?

          When you don’t support your own argument…its an admission that only Pedro will support you.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            If the link is too powerful, then he will say he was unable to open it or pretend not to understand it, or some other excuse. I think he may be an alternate personality of Mr ConFusion.

      • ± says:

        You aren’t getting it. This should be bigger than all the recent cop related killings combined. And it won’t be because of the LACK of coverage and outrage.

        So what’s it like being on double secret probation?

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          Hmmmm….+-==you can’t be referring to USA response to terrorism against the USA? 9-11, airport security, NSA surveillance is about 50% of the articles posted right here at DU.

          So……..you must be talking about the general failure of USA Liberal Media to cover the growing threat of terrorism in Europe?

          Rachel Maddow had a good 15 minute segment on the terrorism threat history in France. Quite different than in the USA, quite informative.

          Now, lets see. Do I think you want to mindlessly bash what you dog whistle as Liberal Media, or that you have made a plea for more coverage of European cultural events?

          ……………………….Not…..even……..close.

  15. Sheesh says:

    I thought we were rid of bobbo, and then he comes back……and Norman re-appears at the same time.

    Coincidence?

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      If you find out, let me know. I was distressed about that as well.

  16. LibertyLover says:

    Islam, as a religion, is different from any other mainstream religion on Earth. No other religion teaches taking care of yourself first, family second, and society last. This is the true meaning of Jihad — it just so happens the best way to practice Jihad is by dying in the war against the infidel, thus the misconception.

    Islam will never undergo a reformation as Christianity did without changing the basic structure of the belief system. Westernized Muslims get around that by ignoring large chunks of the Koran — in other words, they have formed their own religion, kinda like Baptists formed their own religion from the Catholics, etc.

    At least this is how it was explained to me by numerous “Westernized” Muslims.

    We are never going to be rid of these problems as long as there are people who still believe in Jihad.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      “We are never going to be rid of these problems as long as there are people who still believe in Jihad.” /// Good example of circular reasoning….sounds good…totally devoid of meaning or analysis or solutions.

      No recognition you were talking to people who are living in a reformed religion about how it was impossible to reform their religion?

      No?

      How much of the Bible do you estimate is totally ignored?

      Does remind me why I think Christians get along slightly better than Muslims: they came to the fore during the Roman Ascension and were oppressed and put to death when they got too uppity, so the religion adopted the notion of “Render unto Cesar what is Cesars) and that leads to separation of church and state. something the Muslims did not suffer/experience and so they want Jihad/Sharia because their religion did not get hammered into civilized behavior.

      History. A thread here, a thread there.

      Its always the same: people being people.

      Silly Hoomans.

  17. Rottenham says:

    If we called this behavior (in Paris) the work of a ghetto gang of homicidal sociopaths, we’d all give the police a standing ovation and cry “encore!”. When the exact same behavior is called the work of a “religion,” some of us get all philosophical about it. Stomp them like bugs.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Two different issues.

      Thinking is hard.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      No, Al Sharpton would be there marching against the police.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Unthinking knee jerk conservative response.

        Note: Al Sharpton is NOT in France marching against the police.

        Good example of Dog Whistle Political Nonsense.

        Why not…………argue better?

        Start by picking the issues you wish to contest?

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Do you not understand the meaning of ‘if’?

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

            NFS–ok, I see that with your kind direction. You don’t think Al Sharpton would lose credibility doing that?

            heh, heh.

            Like I said…kneejerk reaction/thinking is hard. So much easier to blow a whistle and see who responds?

    • Cgpnz says:

      Since when do gangs do suicide? There is a belief in an afterlife reward here.

  18. Cgpnz says:

    The French are acting like frogs on a hot plate.

    The only effective response to this is to destroy I Ryan’s centrifuges immediately. This would be a forceful action rather than panicked chicken-shit pacifist marching.

    The jaddy’s are licking their lips just as in 9/11 and imagining what could happen if an army rather than three individuals attacked.

    • omissible think tank inc. says:

      Their jaddy army will get here, look around and find no jaddy-offensible freedoms, declare “mission accomplished”, and turn around and go back to their jaddy homes and skinny-ass jaddy wives because the cool and damp here makes the carburetors in their Datsuns freeze up.

  19. NewFormatSux says:

    Why wasn’t Obama there. To not send anyone to this is a deliberate action on his part, just like making the Dalai Lama leave through the garbage, or publishing a photo of him on the phone with Netanyahu and he has his shoes on his desk.

  20. NewFormatSux says:

    ‘The populations of Europe are aging fast, so more immigrants will be needed to support the pensioners, and these will largely be Muslim immigrants. For this increasingly Muslim Europe to define itself against Islam would be ridiculous and suicidal… Let’s imagine, for a moment, Europe in 2025 at its possible best. A political, economic, and security community of some forty free countries and 650 million people, embracing all the lands in which the two world wars began, and producing, still, a large part of the wealth of the world. A further 650 million people, born in the most explosive parts of the early twenty-first-century globe, but now living in a great arc of partnership with this European Union, from Marrakesh, via Cairo, Jerusalem, Baghdad, and Tbilisi, all the way to Vladivostok. That would not be nothing.’

    Garton Ash

    The correct answer is to deport the liberals.

  21. Glenn E. says:

    All those menacing ink pens, can’t represent the rest of the corporate owned and controlled press. Who will go right back to censoring and self-censoring the news. Regardless of whether or not, any band of terrorists are threatening. The press’ respective boards of directors, scares their editors more than guns and bombs.

    The cartoonists drawing up these “Charlie” solidarity panels, may believe it’s the truth. Or may just be following orders. I’d say it’s hypocrisy, in any case. As the press continues to chose to not ruffle the feathers of governments, or well armed factions, by suppressing the news that might upset them. And we can count on most (if not all) of them to keep pulling their punches.

  22. Phydeau says:

    Just in case anyone’s still reading… the problem in French prisons with petty criminals turning into Muslim radicals:

    http://slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/01/13/radicalization_in_french_prisons_moderate_muslim_chaplains_beg_for_more.html

  23. deowll says:

    Most American networks say they are PC and won’t show those offending cartoons. This never bothered them when it came to Christians so I’m calling them out as PC on the outside and yellow on the inside.

    Of course PC in this case simply means a bigoted hate monger scared so bad they are messing in their pull ups.


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