“If we wash our hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless we side with the powerful — we don’t remain neutral.”



  1. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

    Phydeau says:
    3/5/2015 at 12:38 pm

    Give it up bobbo… I understand that you think Israel has done no wrong /// I’ve never said anything close to that. IN FACT JUST THE OPPOSITE as that is what realpolitik is all about.

    and that the enemies of Israel are 100% responsible for the death and destruction in the middle east. /// See above.

    There’s no reasoning with that. I’m done here. /// You would find reason in what I actually posted, rather than your faulty reformulations.

    Meanwhile: you don’t even respond to direct questions put to you that if you paid a bit more attention might change your mind.

    Like: What does “Never Again” mean? You know Phydeau==answer the question, consider its important, rather than repeating old arguments. Stop accusing “me” of what only you do. Thats called false equivalence.

    I have never said Israel should Nuke Iran===only that if they don’t, Iran would Nuke them, or the risk was certainly one that reasonable people could take seriously.

    You know…. more subtle than the wishy washy position you confuse with even handedness.===eg==I do wonder what you think your last quote/post even means?

    “Phydeau says:
    3/5/2015 at 12:38 pm

    Give it up bobbo… I understand that you think Israel has done no wrong /// I’ve never said anything close to that. IN FACT JUST THE OPPOSITE as that is what realpolitik is all about.

    and that the enemies of Israel are 100% responsible for the death and destruction in the middle east. /// See above.

    There’s no reasoning with that. I’m done here. /// You would find reason in what I actually posted, rather than your faulty reformulations.

    Meanwhile: you don’t even respond to direct questions put to you that if you paid a bit more attention might change your mind.

    Like: What does “Never Again” mean? You know Phydeau==answer the question, consider its important, rather than repeating old arguments.” /// Since you don’t answer direct questions, I’ll do it for you: this means that RELIGION plays a role in the issue that is NOT PRESENT in consideration of normal geo-political questions. Not North Korea, Not Russians.

    I’m starting to doubt you can see the differences.

    Politics is not Kumbaya.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

      My copy paste function fubar’d there.

      Last argument was in response to Phydeaus very apt comment: “Phydeau says:
      3/5/2015 at 12:43 pm

      The problem with God giving you land is when someone else already living there has a different God… /// as it is this reality that makes the threat from Iran more credible than mere bluster.

      Sad when brains are used for doorstops.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Phydeau, the Koran says Israel belongs to the Jews.

  2. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

    On my dvr of Morning Joe:

    The Ayotollah tweets on Nov 8: “This barbaric, wolflike and infanticidal regime of Israel which spares no crime has no cure but to be annihilated.”

    /// Yeap…could be interpreted a number of ways but in response to what does the foreign minister say to those who express concern about this kind of statement, he says: “Israel kills innocent children in Gaza,….we are not talking about annihilating the jews ….”

    Must be a language issue?

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Sure, they are just talking about the regime see. They are OK as long as Israel becomes a state that is majority Muslim with Jews living in dhimmitude.

      • deowll says:

        Actually no. They say bleep to the west but what they teach in their schools is the Jews must die!

  3. Phydeau says:

    Bobbo, I know you think you’re being even-handed, but I don’t think you are. Sorry if I seem dismissive, but I’ve been arguing with people like you for decades. And it always ends up the same.

    Look at my post of 12:43 for my final comment.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

      I don’t consider, and am not trying to be even handed. Rather, and to the point, I am making simple declarative statements. You do not respond on point…. and you do severely mischaracterize what I have posted to the point of making the opposite point.

      You have gotten lazy. Too much arguing with the likes of Peedroll where mere insults are the given currency.

      I CHALLENGE YOU==prove me wrong.

      EG==Have you answered directly most of my direct questions to you? What does “Never Again Mean?”

      EG==Copy and Paste where I said Israel has done no wrong. DO IT!!!!===and when you can’t, recognize how sloppy your analytical skills have become.

      You can learn your way out of this hole…… if you want to.

  4. 206th Post says:

    What was the question?

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

      The validity/application/effect of ““If we wash our hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless we side with the powerful — we don’t remain neutral.”

  5. tigerjuju says:

    The problem with the statement is it assumes people with power is always bad/guilty, and people without power is always good/innocent. Just good/evil of people by the actions they have chosen to take, not how much power they have to act out those actions.

  6. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

    Common Sense says:
    3/9/2015 at 1:48 am

    That doesn’t even make sense…
    a typical response from pro-Jew assholes. //// Common sense? Lots in politics doesn’t make any sense but the “outline” NFS set forth is essentially what happened.

    …………..making it clear what kind of asshole YOU are.

    Usually enough tp to go around, but don’t forget to wipe.

    Silly Hoomans.

  7. Phydeau says:

    Meanwhile, Senate Republicans are giving aid and comfort to the enemies of America by trying to f*ck with the Executive Branch’s foreign policy negotiations:

    http://bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-09/republicans-warn-iran-and-obama-that-deal-won-t-last

    If Democrats had tried this during the reign of CheneyBush y’all would have sh*t two bricks sideways out of indignation. But IOIYAR.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      You mean like when they visited Baghdad, declaring they wanted to stop the war?

      I don’t think liberals should be talking much about what powers are reserved to which branches of government.

      • Phydeau says:

        Yup, it was wrong when three Democratic congressmen went off on their own to do it, and it’s wrong when almost the entire Republican Senate is doing it.

        Don’t you agree?

    • NewFormatSux says:

      So now you think Iran is an enemy of America?
      Could you describe this aid and comfort being given?

      • Phydeau says:

        Reading comprehension, NFS. I didn’t say Iran was the enemy. I just said that when the world sees one part of the US government trying to undercut another part of the US government, it makes us appear weak and conflicted to the rest of the world. You know this. Don’t be dense. 🙄

          • NewFormatSux says:

            Be nice if Biden had said such things in the past when he was in the Senate. Like when Nancy Pelosi tried her own diplomacy in Syria.

            Yes, I agree with Kelly Ayotte. However, the Obama Admin has made clear that they don’t care about the checks and balances in the Constitution, and will ignore any Senate approval role.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          >Senate Republicans are giving aid and comfort to the enemies of America

          Which enemies did you have in mind?

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

            Ummmm….how wrapped up in the heat of battle do you have to be to forget the very premise of it?

            IE==yes Iran is “an enemy” of the USA. We don’t put our friends under sanctions that cripple their economies.

            Why?–Because Iran is the Worlds Largest sponsor of Terrorism….among other issues ((because Saudi’s are No 2?—dontcha love politics???)).

            You know what arguing while forgetting the premise is? …………. yes …. a sonombulating kneejerk response.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            Ask Phydeau, who said he didn’t say Iran was an enemy.

          • Phydeau says:

            Henry John Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston, a British prime minister in the 1800s, has been quoted as saying

            Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.

            Various nations have been our friends and enemies over the years. Times change, and alliances change. But we should engage in diplomacy with everyone, regardless of their current status. As Winston Churchill said:

            To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war.

            Right now Iran is our “enemy” but it serves us to negotiate with them. At times in the past they have not been our “enemy” and in the future they probably won’t either. So negotiating is important.

            Of course, right-wing fundies of all stripes hate this. They want war!!!! That’s why we have the right-wing fundies in the US Senate, led by Tehran Tom Cotton, making alliance with the right-wing fundies in the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, trying to sabotage the current negotiations.

          • Phydeau says:

            Perhaps the Senate Republicans and the Revolutionary Guard should have a joint press conference, announcing their unified opposition to the negotiations. They obviously have so much in common.

          • Phydeau says:

            Anyone? Bueller?

          • NewFormatSux says:

            So now you think Iran sin’t being led by hardliners, but have a Revolutionary Guard that opposed Obama’s desire to give them nukes.

    • Phydeau says:

      What do the Republicans in the Senate have in common with the hard-line radicals in Iran who also want to block the negotiations?

      • Phydeau says:

        LOL about Tom Cotton’s nickname:

        Tehran Tom asks Iranian Revolutionary Guards for help in battle against US diplomats

        https://twitter.com/jbarro/status/575147532554223617

      • Phydeau says:

        Ouch, even the NY Daily News, not a bunch of liberals, calls Tehran Tom and his buddies “traitors”

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/10/nydn-blasts-iran-letter_n_6836392.html

      • Phydeau says:

        Why did all those long-term Republican senators go along with this freshman senator only months into his first term? Are they really that scared of the wingnut/tea party branch of the Republican party?

        Here’s what one more sensible Republican said:

        “It’s more appropriate for members of the Senate to give advice to the president, to Secretary Kerry and to the negotiators,” Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) said. “I don’t think that the ayatollah is going to be particularly convinced by a letter from members of the Senate, even one signed by a number of my distinguished and high ranking colleagues.”

        http://motherjones.com/mojo/2015/03/irans-foreign-minister-shuts-down-gop-letter-propaganda-ploy

        And from the Iranian foreign minister:

        It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history. This indicates that like Netanyahu, who considers peace as an existential threat, some are opposed to any agreement, regardless of its content.

        He makes a good point… Just like George Orwell pointed out in 1984, keeping the country in a constant state of fear and war makes the citizens easier to manipulate. Fox News and the Republican party have used this for years.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          No, that wasn’t what Orwell said. Like so many liberals, you missed the point.

          • Phydeau says:

            NFS, you’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            ‘Have we always been at war with Eastasia?’

            is the liberals’ favorite quote, but not realizing that it is to contrast with the previous statement of being at war with Oceania.

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

            NFS–thats exactly what Orwell said and meant. “Who” you are at war with is not the point….. THE POINT… as Orwell cautioned was simply to be at war >>>>in order to keep citizen overshight/unrest at bay.

            Just Look. Watch the Wag the Tail in operation this very day. Putin and the Ayotollahs and Isis==all finding new enemies every day.

            More kneejerk argumentation. Sad to see it.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            I’d ask you to read the book again to understand it, but your lack of reading comprehension skills makes it a waste fo time.

          • Phydeau says:

            Your focus on 1984 and your ignoring the larger point is duly noted. Your concession of defeat is gracefully accepted. 😉

          • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist lefty enough to recognize Obama's biggiest fault is he is too far right says:

            Thats an excellent and well stated point Phydeau. What 1984 is “about” is not at all what it “means.”

            Indeed it is book review vs literary appreciation.

            Kudos.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          Well yes, the larger point is valid. You could have just said ‘war is the health of the state.’

  8. NewFormatSux says:

    Charlie Hebdo has been named 2015 International Islamophobe of the year, despite many of its staff having been killed by Jihadists in January. The annual ‘award’ was given by Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC), a British group that claims to campaign against terrorism.

    Was Phydeau on the voting committee?

  9. Phydeau says:

    More on the clusterf*ck from Tehran Tom and his buddies:

    http://slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2015/03/sen_tom_cotton_s_letter_to_iran_is_plainly_stupid_the_arkansas_freshman.html

    The idiocies begin with the first sentence: “It has come to our attention while observing your nuclear negotiations with our government that you may not fully understand our constitutional system.”

    First, I’m curious: How has this come to their attention? Second, the letter writers reveal that they don’t understand our constitutional system either. They point out to the Iranians, in the tone of a teacher addressing third-graders, that treaties must be ratified by two-thirds of the Senate, agreements need majority approval by both houses of Congress, and executive agreements can be overturned by Obama’s successor “with the stroke of a pen.”

    Reading this, one can only wonder if these Republicans ever consult their staffs. As the Iranian leaders know, and as the Obama administration and the other P5+1 governments have made clear all along, the deal being negotiated is not a treaty, nor is it an agreement. Rather, it is a nonbinding international arrangement, to be signed (if it is signed) by the United States, the United Kingdom, France, China, Russia, Germany, and Iran.

    Wow, Tehran Tom is looking stupider by the day! 🙂 Wait wait I get it… they’re trying to disable our enemies by making them laugh so hard they can’t do anything else! 😀

  10. Phydeau says:

    “Private Correspondence with Foreign Governments,” also known as the Logan Act.

    Looks like Tehran Tom and his buddies could be fined or imprisoned for 3 years, or both. Personally, I’d call it treason.

    Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

    This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      I didn’t know there was a controversy with Iran about the meaning of the Constitution. It’s more obvious now since their reply letter was filled with liberal talking points about SuperPacs. Somehow, they forgot to be wrong about Citizens United.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Since there is no statute of limitations on treason, shouldn’t you also call for a treason prosecution of Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton?

      Hillary went to Iraq in 2007 declaring opposition to the surge. Nancy Pelosi met with Assad and declared that the road to Damascus is one of peace.

    • NewFormatSux says:

      “During his first presidential campaign in 2008, Mr. Obama used a secret back channel to Tehran to assure the mullahs that he was a friend of the Islamic Republic, and that they would be very happy with his policies. The secret channel was Ambassador William G. Miller, who served in Iran during the shah’s rule, as chief of staff for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and as ambassador to Ukraine. Ambassador Miller has confirmed to me his conversations with Iranian leaders during the 2008 campaign.”

      Now it is considered that you cannot indict the sitting president, but can it be done for actions taken while not President?

      • Phydeau says:

        Interesting point NFS, but Obama was not trying to undercut any American policy at the time, and it was done in secret, not blatantly in public. But perhaps a case could be made for it.

        And BTW, same thing for Saint Ronnie and his gang, what with them promising the Ayatollah weapons for holding off on releasing the hostages until after the election. Traitors all.

        • NewFormatSux says:

          The Bush Admin was trying to make its own deal with Iran on nukes. And many of the same people behind this letter were unhappy about that as well.

          As for Ronnie, everyone knows they released the hostages because they were worried what Ronnie would do. Just like they stopped developing their nukes after Bush invaded Iraq.

          • bobbo, AGW is Anthropormorphic Global Warming. Its why yeast stops growing in any confined space: they reproduce and consume until they die in their own shit. says:

            NewFormat Flounders and says:
            3/13/2015 at 11:17 am

            The Bush Admin was trying to make its own deal with Iran on nukes. And many of the same people behind this letter were unhappy about that as well. /// Yes…..BUT THE POINT IS: the Pukes and Dumbos against Bush wrote no letter to Iran. See the difference??????

            As for Ronnie, everyone knows they released the hostages because they were worried what Ronnie would do. Just like they stopped developing their nukes after Bush invaded Iraq. /// Afraid of Star Gazing Ronnie….. or had enough of the issue and time to clear the slate????

            I know===Pukes: loving the fear based analysis of ………… “everything.”

          • NewFormatSux says:

            NO, Obama sent an ambassador to deliver his message directly.

          • NewFormatSux says:

            > Afraid of Star Gazing Ronnie….. or had enough of the issue and time to clear the slate????

            That’s like claiming Don Rumsfeld’s firing had nothing to do with the election.

    • bobbo, AGW is Anthropormorphic Global Warming. Its why yeast stops growing in any confined space: they reproduce and consume until they die in their own shit. says:

      An open letter is not private and congress creeps are the gubment…given the plain language. Court cases might have established the exact opposite however.

      Idiots they do look like though….unchanging over time.


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