Comments on: Whatever Happened to the Apple III? http://www.dvorak.org/blog General interest observations and true web-log. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:43:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: A. Siegenthaler http://www.dvorak.org/blog/whatever-happened-to-the-apple-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-602863 A. Siegenthaler Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:22:07 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?page_id=8220#comment-602863 There are a few errors in this article. As an Apple III collector i'll try to correct some of the mistakes: Error #1: >SOS was actually closer to a DOS shell than an operating system. This depends on the software used. SOS was a complete well designed OS which controlled the whole hardware of the computer, file and memory management, interrupt handling and device I/O. But SOS itself provided no user interface. User interaction is done by the application program or a language interpreter which communicate through a consistent machine language interface with the SOS services and device drivers. For file management and utility tasks Apple provided the menu driven System utility program and the System configuration program. The Business Basic language interpreter provided a command line interface to SOS, like the Apple II Applesoft and DOS. The Apple III Pascal System was an early IDE to program in Pascal which also provided a user interface, known as the UCSD Pascal system. Error #2: >It (SOS) was written in Apple Pascal, the Apple version of UCSD Pascal, and executed within the Apple Pascal operating system environment. That turned around exactly! SOS was written in native 6502 assembly language and the UCSD p-machine ran on top of SOS ! UCSD Pascal was written in Pascal and ran on the virtual p-machine as mentioned. Error #3: >it was inherently slower than an operating system written in assembly code. This may be partly true for the Pascal programs but not for SOS as a operating system. In the time around 1980 there were no other Pascal compilers available for personal computers which produced native code. One of the first native compilers was Borlands Turbo Pascal which apeared in 1983 for the IBM PC. UCSD Pascal was intended to provide an advanced programming language to the microcomputer market and as a replacement of Basic for teaching computer programming. Thus the Idea of the p-code machine came up to make the UCSD Pascal system as portable as possible for easy porting to different computer architectures. Error #4: >The Apple III+ gave its users access to as much as 512K of RAM. and its Apple II emulation mode was expanded to include Apple IIe software The Apple /// architecture and SOS were designed from the beginning to support up to 512 K of RAM. But Apple never produced a memory board with more than 256 K, also not for the III+. Third party companies sold 512K memory boards to upgrade all Apple III models to 512K. Also the III+ could'n run IIe Software in the Emulation mode! Unfortunately, but this was intended at Apple. They intentionally built chips in the Apple III to prevent the use of all memory above 48K in the Apple II Mode. You only could run 64K Apple II and IIe Software with the optional Titan card from a third party. Error #5: >Some programs would dump the user off at the Apple Pascal operating system prompt. The Apple III’s manuals never mentioned what the user should do when that happened. But they do! You could install the whole Pascal system and the Pascal applications onto the ProFile harddrive and then create a universal Pascal boot disk. From the Pascal command line you can start each Pascal program without rebooting! Unfortunately this don't work with copy protected software, which depend on their original floppy! There are a few errors in this article. As an Apple III collector i’ll try to correct some of the mistakes:

Error #1:
>SOS was actually closer to a DOS shell than an operating system.

This depends on the software used. SOS was a complete well designed OS which controlled the whole hardware of the computer, file and memory management, interrupt handling and device I/O. But SOS itself provided no user interface. User interaction is done by the application program or a language interpreter which communicate through a consistent machine language interface with the SOS services and device drivers. For file management and utility tasks Apple provided the menu driven System utility program and the System configuration program. The Business Basic language interpreter provided a command line interface to SOS, like the Apple II Applesoft and DOS. The Apple III Pascal System was an early IDE to program in Pascal which also provided a user interface, known as the UCSD Pascal system.

Error #2:
>It (SOS) was written in Apple Pascal, the Apple version of UCSD Pascal, and executed within the Apple Pascal operating system environment.

That turned around exactly! SOS was written in native 6502 assembly language and the UCSD p-machine ran on top of SOS ! UCSD Pascal was written in Pascal and ran on the virtual p-machine as mentioned.

Error #3:
>it was inherently slower than an operating system written in assembly code.

This may be partly true for the Pascal programs but not for SOS as a operating system. In the time around 1980 there were no other Pascal compilers available for personal computers which produced native code. One of the first native compilers was Borlands Turbo Pascal which apeared in 1983 for the IBM PC. UCSD Pascal was intended to provide an advanced programming language to the microcomputer market and as a replacement of Basic for teaching computer programming. Thus the Idea of the p-code machine came up to make the UCSD Pascal system as portable as possible for easy porting to different computer architectures.

Error #4:

>The Apple III+ gave its users access to as much as 512K of RAM.
and its Apple II emulation mode was expanded to include Apple IIe software

The Apple /// architecture and SOS were designed from the beginning to support up to 512 K of RAM. But Apple never produced a memory board with more than 256 K, also not for the III+. Third party companies sold 512K memory boards to upgrade all Apple III models to 512K. Also the III+ could’n run IIe Software in the Emulation mode! Unfortunately, but this was intended at Apple. They intentionally built chips in the Apple III to prevent the use of all memory above 48K in the Apple II Mode. You only could run 64K Apple II and IIe Software with the optional Titan card from a third party.

Error #5:

>Some programs would dump the user off at the Apple Pascal operating system prompt. The Apple III’s manuals never mentioned what the user should do when that happened.

But they do! You could install the whole Pascal system and the Pascal applications onto the ProFile harddrive and then create a universal Pascal boot disk. From the Pascal command line you can start each Pascal program without rebooting! Unfortunately this don’t work with copy protected software, which depend on their original floppy!

]]> By: AndyG http://www.dvorak.org/blog/whatever-happened-to-the-apple-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-383359 AndyG Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:44:52 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?page_id=8220#comment-383359 I did a lot of work on an Apple /// in Advanced VisiCalc (Individual Column Resizing!) and in UCSD Pascal. It was really a better machine than it usually got credit for. It wasn't particularly attractive looking with the Profile harddrive and greenscreen monitor on top, I think that held it back more than people realize. I sold a few of them for accounting - one in particular to a guy running a co-op grain elevator. It just hummed along doing it's gig, nothing sexy. I did a lot of work on an Apple /// in Advanced VisiCalc (Individual Column Resizing!) and in UCSD Pascal. It was really a better machine than it usually got credit for.

It wasn’t particularly attractive looking with the Profile harddrive and greenscreen monitor on top, I think that held it back more than people realize.

I sold a few of them for accounting – one in particular to a guy running a co-op grain elevator. It just hummed along doing it’s gig, nothing sexy.

]]> By: Peter Rodwell http://www.dvorak.org/blog/whatever-happened-to-the-apple-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-383086 Peter Rodwell Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:22:10 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?page_id=8220#comment-383086 I posted the following in the main blog before realizing it shoud go here: I well remember the Press launch of the Apple III in London (UK). We all attended in anticipation of Great Things. Steve Jobs gave the presentation and demo, and then asked for questions. There was a long silence. The only question that occurred to any of us (but nobody dared ask) was, “Why did you bother?” Eventually Regis McKenna piped up from the back of the room with a couple of obviously pre-planned questions that received remarkably uninteresting replies. We all left, predicting that Apple would cease to exist within the year. I posted the following in the main blog before realizing it shoud go here:

I well remember the Press launch of the Apple III in London (UK). We all attended in anticipation of Great Things. Steve Jobs gave the presentation and demo, and then asked for questions.

There was a long silence.

The only question that occurred to any of us (but nobody dared ask) was, “Why did you bother?”

Eventually Regis McKenna piped up from the back of the room with a couple of obviously pre-planned questions that received remarkably uninteresting replies.

We all left, predicting that Apple would cease to exist within the year.

]]> By: Uncle Dave http://www.dvorak.org/blog/whatever-happened-to-the-apple-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-382765 Uncle Dave Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:26:21 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?page_id=8220#comment-382765 In 81-82, I was writing programs in UCSD Pascal on an Apple III. Sweet speed improvement over the Apple ][ from the year before. Although initially, I was still stuck with four floppy drives (1=OS, 2=compiler, 3=source code, 4=complied code), I experienced computing heaven when I got one of those 5 meg hard disks. In 81-82, I was writing programs in UCSD Pascal on an Apple III. Sweet speed improvement over the Apple ][ from the year before. Although initially, I was still stuck with four floppy drives (1=OS, 2=compiler, 3=source code, 4=complied code), I experienced computing heaven when I got one of those 5 meg hard disks.

]]> By: Derek http://www.dvorak.org/blog/whatever-happened-to-the-apple-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-382736 Derek Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:25:34 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?page_id=8220#comment-382736 I think this is a fantastic feature. It gives a timeline perspective of the CT industry which we can all appreciate. I get a kick out of reading these reposts because as a teenager and a geek, I thought I was the only person in my immediate circle of friends (other geeks) that enjoyed the cryptic writings of those in the know about silicon valley. My friends and I originally became aware of computers and the power they had to entertain, we weren't the high minded types who realized that computers could revolutionize the business or scientific world, we just assumed that computers and the like (gaming devices circa 1977) were the sole goal of a few companies to provide another form of entertainment. Eventually, the overall logic of the computer dawned on us thick brained but young trogs, and we ( as adolescents) began experimenting with programming language to make out own simplistic games. I remember the first time I actually saw an Apple computer. What a wonderful buzz of excitement that was, the "computer man" came to our school one day in the fall of 1980 and installed two green screened apple computers in the short hallway in front of our middle school classroom. from then, until we graduated, myself and a dozen other classmates would fight over who was going to "computer" next... ah the memories. Derek ak.a Homer the great I think this is a fantastic feature. It gives a timeline perspective of the CT industry which we can all appreciate. I get a kick out of reading these reposts because as a teenager and a geek, I thought I was the only person in my immediate circle of friends (other geeks) that enjoyed the cryptic writings of those in the know about silicon valley. My friends and I originally became aware of computers and the power they had to entertain, we weren’t the high minded types who realized that computers could revolutionize the business or scientific world, we just assumed that computers and the like (gaming devices circa 1977) were the sole goal of a few companies to provide another form of entertainment. Eventually, the overall logic of the computer dawned on us thick brained but young trogs, and we ( as adolescents) began experimenting with programming language to make out own simplistic games. I remember the first time I actually saw an Apple computer. What a wonderful buzz of excitement that was, the “computer man” came to our school one day in the fall of 1980 and installed two green screened apple computers in the short hallway in front of our middle school classroom. from then, until we graduated, myself and a dozen other classmates would fight over who was going to “computer” next…

ah the memories.

Derek ak.a Homer the great

]]> By: Robert http://www.dvorak.org/blog/whatever-happened-to-the-apple-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-382701 Robert Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:42:11 +0000 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?page_id=8220#comment-382701 great idea for a series. Thanks and keep 'em coming. Robert great idea for a series. Thanks and keep ‘em coming.

Robert

]]>