This is almost unbelievable.

found by Martin Higgins

  1. bobbo says:

    55–You cut a fine line between advocacy and being irrelevant.

    59–Thats not speech, or “words” the theme of this thread.

  2. Mr. Fusion says:

    #61, RBG,

    To quote another American:
    @#%*%, you %$#@*!!!! – 7 year old Timmy

    Well said. In fact, I’m quite sure I know that kid. Not quite in the same league as Voltaire or Franklin, but damn, some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth.

  3. bilzebub says:

    61, “I wonder if ordinary people from the ’40s, ’50’s & ’60’s knew they were neocons for disagreeing with Zappa’s premise?”
    Ummm, I imagine “ordinary people” believe(d) a lot of different things, but I’m not sure what your point is — ordinary versus what? Extra-ordinary?! Egghead? A lot of what ordinary people think is and has been manufactured for them by elites (“1940s. 50s?”check out HL Mencken), or otherwise by “received wisdom” (misquoting Einstein: common sense is the sum total of prejudices acquired to the age of eighteen). But anyway, “ordinary people”, wherever they get their political phlosophy from, have a philosophy, even if it’s inarticulate or unexamined. The only way to understand it though, is to link it to wider, historical intellectual trends. I’m an ordinary person and wouldn’t think that I understood , say, contemporary art, without bothering to look into some art history.

  4. RBG says:

    My point is that you can ascribe the anti-Zappa feelings to some sinister “neo-con” movement if you like but clearly these attitudes have been a discrete part of American society for a very long time. Where Americans got this from is irrelevant to my point as is the exact statistic on such things.


  5. Mark D says:

    Whatever you think of Novak, both he and Braden ended up with pretty much the same (logical) viewpoint.

    In the years since, Lofton (no longer with the Times) has been relegated to the fringe position where he hates both the neo-conservatives and the liberals. His viewpoints include the notion that women and non-christians should not hold public office. He is, for all intents, irrelevant.

    And of course, Frank Zappa (whose views sounded very libertarian to me…which is pretty much where I fall in all this and that makes me happy) will always be known for his groundbreaking music and his extraordinary mind–so I’d say all is well.


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