The Raw Story – Thursday November 29, 2007:
It was revealed last week that firefighters are being trained to not only keep an eye out for illegal materials in the course of their duties, but even to report back any expression of discontent with the government.
A year ago, Homeland Security gave security clearances to nine New York City fire chiefs and began sharing intelligence with them. Even before that, fire department personnel were being taught “to identify material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities” and were also “told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States.”
Unlike law enforcement officials, firemen can go onto private property without a warrant, not only while fighting fires but also for inspections. “It’s the evolution of the fire service,” said a Phoenix, AZ fire chief of his information-sharing arrangement with law enforcement.
This kind of crap has got to stop. What are we? East Germany during the Cold War? Frak’n fascists!
So let’s see if I’ve got the thinking right on this. You guys think that firefighters shouldn’t be trained to report things like pipe bombs, plastic explosives, walls covered with building plans of target buildings?
@GigG
Reductio ad absurdum is not a great way to argue your point. Pipe bombs and plastic explosives have nothing to do with honest political dissent.
#2
What part of “were also “told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States.”” talks about pipe bombs and plastique? By the wording of this, I could be reported as a potential terrorist because of my “Fuck Bush” refrigerator magnet.
Let me guess, you’re one of those “If you’re not with us, you’re against us”, “If you’re doing nothing wrong, you’ve got nothing to hide” types, aren’t you?
#2
What part of “were also “told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States.”” talks about pipe bombs and plastique? By the wording of this, I could be reported as a potential terrorist because of my “Fuck Bush” refrigerator magnet.
sounds like america moves one step closer to farenheit 451
Actually Improbus, Reductio ad absurdum is exatly what TFA article did to the origianl AP story. They took a program to do what I described and turned it into firefighters looking for political dissent.
To quote the AP article…
“But there are fears that they could lose the faith of a skeptical public by becoming the eyes of the government, looking for suspicious items such as building blueprints or bomb-making manuals or materials”
It can be found here http://tinyurl.com/32jjoz and TFA article even links to it.
What’s funny is I knew that was the case even before I read TFA and followed the link back to the orginal AP story.
@GigG
I automatically assume the government is lying no matter what. They have shown time and again that they can not be trusted. I have assume everything they do has some sort of underhanded component.
They took a program to do what I described and turned it into firefighters looking for political dissent.
I disagree. How can you interpret “look for persons expressing hate or discontent” any other way than trying to determine whether someone’s private thoughts should be reported to the “authorities”?
“A normal person that doesn’t have this training wouldn’t be looking for it.”
They need training to notice “pipe bombs, plastic explosives, walls covered with building plans of target buildings” as you noted? Really? Are they that stupid?
Please explain the subtle clues of terrorism that these firemen need training to observe.
>>Actually Improbus, Reductio ad absurdum
>>is exatly what TFA article did to the
>>origianl AP story.
Not exactly. The AP article said
“They’re really doing technical inspections, and if perchance they find something like, you know, a bunch of RPG (rocket-propelled grenade) rounds in somebody’s basement, I think it’s a no-brainer,” said Jack Tomarchio, a senior official in Homeland Security’s intelligence division.”
and then followed up with
>>When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States”
So what’s described as a search for WMDs, C4 explosives, and RPGs ends up being a house-by-house reporting of “fuck Bush” refrigerator magnets, Bill Maher on the TV, and Democratic campaign literature.
You can’t seriously think that a neofascist wannabe dictator like Little King Georgie could be trusted with this sort of power, do you??
No, we just want government agents to follow the Constitution, that’s all.
There is a difference between collecting intelligence and reporting a crime … well, there used to be in a place called USA. Now the American Union with it’s Amero need such flexibility for law enforcement to force the enforcement.
Fat load of good it did trying to force democracy on all those other countries over the years when we can’t even save it at home…
#6 Dead on.
The parallels are frightening.
If firefighters came to my house for an unannounced “inspection,” yo0u’d bbetter believe they’d find me uncooperative and expressing “discontent with the United States.”
I think you are mistaken, Natefrog. ‘Democracy’ in that context doesn’t mean a system of institutional government in which the people are seen as the root of state power, but rather, ‘democracy’ means “doing whatever the US tell you to do, or die.” Is it any surprise that this attitude is migrating from our foreign to domestic policy?
Imagine how I feel. Our alarm went off and we had two deputies with guns drawn do a search of our house while I am sitting here.
It happened this morning…
I can’t remember if I hid all my pr0n or not. I know at least 2-9mm guns were out, not to mention my “I Love Stalin” poster and our Hugo Chavez for US President stack of bumper stickers.
steve-o
Steve-o, are you being satirical, or did this actually happen to you?
#18 Li – All true. The door popped open after the little lady left this morning. Most of the deputies know us but that don’t mean I want them walking through the house while I’m not there.
steve-o
Am I still the Paranoid Irrational one ?
Seems like I am seeing a lot more “Police State” Banners on this and other pages.
Yet, 6 months ago….this type of talk was labeled crazy and paranoid. Conspiracy? Nah, this has all been PLANNED.
#20 It’s a good sign that people are waking up. To borrow a phrase from someone I thought loony a couple of years ago, the ‘fascist shift’ is too pronounced to ignore any any more. It seems that America’s tradition of free thought cannot be murdered by a mere six years of fear-mongering, lies and propaganda. Rejoice for this trend, for it is only with consensus that we the people can turn the ship of state around. Perhaps we can even miss the reef that is so close to the fore. I am hopeful.
I guess if George allows elections next Fall it will be Hillary throwing us all in the new Halliburton re-education camps for political crimes instead of him. Meet the new boss … same as the old boss.
#22 Do you think the curriculum would be all that different?
The US is losing it totally. And does anyone for a minute think that anything’s going to get rolled back in the way of civil liberties after the next election? There’s going to be a lot of complaining about this I’m sure.
I’d ask all the candidates this question – “Which laws or decisions created by this administration will be repealed by the new administration?”
Answer – “Umm…er…we’ll get back to you.”
The list, I’m sure, will fit on the back of a matchbox.
#25 L – With room to spare no doubt…
No need to go searching for me–I’ll say it up front. I’m discontented with this country. In fact, my feelings are pretty damn close to hatred. And if some small private militias started another revolutionary war to take back our country, I’d be on the side of the private militias.
#27 John – Good thing no one in the government reads these blogs.
There must be some way to change the government legally and within the framework of the constitution.
(At least that’s my official story.)
Try thinking before responding those of you who blame it all on neocons, cons, Bush, Cheney, religious right and (insert favorite here). I’d like to hear a serious idea for a change and not some rant.
steve-o
#17, Li;
Methinks your sarcasm detector is broken…
Homeland Security wants us to do WHAT?
I seem to have missed that memo…
A bit late here but then, No one is awake in here anyway so, my two sents ( perchance a pun ?) :
One wonders why the herd instinct is only now beginng to stinct ? Do all sheep still dream of android lovers in the Whitehouse..oops..better slow myself down here..I tend to rampantly rant.. Everyone who’s been sh!tt!ng themselves over the big bad booger man at the door is SO deserving of what they beget. Now, where’s that militia I read about in here ?