Guy Fawkes says:

I don’t see where he failed either. That stinkin reporter was just reading questions and had no idea what the mayor was talking about, he was clueless. The healthcare the mayor talks about IS part of the $70 an hour in total compensation for the workers.
The biggest problem is that the car companies ever agreed to these conditions in the first place. If they had balled up to the unions years ago they wouldn’t be in this mess. The only real good the UAW has done for its employees in the past few years is making sure the auto industries didn’t leave the country which I’m sure would have happened already if not for that. They would be doing the same thing others are doing, making the parts cheaper elsewhere and shipping them here to be assembled.

Mr. Fusion says:

#31, McCullough,

Can anyone else confirm these numbers? I am neither gullibe, naive or stupid, but these are the figures being reported.

That is because they are being used as final numbers by those with an agenda. Remember, there are lies, damed lies, and people who incorrectly use statistics to bolster a failed argument. The numbers might not lie, but the people do.

… the ,a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html?_r=2&hp>true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.

… snip …

Imagine, also, that the U.A.W. agrees to reduce pay and benefits for current workers to $45 an hour — the same as at Honda and Toyota.
Do you know how much that would reduce the cost of producing a Big Three vehicle? Only about $800.
That’s because labor costs, for all the attention they have been receiving, make up only about 10 percent of the cost of making a vehicle. An extra $800 per vehicle would certainly help Detroit, but the Big Three already often sell their cars for about $2,500 less than equivalent cars from Japanese companies, analysts at the International Motor Vehicle Program say.

and, Toyota is trying to reduce the wages of its workforce. This quote though deals with an interesting aspect of that.

Toyota’s strategy resembles what Hyundai Motor Co. uses at its plant in Montgomery, Ala. Assembly workers there make $14 an hour, about half the wages, bonuses and benefits of Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Detroit’s automakers. But Hyundai’s wages still are considerably higher than for comparable Alabama jobs, which pay $10.79 an hour.

At $14 /hr, where has the the middle class gone? At less that $11 /hr, how many qualify for food stamps?

The Associated Press reported that, for example, the average United Auto Workers member makes $29.78 per hour at GM, while Toyota pays its workers (most of whom are non-union) about $30 per hour. However, when total benefits (including pensions and health care for workers, retirees and their spouses) is factored in, GM’s total hourly labor costs is about $69, while Toyota’s is about $48.

The Japanese automaker has fewer retirees in the U.S., and its health care benefits and pensions are less generous than those negotiated between Detroit and the UAW. Another key point is that health costs and pensions for auto workers in Japan – worth billions – are subsidized by the Japanese government. Not so in the U.S.

Iknow says:

His comments of Wall street not taking their hits seems a little vague. What about all the banks that have collapsed and all their employees let go? There were thousands. I guess he doesn’t figure that eh?
The part about $70/hr includes benefits. I think the problem is a combination of strong unions and poor management in the North American auto industry. In other words a perfect storm…

stana2z says:

What happened to “Fair and Balanced”?

AlanB says:

I’m so tired of this. No one should be arguing the auto workers make too much money. The argument should be that not everyone else is making enough! We need to bring them up.

The earnings of the middle class have gone up and down over the last four or five decades but the trend has been down.

It’s almost as if people making less then the autoworkers are jealous, and instead of figuring out a way to improve their own lot in life they find it easier to bring down others.

I don’t know the answer but it’s a sad state of affairs. I’m saddened by it and the future doesn’t look too bright.

SimonSezz says:

The union autoworkers do not make $70 an hour or whatever ludicrous figure the wall street fatcats make up every week. Look at your average union autoworker and you’ll see they are almost in the sub-middle-class sector. Non-union autoworkers are worse off, most of them live in mobile homes and barely have any savings. The non-union cars made in the USA by Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, and the american companies are at factories that are in right-to-work states and those workers are getting paid $15 an hour. A union worker usually makes $25 an hour but also has health benefits and a pension (which they will be lucky to get in the future).

This turmoil is the result of greed. Greedy politicians, corporations, brokers, CEO’s, traders, insurance companies, etc. We have turned into a greedy society and instead of being comfortable with what we have, we want more and more and we want the fancy cars, fancy clothes, and things we don’t need. Now we have to wait while the whole system crumbles and we [hopefully] learn from our mistakes and become more civilized and work to help one-another instead of just ourselves.

Stewrt says:

I agree with others… this guy must be up for re election.
Saying what will get him voted in again.

Paddy-O says:

# 38 Mr. Fusion said, “And if your competition is subsidized by their own government to the tune of billions each year, then maybe we should stop being so black and white about letting our industry stand on its own.”

That’s when you impose import tariffs that bring in revenues, not bailouts that spend revenue. But, you may be referring to import tariffs…

Paddy-O says:

# 47 Mr. Fusion said, “Again I see you are speaking without thinking. There is currently this little thing called the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade or GATT and the World Trade Organization or WTO. ”

I see that once again you have NO understanding of the constitution. A President can unilaterally nullify any treaty.

Back to 6th grade for you. Oops, I mean when you reach the 6th grade you’ll learn about this…

Mr. Fusion says:

#48, Cow-Patty,

I see that once again you have NO understanding of the constitution. A President can unilaterally nullify any treaty.

Say what? Did your mother drop you on your head and all the coherent thought fall out? Geeze, that is either stooopid or you have been brainwashed by Bushes claims.

Try Article 6, Clause 2.

Mr. Fusion says:

#50, Robert.

The guy couldn’t give a straight answer. This is call an intellectually dishonest debate:

Oh, really? Here, I wrote down the questions for you.

Question 1

“What is your reaction to the plan.”

In short, the mayor answered by saying the workers were always being asked to suffer while those at the top continued to be given bonuses.

Question 2,

Wrong numbers quoted by the interviewer, by using bad numbers from the New York Post, who also owns FIXED NEWS.

“Wouldn’t you agree auto workers need to swallow some pay cuts, substantial ones.”

Although he repeated much of what he had already said. The Mayor still answered the question with a “no”.

Question 3

“Now that you brought it up, $47 billion in future costs to UAW workers, health care for life. You’re wrong, I don’t get health care for life here, and isn’t that part of the problem, they need to give up that which no other worker gets, health care for life?

To which he answered that ‘no, auto workers, in fact all Americans deserve good health care.’

While he answered the questions, it was the answers that you don’t like.

Who said anything about health insurance. Besides my health insurance is fine and I buy it myself….gasp. I don’t make as much as auto workers either.

Health Care is a benefit and is part of the pay package. And if you have a good, oops, “fine”, health insurance package YOU pay for I say bullshit.

… with irrelevant facts: Have the bonuses been cut on Wall Street? Let it go. It has nothing to do with what needs to be done so U.S. car dealers will make a car that I think is worth buying.

Wrong. It is called confidence. If people don’t have confidence in their government or the banks, they won’t spend it. Giving huge bonuses to Wall Street when they were begging for TARP funds does not give anyone confidence. Asking that guy about to buy a new car to take a pay cut doesn’t give any confidence either.

“Teachers are underpaid!” and “Do you want your grandmother eating dog food?”

And are those really irrelevant questions? I know most Leibertarians think teachers are overpaid and don’t care if their grandmothers eat dog food. But I think most Leibertarians are retarded, selfish, assholes.

These emotional, reactive and illogical arguments do nothing to solve the problem. They only get both sides pissed off.

But quoting false numbers as fact is fine? Trying to steer the answers to what the interviewer wants to hear is OK?

Paddy-O says:

# 54 Robart said, “Keep going Paddy-O. He is resorting to name calling.”

He ends up having to do that more often as not. Still, he gets it right about 20% of the time. Pretty damn good for an 11 year old…

Mr. Fusion says:

#54, Robby,

Keep going Paddy-O.

So another one that thinks the President may just abrogate a treaty and by extension, any law. Holy good phuk!!! Where do these retards come from?

The0ne says:

The hourly wage is the sum of all the costs/benefits and it IS a lot. It’s too damn much for a basic machine operator. Even if it’s $50/hr total its still too much. What’s so hard to understand about that. Company pays them that much and still wants to compete with the same pricing? Something has to give and it certainly isn’t going to be the UAW, nor the consumer.

Don’t pity GM and others because they are dying. They are dying because of valid logical reasons. If you like having a machine operator make much more than you, why don’t you lower your pay within our company to match that and see how that’s “fair.”