Did You Know Enforced Swine Flu Shot This Fall Is Really Multiple Shots?

Published on July 16th, 2009

Posted by Uncle Dave in Health Care, medical

More chances to refuse and be sent to the swine flu concentration camps (Swine Flu Gitmo?).

School children who have never had a flu shot may need to get vaccinated four times in the fall – twice for seasonal flu, twice for pandemic swine flu – officials at the CDC told health professionals on Wednesday.

Most everyone else should expect three shots.
[...]
“This vaccine campaign will unfold quite differently than seasonal flu,” said Wortley, in a conference call with health care professionals nationwide on Wednesday. “This is a huge endeavor we’re gearing up for.”
[...]
Preservative-free shots will be available for children and pregnant women, about 20 percent of the lots manufactured, Wortley said. They will either come in single-dose injections or as Flu Mist, the live virus that is squirted into the nose.

Adults will most likely get their shots from multi-dose vials which contain Thimerisol, including very low levels of mercury.
[...]
There are a number of newer vaccine technologies that are now under development, including cell-based vaccines and vaccines grown in fall armyworm cells. Those won’t be among the tier 1 vaccines used in the United States, Wortley said.
[...]
Wortley said the CDC is setting up a process for tracking adverse reactions to the shots, including the rare but potentially fatal Guillain-Barré syndrome, an autoimmune disorder that can be temporarily paralyzing.

58 users responded in " Did You Know Enforced Swine Flu Shot This Fall Is Really Multiple Shots? "

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# 1 Zybch said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:03 am

Any chance you guys could please use a different font (like arial) when quoting from another site in italics?
The italics make it quite difficult to read when combined with the current fonts’ serifs.

# 2 Lou Minatti said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:06 am

“Thimerisol”

Aww geez, not this again. I was hoping that the anti-vaccination paranoia had died down.

# 3 phiend said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:11 am

not my kids check out this post

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/07/11/suppressed-60-minutes-report-from-1977-1978-on-swine-flu-fiasco/

not me not my kids, This is still a free country… right?

# 4 Bob Dole said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:11 am

Bob Dole agrees with comments 1, and 2, too.

# 5 pben said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:24 am

I didn’t get a shot when Gerald Ford was pushing it and I will not do it for Obama. More people died of the shot under Ford than caught swine flu!

# 6 Fat_Anarchy said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:27 am

I too am finding this anti-vac paranoia to be getting quite tired by now. Most of it is based on a very poor understanding of the science behind vaccination, and just people with the standard anti-government bent.

# 7 Mr Diesel said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:33 am

I won’t be getting damn flu shot this year or any other year.

Obomba and his current ilk can kiss my ass.

# 8 Sea Lawyer said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:41 am

Doesn’t “seasonal” flu originate in Asia and travel around the world? Why isn’t that considered a pandemic?

# 9 amodedoma said, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:31 am

Cool, the best scene from the amazing colossal man. A few seconds later the giant grabs the syringe and throws it like a dart at the guy in uniform, and nails him to the ground. Could be a prophetic use of symbols.

# 10 Viruses are dead anyway said, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:48 am

Oh they do this crap to the public all the time to get them scared into submission. I highly doubt there will be any act of Congress to force every person to get shot at.

And to those who say some suffer from “anti-vaccination paranoia”, their pompous attitude reflects their miserable failure in understanding the very nature of science. Scientifically proven facts in science are later proven completely false all the time, especially in medical science as applied to human moving targets of which the immune variables are endless and nearly totally impossible to control what variables affect their immune systems.

Speaking of science, try this scientific fact on for size, tell us at what # of vaccinations do you stop and say “stop THAT’S ENOUGH”? There are an INFINITE number of viruses that the immune system creates antibodies against, I-N-F-I-N-I-T-E. Once you understand this scientific fact, that has not been proven wrong for 100 years, it’s rather hard to explain, do we stop at 4 shots every fall? Or is 10 enough to cover all the other flus, and against HIV “the most deadly of them all, boo”? Did I scare you? Wait, where’s that HIV vaccine again? 25 years and no vaccine? Quadrillion of dollars wasted on research and no vaccine?

Will we stop injecting live dead virus in kids arms at about 27 shots every fall? Maybe 100? What happens when they discover 1000 strains of flu? They keep “discovering new strains”, yet viruses are dead as door nails. For that matter you would be better off getting vaccinated with a door nail that someone sat on who had your silly flu scam virus as your body already vaccinates itself internally.

Here’s another one, answer this, how healthy is it to add mercury to your blood even in small quantities? What about the ground up bovine serum? And chemicals?

And how Constitutional is it for the State to force anything up your veins without your permission, especially the very thing you want to avoid entering your body, as some way of protecting yourself from it? I consider that close to insane, and label it “holocaust medicine”.

Since all viruses are dead non-living things and they “mutate” into weaker dead non-living things how does that protect you from rampaging dead things? This data is there in their medical literature.

Flu is created, not caught.

There are factors such as oil slicks in the colon, lack of fiber, stress, and bad bacterias on a sugar and oil feeding frenzy something like when you find ants all over leftovers on your kitchen counter or picnic table that create the flu.

Compare, the immunization theory is like trying to protect your child from child molestors, by inviting child molesters in your home for the very purpose that your child would be exposed to the child molesting, so that he or she would become immune to child molesting by developing an immunity to child molesting.

Did you come up with a number yet of how many shot’s per year is the limit where you would finally say stop?

# 11 Named said, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:52 am

7, Sea lawyer

Can you imagine the headlines for “seasonal” flu?

“The Seasonal Flu is BACK! Again.”

And that’s about it. No drama, terrah, fear, xenophobia, etc. Just the regular damn flu that kills loads of people every year…

# 12 Named said, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:57 am

FWIW, here’s the official standpoint from the Canadian government regarding vaccines and thimerosal.

# 13 leftbankhook said, on July 16th, 2009 at 6:03 am

If you want the vaccine, feel free. And you’ll be protected from people (like me) who didn’t get it…well unless the shot doesn’t work for the strain of flu going around, or unless it gives you a mild case of the flu itself, or unless something unforeseen happens…

# 14 Nom de Guerre said, on July 16th, 2009 at 6:11 am

Thimerosal, mercury, live vaccine… all these ‘reasons’ not to take vaccines are discussed from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

I love a good conspiracy, but sometimes these trollish attempts fail so hard.

Mark Crislip’s quackcast.

# 15 Rabble Rouser said, on July 16th, 2009 at 6:16 am

I’ll take any shot, as long as it’s at least 100 proof ethanol!
If the government will give me a shot of 100 proof ethanol, I’ll take TWO!

# 16 tcc3 said, on July 16th, 2009 at 7:23 am

I hear they’re going to outlaw tinfoil hats this fall too!

# 17 Sea Lawyer said, on July 16th, 2009 at 8:01 am

#10, Named.

Seriously, you’d think that we didn’t already have at least one new strain of flu that makes its way around the globe every year. This swine flu thing is out of control.

# 18 Mr. Fusion said, on July 16th, 2009 at 8:19 am

#13, Nom

My usual practice is to dismiss all Youtube, blogs, and opinion pieces. For some reason though I listened to that podcast. Thank you

To everyone else, it is a few minutes long, by an infectious control Physician. He puts into perspective all the concerns made by the anti-vaccine crowd. Skip the first three minutes of self promotion to get to the real good stuff.

People that think only of themselves will skip it.For some reason they are too good, too selfish to think that maybe that some baby is too sick to be given a vaccination but will die because they brought the infection close enough.

And no, tin foil hats should not be banned. They are too good an indicator of the wackos and Liebertarians.

# 19 bobbo, balancing public health against ignornace and freedom said, on July 16th, 2009 at 8:21 am

#11 + #13==thanks for the links. The podcast will have to wait, but its been awhile since I “decided finally” about flu shots. Good to review every now and then.

Who knows the answer: Its been said (eg #12) that those that want protection can take the shot and those who don’t want the risk of reaction can risk the disease. Is that accurate? If so, then the statement seems unassailable. If 30% of the population don’t want to use science on their behalf, why should society force them into compliance? I thought the issue was that leaving a large group of individuals open to infection actually INCREASES the risk to those otherwise taking the vaccines–ie, a real non theoretical opportunity for the virus to mutate. If that is true, then science/society does have a rational case to REQUIRE vaccinations.

Any thoughts?

# 20 The Watcher said, on July 16th, 2009 at 8:45 am

I had the thimerisol debate with a health professional a couple years ago. Took a while to convince her that the whole thing was junk science. The kid will get more lead from licking the vinyl weatherstripping in an old house….

(I don’t know if somebody changed the law/rules, but there used to be enough lead in that stuff that the guys mixing it before extrusion had to wear filters.)

Meantime, bHo’s empire will do ANYTHING to force us into silly stuff….

Some bHo kids were talking to a meeting of scientists a while back, and when told that “what you’ve asked us to do violates the laws of Physics.” To which these administration weenies responded: “A law? So what…. We’ll just have Congress change it….”

A friend of mine got Guillain-Barré from that Swine Flu mess way back when. It didn’t kill her, but it was a tough year. She was one of the lucky ones….

Nobody really ever established the relationship, though, but….

I won’t be lining up with the rest of the sheeple to be killed….

# 21 dusanmal said, on July 16th, 2009 at 8:52 am

@#18 Problem you fail to see is that science/medicine is fluid, not a black&white issue. Ex. doctors in early 20th century may have seen that microbes are destroyed by irradiation and used your reasoning to irradiate whole population before realizing that they are damning the whole population to a death from cancer…
Other way around the same way of thinking you propose: people who would be dead via natural selection may linger around due to vaccinations and weaken the whole human race by allowing their weak genetic form to propagate. Hence, ban all vaccinations for the betterment of the human race… Equally stupid…

The very human freedom should mean that we should pick (and suffer from) our own choices as we please. This is not 1984 (or North Korea) where society decides for us.

# 22 amodedoma said, on July 16th, 2009 at 8:53 am

Bobbo,

As always you cut right to the chase. Unfortunately, people tend to become irrational over things they do not understand or cannot explain, especially if it deals with health issues. In fact all americans face mandatory vaccinations as children, only until recently has it become an issue. I feel a society that prides itself in it’s civil liberties should use it’s resources to convince the public that this vaccination is something we need to do and why, and not just try to herd the cattle so to speak. This doesn’t seem to be the case yet. Perhaps they’ll come around. I sure hope the nay-sayers and pooh-poohers are right this time.

# 23 Dave W said, on July 16th, 2009 at 9:23 am

#15, Right on!

I of course will be taking the vaccine. To those who refuse, I say great! The world desperately needs to reduce the surplus population. If the reduction is mostly loons worried about Thimerisol, vaccines in general, God, etc. so much the better for the rest of us!

# 24 bobbo, thankful for a half response said, on July 16th, 2009 at 9:36 am

#20–dismal==accepting your argument for the exercise, I would have to counter that “some things” in science are fluid, and other things aren’t. So–I asked the question unanswered as yet==does leaving a large percentage of the population unvaccinated INCREASE the risk of further virus mutation placing all (get it?==ALL) members of society at greater risk of infection/illness/death?

A LIEBERTARIAN self centered asshole appeal to some dipshit notion of “freedom” does not fit. The increase in life span in humans from 30 years to 80 years has come by way of public health==no freedom to shit in the public water supply, no freedom to leave yourself unvaccinated ((see question above)).

NO Freedom to choose not to risk mercury poisoning even if such is a real fact. Not when the larger public health fact is 300 may die from preservatives but 30 Million can die from the flu. Simple Math even simple people should be able to understand.

The question of vaccines is a good one. Are you a man of science, or just a stupidstitious fool?

# 25 bobbo, thankful for all kind words said, on July 16th, 2009 at 9:44 am

#21–amodedoma==thank you for the kind words and wise support. How is it that you and I are in agreement/disagreement about 50/50? That sets up quite a tension. Most agreement slippage is around 80/20.

Each of us could say of the other: “Oh, he is certainly “x” but he is also “y.” I’ll have to pay more attention to see what those variables are. With no memory of it, I suspect religion plays a role==but it will be fun to monitor and identify.

Sante!

# 26 Sea Lawyer said, on July 16th, 2009 at 9:46 am

“no freedom to shit in the public water supply, no freedom to leave yourself unvaccinated”

Telling people they can’t take a shit in somebody else’s drinking water is hardly the same thing as forcing people to inject foreign substances into their bodies against their will.

# 27 Someone said, on July 16th, 2009 at 9:51 am

So I have one question….What the fuck ever happened to Bird Flu?

Answer…..nothing.

Idiots.

# 28 RTaylor said, on July 16th, 2009 at 9:54 am

There are plenty of legal precedents for mandatory immunizations. There will be a small percentage of complications. This damn virus is mutating constantly. It’s the public good, not your individual sorry ass at stake. During marshal law you can be put up against a wall and executed without due process. This is an example why nothing can be accomplished in the country, because there is a God Damn collection of nut jobs for every possible conspiracy theory. I don’t care if you don’t take the damn shot, just be willing to stay home and die without contaminating someone else. Bunch of crazy sons of bitches.

# 29 bobbo, thinking better of Sea Lawyer said, on July 16th, 2009 at 9:58 am

#25–SL==whats the matter? Sick? Feeling low?

YOU KNOW, I KNOW YOU KNOW, WE BOTH KNOW EACH OTHER KNOWS that any two ideas have similarities and differences. A person who considers/decides/posts acknowledging only one or the other characteristic is, is, is – - – - -well, an idiot. Or a shill.

You are more than an idiot shill so hopefully this temporary stupidity will pass and you can post rationally again.

I look forward to that.

# 30 bobbo, not an epidemiologist said, on July 16th, 2009 at 10:03 am

#26–someone==what happened to bird flu? /// Gee, I think it went into summer time retreat presumably to mutate and return this fall==just like the Great Flu of 1916.

Way to use your boundless ignorance as a sword. Can’t you even read/remember items on this tiny little blog to inform yourself? Google? No?

Just stupid forever huh?

# 31 John Paradox said, on July 16th, 2009 at 10:18 am

Another informational site for fighting the anti-vax believers.

(Thanks to Todd W. et al for creating the site)

J/P=?

# 32 Sea Lawyer said, on July 16th, 2009 at 10:34 am

#28, okay, parallel scenario: If we experience a major climate shift where there was a long-term problem of the supply of food not being able to adequately feed the population, would you be in favor of forced sterilization to restrict population growth?

# 33 Someone said, on July 16th, 2009 at 10:35 am

#29. Sticks and stones bro’ sticks and stones.

“Gee, I think it went into summer time retreat presumably to mutate and return this fall==just like the Great Flu of 1916.”

Yeah, I’ll hold my breath. But seriously, when was it that you became Fusions bitch?

# 34 bobbo, able to stay within a hypothetical said, on July 16th, 2009 at 10:54 am

#31–SL==of course. What else would be compassionate and rational?

#32–someone==of course, you are right. Over the mark to suggest you will be stupid forever. That would assume you have no interest in learning anything.

My bad.

# 35 deowll said, on July 16th, 2009 at 11:00 am

I think I’ll get my regular flue shot then consider the rest.

# 36 Sea Lawyer said, on July 16th, 2009 at 11:13 am

#33, and you see, that is the source of our disagreement – I don’t take being rational to be that people can be treated like cattle, even if I’ve rationalized that it’s in their best interests.

# 37 Nom de Guerre said, on July 16th, 2009 at 11:14 am

Ten dumbass reasons why people don’t get their flu shots

http://pusware.com/rdct/?p=92

case closed!

# 38 LDA said, on July 16th, 2009 at 11:28 am

Enforced quarantine – possibly reasonable under some circumstances.

Enforced injection of vaccine including from Baxter who sent bird flu contaminated seasonal flu vaccines all over Europe and wide-scale forced testing (this will be testing) which is in breach of the the Nuremberg Code – dangerous / insane / immoral.

# 39 bobbo, as Sea Lawyer starts to babble said, on July 16th, 2009 at 11:30 am

#35–SL==and so WITHIN the hypothetical you proposed, what would you do? Presumably allow/permit/encourage/counsel against people having more kids? I guess then everyone else alive is supposed to get proportionately less food ((ie, within your hypothetical, the weakest in numbers equal to the newborn must starve to death)), or is it that the parents of the new kiddies do not get any additional food at all and then the choice of themselves or their own kiddies starving becomes their choice?

What is the humane thing to do on lifeboat earth if there is only enough food to feed those currently living?

# 40 Sea Lawyer said, on July 16th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

#38, gee thanks bobbo, you’ve saved me from having to babble, since somewhere in there you’ve expressed my answer for me.

# 41 Aaron_W said, on July 16th, 2009 at 12:07 pm

Considering how mild this “pandemic” seems to be why is there such a rush to inject children with rushed though vaccination shots? I never get flu shots and I never get the flu. Why would I want to get a shot that probably was rushed through the process in order to fight a flu strain that seems to be weak compared to regular old seasonal flu? People keep throwing around how millions will die and those not getting “a shot of protection” may as well just start digging the hole now. I can’t imagine living in a state of panic like that.

Seems like this swine flu panic is as overblown as it was in the 70’s.

# 42 bobbo, not seeing a direct response said, on July 16th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

#39–SL==so what is your answer?

# 43 LDA said, on July 16th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

# 38 bobbo, as Sea Lawyer starts to babble

There is enough food to feed those currently living. 36 million die each year from starvation (they should get a job).

For example, Australia which is mostly dry and highly drought prone is capable of feeding double it’s population and does through export (even with highly inefficient and wasteful water management), most of Europe’s cut flowers come from Africa (instead of Africa growing food), British farmers are paid not to farm their land, Zimbabwe – Mugabe – bullet to the head, etc. etc.

# 44 bobbo, stating the obvious said, on July 16th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

#42–LDA==what you say is completely 100% correct – - – - but irrelevant. I am responding to a limited fact set hypothetical proposed by Sea Lawyer. Evidently, he doesn’t even understand his own hypothetical because he left himself with only self centered asshole LIBERTARIAN choices, then criticizes “moi” as being anti-humanitarian.

As is the case for most people who don’t even understand what a hypothetical is, the truth is just the opposite.

Will SL man up and admit his error, or claim tangent? Curious people want to know.

# 45 Misanthropic Scott said, on July 16th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

Just in case anyone wants to actually read about the real mercury issue from a publication dedicated to debunking myths, check this out from the Skeptics Society.

http://tinyurl.com/kkba2a

# 46 Luke, couldn't think of a brilliant tag line said, on July 16th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

# bobbo, stating the obvious

I was not countering the hypothetical I was contributing to the wider discussion. 36 million people die from starvation while being ‘helped’ by the same people (WHO etc.) that want to force vaccinate the population of the world for a virus that has killed few with a vaccine produced partly by Baxter who a couple of months ago sent vaccines contaminated with live bird flu (which is a great way to get a mutated strain started) all over Europe and people suggest only stupid conspiracy theorists with there wacko theories object to forced vaccination because they are ignorant of science.

I quoted your post for clarity only. The points I made are relevant for the growing zombie population that assert there are too many people.

Parallel scenario, if climate change is a scam and there was enough food for everyone would you agree to forced euthanasia of advocates of forced euthanasia and catastrophic climate change.

If the moon was made of cheese and you were the Führer of the New World Order would you…

# 47 bobbo, the student to the Master said, on July 16th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

#45–Luke==the force of clear logic is turning you to the dark side. Pull UP!!! Before it is too late.

Hypotheticals are of great value to set parameters to define terms to differentiate about what the decision points in a dialectic really are. Too many people are too fuzzy in their own thinking, they don’t even actually understand why they think what they think, or rather, what they think they think because they aren’t thinking at all, just parrotry.

So I like hypotheticals and try not to avoid them by claiming they don’t take in enough facts, or are otherwise not up to some other point they aren’t even trying to address.

Capiche?

To your point–there was no wider discussion about food. The only discussion was within the hypothetical frames for unknown reasons as yet, by Sea Lawyer. Evidently, you don’t know the function of a hypothetical either. It is not a launching stage for whatever tangents you wish to introduce. Such diversions destroy the beauty and utility of the learning moment==one learns nothing from hop scotching from issue to issue.

Now, I don’t know, and assume you don’t know either, that the same people at Who do not advocate/manage the vaccination program as the food program. So, very simply you are wrong. THAT doesn’t “add” anything to a discussion, relevant or otherwise.

Are there too many people? ((One of Scott’s favorite harangues.)) Thats all definitional and totally dependent on how you define the terms==hypotheticals of a sort again. Course, I think there is some sort of “dodge” going on with people starving to death but the causation is only food distribution issues and not overpopulation. There will ALWAYS be food distribution problems so that is a variable that in good faith drops out of consideration.

I so agree with you fanciful hypothetical. Those knowingly scamming people and causing death would certainly be eligible for the death penalty or other suitable punishment for such knowing crimes===all within your hypothetical.

# 48 Uncle Patso said, on July 16th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

Man! Thimerisol, Thiomersal, Thimerosal, Merthiolate, how many names does this stuff have?

I think the conspiracy theorists have it backwards — it’s the “we need to kill off a lot of people” crowd encouraging the anti-vaccine groups…

# 49 Luke, clear logic is your enemy said, on July 16th, 2009 at 3:14 pm

# 46 bobbo, has anyone seen my nose (and others)

Capisco, your English (and Americanized Italian) is perfectly comprehensible.

I do understand the concept of a hypothetical scenario (and even have a dictionary) and if you can respond to the hypothetical I posed then I assume you understand that and your rhetorical flourishes are for your own enjoyment.

I am contributing to the wider discussion as are you, “Did You Know Enforced Swine Flu Shot This Fall Is Really Multiple Shots?” with special attention to the compulsory element and have .

It would however seem that you have mostly averted to your two way hypothetical culdesac, which has it’s own value I understand (for one thing it gave me the opportunity to contribute the argument about food for which I am grateful).

“There will ALWAYS be food distribution problems”, I suspect vaccine distribution problems to be much less of a problem.

Re: WHO, you do not know, therefor I am wrong? Interesting logic.
The Director-General is responsible for the whole WHO body (that is why it is called an organization and why they are called the Director-General). It does not matter what individuals or sections wish to advocate the organization as a whole mandates how both programs will be ‘managed’.

“…you don’t know the function of a hypothetical either. It is not a launching stage for whatever tangents you wish to introduce.”

If this blog were not a launching stage for hypothetical two way conversations or tangential arguments it would have much less traffic. The hypothetical situation was a tangent from the post and my comment was a tangent from the hypothetical. So what? The points I made were not purely for your consumption or to counter your arguments.

Wakarimashita?

# 50 Sea Lawyer said, on July 16th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

#43, well bobbo, since you are clearly opposed to any position I might take that doesn’t jive with your anti “LIEBERTARIAN” one, then there really is no reason to continue, but just to humor you, I will.

You should very easily be able to see a similarity between supporting forced sterilization during a severe, long-term food shortage, and supporting forced vaccination during a global pandemic. Both come with the idea that you have some authority to assume absolute control over the very body of another person because you’ve deemed that the right of a person to control their own body isn’t important when the rights of society (whatever that means) is concerned. And as I also said, this is completely different than prohibiting people from taking a shit in the drinking water.

So as I suggested, you appear to have the belief that, should you deem it necessary, people are nothing more than cattle to be lined up to have whatever done to them that you think is for their own good.

# 51 soundwash said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

i fail to see why there is all this hoopla over the swine flu..it hasn’t even hit regular flu levels in thew U.S. yet..

*shrug* i’ll stick with my silver solution, tyvm.

-s

# 52 bobbo, hey Batman-not a decent argument here said, on July 16th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

#48–Luke==”jotu mati” your aim would have been more clear had you NOT referenced your comments to MY POST. From that perspective, being worse than tangential, being completely irrelevant to the hypothetical that WAS under discussion is not adding anything to the discussion. As stated, it operated to minimize and kill it. Point – Counterpoint. Not Point === something else totally irrelevant. A conversation. Not ad libs. Choose the high road Luke. Bakka Bakka otherwise.

#49–SL==well, the biggest reason to respond is so I can show you where you are WRONG. While we can both save time by you assuming your disagreements with me are all wrong, you actually have the chance of learning something by responding. No one has learned everything there is to know, hopefully we honor learning and look forward to it without spite?

You still haven’t answered the question. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? The alternatives I offered are not identical, they have different ramifications on the morality scale. Of course I see similarities. AND I see dissimilarities. I weigh and contrast them. I rank order and process them thru different value systems. Self Actualization, public responsibility, LIEBERTARIANISM, profligate reproductive irresponsibility, foreseeable harm, relative harm etc.

In YOUR hypothetical, my main value is in respecting a conscious formed living consciousness–a born human being–over the potentialities of the unborn. How humane/responsible is it to bring a child into this world that you can’t feed? How humane is it to bring a child into this world and feed it by taking food away from another human being? “IF” I am treating people like cattle, how would you characterize your limited choices? Hmmmm?

but its funny you critize me for not seeing similarities when that is the very flaw you exhibit. You agree that there should be no freedom to shit in the public water supply but FAIL to see that shitting enfluenza virii into the air supply is not EXACTLY the same thing. What a dismal lack of insight.

So—what would you do SL?

# 53 Glenn E. said, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

Kids who get the shots are theoretically not likely to catch whatever is going around. Only the kids who’s parents elect now to immunize, are at risk. So why are the authorities bothered by people exercising their free will to take this risk? The school systems aren’t going to forbid the parents from taking their kids on dangerous vacations. Or to theme parks where they might get hurt on rides. Or eat food of questionable quality. No, they’re only worried about them getting these shots. Whether they actually work or not.

Let’s face it, this is just another money making scheme for the pharms. Forcing those who can’t afford private schools, or home schooling, to get their kids medicated. One day soon, it will be mandatory anti-cholesterol meds for the kids. Because the schools’ lunch programs are a dietary mess!

I wonder. Do they force the teachers to get these shots too? I’ll bet not. Not with the kind of union they’ve got. So how are they stopping anything, by immunizing just the kids?

# 54 Luke, I am your father said, on July 16th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

#51 bobbo ======== the force, has got a lot of power, and, it makes me feel like, it, it makes me feel like… OOOOH!

Tangent; latin – touching (on). Global warming > not enough food – (tangent) – not enough food > people say that already > there is enough food. Simple really.

“#49–SL==well, the biggest reason to…”.

I guess I didn’t kill your facsinating intillectual stoush (I guess you do not understand what kill means). The only way I could minimize it is WITH A LOT OF UNNECESSARY CAPITALIZATION == and ===== punctuation.

Toboo nuki.

# 55 Mr. Fusion said, on July 16th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

#26, Someone,

Bird Flu is still around. The largest reason it has not become more prevelant is the way it effects the body. Its infection rate is very low for an influenza.

The infection takes root deep in the lungs. That means the virus must be breathed deeply in. So far all those who have come down with the disease were poultry workers. It was their constant proximity that allowed them to catch the disease. Yet those same effected workers do not infect others.

Scientists are worried that it might mutate to something that does not need to be so deeply inhaled. Then it would become much more communicable.

Good point.

# 56 bobbo, not seeing the missteps of logic said, on July 17th, 2009 at 5:07 am

#53–Luke==your star fighter is vacillating and cartwheeling out of control. We hear your communication, but it is garbled beyond recognition. Switch to back up frequencies.

If the question is would reduced populations reduce the incidence of starvation, the fact that enough food is grown to feed everyone is not dispositive. You see, there is more than one variable. I know, always more difficult to think about multi-variable events. So whatever tangential addition you think you are making serves only to misdirect.

Turn away from the dark side.

# 57 Mr. Fusion said, on July 17th, 2009 at 7:01 am

#49, SL,

Bobbo is quite correct in his analogy. And I don’t agree with him solely for his good looks.

Where I live, everyone has a septic system and everyone uses well water. If your septic fails or you decide you shouldn’t have to use it, your raw sewage can enter the aquifer that the rest of us drink from. And yes, there have been some knuckle dragging, back to nature, gun nut, Liebertarian, red neck types that insist they don’t have to meet the County’s Septic Standards. And that is shitting in MY drinking water.

The right of the individual can never outweigh the right of the society to exist. The best example is that of Typhoid Mary; a cook that was a carrier of typhoid even though she never displayed any symptoms a century ago. Even though she was aware she carried the disease and was infecting others, she refused to stop working in food preparation. Several people are known to have died as a result and she ended up being held in an asylum, twice. The second time until she died.

So, either you agree that Typhoid Mary had a right to ignore the safety of everyone else around her OR society had the right to hold her against her will for the good of all.

Influenza is most contagious during the first few days of infection, even though the person might not have any symptoms yet. After the body’s immune system starts taking control, the contagious aspect is reduced significantly.

# 58 FloMax said, on August 18th, 2009 at 11:35 am

Folks you have got to do diligent research on forced vaccinations upcomming.Visit websites of Dr. Shari Tenpenny or Dr. Mercola or go to website http://www.naturalnews.com and look for Swine flu vaccinations info. Do research on the 1916 Swine Flu pandemic that killed millions worldwide and the horror that occurred in hospitals. Another good source of information is website of Geroge Noory on Coast to Coast AM radio 840 on your dial 10:00 pm (pst) nightly on radio with guest experts WARNING the public of what is comming and WHY.

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