The US, Britain and France united in condemnation of Iran on Friday after Tehran’s admission that it has been constructing a secret uranium enrichment facility that Washington fears could help produce a nuclear bomb.
As the world’s major powers prepare to meet Iran next week for critical talks on its nuclear programme, US President Barack Obama disclosed the existence of the plant, 160km south of Tehran.
On Saturday, Iranian media reported that the Revolutionary Guards will stage missile defence exercises starting on Sunday. The war games announcement is expected to futher heighten the nuclear dispute.
Iran has been enriching uranium at the plant in Natanz under inspection but it had never before admitted the existence of the second site to the United Nations’ nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency.
“What should we (USA) do?” We are all agreed that doing nothing, aka imposing sanctions, will result in Iran having nukes with rockets in 3-5 years? Do we trust Iraq to be responsible with these weapons or will they use them directly or give them to fanatics?
I think the risk is too high Iraq will use them. So what we should do is “easy.” Tell them to stop and if they don’t bomb the sh*t out of their military nuclear facilities with advice that if they retaliate then the rest of their military sites will be taken out.
Pretty simple really.
Israel was founded by the forced removal and/or killing of the natives as part of a western plan…which resulted in generations of refugees kept poverty-stricken and oppressed in camps within sight of their ancestral land….I’d say that’s not ok, but apparently you think it’s fine.
Jews used to live peacefully within the Muslim world…it was only when they started trying to grab someone else’s land for their own that things got rough. Again, this is not our fight in any case. We should step out of the way rather than defend what a billion people in the area consider the wrong side of the conflict.
And for your last statement, I’ll grant that most of the anger is in the Arab world…so let’s just say 400 million of the 407 million people in the Mideast…Israelis are still a tiny minority considering the trouble they cause. Are they really worth the possible world consequences of this conflict continuing in the age of nukes and other WMD? Really?
Nice colonial view of Arab societies you’ve got there Bobbo…who are you to say how other societies arrange themselves? We have to respect their choices even if we don’t like them. This West-centric view is why we thought we could change Afghanistan and Iraq into quiet little versions of Indiana.
re #81–of course Iraq = Iran.
Nice pics here:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10362358-264.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
“the facility has a primary and several auxiliary entrances, ventilation shafts, a surface-to-air missile site….”
#82–MP==”Nice colonial view of Arab societies you’ve got there Bobbo…who are you to say how other societies arrange themselves?” /// Gee, Mike I just wake up each morning and accept the world they way it is. YOU are the one saying a National State in existence for 60 years shouldn’t be there. Isn’t your complaint aimed at yourself?
Besides, a large part of why Israel (sic) got formed was because the arabs in that area fought on the side of Germany during WW2. Looks like the Palestinians have a good losing streak going for them. Why do you care?
>Tell them to stop and if they don’t bomb the sh*t out of their military nuclear facilities
What military nuclear facilities? Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty, and as such is entitled to nuclear power plants, subject to IAEA inspection. Iran is asserting her rights to nuclear power, and is protecting her facilities to prevent the type of attack that took out Iraq’s Osirak reactor in 1982.
Awwgh Micky==you were going so well there for 2-3 posts. I even complimented you over on Roman Polanski. What part of “Military Nuclear” sites do you not understand? M – I – L – I – T – A – R – Y!!!”
I accept the missle battery could be for defense but the site itself is for enrichment to make nuclear bombs==ie, a military site.
Seems pretty straight forward to me. Micky==do you think the world would be a better place with Iran producing 2-3 Nukes per year?
Why do you care?
Because, Bobbo, we’ve been defending them and making ourselves the justified target of the hatred of the Arab Muslims for decades. Our foreign policy has consistently had us opposed to the majority of other countries in the world and on the side of a state that has repeatedly disregarded UN resolutions. Israel has dragged us down and it’s time they faced the music on their own.
—Gee, Mike I just wake up each morning and accept the world they way it is. YOU are the one saying a National State in existence for 60 years shouldn’t be there. Isn’t your complaint aimed at yourself?—-
Sorry Bobbo, you’re not making sense. YOU said that the way they arrange their societies around religion is “offbase”…doesn’t sound so accepting.
I said we should mind our own business and stop taking sides. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be there, but I AM saying we should not be defending them. What their neighbors want to do is between them and the neighbors. If they’d been good neighbors, they’d have nothing to worry about. But it shouldn’t be our fight.
I don’t want me or my kids killed because we took sides in a fight that does not concern us..
#86–MP==actually, I agree with most of what you have posted. Maybe not some of the underlying support/ideas you use, like who really cares about UN resolutions, but in the main==yes, I agree.
History is hard to second guess. Would the USA be better off, in what ways, had we not supported the founding and growth of Israel? What would a more united Middle East mean to the West given our oil dependence? Would we then be oil dependent if the Middle East were so united?
Yes, hard to say how the USA would be better off.
Everyone is for doing what is in the USA’s best interests. No one can figure out what that is though.
Is the Mid East oil really worth the trillions of dollars America has sunk into is through various wars, bribes and puppet governments? Had that money been invested in alternative energy and technology, there’s a good chance you’d only need half the oil you import now.
Of course big oil, the arms industry and all the scumbag war profiteers would never let that happen. Foreign policy is driven by these arseholes. Everyone’s in it for themselves. Nothing is done in the ‘USA’s best interests’. Its to make the rich richer. No other reason. Just like the rich selling America’s soul to the Chinese bit by bit. It all about the money.
/end_rant
Well Hugh–I agree with everything you post==I just can’t figure out what it has to do with this thread.
Care to connect the dots, or was this your kneejerk random rant for today/this week/how long?
#77 So that’s why the middle east wackos came up with those absurd rants at the UN. After those & your post, I have no doubt reason is behind Ahmedinahnuts & Kookdafy. Want a tent for your home?
#78 Unlike the very democratic religious nuts in Iran? Double standards, I see.
#82 Apparently, you selectively take facts (I’m accepting your point for the sake of argument) from the creation of the state of Israel to settle a 2000 year old argument. How convenient!
#85 Trouble (or at least the latest one) is that they conveniently forgot to say they were building another facility, which is a violation of IAEA’ policies. Ooops!
Good for you in helping show the world how useless the UN is.
#89 So basically Obama is also after middle eastern oil. Man, what a change!
#90 Bobbo
The relationship of my rant to this thread is rather tenuous I guess. I just don’t get America’s obsession with Iran. The US has been fucking with them since WW2 and it could be said that US involvement in Iranian affairs was the catalyst for their Islamic revolution. Enough already.
Attacking Iran and destroying their nuclear plants will stabilise the region? It will only fuel further nationalism and push the Iranian people, who are gradually becoming more bold and secular, back into the hands of the religious nutters.
Iran is entitled to nuclear power and is only protecting its interests. Even if they get the bomb, they have nothing to gain by using it.
#92 Way to rationalize thuggery. I guess they’re also entitle to lie to the international community, de-stabilize other country and mock th UN.
#92–Hugh==closer than oil, given the time frames, are involvement with, in, and over Iran, Iraq, and Israel were all about the cold war against the Ruskies. Easy to forget I see.
Also easy to cast a Blind Eye over how crazy the Ayatolha’s are? I can’t see ANY rationale person not concluding it would be very dangerous for Iran to be making 2-3 Nukes per year. All they need to deliver any said Nuke against Israel, or Iraq, or anywhere else, is a pickup truck and a volunteer. Same opinion regarding Korea and Pakistan. The clock just keeps ticking.
Look at our own home grown: Alfie. Just waiting for the Rupture.
Let Israel handle it. We can back them up by keeping the UN off their backs.
Bobbo, I don’t accept that Iran is making nuclear bombs. Has the IAEA found them in violation? I see that they have purchased some centrifuges from Pakistan, developed some of their own, and tested some short range missiles. Has the IAEA found any of Iran’s nuclear materials to have been diverted for other purposes? Do we have any reason to think Iran has co-opted the IAEA’s processes?
The stories from Iranian dissident groups about her nuclear weapons programs look similar to the stories from Iraqi dissidents groups that Bill Gertz reported a decade ago.
#96–Mike==where do you draw the line with religious nutbags who have stated their intention to “wipe” Israel from the map? No one says they are building bombs “right now.” Right now, they are only building things not relevant to the production of electricity, and that are ONLY relevant to the building of nukes. Iran is CLEARLY building the parts necessary to build a bomb.
I don’t trust Iran to act rationally, why do you?
No, I don’t trust Iran to act ‘rationally.’ Reagan said ‘trust bit verify’. There is an inspection regime in place, and if that regime is operating properly, then why assume that Iran will have nuclear weapons?
What is Iran building that is not relevant to the building of nukes? The newly declared facility is allegedly a 3000 centrifuge facility similar to the currently operating one with 8000 centrifuges, and according to Iran, not operational for another 18 months.
It looks to me like Iran is waiting to be bombed before building any nuclear weapons, just like Saddam tried to do.
Mike==if you don’t trust Iran to be rational, then whats the issue?
You lost me at: “What is Iran building that is not relevant to the building of nukes?” The only sense I can make of that was just answered in my prior two posts.
The IAEA cannot inspect facilities that Iran is keeping a secret which is forbidden by treaties they signed and affirm each year. Are you so naive as to think this announced secret facility is the only secret facility they have? Do you???????
Iran is not rational. Bomb the shit out of them before black market dirty nukes flood the market.
>Mike==if you don’t trust Iran to be rational, then whats the issue?
I’m more scared that Iran is rational. From their perspective, and many other countries, having a nuke is protection against invasion.
So yes, they have the incentive to acquire nuclear weapons. That does not mean she will acquire them.
Under the NPT agreements, Iran is only obligated to reveal a facility 6 months before it is operational. Here they are revealing it 18 months beforehand, presumably because they found out others knew about it.
I don’t know what other secret facilities Iran has. We were told of many secret facilities that Iraq was operating too. It is not easy to build nuclear weapons. The centrifuges to produce even small amounts of uranium are expensive, and should be detectible. Iran is not a natural source of uranium, and as such would have to purchase uranium from another country, which itself is a signatory of the NPT. These purchases would be reviewed, and all uranium must be accounted for by the IAEA.
The NPT is binding on all signatories, not just Iran. Under the NPT, Iran is allowed to have peaceful nuclear power. Wy do you wish to violate the NPT and deny Iran a nuclear power plant?
As for a black market dirty nuke, if it is dirty then it will kill the guy who buys it, not the people he is targeting.