Bad translation upon worse translations manipulated for political ends. Here’s another example that makes the God-was-an-alien-experimental-biogenetisist seem more plausible. Assuming you ignore the staggering amount of physical evidence for evolution, that is.

Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and author, claims the first sentence of Genesis “in the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth” is not a true translation of the Hebrew.

She claims she has carried out fresh textual analysis that suggests the writers of the great book never intended to suggest that God created the world — and in fact the Earth was already there when he created humans and animals.
[…]
She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb “bara”, which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean “to create” but to “spatially separate”. The first sentence should now read “in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth.”
[…]
She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient texts.

[…]”There was already water,” she said.

“There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding.”




  1. ECA says:

    “on earth as it is in Heaven..”..

    Ok yu religious nuts, when are ya going to do it??
    MAKE this world as good as heaven?
    Iv been trying my best, but I havent seen any of you HELPING. And Im not religious.

  2. Thinker says:

    #149 Bobbo,

    I know what you mean about the sins of others. Although its doctrinal about the sins of Adam, I really only relate to my own sins, I’m very familiar with them.

  3. Alfred1 says:

    Lefty philosophy has cursed mankind, and still does, with death, destruction and poverty…Hitler, Stalin, Marx…have killed uncounted millions…

    And today, rather than tax cuts and less regulation to create jobs…lefty plans to put more small business under with health care, cap & tax, abound.

    And the loons pushing such darkness, abound here, blaspheming God (who is the source of all good)…

    How typical…bite the hand that feeds…

    Analogous to taxing and regulating the rich out of existence, and then wondering why they don’t hire, as unemployment skyrockets!

  4. Alfred1 says:

    #150 Your wretched thesis is contradicted by you citing “subdue the sea”…where was the “cleaning” as this phrase exists in scripture?

    It must be hard lugging around such a big brain large enough to hold so much ignorance.

    Poetic license was taken to extol God

    Verses [Psalm 77]16–18 depict the Lord coming in the storm to battle his enemies and subdue the sea. There is no record of such a storm in the historical account of the Red Sea crossing. The language the psalmist uses here is stereotypical and originates in Canaanite myth, where the storm god Baal subdues the sea in his quest for kingship. The psalmist has employed the stereotypical imagery to portray the exodus vividly and at the same time affirm that it is not Baal who subdues the sea, but Yahweh.-Footnote, NET Bible.

  5. Wretched Gnu says:

    Alfred — Your NET Bible commentary proves the point I made quite nicely. Thanks!

  6. Alfred1 says:

    #155 I suspected you would continue to misinterpret this…its poetic license…designed to denigrate Baal, and extol YHWH…it does not show dependence, or ancestry at all…

    An analogy would be the Catholic church’s appropriation of old pagan feasts, and changing them into Christian holidays…for the purpose of destroying the old pagan belief.

    Christmas falls into that category…Christ and the teachings about him do not originate in the Roman beliefs about Saturnalia…making Dec 25 his “birthday” was meant to destroy the old Roman belief in such paganism…replacing it with Christianity.

    So NO DEPENDENCE is proved by this poetic license…contrary to your premise.

    As for the alleged “cleansing of the Bible,” that did not happen, and the fact it didn’t happen, are the very texts you critics cite…to spin additional blasphemies against God’s Word.

  7. Alfred1 says:

    That is, the very texts you cite showing “pagan ancestry of Bible teachings” proves the alleged “cleansing” of such texts, never happened.

  8. Alfred1 says:

    And neither do these texts prove your thesis of “pagan ancestry”—you are misinterpreting this data also.

  9. Wretched Gnu says:

    Keep posting, Alfred, you’ll convince yourself eventually.

  10. qb says:

    It depends on what you mean by the cleansing of the Septuagint (and others books). More than likely, the somewhat current version of the Septuagint was translated by Hellenistic Jews in Alexandria in the 3rd century by dozens of scholars.

    After this it flowed to the Christian church through the Jews of the Dispersion. Pre 3rd Century, it’s a fragmented mess which is why scholars (faithful or not) study similar texts and languages from earlier times looking for origins. All these stories were oral history for a long time and were written down at various times in various places.

  11. bobbo, libertarianism fails when it becomes dogma says:

    #160–qb==if you make it back here and care to answer: in your opinion, is the bible/god then really a carry on development of an earlier mythos that had THE VERY SAME GOD contesting with other gods in an already formed universe?

    Seems what little comparative religion and history of religion I have dabbled in started after this issue got entangled in the modern/hebrew? bible.

    Fascinating if the Holy Trinity and subduing the oceans and what not is FAIRLY SPEAKING revealing of that apotheosis?

  12. Thomas says:

    #156
    Frankly, no one can say with certainty whether the Church deliberately set the date for Christmas. There is insufficient evidence to implicate or exonerate. Most of the customs of the festival definitely derive from non-Catholic sources and what information we do have about his birth, presuming it is accurate would argue against a winter birth but that is not enough to argue a deliberate decision whereby the Church leaders knew his birth to be on a different day but chose December 25th. There is some evidence to suggest that the date was picked to coincide with the Natalis Invicti (solar feast) which would make Mithraism the source of the date but again, there isn’t enough to say for certain.

  13. segaar says:

    Alfred rocks!

  14. The new mam says:

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  15. Joseph says:

    this makes no sense…if it is as you say…the God(Elohim) is not an eternal God…by you saying that you are basically contradicting the bible on His omnipresence….because heaven and earth where already there…..so answer this where did God come from..and why do all other verse in psalms and Isaiah say “he created” and “he will create”….


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