Did Pilots “Forget” to Land Airliner… or Were They Just Catching up on some ZZZZZZZZZ’s?

Published on October 23rd, 2009

An inquiry has begun after a US plane heading from San Diego to Minneapolis missed the airport it was meant to land at by 150 miles (240km). Contact with the Northwest Airlines plane was lost for an hour as it flew at 37,000ft, sparking hijack fears. The crew said they had been distracted by a “heated discussion” but officials will check if they had fallen asleep.

Flight 188, carrying 147 passengers, landed safely at Minneapolis after contact was resumed. A statement released by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said: “The crew stated they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and lost situational awareness.” Board spokesman Keith Holloway told the Associated Press news agency that reports that the pilots may have fallen asleep were “speculative” but the investigation would look at “fatigue issues”.

The plane’s cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder have been taken from the plane and are being sent to the board’s laboratory in Washington, DC. The plane left San Diego at 1500 local time (2200 GMT) for what would normally be a three-hour journey. Air traffic controllers lost radio contact with the plane approximately an hour before it was due to reach its destination of Minneapolis-St Paul International/Wold-Chamberlain Airport. The plane missed its intended stop and continued on for a further 16 minutes before the airline managed to speak to the pilots.

This is at least the fourth incident of this type in as many years.

26 users responded in " Did Pilots “Forget” to Land Airliner… or Were They Just Catching up on some ZZZZZZZZZ’s? "

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# 1 Dallas said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 9:44 am

I usually get sleepy too after a BJ

# 2 scotterotter said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 10:37 am

Before deregulation, my dad (a commercial pilot) was home around 15 days a month. After deregulation, his pay was cut in half, his pension disappeared and he was home about 5 days a month and all he did was sleep before he had to fly out again. I knew it was bad when he no longer wanted me to follow in his footsteps. He would be the first to condemn these pilots, but the industry would be a close second when it came to blame.

# 3 freddybobs68k said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 10:42 am

In ‘Capitalism: A love story’ they show commercial pilots who earn <$20k a year. One guy had to collect food stamps, and another worked two jobs.

Probably not what a pilot to have to do.

# 4 wbskeet37 said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 am

Quoted from a friend who is a pilot…

“Sometimes its hard to stay awake. Flying over Nebraska really does not do a lot to inspire.”

# 5 busdriver320 said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 11:01 am

There are a lot of stories about the ‘lifestyle’ of pilots these days trying to make ends meet. The LA Times recently ran a story about the city, complete with unofficial mayor in one of the LAX parking lots. Nice.

As for FAR scheduling, they have needed to be changed for a while. As long as people can travel cross country for $100, it will never happen- more pilots will be needed to fly the schedule. A perfectly legal pilot line can be built that would absolutely crush a normal person that goes against every circadian rhythm. Do you want to be in the back of an airplane at the end of a long night, flying into NYC with low visibility and strong winds with one of these legal schedules?

As usual, normal warnings have been ignored and now the rules will be changed due to an accident (Colgan/Buffalo)

# 6 jescott418 said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 11:11 am

I have to agree. What is their to do on a flight? Once your in the air then the plane pretty much flies itself. Seems like maybe somebody needs to set a alarm or something.

# 7 Benjamin said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 11:11 am

These planes basically fly themselves. The pilot is just there to land and take off and avoid hitting other airplanes.

# 8 ArianeB said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 11:13 am

Before 9/11 caused all cockpit doors to be locked and bolted, the rest of the flight crew could look in on the pilots.

# 9 moi said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 am

Trust me, it is easier than you think to get preoccupied. Much like a military flight crew, three pilots, Navigator, two flight engineers, all get caught up in conversation and goofing off and being tired on a 12 hour flight. So much so that you overfly the small pacific island that was your destination, by 20 minutes.

Fortunately things are a little more informal out in the middle of the ocean. In other-wards everyone laughs about it, military ground controllers included. I wont tell you how i know this. LOL

# 10 chuck said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 11:43 am

I’ll have to try that excuse out:

“Yeah, I was listening to every word you said, I just lost situational awareness.”

# 11 Pete said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 12:49 pm

I just flew on a Northwest flight from San Diego to Minneapolis about a month ago! Scary, freaky weird.

# 12 bobbo, international airline transport consultant said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 2:31 pm

#9–moi==I really can’t imagine such a thing happening. No conversation lasts more than 5 minutes and few are interesting.

Its not “overflying” a point that is what the news focuses on==how about starting the descent 200 miles out? How about checking your navigational progress every checkpoint/15 minutes? How about updating destination weather an hour out? Monitoring fuel on board/time to burnout?

There is a whole lot more ((not)) going on than simply missing the destination.

THE WHOLE FRIGGING CREW????? I’d claim interdimensional kidnapping before “Interesting Conversation.”

# 13 AdmFubar said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 6:25 pm

it is one of two things,

a) they fell asleep
b) or someone made the mile high club,; then see ‘a’

how can you not hear any tower calling? conversation my ass…

# 14 McCullough said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 6:26 pm

#12. So you’re saying the media isn’t giving us the real story??? Shocked I am.

# 15 Thinker said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 7:42 pm

Oy! It will be interesting to see what they find on the voice tapes of this flight.

I think i may just be more in favor of re-regulation of some kind.

# 16 bobbo, international airline transport consultant said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 9:19 pm

#14–McCullough==from what I’ve seen on TV==the media is simple “reporting” the story thats being told. Yea==falling asleep makes sense, especially if they were called out of order or what not. The rules for safety can actually set up a crew to be dead tired “but legal” to fly. Would still be unusual for both pilots to get that bad. In the same situation I could see one pilot telling the other they are going to catch a nap and to wake them in 15 minutes. Thats all it should take. I don’t believe “sex”—everyone would be too jealous/competitive to allow it and both pilots at once would be a heck of a three-way==maybe four with the autopilot, assuming no female pilot? Drugs==they tested clean.

Fell asleep, embarassed==it will come out quickly.

Voice recorder is only the 30 minutes before crash/landing so won’t be anything there unless it gets mentioned. But it doesn’t even matter==whatever it was, off with their heads.

# 17 Glenn E. said, on October 23rd, 2009 at 10:29 pm

Hmmm. Or…. maybe the pilots came up with this plan to bring attention to their working conditions. Because they’re not getting any news coverage, merely griping about it. Is it merely a coincidence this came days after the “Balloon Boy” story? A runaway balloon with a child on board. And now a runaway plane, with over a hundred people on board.

The pilots covered their act, by running out the Flight Recorder’s 30 minute time limit. It only recorded the last 30 minutes, it took to return the airport and land. Convenient. Their plane didn’t have one of the newer 2 hour models. That might have either recorded them sleeping, or talking about making a newsworthy example for reducing crews’ flying hours.

Back when the Air Traffic Controllers wanted to make a similar example. They first enforced the minimum following distance between landing planes. Which had been shortened by the airports, to cram in more arriving flights. Then they tried a “sick out”. And the Reagan Administration fired their asses. While these pilots aren’t federal employees. It would surprise me if the govt didn’t put some pressure on them to NOT SCREW WITH THE MAJOR CARRIERS. Or they’ll lose their pilot license, which IS govt controlled. Capishe?!

# 18 Animby said, on October 24th, 2009 at 2:03 am

# 3 freddybobs68k said, “In ‘Capitalism: A love story’ they show commercial pilots who earn <$20k a year."

Oh, well, if Mikey Moore said it, it must be true! Maybe they were Cuban commercial pilots? I doubt you will find many US airline pilots earning less than 20K per year. The term commercial does not necessarily mean pilots who fly passengers. Think crop dusters and cargo and mail carriers in Alaska.

How embarrassing for you, though, telling people you watch Moore's films!

# 19 eeeer said, on October 24th, 2009 at 4:32 am

I’m sure Adam will be all over this, he being a total authority on all aviation because he has a private pilot’s license.

I’m sure he’ll say it’s utterly impossible for them to have gone to sleep, or have had an argument, or anything other than….you guessed it…”something funny’s going on here”.

# 20 McCullough said, on October 24th, 2009 at 8:37 am

One word…Texting. But seriously, I’m surprised they don’t have cameras monitoring the cockpit AND the cabin these days.

# 21 adnium said, on October 24th, 2009 at 8:53 am

Could you explain the redundant (read: grammatically incorrect) apostrophe in “ZZZZZZZZ’s”?

# 22 No fly zone said, on October 24th, 2009 at 9:20 am

Sex in the cockpit? With who? Each other? The cockpit door is locked and opened until the plane has landed. If both pilots died, no one would even know, nor could anyone else even land the plane.

# 23 The Grammar Police said, on October 24th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

#21: “Could you explain the redundant (read: grammatically incorrect) apostrophe in “ZZZZZZZZ’s”?” — adnium

Although the use of an apostrophe in “ZZZZZZZZ’s” is grammatically incorrect, it is technically not redundant. (Here’s a link to a good explanation on what I’m talking about)

redundant = superfluous, verbose, or tautological ≠ inherently incorrect

But then again… “ZZZZZZZZ’s” should probably be written “Z’s” or “Zs” to avoid the apostrophe issue entirely.

# 24 Rick Cain said, on October 25th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

Of course airline executives would never take a pay cut. The pilots must take one first and then run double shifts to cover their finances.

America sucks.

# 25 metakid said, on October 26th, 2009 at 8:10 am

This is an incident that makes for great conspiracy theory materials. LOL. That aside, I think being a pilot is a job that requires being constantly alert and fresh. I thought this video has got some interesting points about napping and how that can work out: http://www.newsy.com/videos/mid_air_mistake_sparks_debate_on_pilot_naps

# 26 Mac Guy said, on October 27th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

FAA just revoked their licenses.

http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569867,00.html

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