Is Mandatory Microchipping Your Dog the First Step Toward Chipping Your Child?

Published on March 9th, 2010

Yeah, that headline sounds crazy, but try reading this excerpt from the article and replace the word ‘dog’ with ‘child’ or ‘children’ and see if you can’t imagine it happening.

All dogs are to be compulsorily microchipped so that their owners can be more easily traced under a crackdown on dangerous dogs to be unveiled today.

The package will include extending the dangerous dogs law to cover attacks by dogs on private property to protect postmen, and making third-party insurance compulsory so that victims can be financially compensated.

The measures will be set out by the home secretary, Alan Johnson, who will point to rising public concern that “status dogs” are being used by some irresponsible owners to intimidate communities or as a weapon by gangs.
[...]
Johnson is expected to give details of the package in a speech on crime and antisocial behaviour.

“Britain is a nation of animal lovers, but people have a fundamental right to feel safe on the streets and in their homes,” he said. “The vast majority of dog owners are responsible, but there is no doubt that some people breed and keep dogs for the sole purpose of intimidating others, in a sense using dogs as a weapon.”

43 users responded in " Is Mandatory Microchipping Your Dog the First Step Toward Chipping Your Child? "

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# 1 amodedoma said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:09 am

A great thing for pets. But go ahead and try to get one of those under my skin or the skin of my family. I’d have to be dead to allow it. The scary part is in my mind I can see this coming almost as a certainty. I’ve already warned my kids about fascist bastards and their methods.

# 2 Guyver said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:25 am

I recall seeing on the news about 10 years ago that a family voluntarily had this done to their children. They apparently thought it was cool and felt that this was the way we were heading into the future.

I’ll spare my children from this Orwellian approach for a “better” society.

# 3 Olo Baggins of Bywater said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:30 am

The only practical use of the tags in humans is for identifying bodies. They’re fairly easy to spoof and easy to remove, making them useless for secure live ID. But for remote hikers, mountaineers, solo sailors and such, you should have one.

And remember, these RFID tags can only be read out to a couple inches, max. There are no extended-range readers and cannot be any such reader because the physics doesn’t allow it.

# 4 roughbeast said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:37 am

“a crackdown on dangerous children….”

“… to cover attacks by children on private property, to protect postmen”

“…some people breed and keep children for the sole purpose of intimidating others…”

The substitution doesn’t work so well.

# 5 bobbo, the angular separation in perspective is all that matters said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:46 am

Ah, I wish Darwin had more impact.

I for one will elect to implant my children, wife, myself with these devices.

Its called “information technology” and so far, those with the most information have won the evolutionary race.

I’ll let you grass grazers ignore that while I wolf up the lions share.

hee, hee.

# 6 Improbus said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:48 am

You know what will fix all of this Big Brother crap? Sovereign debt default. Once governments run out of money and can’t borrow they will have to PRIORITIZE and crap like this is going to be at the bottom of the list.

# 7 Universal said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:51 am

rubbish again more of the same trash from Gordon browns mouth. seems to more of a business opportunity for the the insurance corps would not be surprised if some with interests in this dreamed the whole thing up.

yet more rubbish from the labour party again cashing in by installing fear into the publics minds.

Hey tell me this the saying you are what you eat dose that mean Gordon brown eats arse holes ?

# 8 Tom Woolf said, on March 9th, 2010 at 11:08 am

The “substitution” spiel is false logic. One could just as easily use substitution to raise a cry of genocide (“replace ‘your dog’ in any local ‘spay and neuter your dog law’ with ‘race X’, and we are one step closer to killing all race X”) or male genitalia mutilation (“replace ‘grass length’ in any local grass length ordinance with ‘penis’ to become ‘penis length is limited to 5 inches – your penis should be clipped if it exceeds 5 inches’”)

Now, once somebody who is sane (conspiracy theorists need not apply) starts talking about truly creating a law to poke kids with those chips, I’ll jump on your bandwagon and scream oppression with the best of them.

# 9 GigG said, on March 9th, 2010 at 11:09 am

First off I’ve had to get a city license for my dogs for 35 years and still no one is requireing a license for my kid.

That said, no chip is needed we are doing it to ourselves with cell phones.

# 10 Jeff said, on March 9th, 2010 at 11:41 am

This is actually a good idea (never mind the flawed logic of substitute people for cats and dogs). Humans need to be chipped for identification purposes (and other information in general). It would be helpful for medical professionals. It would save a lot of time and possibly lives. No possiblity of a lost or stolen braclet or wallet ID.

As for conspiracy folks (mark of the beast or XYZ) and the like… get a life or better yet, go off grid and allow us to live without you. Go remote a cabin someplace in the middle of nowhere without electricity or running water in a neutral country that is not under United States jurisdiction. We really are better off without your kind.

# 11 dusanmal said, on March 9th, 2010 at 11:58 am

@#3 Physicist by profession and I say not only your claim does not rest on Physics: “And remember, these RFID tags can only be read out to a couple inches, max. There are no extended-range readers and cannot be any such reader because the physics doesn’t allow it.” – but the working readers capable of reading RFIDs at 50-60 feet were demonstrated live and in person two years ago (and can be built cheaply).

Back to the article: this is inhumane even for the animals. Hello nutty Nanny-State Britons: at least give owners option of tattooing your “life saving” ID# instead of implanting foreign devices into the animal bodies.

# 12 Benjamin said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

Bobbo said, “I for one will elect to implant my children, wife, myself with these devices.”

Sound like the mark of the beast to me. I would not get one. Leads to bad consequences:

“And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur”

Revelations 19:20

# 13 LDA said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

No, people have already been chipped.

Also, the good book said…

“Before we begin our banquet, I would like to say a few words. And here they are: Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak! Thank you!”

Think about that.

# 14 Rover said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

If (non-chipped) dogs are outlawed, only outlaws will have dogs.

# 15 Cougar78 said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

Maybe I’m just paranoid but couldn’t this lead to the opposite happening? People who steal animals get their hands on a device to find dogs. Once they know where the dogs are much easier then before, they can steal them very easily for whatever purpose and either disabling or removing the chip so the dog can no longer be tracked.

# 16 spsffan said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

I know a lot of paranoid parents who would jump at the chance to chip their precious little bastards so they could keep tabs on them 24/7.

It’s no fun being a kid anymore!

# 17 Olo Baggins of Bywater said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

dusanmal…this is an LF tag in the photo, probably 128 kHz. The ones that go to longer distances are UHF and use an entirely different reflection technology, at 860-960 MHz.

UHF doesn’t work at all through liquids, therefore the implantable ones use LF and a (relatively) big coil antenna. The antenna operates like a secondary transformer winding, using inductive coupling. And that can’t go out any meaningful distance.

# 18 Olo Baggins of Bywater said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

#15 & #16…(who posted while I was double-checking my data in post #17) these tags don’t work at any distance. You can’t track kids or dogs.

# 19 amodedoma said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

It’s been said that RFID has a very short emission range, and that’s very true. It’s also true that the detector sensor is cheap, small, and can be installed very inconspicuously. What if it were used as some sort of secure ID, and your credit card could only be used with one of these, St. John’s apocalypse come true. It’s not paranoid to think there’s a potential for abuse, it’s a fact.

# 20 Buzz said, on March 9th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

As it should be. You build a defective product, children included, then you should be held liable. (IMO)

# 21 Glenn E. said, on March 9th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

To paraphrase an old bumper sticker… “When it’s against the law to own unchipped dangerous dogs. Only outlaws will own them.” Wow, what a surprise, the some law breakers might have unregistered dangerous dogs. How is chipping all the dogs of owners who obey the laws, going to going to solve the problem of vicious dog owners?

BTW, about chipping people. You’ve already got an ignorant and paranoid public (“truthers”?), who believe US currency notes have RFID strips that satellites can track. How is chipping kids NOT going to set them off? Besides, if implanted anywhere except a vital body part, and they can be chopped off. So the chips would be implanted behind the ear, in the skull. And then you’d have the “mind control” theorists set off. Oh yeah! Like the chips could possibly be hacked into, to send programming into the host’s brain. Betcha the “truthers” will be selling that kind of cow-flop, soon.

# 22 Floyd said, on March 9th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

Where I live, all pets are chipped so Animal Control can return them to their owners if they get away from home and break off their collars (a dog we once had did this). Nothing more is intended, though if your animal is found loose, there’s a fine. You get your dog or cat back, too.

Exception: aggressive dogs can be put down.

Chipping people makes no sense, except in identifying a body.

# 23 Skeptic of the AOBCCS said, on March 9th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

I find the chips very useful… I know how many children I have in stock.

# 24 Breetai said, on March 9th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

#6 except when the governments default the corporations/banks will own everything, they’ll do the chiping.

There’s no stopping it now, we’ve already passed the point of no return. the Bill of Rights are already dead and no one is speaking up about it. I get shouted down every time I mention it on a large forum because the sheep refuse to believe it.

# 25 MikeN said, on March 9th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27047

They had reported that the CEO got an award from the UN, but I couldn’t find that article.

# 26 bobbo, we are all marked by the beast said, on March 9th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

#12–Benji==I know you posted that just to pimp me. That said, stop pretending to be an idiot. You wear it well, but it is tiresome. Adults spouting worse than fairytales. Its not even religious—more false idolatry actually. The only “close” call would have been if I chose an rfd tag with a reference number of 666 which I would avoid using so that Satan Worshipers would not go looking for my kiddies.

“You know”–if anything used to mark something is “the mark of the Beast” that could well descriibe how we navigate ourselves thru our day. I just had to go to DU to check on postings. DU=Mark of the Beast. Your favority radio channels. The key to your front door, etc.

Silly, even by Hooman standards===but, thats the religious for you.

# 27 RSweeney said, on March 9th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

I am not a physicist, but I am a retired EE with direct experience in RFID, including the animal implants.

As far as read range, the TIRIS style pet/animal implants are near field (inductively) coupled.

Unlike far-field e-field coupled tags (like the EPC tag), they have a fairly limited range since the large magnetic field they operate on doesn’t extend very far from the antenna.

As such they have a range limited by the inductive field size of the reader, which is in turn limited by diameter of the coil and power used to energize the coil.

A large coil with an illegal amount of power could read them at several meters, though commonly used readers with legal power are of the several inches to several feet range variety.

RFID has a deep and long history coupled with the intelligence community and a lot technology has entered the public sphere after being developed in the spook world. There is legend in the business (unproven and not well believed — at least by those of us without a high security clearance) that certain intelligence agencies have developed a means of reading passive near-field tags at over 1KM range, but, given the physics, this is a bit difficult to believe. I think it more probable that (If they have something) the agencies have developed a semi-active intermediate transponder to read the tags that can then be remotely energized and read at long distances by heroic measures such as a very large, very high power directional antenna. This makes more sense from a physics perspective and would have the same effect to allow “very long” range reading. I suspect the transducer could be as thin and probably of the same size as a paper poster that one sees in subways and bus stands. But this is speculation on my part as I have not done all the math for it.

# 28 bobbo, we are all marked by the beast said, on March 9th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

#27–RS==but regardless of the math, its still a further step down the slippery slope to human enslavement right?

# 29 GF said, on March 9th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

Sens. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) want to make a national biometric identification card, a worker ID. The only problem is that they want your fingerprints embedded on the card too. Ironically when countering the American Civil Liberties Union comments about the invasion of privacy Sen. Graham says we all have Social Security cards he just wants to make them tamper proof. Yes, yes, originally Social Security card numbers were to be used ONLY by the Social Security Administration but I have yet to see one job application that doesn’t ask for this personal information. Thanks FDR, thanks for assuring the American people that it would NEVER be used as an identity card.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/y955f8o

# 30 chris said, on March 9th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

Pervasive loss of privacy is a fact of life. Doesn’t the thread photo look like a beer bottle with a condom on it?

# 31 Olo Baggins of Bywater said, on March 9th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

RSweeney thanks for the info. My practical experience is with UHF tags. In your experience, what’s the max range of implanted tags?

Did you get to bring your dog to work to test tags?

# 32 RSweeney said, on March 9th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

#28, no question.

covert reading of RFID is (IMO) one of the most dangerous to liberty technologies out there. It’s just too easy and cheap to subvert.

That’s why EPC standard RFID tags for retail tagging have a non-recoverable “KILL” function on them – to prevent your underwear or your shoes from leaving a tell-tale track.

RFID is by far the easiest and most reliable means to implement “Minority Report” (the movie) style tracking of individual humans. Much easier than retinal or iris scanning.

# 33 RSweeney said, on March 9th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

Olo Baggins, #31, I have worked on the LF, HF, and UHF tags and systems. Was one of the founders of the MIT AutoID Center and a father of EPC along with others in the merry band of co-conspirators in the late 90′s.

Naturally, most efforts were in UHF EPC and also realization of ultra-cheap printed polymer electronic HF tagging for EPC.

No dogs were used in the testing. TIRIS was developed for livestock in Europe where they are pretty serious about meat quality. Max range on the TIRIS that I personally can attest are a little over a meter with legal readers, several meters if you are unconstrained by the law. Wet salty meat is not exactly the best substrate to have around RFID. But… Your wallet is the place to really watch. There is enough standoff space there for some very good antenna gain tricks in UHF.

# 34 Olo Baggins of Bywater said, on March 9th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

RSweeney, those livestock tags hang on ears, is that right? I guess I’m mainly curious what happens when they’re under skin.

fwiw about four years ago I helped develop and write an RFID training program and test prep for CompTIA’s RFID+. Random fact…we get tags that won’t stay dead when killed. I think they come from Alien.

# 35 RSweeney said, on March 9th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

Baggins, the livestock tags in Europe are subcutaneous injection, same as used here for pets.

As for tags that don’t stay killed, as I recall, Alien had a fake kill that was really a “be silent until you get the extra special magic code”. This doesn’t meet the EPC standard for kill. The real kill is irreversible – or at least it was when I left EPC Global and the AutoID Lab in 2005.

# 36 NelsonOH said, on March 9th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

“Britain is a nation of animal lovers, but people have a fundamental right to feel safe on the streets and in their homes.”

Uh, maybe if the Brits had not been disarmed, they wouldn’t need to resort to owning a lethal animal.

Gun Control? -check
Animal Control? -check
People Control? -check

# 37 clancys_daddy said, on March 9th, 2010 at 6:48 pm

Actually my beagle is chipped. The little fart is an escape artist when it comes to getting out of a dog run pen or wireless fenced yard. Twice animal control picked him up and I got a phone call at work that he was loose. I am happy I did it. As far as chipping kids mine are to old and most can be found with a cell phone today.

# 38 GetSmart said, on March 9th, 2010 at 9:31 pm

I guess I’m just going have to finish that steel chain mail shirt and trousers I started a while back. Fortunately, they will accent my tinfoil hat nicely.

# 39 Ah_Yea said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:04 pm

I’ve got mixed feelings on this.

I don’t want anyone to track my whereabouts, yet I use my debit card everywhere I go.

I want my anonymity, yet I want my medical history available instantly when it’s needed most.

Do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks?

Probably.

# 40 OvenMaster said, on March 9th, 2010 at 10:26 pm

There’s a teenager from the UK on a computer forum I’m on, and he was actually bragging about voluntarily getting chipped in the back of his hand last week. He’s telling us he’s looking forward to being able to unlock doors, switch on room lights, start his car, etc. with a wave of his hand.

He never considered being monitored by government agencies until we told him it was possible. He stopped bragging… and stopped posting.

# 41 amodedoma said, on March 10th, 2010 at 2:47 am

Somebody else suggested this could be a move by the banks to reduce credit card fraud. To do this thing, you chip the hand and use a biometric scanner to confirm with the fingerprint. Easier and faster than swiping your credit card and more than enough security for the application. At first it’ll be voluntary, the banks will draw people in with special interest rates etc. Eventually, these things become mandatory and sensors will be everywhere logging and networking our every move.
That’s when I go to the mountains to live in a cave.

# 42 roughbeast said, on March 10th, 2010 at 8:29 am

I agree, the chip looks like a beer bottle w/ condom. Inspired design!

Do you 666 guys ever come off the slippery slope? There’s dry land over here!

# 43 Scooter said, on March 11th, 2010 at 5:47 am

I wouldn’t mind getting chipped. As long as the chip is removable should I decide to do it? And no, it is not possible to track people using the current chips to track people at least now. At some point if entry into any place requires a chip then it could in theory be used to track people by networking the sites together. At that point I would say it is time to remove the chip. As for the mark of the beast argument, in the past the six pointed star and rings used to emboss wax seals on contracts were also called the mark of the beast. I don’t hear anyone complain about those now. There is nothing to indicate that the microchip is anything different.

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