For the record, I have never considered this issue anything more than a distraction. I am beginning to wonder….




  1. Mr. Fusion says:

    #62 I am the asshole for not believing Obama and fellow conspirators who spend enormous sums and effort deflecting requests to see birth certificate when simply letting it be seen ends the controversy?

    Yes, you are the asshole. You and your fellow asshole birthers continue to demand to see his birth certificate. First, YOU do not have the right or authority to “demand” to see anyone’s birth certificate UNLESS it is your own or a dependent’s. The birth certificate HAS BEEN produced and verified.

    Demanding to see the other documents have the same privacy attachment. Whatever his parents did or did not do is none of your business. His school records are NOT part of the public record and you have no right to demand them.

    All published and relevant articles Obama has published is available from the publishers. Ask Columbia and Harvard for copies. If they refuse you, take it up with them.

    If this were Palin or Bush instead of Obama, and Dr. Chiyome Fukino a Republican, the Progressive Press would have a field day pointing out his carefully worded EVASION whether Obama’s Birth Certificate proves he was born in Hawaii

    Projection. This isn’t Palin and Palin wasn’t challenged on where she was born. She was challenged on her intellectual capability. As has been repeatedly demonstrated, she feeds that comment continually.

    He saw Obama’s “original birth cert.” , not his “certified birth certificate.” There is no way the propaganda press would let that pass if it were about Palin, or Bush…

    Fuck Palin. To the best of my knowledge she hasn’t produced a birth certificate either. Nor has she and her claimed parents submitted DNA samples to prove she is who she claims she is.

    Bush was challenged on his National Air Guard attendance. He never did produce the records or a suitable explanation. Soon after being appointed by the Supreme Court the Pentagon absolved Bush of any AWOL crime and declared he had served his duty even though there continued to be no evidence he had and records were missing.

    But I am the asshole for not believing the man who spends enormous sums to hide his birth certificate, when so many question its existence?

    Obama is not spending “enormous” sums of money defending this. Every case has been tossed out on summary judgment. Summary judgment is when one side convinces a judge the other side doesn’t have a case. They are also noted as frivolous cases. If the judge agrees he may award the legal costs to the party asking for the summary judgment. That has happened in most of these cases.

    The costs of these actions are an expense of his PAC. They don’t cost Obama.

    I am not a birther, I admit I don’t know if he was born in Hawaii, or Kenya.

    You are a birther. And an asshole. It wouldn’t make any difference if you were shown the certificate in person, you would still deny it. The State of Hawaii has determined that Obama was born in the United States. THAT is all that matters.

    If his sister had this certificate is also unknown to me…but there sure are lots of hits when you Google it.

    His sister has an Indonesian birth certificate, NOT a Hawaiian certificate. Yes, there are many hits when you google this. That doesn’t mean they are correct. If you bother to notice, which you won’t because you are an asshole, all those sites claiming the sister has a Hawaiian birth certificate are right wing nut birther sites. Their claims are baseless and defy facts.

  2. Mr. Fusion says:

    Asshole

    We should lobby the US Congress impeach the President unless he publishes a certified birth certificate proving he is an American Citizen.

    Sure. Show the American public how dedicated the Republicans are to making the Congress work.

    Congress wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. Read your copy of the Constitution.

  3. Granite1 says:

    Re: “We should lobby the US Congress impeach the President unless he publishes a certified birth certificate proving he is an American Citizen.”

    I disagree with others who commented that this was stupid. It is your right–and I would fight to the death to support it–to lobby Congress for any reason at all. So, if you feel that he has not provided the right birth certificate, go right ahead and lobby.

    But you will not be successful in your lobbying. Why not? Because Obama has already provided a CERTIFIED birth certificate. The Certification of Live Birth is a certified birth certificate. It is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and it is the only one that Hawaii has issued to anyone since 2001. And, in addition to the official birth certificate itself, in Obama’s case the officials in Hawaii (three officials in a Republican governor’s administration) have repeatedly confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “We Americans aren’t assholes, we have a right to know the President we vote for, is an American citizen born here as the constitution requires.’

    Answer: And we have that knowledge because of the official birth certificate of Hawaii and the confirmation of the facts on it by the three officials in the Republican governor’s administration, and there is this witness (who recalls writing home about Obama’s birth because his mother was named Stanley to HER father, who was also named Stanley)
    http://buffalonews.com/incoming/article137495.ece

    To repeat: Governor Abercrombie DID NOT SAY THAT THEY COULD NOT LOCATE THE FILES. Only WND said it. The Republican officials in Hawaii said in a written press release that there was an original birth certificate in Obama’s file (http://kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html)

  4. MikeN says:

    #64 bobbo,
    I am not trying to prove that he was born in Kenya. I am analyzing granite’s case. Parts of it are good, but that part is a weak case. I think you can see that someone who is in Kenya might want to arrange for a US citizenship for their son in the easiest possible way. Of course I haven’t proven anything, I am starting from the premise is it true, and evaluating granite’s case.

  5. show_me_the_paper says:

    First off: the site I quoted IS NOT WND. This has gone BEYOND WND. This is the Daily Mail, about which Wikipedia says: “The Daily Mail is a British, daily middle market tabloid newspaper.”

    This is the online site of a BRITISH newspaper.

    Secondly: This issue is now being raised, not by birthers, not by Republicans, not by opponents of Obama…but by THE GOVERNOR OF HAWAII. That is a reputable source. I have to wonder WHY he is doing this, as most people were willing to let this issue die out. I certainly was. Now I am wondering what the real story IS on Obama, and not just around his birth situation.

    I have to join Chris Matthews…again NOT a birther, not an Obama opponent, not a Republican (presumably)…I WANT TO SEE THAT BIRTH CERTIFICATE NOW.

    I have no objection to any and ALL candidates showing their birth certificates and all their other documentation. To me, that should be one of the prices of running for office, and a revelation of what the candidate’s background and vested interests are. I want REAL transparency, not just some speechifying.

  6. Granite1 says:

    Re: ‘I blame Obama, not the birthers, for the turmoil, he could end it immediately, just release his BC.’

    Answer: He has already published the birth certificate that Hawaii sent to him in 2007, the only birth certificate that Hawaii sends out to anyone. Hawaii has not sent out copies of the original long-form birth certificate since the short-form birth certificate became the official birth certificate in 2001.

  7. show_me_the_paper says:

    To Granite1 #78

    Well, maybe the problem isn’t Obama personally. He can’t be blamed for what did or didn’t happen around his birth. I do have to wonder why the Governor of Hawaii says he can’t find the long form birth certificate. Considering the stink the birthers have made, it IS strange.

  8. Granite1 says:

    Re: “the Governor of Hawaii says he can’t find the long form birth certificate.”

    The governor of Hawaii did not say that he could not find the long form birth certificate. WND (and the Daily Mail too, apparently) have both speculated and said that he cannot find it. Abercrombie never said that he could not find it. In fact, he did not say that he looked or that he even looked into the files himself.

    Not only did he NOT SAY it, but it is not true. The original birth certificate exists in the files and it has been found. It was found by TWO Republican officials in the first of their two confirmations. (The second said that the documents VERIFY that Obama was born in Hawaii). But, since WND is saying that the original may be missing, the key fact at this time is that the original is in the files.

    Here are the actual words of the officials at the time:

    Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.

    “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said.

    So not only did Abercrombie not say that the original is missing, it is not missing. And the official birth certificate plus the two confirmations show that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    AND, much more importantly, there is not a shred of evidence that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii. His Kenyan grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. She said repeatedly in the taped interview that he was born in Hawaii, where his father was studying at the time. AND she said in another interview that he first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.

  9. Mr. Fusion says:

    It wouldn’t matter from where the President was born. Since a birth certificate was ALREADY issued, published, validated, seen personally, acknowledged by John McCain and several others, and been in several Federal courts. Alphie, repeating yourself under different names doesn’t change any fact. You are still an asshole. All that is required is the official in charge of the State records validate a federal Department of State birth certificate to be valid.

  10. Granite1 says:

    Re: “have to join Chris Matthews…again NOT a birther, not an Obama opponent, not a Republican (presumably)…I WANT TO SEE THAT BIRTH CERTIFICATE NOW.”

    Answer: Chris Matthews is wrong about Hawaii law. He thinks that Hawaii can send out the original. He is wrong. Hawaii stopped sending out the original in 2001 when the short-form birth certificate became the official birth certificate. It may require a change in Hawaii law to start sending out the original again.

    It would also take a significant change in Hawaii law for Hawaii to show original because birth certificates currently can only be sent to a limited list of the individual herself and family members. To make the original a public document certainly would require changing the law. But, the original is there, in the file. Abercrombie never said that it was missing.

  11. show_me_the_paper says:

    Nobody (so far) seems to be able to answer the central point I’m raising:

    Why is the GOVERNOR OF HAWAII raising this issue at all? He’s the one who’s giving it any credibility.

  12. Arne Jensen says:

    On January 21st, 2009, his very first day in office, Barack Obama signed Executive Order 13489 banning the release of his birth certificate!

    Interestingly, no link to “January 2009” at Whitehouse.gov http://whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/executive-orders

  13. So what says:

    How many ways can I not give a damn? It runs into the high nine figures, and I didn’t vote for the guy.

  14. dabeeza says:

    Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.
    #81 read with me…

    “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said.

    They have personally seen the record (list of names)the DOH has with Obi’s name on it – same list Aberdufus saw before he gave his b’deep b’deep b’deep answer to the reporter. That makes three people who saw, or knew about a LIST with Obi’s name; no one has seen the BC, although I’ll grant you that some may have touched the LIST. You protest a bit too much…must be something there, I’m thinking.

  15. MikeN says:

    >Why is the GOVERNOR OF HAWAII raising this issue at all?

    It is what Obama wants. Then he can paint Republicans as crazy people obsessed with his birth certificate, saying they believe it’s a fake now matter how obvious it is real. This is how Bush got reelected, in his case getting Democrats to say they believed in the reality of memos that were obviously fake.

  16. gaetano says:

    EXCUSE Me! Those of you Obama lovers that call people THE BIRTHERS better get one thing straight. IT was “Hillary”, thats right,:Hillary”, that started the birther calling,when she was running against him.Now, as far as I am concerned, Obama is hiding something, for a reason. That reason is what people want to know. They do know that when a person tries to cover themselves up, it is not lies that they hide, it is truths that they hide.So, If obama is hiding his birth certificate because it would prove his ineligibility, then a person could understand why he is hiding it. BUT,why all the other stuff like college records,etc. What good would that do unless they were all produced by fraud? Maybe, just maybe Obama never went to college,or maybe, he falsified his school loans under fraud ,or used s/s numbers that were fraud.What ever the reason he hides them,we the birthers or whatever you wish to call us, are smart enough to know, that it will be enough to hurt him politically, and thats enough for me, because I hate him. He has proven that he is a liar,thru and thru. He is a fake, and I know he does not believe in GOD.I don`t think he even believes in our American way of life.So, ok, now, go ahead and start on the racist bashing.If I like people of different colors or not,It is none of your business,and I don`t really care what you think.

  17. Mr. Fusion says:

    #85, Arne,

    Just another lie. Releasing his birth certificate is NOT up to Obama. It is a State of Hawaii matter.

    The right wing nuts never know when to quit making crap up.

  18. Mr. Fusion says:

    Alphie,

    Six posts in a row. each as ignorant as the previous.

    Get a life. Seek medical attention. Take your medication.

  19. MikeN says:

    Perhaps the father on the birth certificate is not as stated in the biography? Or perhaps the date is different? That would explain why she was taking classes just weeks after his birth, in Seattle.

    So Granite, the official story is that Barack’s parents married in February. Yet there are no pictures from this wedding. Should we conclude the wedding never happened?

  20. Granite1 says:

    MikeN said: “Perhaps the father on the birth certificate is not as stated in the biography?”

    Since the facts on the official birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth, were taken from the facts on the long-form birth certificate in the files, the name of the father is the same on the original as it is on the official.

    Re the lack of photos of the wedding not proving a wedding. The lack of photos from Kenya (and taking a trip to Kenya without taking photos is strange) is combined with the lack of official documents from Kenya and the lack of official travel documents from the USA.

    Birthers claim that this is explained by the Kenyan government sealing and hiding Obama’s documents. But this explanation requires faith in the Kenyan government being so efficient that not only was it able to hide every document, but that it has successfully hidden the fact that it was even hiding documents. The latter seems quite a stretch given that divided governments tend to leak, and that complete efficiency in hiding files from such experts as the CIA (which surely would have investigated) plus foreign diplomats, plus journalists and freelance journalists seems extremely improbable.

    In addition to the lack of Kenyan documents, there is the lack of US travel documents. For a child born in Africa to be admitted to the USA there has to be a US travel document for admission to the USA. That would be either a US visa on a foreign passport or the change to his mother’s passport to include him while she was in Kenya–and either document would be easy to find, and no such document has been found.

    For Obama to have been born in any other country than the USA requires the combination of:

    (1) Travel by his mother during late pregnancy (highly unlikely because of the high expense and high risk of such a trip in 1961. A round trip to Kenya for two has been estimated to have cost around $20,000 in 2010 terms, and there was high risk of stillbirth, and of Yellow Fever in Kenya [a Yellow Fever shot itself is risky during pregnancy]);

    (2) Birth outside of Hawaii (also unlikely);

    (3) Birth abroad despite the absence of any foreign documents or photographs showing either that Obama was born in a foreign country or that his mother was in the country at the time (highly unlikely);

    (4) The willingness of the parents to lie about his place of birth (unlikely since it would be a crime to file a false government document, and the lie would be unnecessary since for most purposes naturalizing a foreign-born child would be just as good as his being born in the country);

    (5) Successfully smuggling the child into the USA without a US travel document (extremely unlikely), and;

    (6) Convincing the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii (also extremely unlikely).

    ALL of these six things would be required for there to be a reasonable case that he was born in any other country than the USA. What are the odds of all six of them happening?

    The willingness to believe that Obama was born outside of the USA despite the overwhelming odds against it and despite all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii is why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly all call birthers crazy.

    As for the absence of photos of the wedding not proving that there was a wedding. It is not constitutionally required that the parents of a president be married. You can vote against him in 2012 if you feel that he is illigitimate. However, to most people, an official copy of divorce documents tends to show that the people who were divorced were married at one time.

  21. Mr. Fusion says:

    #99, Granite,

    All the birthers have are questions that they morph into reasons. They have no evidence. It doesn’t matter if there were any photos from the wedding, baby pictures, etc. This was 1960-61. I also don’t know where Obama’s parents were married and that too is irrelevant.

    None of this is about Obama’s parents, grandparents, or stepfather. This is only about Obama being born in Hawaii and issued a birth certificate.

    Any other point or question is irrelevant. IF the birth certificate is fraudulent then the birthers need to produce the evidence. It is not up to you, me, or even Obama to go out of our way to produce any further evidence than what the State of Hawaii has validated as the official birth certificate.

    All conspiracy followers follow the same theme. Just keep asking questions and keep repeating the questions until they appears as a fact. Then demand why they refuse to answer the question.

  22. Granite1 says:

    The long-form birth certificate, the original birth certificate, was found in the records by TWO Republican officials, who stated that they had seen the original BC in the files in Obama’s files

    http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html

    The allegation that Obama’s published birth certificate, the official Certification of Live Birth, was checked out by the McCain campaign and found to be false. The attorney general of Hawaii was a CONSERVATIVE Republican for the last for years, and if he had thought that the BC was forged, he would have prosecuted–and he didn’t. And, in fact, only two guys who would not give their real names claimed that the published BC was forged

    AND, it is the facts on the BC that are critical, and the officials in Hawaii–members of a Republican governor’s administration and the former Republican governor herself have repeatedly confirmed the facts on Obama’s BC, that he was born in Hawaii.

  23. Granite1 says:

    Re: “so why is the headline:

    Hawaii governor claims record of Obama’s birth ‘exists in archives’ but can’t produce the vital document

    Read more: http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BjPcP1VB

    Answer: Both WND and the Daily Mail are wrong, Abercrombie never said that the original birth certificate cannot be found.

    But, what I said was–and what is true–is that Obama has already published the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, which has also been certified by Hawaii, with the official seal in the proper position (one the back) and in addition to the OFFICIAL BC itself, the officials of Hawaii, members of a Republican governor’s administration, have repeatedly confirmed the facts that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

  24. Granite1 says:

    Re: “105Abercrombie never said that the original birth certificate cannot be found. and That begs the question, “why didn’t he find it.”

    Answer: Your statement implies that he looked into the file and found something other than a birth certificate.

    BUT Abercrombie did not say that there was not an original birth certificate in the file or that he found something other than the original birth certificate. Also, he did not say that he could not find what he was looking for.

    It is merely speculation by WND that because Ambercrombie said, hastily, that there was a document in the files that this meant that there was not an original birth certificate in the files. Well, we cannot trust WND normally, and this kind of speculation is simply absurd.

    Indeed, birthers have often said that they would not trust what Abercrombie said, but now that he may have said “document” or “record” and not “birth certificate” they trust that he looked (which we do not know) and that his words “document” or “record” does not mean a birth certificate.

    This is just another example of why Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck all call birthers crazy.

    In fact, there IS an original birth certificate in Obama’s file, and that is what Ambercrombie’s word “document” or “record’ or whatever referred to.

    We KNOW that there is an original birth certificate in the file because of the first of two confirmations by the REPUBLICAN officials in Hawaii, in which they actually used the word “original birth certificate” (and in 1961 Hawaii did not allow a birth certificate from outside of Hawaii to be placed in a Hawaii birth file, or for that matter for a Hawaii birth file to be created for someone who was born outside of Hawaii).

    As for the officials not “producing it,” well of course they couldn’t because Hawaii has not released the original long-form birth certificate to anyone since the short-form, the one that Obama showed, became the official birth certificate in 2001.

  25. ImAmericanNotMuslim says:

    Ay_Yea has a link he’s labeled “Birth Certificate”, and true to form, there is NO birth Certificate, merely a sign-up for his website!

    Facts are facts. The Kenyan Ambassador to the US has stated in an official press release that Obama was born in Kenya.

    The people who call us “Birthers” would have you believe, on faith, that the original paper exists, heel-print and all, yet Gov. Abercrombie, himself a GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL, cannot find it and is not allowed access.

    The qualifications to run for US president are only three. One of them is Natural born citizenship. Obama’s claim that viewing the original certificate, which he says exists, invades his privacy, is crap. It’s the main qualification in many peoples eyes and we have not only the right, but the responsibility to verify his citizenship. He forfeit that particular area of his privacy when he put his name on the ballot. The people have demanded over and over to see it, but the black racists keep saying it’s outrageous.
    So, if you’re an American, demand to see it. If you’re a Black Racist, then just keep on denying!

  26. Granite1 says:

    Birthers have also never explained how a child whom they claim was born in a foreign country could have been admitted into the USA without either a US visa or being entered on his mother’s US passport.

    If either of those took place, then the application for such a document would be easy to find (particularly in Kenya, which is the main place where birthers claim Obama was born), but no such document has been found.

    And Obama’s Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. She said on the taped interview that he was born in Hawaii, where his father was studying, and she said in another interview that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.

    So there is no proof (except for obviously forged “Kenyan birth certificates”) that Obam was born in Kenya.

    On the Hawaii side, in contrast, there is an official birth certificate and the confirmation of THREE Republican officials.

    Notices of Obama’s birth appeared in the Hawaii newspapers about ten days after his birth. They were NOT advertisements. Hawaii newspapers did not accept birth announcements in those days. They only published the notices sent to them by the department of vital records. That department only sent out notices for births IN Hawaii.

    And, Hawaii did not allow “walk in” registrations. It insisted on proof when there was a claim that the child was born outside of a hospital. Proof in the form of a witness statement, such as from the doctor or midwife.

  27. DixT says:

    ON THE RADIO Abercrombie stated that there is a “notation”—handwritten—IN A BOOK “somewhere in the vault” that “shows Obamas date of birth info”. This hardly proves he was born in Hawaii—A WRITTEN NOTATION??? I worked in government here in Colorado—just retired 3 years ago. We have three birth documents”
    1) Original, long-form birth certificate

    2) “Certificate of Live Birth” (which is
    a “certified” copy of your “original” birth in Colorado (it just doesn’t have all the long-form info)

    3) “Certification of Live Birth” (which is given to people NOT born in Colorado, or born in another country. Many Mexicans get one of these, by supplying Dept. of Health with a “certified” copy of their Mexican birth certificate—and the Certification of Live Birth will say “State of Colorado, Certification of Live Birth—IT DOES NOT STATE THAT THE PERSON WAS BORN IN MEXICO.

    In ALL STATES, a Certificate of Live Birth and a Certification of live birth ARE TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE DOCUMENTS.


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