For the record, I have never considered this issue anything more than a distraction. I am beginning to wonder….




  1. Alfred Persson says:

    What some do on an subconscious level, I do more deliberately:

    the president’s sense of identification lies elsewhere, and is in profound ways unlike theirs. He is hard put to sound convincingly like the leader of the nation, because he is, at heart and by instinct, the voice mainly of his ideological class. He is the alien in the White House

    He isn’t “one of us”, we sense that every time he speaks. He is odd, out of place, when he speaks I recall the image of the two eating in a restaurant in “men in black” where inside the body, was the real man.

    His policies benefit others, not America. What he says is optics only, his actions, both legislatively and administratively, consistently manifest one goal, to bankrupt American.

    Regardless what he does, it always costs us more than we can afford, including his vacations overseas and state trips.

    Everything is to spend money as fast as he can, while he can, and stop all business formation here by raising energy and regulatory cost.

    His policy benefits the Chinese far more than it does us.

    That’s why I don’t credit his following BUSH on Afghanistan as some conservatives do. I want out, point one. BUT point two, we can’t afford these foreign engagements…we are living on borrowed money…and THAT is why he follows the BUSH policy…it too is bankrupting us.

    The one motive that can be applied to everything Obama does, which seems inexplicable to others, is the goal of bankrupting the system.

    That’s why I believe he is an alien…that he can’t find a proper birth certificate, is only confirming that fact. His actions speak louder than any paper that can be forged.

  2. Alfred Persson says:

    The one motive that can be applied to everything Obama does, which seems inexplicable to others, is the goal of bankrupting the system.

    That’s why he wants terrorists lawyer-ed up at public expense; housed in the states rather than the much cheaper Gitmo; Trials security in the US would cost billions, while at Gitmo, nothing more than they already spend…

    Only a few black farmers were discriminated against, only a few existed in history…so Obama finds millions to throw money at…

    Billions are spent with no real accounting…it vanished in progressive and subversive front groups…and to keep feeding the addiction of government to waste, fraud and corrution…because it bankrupts the system.

    Everywhere he goes, it costs billions…so he travels lots. Never say Obama didn’t see a billion that he couldn’t spend…because it bankrupts us.

    Obama knows illegals are flooding our welfare…they can’t get a job, his policies stop that…but he lets them in, and fights any attempt at taking them off the public dole…because it bankrupts us.

    The one universal motive that seems to explain every Obama action, is to bankrupt America.

    That is why I consider his birth certificate “optics only,” even if he produces it eventually.

  3. Alfred Persson says:

    Its ingenious, take America down by removing all fiscal restraint. Like providing unlimited heroin to the addict…you know the OD is just a matter of time…

    Obama care is the coup de grâce, all entitlement programs increase exponentially in cost…

  4. gaetano says:

    EXCUSE Me! Those of you Obama lovers that call people THE BIRTHERS better get one thing straight. IT was “Hillary”, thats right,:Hillary”, that started the birther calling,when she was running against him.Now, as far as I am concerned, Obama is hiding something, for a reason. That reason is what people want to know. They do know that when a person tries to cover themselves up, it is not lies that they hide, it is truths that they hide.So, If obama is hiding his birth certificate because it would prove his ineligibility, then a person could understand why he is hiding it. BUT,why all the other stuff like college records,etc. What good would that do unless they were all produced by fraud? Maybe, just maybe Obama never went to college,or maybe, he falsified his school loans under fraud ,or used s/s numbers that were fraud.What ever the reason he hides them,we the birthers or whatever you wish to call us, are smart enough to know, that it will be enough to hurt him politically, and thats enough for me, because I hate him. He has proven that he is a liar,thru and thru. He is a fake, and I know he does not believe in GOD.I don`t think he even believes in our American way of life.So, ok, now, go ahead and start on the racist bashing.If I like people of different colors or not,It is none of your business,and I don`t really care what you think.

  5. Mr. Fusion says:

    #85, Arne,

    Just another lie. Releasing his birth certificate is NOT up to Obama. It is a State of Hawaii matter.

    The right wing nuts never know when to quit making crap up.

  6. Mr. Fusion says:

    Alphie,

    Six posts in a row. each as ignorant as the previous.

    Get a life. Seek medical attention. Take your medication.

  7. MikeN says:

    Perhaps the father on the birth certificate is not as stated in the biography? Or perhaps the date is different? That would explain why she was taking classes just weeks after his birth, in Seattle.

    So Granite, the official story is that Barack’s parents married in February. Yet there are no pictures from this wedding. Should we conclude the wedding never happened?

  8. Granite1 says:

    MikeN said: “Perhaps the father on the birth certificate is not as stated in the biography?”

    Since the facts on the official birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth, were taken from the facts on the long-form birth certificate in the files, the name of the father is the same on the original as it is on the official.

    Re the lack of photos of the wedding not proving a wedding. The lack of photos from Kenya (and taking a trip to Kenya without taking photos is strange) is combined with the lack of official documents from Kenya and the lack of official travel documents from the USA.

    Birthers claim that this is explained by the Kenyan government sealing and hiding Obama’s documents. But this explanation requires faith in the Kenyan government being so efficient that not only was it able to hide every document, but that it has successfully hidden the fact that it was even hiding documents. The latter seems quite a stretch given that divided governments tend to leak, and that complete efficiency in hiding files from such experts as the CIA (which surely would have investigated) plus foreign diplomats, plus journalists and freelance journalists seems extremely improbable.

    In addition to the lack of Kenyan documents, there is the lack of US travel documents. For a child born in Africa to be admitted to the USA there has to be a US travel document for admission to the USA. That would be either a US visa on a foreign passport or the change to his mother’s passport to include him while she was in Kenya–and either document would be easy to find, and no such document has been found.

    For Obama to have been born in any other country than the USA requires the combination of:

    (1) Travel by his mother during late pregnancy (highly unlikely because of the high expense and high risk of such a trip in 1961. A round trip to Kenya for two has been estimated to have cost around $20,000 in 2010 terms, and there was high risk of stillbirth, and of Yellow Fever in Kenya [a Yellow Fever shot itself is risky during pregnancy]);

    (2) Birth outside of Hawaii (also unlikely);

    (3) Birth abroad despite the absence of any foreign documents or photographs showing either that Obama was born in a foreign country or that his mother was in the country at the time (highly unlikely);

    (4) The willingness of the parents to lie about his place of birth (unlikely since it would be a crime to file a false government document, and the lie would be unnecessary since for most purposes naturalizing a foreign-born child would be just as good as his being born in the country);

    (5) Successfully smuggling the child into the USA without a US travel document (extremely unlikely), and;

    (6) Convincing the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii (also extremely unlikely).

    ALL of these six things would be required for there to be a reasonable case that he was born in any other country than the USA. What are the odds of all six of them happening?

    The willingness to believe that Obama was born outside of the USA despite the overwhelming odds against it and despite all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii is why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly all call birthers crazy.

    As for the absence of photos of the wedding not proving that there was a wedding. It is not constitutionally required that the parents of a president be married. You can vote against him in 2012 if you feel that he is illigitimate. However, to most people, an official copy of divorce documents tends to show that the people who were divorced were married at one time.

  9. Alfred Persson says:

    Suppose he isn’t of this world and THAT is why he lacks a BC?

    Just thinking out loud.

    Mr. Fusion…up there in the Canadian wood, when it came from a galaxy far far away, and fused its dna into various orifices…did they mention a BC?

  10. Mr. Fusion says:

    #99, Granite,

    All the birthers have are questions that they morph into reasons. They have no evidence. It doesn’t matter if there were any photos from the wedding, baby pictures, etc. This was 1960-61. I also don’t know where Obama’s parents were married and that too is irrelevant.

    None of this is about Obama’s parents, grandparents, or stepfather. This is only about Obama being born in Hawaii and issued a birth certificate.

    Any other point or question is irrelevant. IF the birth certificate is fraudulent then the birthers need to produce the evidence. It is not up to you, me, or even Obama to go out of our way to produce any further evidence than what the State of Hawaii has validated as the official birth certificate.

    All conspiracy followers follow the same theme. Just keep asking questions and keep repeating the questions until they appears as a fact. Then demand why they refuse to answer the question.

  11. Alfred Persson says:

    #101 Mr Fusion, I apologize for the personal comments, above and every other time, they were uncalled for, I dishonored myself and perhaps offended you. I apologize for the stupidity…

    Also to Bobo if he is reading this.

  12. Alfred Persson says:

    #101 You need to replay the recording, so you can discern my McCullough (not a birther) is now “beginning to wonder.”

    The long form BC wasn’t found in the records, and neither hospital has any record of his birth…= forgery for what he has displayed, or complete incompetence on the part of Hawaii and the hospitals.

    Many have inspected the online version, and have declared it a fake.

  13. Granite1 says:

    The long-form birth certificate, the original birth certificate, was found in the records by TWO Republican officials, who stated that they had seen the original BC in the files in Obama’s files

    http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html

    The allegation that Obama’s published birth certificate, the official Certification of Live Birth, was checked out by the McCain campaign and found to be false. The attorney general of Hawaii was a CONSERVATIVE Republican for the last for years, and if he had thought that the BC was forged, he would have prosecuted–and he didn’t. And, in fact, only two guys who would not give their real names claimed that the published BC was forged

    AND, it is the facts on the BC that are critical, and the officials in Hawaii–members of a Republican governor’s administration and the former Republican governor herself have repeatedly confirmed the facts on Obama’s BC, that he was born in Hawaii.

  14. Granite1 says:

    Re: “so why is the headline:

    Hawaii governor claims record of Obama’s birth ‘exists in archives’ but can’t produce the vital document

    Read more: http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BjPcP1VB

    Answer: Both WND and the Daily Mail are wrong, Abercrombie never said that the original birth certificate cannot be found.

    But, what I said was–and what is true–is that Obama has already published the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, which has also been certified by Hawaii, with the official seal in the proper position (one the back) and in addition to the OFFICIAL BC itself, the officials of Hawaii, members of a Republican governor’s administration, have repeatedly confirmed the facts that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

  15. Alfred Persson says:

    #105Abercrombie never said that the original birth certificate cannot be found.

    That begs the question, “why didn’t he find it.”

    His statement is not confident it will be found, on the contrary, it evaded the issue, trying to misdirect to a notation that someone made.

    He raised the issue, promising to end the controversy, and all he did, was revitalize it.

    Your explanations no longer wash…the two Republicans never produced it…and evidently NOW the Governor cannot find what they said was there.

    Also a weakness in your argument, many Republicans are progressives, they love Big Government with its lobbyists bearing gifts just as much as progressive Democrats do…the protection (from Government) racket is loved by politicians…

    It does not follow these Republicans were 100% accurate in their statement…they could be lying, or just lazy…it does not follow they really care…$$$ being where its at.

  16. Alfred Persson says:

    Re 93-4 Its predicted Obama will take on the deficit Hawks, who prefer spending cuts to tax increases, illogically arguing borrowed money stimulates the economy.

    That’s impossible as Friedman documented, its like scooping water from one end of the tub, and putting less of it (after waste, fraud and corruption steals some of it) back into the tub somewhere else.

  17. Granite1 says:

    Re: “105Abercrombie never said that the original birth certificate cannot be found. and That begs the question, “why didn’t he find it.”

    Answer: Your statement implies that he looked into the file and found something other than a birth certificate.

    BUT Abercrombie did not say that there was not an original birth certificate in the file or that he found something other than the original birth certificate. Also, he did not say that he could not find what he was looking for.

    It is merely speculation by WND that because Ambercrombie said, hastily, that there was a document in the files that this meant that there was not an original birth certificate in the files. Well, we cannot trust WND normally, and this kind of speculation is simply absurd.

    Indeed, birthers have often said that they would not trust what Abercrombie said, but now that he may have said “document” or “record” and not “birth certificate” they trust that he looked (which we do not know) and that his words “document” or “record” does not mean a birth certificate.

    This is just another example of why Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck all call birthers crazy.

    In fact, there IS an original birth certificate in Obama’s file, and that is what Ambercrombie’s word “document” or “record’ or whatever referred to.

    We KNOW that there is an original birth certificate in the file because of the first of two confirmations by the REPUBLICAN officials in Hawaii, in which they actually used the word “original birth certificate” (and in 1961 Hawaii did not allow a birth certificate from outside of Hawaii to be placed in a Hawaii birth file, or for that matter for a Hawaii birth file to be created for someone who was born outside of Hawaii).

    As for the officials not “producing it,” well of course they couldn’t because Hawaii has not released the original long-form birth certificate to anyone since the short-form, the one that Obama showed, became the official birth certificate in 2001.

  18. Granite1 says:

    Continuing:

    Here is the first of the two confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.

    http://kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html

    Notice where it says that there is an original birth certificate filed. Well, in 1961 foreign birth certificates, even those from other states, could not be filed in Hawaii. So the birth certificate in Obama’s files must be a Hawaii birth certificate.

    Here is the second of the two confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.

    http://usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm

    Notice where it says that the document in the files VERIFIES that Obama was born in Hawaii. So, not only is there an official Hawaiian birth certificate in the files, but it says right on it that Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii has never allowed the Department of Health to issue a birth document of any kind that says on it that anyone was born in Hawaii unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii, and that is what the officials in Hawaii have confirmed twice.

    And here is the confirmation by the governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican, that says that Obama was born in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/05/hawaii_gov_lingle_answers_the.html

    It is the first of these three confirmations that we are discussing now, the ORIGINAL birth certificate in Obama’s file.

    You allege that the Republicans may have lied for Obama. Baloney. Sure they would have. They would have run the risk of being prosecuted by the attorney general of Hawaii, a CONSERVATIVE Republican. And, there would have to be a total of four who lied, including the clerk who filled in the form.

    And in addition to the risk of such a lie, what would have been the point? The first of the confirmations was before the 2008 election.

    But, say that that all four of them did lie. Would that prove that Obama was born outside of the USA? No. If George Bush’s birth certificate from Connecticut disappeared, it would not mean that he was born in Canada.

    So, IF all four officials lied (and they didn’t), there would still have to be a convincing story that indicates that birth outside of the USA was reasonably possible. And, the story also has to account for the fact that there is no evidence from a foreign country that he was born there (except for obviously forged “birth certificates).

    Obama’s Kenyan grandmother, by the way, NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. She said repeatedly that Obama was born in Hawaii in the taped interview. And she said in another interview that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.

    For Obama to have been born in any other country than the USA requires the combination of:

    (1) Travel by his mother during late pregnancy (highly unlikely because of the high expense and high risk of such a trip in 1961. A round trip to Kenya for two has been estimated to have cost around $20,000 in 2010 terms, and there was high risk of stillbirth, and of Yellow Fever in Kenya [a Yellow Fever shot itself is risky during pregnancy]);

    (2) Birth outside of Hawaii (also unlikely);

    (3) Birth abroad despite the absence of any foreign documents or photographs showing either that Obama was born in a foreign country or that his mother was in the country at the time (highly unlikely);

    (4) The willingness of the parents to lie about his place of birth (unlikely since it would be a crime to file a false government document, and the lie would be unnecessary since for most purposes naturalizing a foreign-born child would be just as good as his being born in the country);

    (5) Successfully smuggling the child into the USA without a US travel document (extremely unlikely), and;

    (6) Convincing the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii (also extremely unlikely. There are good reports that Hawaii demanded the written statements of doctors or midwives whenever birth outside of a hospital was claimed.).

    ALL of these six things would be required for there to be a reasonable case that he was born in any other country than the USA. What are the odds of all six of them happening?

    The willingness to believe that Obama was born outside of the USA despite the overwhelming odds against it and despite all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii is why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly all call birthers crazy.

  19. ImAmericanNotMuslim says:

    Ay_Yea has a link he’s labeled “Birth Certificate”, and true to form, there is NO birth Certificate, merely a sign-up for his website!

    Facts are facts. The Kenyan Ambassador to the US has stated in an official press release that Obama was born in Kenya.

    The people who call us “Birthers” would have you believe, on faith, that the original paper exists, heel-print and all, yet Gov. Abercrombie, himself a GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL, cannot find it and is not allowed access.

    The qualifications to run for US president are only three. One of them is Natural born citizenship. Obama’s claim that viewing the original certificate, which he says exists, invades his privacy, is crap. It’s the main qualification in many peoples eyes and we have not only the right, but the responsibility to verify his citizenship. He forfeit that particular area of his privacy when he put his name on the ballot. The people have demanded over and over to see it, but the black racists keep saying it’s outrageous.
    So, if you’re an American, demand to see it. If you’re a Black Racist, then just keep on denying!

  20. Granite1 says:

    Birthers have also never explained how a child whom they claim was born in a foreign country could have been admitted into the USA without either a US visa or being entered on his mother’s US passport.

    If either of those took place, then the application for such a document would be easy to find (particularly in Kenya, which is the main place where birthers claim Obama was born), but no such document has been found.

    And Obama’s Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. She said on the taped interview that he was born in Hawaii, where his father was studying, and she said in another interview that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.

    So there is no proof (except for obviously forged “Kenyan birth certificates”) that Obam was born in Kenya.

    On the Hawaii side, in contrast, there is an official birth certificate and the confirmation of THREE Republican officials.

    Notices of Obama’s birth appeared in the Hawaii newspapers about ten days after his birth. They were NOT advertisements. Hawaii newspapers did not accept birth announcements in those days. They only published the notices sent to them by the department of vital records. That department only sent out notices for births IN Hawaii.

    And, Hawaii did not allow “walk in” registrations. It insisted on proof when there was a claim that the child was born outside of a hospital. Proof in the form of a witness statement, such as from the doctor or midwife.

  21. DixT says:

    ON THE RADIO Abercrombie stated that there is a “notation”—handwritten—IN A BOOK “somewhere in the vault” that “shows Obamas date of birth info”. This hardly proves he was born in Hawaii—A WRITTEN NOTATION??? I worked in government here in Colorado—just retired 3 years ago. We have three birth documents”
    1) Original, long-form birth certificate

    2) “Certificate of Live Birth” (which is
    a “certified” copy of your “original” birth in Colorado (it just doesn’t have all the long-form info)

    3) “Certification of Live Birth” (which is given to people NOT born in Colorado, or born in another country. Many Mexicans get one of these, by supplying Dept. of Health with a “certified” copy of their Mexican birth certificate—and the Certification of Live Birth will say “State of Colorado, Certification of Live Birth—IT DOES NOT STATE THAT THE PERSON WAS BORN IN MEXICO.

    In ALL STATES, a Certificate of Live Birth and a Certification of live birth ARE TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE DOCUMENTS.


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