1. Greg says:

    This is crazy, any dose above background poses a risk. We in the dental industry will continue to diagnose the dose, and only dose someone when the need for diagnosis outweighs the harm from the radiation.

    • bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

      Thats BS Greg. All you dentoids dose whenever “necessary” and whenever not necessary because you can BILL for it.

      I don’t know if these wasteful and injurious practices are part of the recent survey showing that 34% of healthcare expenditures are fraud, but when I get a full mouth x-ray before allowed to have my teeth cleaned……it ought to be.

      We need to get the “for profit” motive out of healthcare.

      F*ck me sideways>>>>>its obvious.

      Same as always……………………………………………………..
      bobbo

      • McCullough says:

        This is a huge pet peeve of mine . I have to agree with bobbo, I fired my dentist 2 years ago because he was ordering X-Rays every time I came in for a cleaning…a cleaning. I asked him just to clean my teeth and he refused. Gave me the speech that dental X-Rays are harmless blah blah blah. Basically it was his way or the highway, because his “reputation” was at stake. Fucker should go to work for TSA.

        I fired his ass. Having said that, maybe Greg is one of the good guys.

        BTW a recent study suggests otherwise.

        http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/04/10/dental-x-rays-may-be-linked-to-benign-brain-tumors

    • Sam says:

      Thanks Greg for representing the responsible dentists in the world. I see my dentist every six months for cleaning and a checkup. My teeth are in great shape and we know when something changes thus requiring a better look. People who blast the honest just because they got ripped off are small minded, narrow focused, and probably have bad teeth to go along with their fire breath.

  2. sargasso_c says:

    A single, short term exposure to a low level of IR is one thing, a prolonged exposure to a low level of IR is quite another. Accumulative exposure is used as a measure in the nuclear industry, science and medical industry.

  3. dadeo says:

    Pump a little energy into the narrator…zzz

  4. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    If Greg were a competent dentoid, he would explain the risks and benefits and allow the patient to make the choice.

    But he’s not.

    Greg is a shill for BS fascists that rob us blind while telling us its for our own good when its a total scam.

    I could tell you stories…………

    Same as it always is…………………………………………………………….
    bobbo

  5. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    I will tell you about my last visit to the dentoids.

    I have caps put in 20 years ago by the local dentists. Fine and Dandy.

    Moved. Went to new dentist 5 years ago and had two new caps put in. 3 Years later within two weeks both of them failed–rotted out by new decay underneath them.

    NO WAY can I prove that this wasn’t an unfortunate coincidence rather than outright FRAUD of the dentist setting up his future work. ((Actually a female from India I think.)) But, the new estimate, after a full mouth x-ray, to recap these two teeth, and fill another cavity is $18,000.

    I’d even pay that the second time if I could get a guarantee I wouldn’t be ripped off again. But I can’t, so I won’t and now I’m in my second year of tender tooth roots. Just waiting to go overseas to have the teeth pulled.

    Starting to hurt more and more each day. I hope the abcess doesn’t cause a heart attack as I have heard.

    Yes–the great American Healthcare System==as corrupt as everything else we do.

    I have even more stories. Orthodentist Fraud turned over to the Consumer Protection Agency and Board of Dentistry. He got off by blaming his office nurse. Pure unadulterated BS.

    F*ck me sidewise>>>>>>>>>>It obvious………………………….
    bobbo

    • McCullough says:

      18k for what you describe is obviously a California rip-off. I can assure you no one in the fly over states pays a tenth of that. If I were you I would run away as fast as possible.

      Now I see why you like Obama care so much.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Well, Thanks McC==but there is no Obama care as yet and so far some win like uninsured kiddies with generous parents, and folks with pre-existing conditions, but in the main its forced commerce that favors the f*ctarded insurnace industry WHICH IS NOT HEALTHCARE!!!!!

        I favor socialized government run Healthcare because we have one example of the capitalist system here in USA which is an abject failure, and 38examples of socialized medicine working in Europe and elsewhere in the world.

        Free Market: requires a knowing buyer and seller free to enter or leave a transaction and seek other providers. That does not describe healthcare. Its a regulated monopoly already for the interest of parasite paper pushers and medical professionals of unequal bargaining power competing for know nothing consumers.

        It’s f*cking Obvious>>>>>>>>>>and we are all screwed sideways………..
        bobbo

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        I keep forgetting to comment that that is $18,000 AFTER the discounts for being part of a “broad plan of comprehensive coverage.” And its two years old now.

        F*ck me sideways>>>>>>>>>>>Its obvious………
        I’m rifting on traxx
        bobbo

  6. jasontheodd says:

    Have a buddy who is a reservist pilot, he feels he gets enough radiation in his job so he flat out refuses dental x-rays. I called him and asked him how he found a dentist that would still treat him after I watched this posted video, and he said he went through dozens of dentists until he found one who uses dental ultrasonography…at a cost of two hundred dollars a pop, but its only every other year. He said to find a dentist close to an airport, they get more pilots as patients and are more radiation concerned. He has me convinced.

  7. David says:

    bobbo: Call Dr. Noot of Pleasant Grove, Utah. He could help you or might be able to recommend someone who uses similar methods that is closer to where you are. With $18k at stake, traveling isn’t a bad option either.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Well thanks David. I don’t know what exact issue you are responding to. Sure, there are honest and good dentists out there. My caps and bridge from decades ago are solid as a rock.

      Dentoids today too often think they are supposed to be millionaires by 3rd year out of graduation. They think of themselves as “doctors” with the same level of self-serving BS.

      Universal Payer/Single Payer/Medicare for All would make most of this go away. Then we would only have waiting lines===except without the built in Fraud motives, there would be Dental Hygenists ushered in to do the boring work.

      FOR PROFIT MEDICINE is a FRAUD. There is no “free market” as the theory of capitalism requires. It is rather a social good…..oops, I’m ranting again.

      Ha, ha. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Its obvious………
      bobbo.

      • David says:

        He uses techniques developed in Japan to create restorations that last a long, long time.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          What I’m expecting to happen is for Jenny McCarthy (or whomever it was) to prechew my food and spit it into my face.

          How bad my physcial self can get before there is an actual consequence besides pain is an ongoing experiment here.

          Only fair, given my life of near perfect health. I’ve only had a scratchy throat once in the past 15 years and only mild 2-day colds before that.

          Life is sweet.

          >>>>>>>>>I don’t know how traxxx does it………….
          bobbo

      • pedro says:

        No, it won’t Dumbbo. What it will do is to lower the quality of care.

        But for you, I hope you get what you deserve.

  8. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    When I used to attend dentoids, this x-ray exposure was of concern to me.

    I read up on the issue and I think this is a fair summary: a full mouth series exposes you to as much x-rays as flying cross country at 38,000 feet==aka not much.

    but if the machine is not maintained, you can get a whole lot more. Enough to be “of concern.” I always think of James Bond on Goldfingers laser table, not that thats relevant.

    So, as a pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist steeped in critical thinking: I accept x-rays when they are rationally related to the procedure at hand, and reject them otherwise. Little bitches scream like I am robbing them, but they all have come around. Or they did, I’m speaking historically after all.

    It would be nice if this Country had any consumer protection at all. Always…..”looking forward” I supposed.

    F*ck me sideways>>>>>>>>>Its Obvious…………………..
    As is why isn’t the draft pre submit area WYSIWYG? Does everything on this forum have to be “obvious?” What is it, run by dentists?
    bobbo

  9. deowll says:

    Other than the obvious fact that the damage done by many harmful substances is non linear I’m not sure what these people hope to prove.

    Each type of radiation is going to cause somewhat different results at different exposure levels on different people for a host of different reasons.

    You still need to limit how much and what kinds of radiation you are exposed to.

  10. What? says:

    That is a great video.

    I imagine that Bremsstrahlung may be produced by dense materials in the body (bone), increasing the total dose received from an IR source.

    Of course, in vitro could have a small surface density, small depth, and small probability of accumulated damage. Therefore underestimating the dose response.

    This seems relevant to the Dental x-rays mentioned above, subject to a review by an “expert”.

    I much prefer the pissed off Boboo.

  11. Peppeddu says:

    Perhaps lower doses of radiations are not harmful (which is different than “healthy”), but the problem is another.

    Exposure to radiations and ingesting contaminated particles are two different things.

    Cs 137 once is in your body, it doesn’t go away, it stays there and accumulates over the years.
    It’s presence (in the food you eat) can only be checked with a gamma spectrometer. A Geiger counter won’t detect anything.
    It’s effects become visible decades later in the form of cancer, and at that point who’s to blame for it?

    The safest route is the lowest common denominator of all studies, that is: No Radiations = No Danger

  12. pedro says:

    I think I’ll believe it. If homosexuality is not a personality disorder then it’s only logical that the radiation research has also been flawed.

  13. Glenn E. says:

    So rather than spending that $170 Million to improve Nuke plant safety, or lower the cost of power generated. They spent it to buy off their academic critics. So when the going gets tough, throw a sh*t load of cash at the “experts”, to play down the dangers.

    BTW, if the nuclear industry can so easily corrupt academia with its wealth. Then why isn’t equally possible that some other energy concern isn’t doing the same corrupting, to promote the hokie Global Warming – Climate Change “consensus” of experts? Many who aren’t even scientists or climate experts. But they’re counted as such, by the UN committee. They sign off on the “findings” and get their money.

  14. Glenn E. says:

    They should do a REAL TEST, like seeing how many rich bastards running the nuclear industry, are willing to live in close vicinity to a nuclear power plant? I think we can judge by their degree of reluctance to do so, just how safe low doses of radiation really are.

  15. Greg says:

    Jeeez did I stir up a C#$ap storm…

    Many of your concerns are valid, there are a ton of x-rays taken that aren’t necessary, but having NO radiographic screening also puts patients at risk. We need a baseline to determine change. I had a poor guy in today that appeared healthy except for a mild ache. One x-ray helped me to find 3 abscessed teeth.

    I think what you’re all worried about is judgement, when it comes to teeth I promise you my judgement is better than yours, your insurance company, your lawyers and 70% of what you read online. We are also supposed to use that judgement in your favor and not our own. I’m sorry we’re losing your trust. For myself and my colleagues, I apologize and can only fight to regain that trust one patient at a time.

    Bobbo, your problem is acid, and it doesn’t matter what your eating, it’s the frequency your eating it at. You could have dry mouth due to medication, or be diabetic. Those things will lead to massive decay issues no matter how much you brush and floss. You have to buffer the acid and you need more saliva, and better saliva to combat it. Chew xylitol gum, don’t nibble or sip stuff throughout the day, brush with baking soda, get the biofilms off your teeth in an effort to neutralize the PH or your dental problems will never go away. I hope you find a dentist that can help you come up with a plan to combat that crappy dental cycle you’re in. I see it a lot.

    Cheers, I need a drink

    Greg the dental shill….

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Greg–diagnosing at a distance? I suppose you think you can do that right now even better than me?

      Ha, ha.—does make me smile. The egotism of expertise and never being challenged. …… Course, its not a choice of either/or. Either an expert/or a shill. Of course, you are both, each bias supporting the other. So intertwined, you can’t separate them even when you ((your good humor not withstanding)) are on the spot for it.

      Acid? How come the other caps and the bridge I have from 30 years earlier haven’t succumbed to this acid? Maybe the cement has changed??

      Could be but with my history of fraud in the industry of dentistry, I’m not of the mind to grant the maybe. If it was a change in cements, I’d think everyone’s crowns and caps would be failing. Haven’t read about that.

      But because you are an expert, what other symptoms would I have from an acidic mouth, or is it diet??

      Experts are great at flim flamming within their area of expertise. Why does such flim flammiing always come down in support of their profession?

      Say Greg–do you do any mental preparation from time to time to arm yourself against the financial conflict of interest to “over service” your patients?

      Have you EVER explained the pro’s and con’s of what you need to give the best care vs what is cheaper but puts the patient at risk and let them decide or AS HERE AND NOW===do you play the big daddy, feather your own nest, and claim it is what is best for your victims?

      But, odds are===you are simply lying. Do you ever provide your patients with a real choice or do you always make it for them “in the name of the Father, Son…oops==in the name of Good Medicine?”

      Another story: I had gingivitus and slightly loose teeth and my dentist was treating it with deep cleaning. Then my employer switched us to an HMO plan. My new dentist wanted to pull the teeth as they were too far gone. His partner looked and said “Oh, I think we can save them….” I went with the partner.

      Now, I still have those loose teeth–the partner was probably new to HMO care and still practicing for profit medicine—hee, hee.

      Now–with the need for two new replacement caps, BEFORE I COULD EVEN ASK, the theif with a dental degree said: “and I’m not going to pull them because that wouldn’t be good practice.”

      Yes—an expert who knows 3 years of training and study more than me about health and dentistry but is also a shill for lining her own pockets.

      You know what is also subject to analytical skills, judgment, and practice? ==== Yep, identification of FRAUD==and I see it all over your biased position.

      ……….course, I already said==it could be a coincidence.

      F*ck me sideways, but lower the seat please.>>>>>>Its obvious………………..

      Say doc==post again and I’ll tell another story.

      bobbo

  16. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Everything I know about acid mouth and dry mouth I just read here:

    http://revivepersonalproducts.com/wellness-healthy-mouth?prmArticleID=71

    Amusingly, my diet avoids every identified food group. Fruit wise, I eat apples and bananas. Liquid wise, I drink Red Wine, beer, coffee and milk.

    As to dry mouth, I think I may naturally create a bit too much saliva. How can anyone know what is “normal” but my gut tells me thats not an issue.

    I’m not “bragging” when I say I am about a perfect specimen of a human being==I am “liberally” thankful for this blessing. Knowing good health, I wish it for everyone else. I know from the occasional sport injury, or ingrown toenail ((HAH!!!—yes, ingrown toenail==Oh, the horror)) how bad health affects everything else. If you don’t have it genetically, you have to get it from experts. I’m happy to pay for it even while never needing it myself. Except for dental. Still don’t use glasses.

    Amen, and let’s double the illusions.

  17. NICKtheRAT says:

    convenient lies?

  18. NewfornatSux says:

    At $18000, you can travel to another country and still save money. Or perhaps this Indian doctor was giving you a price in rupees? Or maybe Bobbo is only going to dentists who are ideological fellow travelers, causing higher prices a la Whole Foods?

    Seriously, at that price, you could get implants for all of your teeth.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Yeah, I’m starting to think that. Maybe go get another estimate.

      What I’d like is: just fill the cavity and forget about caps and making it pretty. I’d just like to chew.

      Maybe I accepted the very high estimate because I was already thinking about medical tourism.

      Always a mix of things.

  19. NewfornatSux says:

    Just pay the $18000. I’m wondering if they diagnosed something else entirely, and you weren’t paying attention because of the pain in your teeth.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Yeah, since I’ve been thinking about it, I think I “presented” with a complaint about two teeth that needed recapping and after the full mouth x-rays I was given an estimate for the two teeth and some other things as well all that “needed to be done as part of my professional standards.”

      Here’s another story ((I do have more)) you can tell you are being chiseled when you have an appointment for a teeth cleaning and rather than the 20-30 procedure with a dental hygenists who does nothing else and afterwards your teeth are clean and slippery for a couple of weeks, you get a dentist who does it in 90 seconds and your teeth are back to normal by the end of the day.

      How to tell an asswipe: I need to charge you more because I know more than you do.

      Ring any bells?………..Greg?

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        20-30 MINUTE procedure….

  20. NewfornatSux says:

    Ann Coulter reported this when the reactor blew up in Japan.

  21. General Tostada says:

    I’ve noticed that people tend to be wary of electricity, I think it’s because it’s an invisible phenomenon that we weren’t evolved to experience. I suspect the fear of nuclear radiation is similar to that…maybe even more so. Seems like it all comes down to a crap shoot of intricate probabilities. How can anyone figure out what the true risk is? A hard thing to nail down if there ever was one, such that it depends on such numerous variable conditions at a miniscule scale.

    As I understand it, alpha particles (such as those used in smoke detectors, say) have a very short emission range, and aren’t much of a hazard in everyday life…as long as you don’t ingest the substance that emits them. But if you do, you greatly increase chances of them damaging nearby tissue in the much denser biological environment thereof.

    Ah, but what can we do, then? Shall we do our best to try to tame the Energy of Creation? (probably a long and hazardous trial-and-error journey with no assurance of success), or just give it up, because it’s just too strange and terrifying.

    Or end up living in a grass hut with just a solar panel to keep your clock running (…only on sunny days, though).

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      People are wary of electricity ONLY BECAUSE we have all stuck a screwdriver into a light socket.

      There is nothing invisible or unknowable about it.

      • General Tostada says:

        My own mother was once concerned that the electricity ‘coming out’ of the house AC sockets might itself be radioactive (we had a summer cottage not far from a nuke power plant). I did my best to explain how that couldn’t happen, but I don’t think she believed me.

        • Pete says:

          Yeah, I had to cover all my outlets after I got sick from all the watt- dust all over the floors. Kept tripping over those dratted amps, too.

  22. nunyac says:

    My experience is that Dentists and their Radiation Techs, usually can not answer the question “What is the magnitude of the radiation dose that I will receive as a result of this x-ray procedure?” My response is always to tell them that when I think that I have a dental prob. that justifies the UNSPECIFIED RISK that they propose, I will consider taking the risk. Until then, NO THANKS.
    Might be a good idea to settle this issue while making the phone call to set up your appointment if you think that your BLIND ACCEPTANCE will be required as a condition of ANY dental service.

  23. cgp says:

    juicy bits at
    5:06 LNT could lead to overestimation of cancer risk
    5:20 an appeal to public policy activism
    5:30 whether or not this is true, leaping from petri dish to policy is just bad science.

    So how did we get to the current LNT position?

    Blatant greenie deindustrialization propaganda,
    thanks for exposing.

  24. bobbo, are we Men of Science, or Devo says:

    http://kwqc.com/story/18087690/energy-drinks-can-permanently-damage-teeth-after-only-5-days

    The drinks should be labeled.