Given the dissatisfaction with Obama in the country, why does Ryan and others mentioned in the article think they have to lie to win? Shouldn’t telling the truth be enough?

Laying out the first plans for his party’s presidential ticket, GOP vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan took some factual shortcuts Wednesday night when he attacked President Barack Obama’s policies on Medicare, the economic stimulus and the budget deficit.

  1. jbenson2 says:

    Food for thought: If Obama is re-elected, just think of the mess he will inherit.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Say BJ–when the Bush Team as follow on to the triangulating clinton Era CRASHED THE ECONOMY==how many years did you think it would take to correct?

      Yes–the Mess that will continue in 2013 is simply the carry forward of the Mess created by Bush/Clinton.

      If you want the mess to continue to be cleaned up, you vote Obama. If the want a doubling down on everything that created this mess==vote for Romney.


      Easy to see.

  2. Auntie Diatribe says:

    Please folks. Keep your comments “pithy”.

    My middle finger hurts from excess mouse wheel scrolling (and giving the finger to some of these postings).

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Short comment but irrelevant. Name the offending post, why it offends, and what would have made it better.

      Otherwise, while short, you are still a waste of space.

      • John says:

        Why are you personally attacking this person? You asked for an offensive post, you just made one. Argue ideas, don’t devolve into name calling.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          John, evidently not understand the gravity well of an uncensored forum is all about says:
          8/30/2012 at 2:25 pm

          Why are you personally attacking this person? /// 1. Because SHE gave me the finger? 2. Because her post was too generic and vague so I showed how it could be made better. 3. Its always potentiallyl informing to have a looking glass held up before yourself. 4. More on request?

          You asked for an offensive post, /// where? copy and paste please or correct your type, or your brain fart

          you just made one. /// Offense in the defense of cogent argument is no vice.

          Argue ideas, //// I do always–most pithly in the careful selection of names to call people. How can you miss that?

          don’t devolve into name calling. /// F*ck You. There!–No names.

          • John says:

            Wow, I am impressed. Are you one of those professional trolls like they talked about on The Newsroom a few weeks back?

          • John says:

            And for what it’s worth I could have made the same reply before to Auntie Diatrabe. Telling everyone you’d like to give them the finger is no better than calling someone a waste of space. That does not make either right though.

          • NewformatSux says:

            Are you one of those professional critics paid to watch The NewsRoom?

          • John says:

            No I just enjoy the show. I don’t agree with everything they have to say but I respect the fact that the writers and producers are trying to make a difference. Very few people are these days.

            You don’t like it? What are your thoughts on The Newsroom?

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          Ha, ha. Yes==RESPONDING to trash is very different than initiating trash. Its called: “The Rule of Equal Dignity” should you ever decide to replace that doily with some hand made chain mail.

  3. Zealots to the left of me, zealots to the right of me says:

    I think I am going to puke.

  4. John says:

    Shouldn’t the state of our Country and economy be enough in itself? I heard Obama say when he campaigned in 2008 that give him 4 years and if things are not better he would not expect another 4? I would say 4 years is generous to prove you can do a job. Most private sector jobs give you 90 days to prove yourself.
    Why is it no matter Democrat or Republican can we expect that 4 bad unproductive years deserves 4 more?

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Because Obama was handed a 10 year job.

      Its math.

      • Zealots to the left of me, zealots to the right of me says:

        4 years and not even baby steps in the right direction. What is his plan for the economy? I have yet to hear one so I am assuming more of the same.

        Great Plan….your fired.

        • John says:

          Here is his plan for the economy. Please note that I am not arguing for or against it here, I am no economist. But you said you have not heard of his plan. It’s published on his campaign website.

          • Zealots to the left of me, zealots to the right of me says:

            Looked great! Looked great in 2008 as well.

            So WTF?

          • John says:

            That’s fair. You just suggested no plan exists which is not really the case.

          • Zealots to the left of me, zealots to the right of me says:

            Sorry, I thought when a plan didn’t work out, after say, 4 years, you might want to try something different, not cut and paste your old plan onto your new website.

            My bad.

          • tcc3 says:

            “not cut and paste your old plan onto your new website”

            The “old plan” like tax cuts, gutting regulation, vilifying teachers, destroying social programs, and feathering the nest of the mil/ind complex?

            Romney’s ideas aren’t exactly bold and new either. Even when you can pin them down.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          The steps taken were: TARP, then Stimulus, then Obamacare ((THE POINT OF WHICH…is to save money which everybody seems to agree it will at least to the tune of 716 Billion?)) Ending the War in Iraq, Not starting Wars in Egypt and Syria ((Why he doubled down in Afghanistan is a Mystery and a Great Shame), Auto Bailout===LOTS OF STEPS WERE/ARE being taken.

          You can disagree with what was done but something “else” is going on to characterize it the way you have. Momentary lapse of reason?

          • Zealots to the left of me, zealots to the right of me says:

            Stimulus = more debt

            Obamacare = everybody agrees? Wow.

            Iraq = Contractors out yet?

            Egypt and Syria = I thought we were backing Al-Queda Freedom Fighters?
            You know those pesky guys who blowed up NYC. Oh and you failed to mention Libya, how’d that Sharia Law thing work out?

            Afghanistan – Opium protection. Gotta fund that other shit.

            Auto Bailout = huh, I thought they lost something like 36 Billion in a quarter, I could be wrong. Too big to fail, whatever. Seems like a bad idea to pay to relocate to China.

            Sorry, but the pink slips in the mail.

          • John says:

            The bailouts were before Obama.

        • McCullough says:

          GM bailout is owned by Obama.

          • John says:

            The GM bailout was passed by congress on October 3, 2008. Barack Obama was sworn in to office on January 20, 2009.

            How is the GM bailout owned by Barack Obama?

          • McCullough says:

            Simply because he is taking credit for it, not sure why however. If he was smart, he’d pin this one on W.

          • John says:

            How is Barack Obama taking credit for the bailout of General Motors?

          • McCullough says:

            Geez Really?

            “At a Colorado pep rally, President Obama praised his GM bailout as an example for American industry to follow.

            “The American automobile industry has come roaring back…So now I want to say what we did with the auto industry, we can do it in manufacturing across America. Let’s make sure advanced, high-tech manufacturing jobs take root here, not in China. And that means …..

            blah blah blah… Notice where it says HIS Bailout. He owns it.


            Google, OK?

          • John says:

            Thanks for the link, that is interesting.

            When he says “we” in this video I kind of feel like he is talking about we as a nation rather than himself alone. Do you not get that impression? I do get where you are coming from but I think you may be misinterpreting his meaning.

          • John says:

            By video I meant quote.

    • Dave says:

      I find it ironic that Romney would trot out the “Are you better off than you were 4 years ago” adage to a crowd where I would venture that everyone there was better off than 4 years ago.

  5. Anonymous says:

    I’m getting tired of you “holly rollers” and liberals always telling people how it should be and then never practice it yourself. You always use half-truths or half-lies to support your arguments. And whenever you start quoting scripture, you tell all lies!

    There are a few of you who are actually convinced that whatever some minister, preacher, pope or President tells you is fact. You refuse to think for yourself or maybe you don’t know how to think. You close your minds and refuse to look at facts unless those facts are told to you by someone wearing a funny looking collar, robe, hat or business suit.

    So when I see a story claiming that facts are somewhat irrelevant then it’s obvious to me that the story is either a joke in which an attempt at condescending humor may be at play, or the reporter is so seriously deranged or one sided that it’s actually an attempt to get other -mindless- people to consider what he/she is saying as fact. You might even say “uneducated” people too. But I “believe” this story is a joke that many of you still haven’t realized.

    Just look at the facts and maybe you can realize what’s really wrong – not just what someone says is wrong:

    1.) America is not as competitive in the world as it once was. The economy is in the tank and the very life blood of our society – oil – has not got any less expensive since Obama took office. In fact, government involvement is more prevalent in American business and American’s lives now more than ever. So perhaps, you’d care to examine why that is.

    2.) Under Obama’s administration, the government has out spent nearly every previous modern administration – combined! Our government is now heading towards an economic collapse at breakneck speeds whereas before we might have just been walking towards it. And in that realization you might also like to remember that those bailouts were not approved by most Republicans either. (Did any of that economic injection help you at all? Care to guess what you’re taxes will be after the election?!)

    3.) Obama has not followed through on any of his previous campaign promises except one: he “changed” the government! In fact, his biggest contribution was to implement a new health care system which perverts the very Constitution. He did not help develop jobs or reduce government involvement – he simply made it all bigger! And like it or not, someone still has to pay for these “changes” too. Just who do you think that will be?

    4.) Obama has never been up front with the American people on just who he is or who he has associated himself with. It is a know fact that Obama allowed himself to side with known socialist party members (by their own admission), murdering liberal activists, and religious kooks and may have subverted the very laws he is now sworn to defend. Care to show us your college transcripts Mr. President? Care to explain how you were once known as Barry Soetoro and then may have lied to the Illinois Bar about never having used another name? (I won’t even go into something as trivial as legal birth certificates since I’d love to see California’s ex “governator” make a run for office.)

    If you care to “believe” what someone tells you then go ahead. Just don’t use those beliefs as some kind of fact. You may want to listen to what your government says but then you might want to then try and pay attention to what it does! Because facts speak for themselves.

    But if none of this sunk in then try to forget politics for the moment and ask yourself this: Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago? A mindless idiot can figure this one out, but not if he/she allows “belief” to enter into it.

    • msbpodcast says:

      A mindless idiot

      An ideal voter to a politician.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Nice extended conceit that Obama is generically wrong and responsible for the mess he inherited: “He made it worse….”

      All economic experts agree the USA recovery has been “not as weak” as Europe who attempted to cut back on expenses while USA/Bush/Obama made a weak attempt at a Keynesian recovery. Most, but not all economists think the TARP and Stimulus should have been bigger.

      What does your Magic Eight Ball tell us should have been done===then or now. If you answer is more tax breaks for the already Too Rich and cuts to the social safety net===then you are a turd sucking fool.==Unless you are part of the 1%, then I would say==get your jackboot off my throat.

  6. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Zealots ad naseum comes out of his shell saying:
    8/30/2012 at 2:53 pm

    Stimulus = more debt /// Correct. Keynesian theory show to be more helpful than a cut back.

    Obamacare = everybody agrees? Wow. /// Agrees with the 716 Billion number. Haven’t seen a comment anywhere that disagrees. Do you—or have you conflated agreement with this one number to all the other issues? Can you “think straight?”

    Iraq = Contractors out yet? /// No. You only make my point though.

    Egypt and Syria = I thought we were backing Al-Queda Freedom Fighters? /// Words. No armed invasion/support like McSame is urging in his brain dead Neo-Con fashion.

    You know those pesky guys who blowed up NYC. Oh and you failed to mention Libya, how’d that Sharia Law thing work out? /// This is relevant to any raised issue how?

    Afghanistan – Opium protection. Gotta fund that other shit. /// I disagree. Obama sadly was not the “anti war” candidate that was too easy to assume he was.

    Auto Bailout = huh, I thought they lost something like 36 Billion in a quarter, I could be wrong. Too big to fail, whatever. Seems like a bad idea to pay to relocate to China. /// Jumbled mind shit. Make a point==learn to edit.

    Sorry, but the pink slips in the mail. /// Pfffft. Think/argue better. I’m here all week.

    • Zealots to the left of me, zealots to the right of me says:

      Sad that you will be here all week. I have a life however, it has been fun though.

      BTW, when your laying on your deathbed, will you regret the amount of time you have spent trying to convince people just how stupid they are, and how fucking brilliant you are?

      Somehow I doubt it.

      Adios, MoFo!

      • John says:

        Savages. You are all a bunch of savages.

        • Zealots to the left of me, zealots to the right of me says:

          We try, we’re kinda like the blogging version of Fight Club.

        • So what says:

          First rule of Dvorak uncensored, don’t talk about Dvorak uncensored. Other then that all bets are off.

  7. NewformatSux says:

    Don’t worry. Obama expects all partisanship will disappear after he is reelected. The blister will pop, he says.
    That is his plan for the second term. He will keep on blaming Republicans, and perhaps George Bush for four straight years.

  8. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Zealots ad naseum letting the screen door hit him in the ass says:
    8/30/2012 at 3:17 pm

    Sad that you will be here all week. I have a life however, it has been fun though. /// A life full of sound and fury no doubt. But obviously you rarely engage your intellect except with those that agree with you. But if its been fun….. what more is needed?

    BTW, when your laying on your deathbed, will you regret the amount of time you have spent trying to convince people just how stupid they are, and how fucking brilliant you are? /// I’m not “trying” to convince anyone of anything. Just responding to what I see, more for myself than anyone else. I agree I “sound like” what you say, and I may swerve into that lane from time to time, but its a very thin response. The only thing that make the depth you assume is that everything is connected to everything else. Not my doing.

    Somehow I doubt it. /// Anyone on their death bed is just that irrelevant. But for a few more seconds, maybe a spot more lucidity than existing elsewhere for such a long time what with zealots to the left and right of me. It all springs from, and returns to, existential meaningless.

    Adios, MoFo! /// I never did that.

  9. JimD, Boston, MA says:

    Harry Truman said of another famous Republican – Nixon – ” He speaks out of both sides of his mouth – TELLING LIES OUT OF BOTH SIDES !” That’s what Repukes did then, and that is what they STILL DO TODAY !!!

    Truman also said: “They call me ‘Give’em Hell Harry” ! Well, I don’t give them Hell, I just tell the truth, and they think it is Hell !”

    So Romney and Ryan say the want to “Save” these programs BY DESTROYING THEM !!! Sort of like that Village in Vietnam they had to BURN TO “SAVE” IT !!!

  10. Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

    Just had dinner Michele Obama would not approve….and it tasted wonderful!

    • John says:


      • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

        She’s a food Nazi…its seems to be an odd trait among progressives….it doesn’t matter if they are qualified to give advice in an area….they will insist their preferences be followed.

        To contrast a conservative with a progressive, both buy a hybrid. While the conservative brags about saving gas, he’ll still admire his buddy’s Hummer or Joe Six pack’s pickup truck…

        The progressive becomes angry everyone isn’t buying a hybrid, and demands all other vehicles be driven off the market, via regulation and taxation….or now that the Supreme court had made us subjects to Congress, tax our gas guzzling behavior till we “cry uncle.”

        And even then the progressive remains angry with a pained look, like his thong is too tight…

        Or the conservative buys Italian food, lots of pasta etc and his family enjoys their meal….

        The progressive buys his vegetarian gruel and snarls at all the waste at the supermarket…why are there so many kinds of milk…what a waste….snarl spit sputter mutter….we must save the planet…or in 2250, some of us might die…stop all the waste.

        The conservative wants everyone carrying their own weight, and buying their own contraceptives ect….and small government so everyone is free do live their own life.

        The progressive wants everything to be free, except the people…because they are too stupid to choose the right thing for themselves or their children…

        Hence we have Michele telling us how to eat, and what to feed our children….or else…

  11. McCullough says:

    McDonalds AGAIN?!?!

  12. NewformatSux says:

    Obama’s budget plan increases the deficit even more than if you don’t pass Obama’s budget plan. He can’t exactly blame Republicans for not dealing with the deficit, when his own plan would make things worse. No wonder he couldn’t get a single Democrat to vote for it.

    • John says:

      Both parties are completely ignoring the fact that we are metaphorically spending like crazy on a maxed out credit card. Maybe I missed something but I have not seen a plan from either party that eliminates our national debt before 2030. :/

      Maybe this is just the way the world works… but the least we could do is stop spending more than we make.

      This is not a partisan issue, this has been a problem with our government for decades.


      • Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

        That’s incorrect, Congress has sent over a balanced budget, and other bills to Harry Reid….who won’t bring them to a vote.

        Democrat Senate blocks all the cost cutting, stop spending measures of the Republican controlled congress, even when their bills are bipartisan.

        Obama’s budget got zero votes, even Democrats couldn’t support it.

        Its time for him to go, the failure is embarrassing.

        • John says:

          I did not say a balanced budget I said a plan to eliminate our national debt, there is a huge difference. Although I think you are mistaken, no one has come up with a plan to balance the budget deficit either.

          This is not a partisan issue, both parties are guilty.

          • orchidcup says:


            McCain actually said something witty when he pointed out that the Bush administration spent money “like a drunken sailor.”

            Two expensive wars and one bailout later, we are beyond bankruptcy.

            I don’t know why any reasonable voter would expect the Republicans to have any answers, they won’t consider reducing the Pentagon budget.

            Both parties are to blame. No doubt about it.

          • NewformatSux says:

            Cut cap and Balance was passed by the House.
            Actually I think Obama has a pan to eliminate the national debt: repudiate it.
            Early in his term, he announced plans to balance revenues and spending, except for interest on the national debt. Why is that an important number, unless you aren’t planning to pay any interest?

          • John says:

            Cut Cap & Balance is a good point. One of it’s purposes was to raise the debt ceiling which is kind of the opposite direction I was talking about, but there is a lot of good language calling for reduced spending over time in there. If you ask me they should have gone further though.

            Frankly I think anything short of a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget is a half measure.

    • kacrowley says:

      Another lie, Newf. Presidents don’t make budgets.

      You should polish your lies a bit more before you trot them out in public.

  13. NewformatSux says:

    Let’s not leave out the washington Post fact checker, Glenn Kessler.
    From John Nolte at Big Hollywood

    1. A pro-Israel group last week began running ads knocking President Obama for failing to visit Israel. The ad is filled with the sounds of Chinese gongs and Arabian sounds, and postcard-like images showing Obama in his world travels, often arm-in-arm with Arab leaders.

    ME: It is simply a fact that Obama did not visit Israel in his first term.

    2. Then, on Sunday, the Romney campaign echoed this charge with its own ad also calling attention to Obama not visiting Israel as president. …

    ME: Again, it is simply a fact that Obama did not visit Israel in his first term.

    3. The Emergency Committee [for Israel] ad also suggests that Obama has visited Arab countries rather than Israel. …

    ME: It is simply a fact that Obama did visit Arab countries while choosing to not visit Israel.

    4. The ad also incorrectly says Obama has “traveled all over the Middle East.” Obama visited just Turkey and Iraq in April 2009, and Egypt and Saudi Arabia in June 2009.

    ME: Kessler’s assertion that Obama visiting four Middle East countries in two years does not qualify as “travel[ling] all over the Middle East” is his opinion, not a fact.

  14. NewformatSux says:

    Liberals were really freaked out by the convention and Ryan’s speech, and had to resort to calling him a liar in an attempt to hit back.

    The bigger reason for the story is because they are planning to tell many lies at their convention about their opponent, and they wanted to set it up where the worst that happens is both sides are accusing the other side of lying.

    • Dallas says:

      That’s what Honey Boo Boo said!

    • kacrowley says:

      So now the people who call out the liars are the liars. What a lovely deranged place you live in, it truly is Opposite Day every day.

      Ryan lied several times, Romney lied several times, all those lies are documented. Do you want to ask me for a source or are you going to add more lies to the mix?

  15. SchwettyBalls says:

    Republicans saying things that aren’t true to get votes?? That almost never happens every single election.

  16. orchidcup says:

    I should point out that telling the truth is often mistaken as a comedy act.

    George Carlin was a master of telling the truth.

    I sure do miss that guy. I hope he is doing well in hell.

  17. deowll says:

    Different views on the facts. Somebody is obviously wrong. I’m sure you will decide for yourself but at least check the disputed facts:

    • bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

      This plant closing story is a good one to focus on words and what they mean.

      Did the plant close in 2008?==No.
      Did the plant terminate normal operations in 2008?==Yes.
      Did Obama close the plant?==No.
      Did Obama fail to save the plant?==Yes.

      The truth is easy to see if you have a dictionary.

      Just look.

  18. observer says:

    “We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers,” says Romney pollster Neil Newhouse

  19. NewformatSux says:

    Don’t forget Soledad OBrien, CNN’s self anointed fact checker. First she got smothered by John Sununu, then everyone’s favorite witch Christine ODonnell got her to say Obama is a Communist.

  20. NewformatSux says:

    No fact checker has reported as false Eastwood’s statement that Biden is the intellect of the Democratic Party.

  21. NewformatSux says:

    Obama is lying on the campaign trail. He quoted a Romney guy of saying,”We won’t let the truth get in the way.” Even the New York Times said that the Romney guy never said that, though they helpfully put it way down in the column, instead of running it in the headline and editorials that Obama is lying, as they would do for ROmney.

    • kacrowley says:

      So you are quibbling over phrasing? Are you denying that a Romney representative said that they wouldn’t let fact checkers rule the debate?

      Your slippery avoidance of issues shows that you are afraid of honest and open debate. I’ve been trying to get you to be honest for days and all you do is lie or run away.

      Are you proud that you need to use deception and outright lies to defend your political beliefs?


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