Read the full article for the details of how right has run out of gas. Not that the left is any better. If the fiscal cliff crap is any indication, we, the people are, for want of a better word, fucked.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and as utopianism died out on the left, it found a new home to the right of center. The last generation in the U.S. has seen three forms of demented right-wing utopianism: religious, military and economic.

The religious utopianism was that of the Protestant religious right, which grew in influence in the 1980s and peaked in the 1990s. […] But the project of remaking a modern, diverse, continental nation on the basis of a book was equally insane, whether the holy book was Marx’s Kapital or the Bible. The religious right faded as a force by the early 21st century, largely because of the growing secularization of younger Americans.

The next wave of utopianism was military. [..] When democratic revolutions ultimately did come to the Arab world, they were brought about by citizen revolts, not by American invaders and occupiers.

As the neoconservative utopia faded, it was followed in turn by the libertarian utopia. […] To judge by the elections of 2012, in which more Americans cast votes for Democrats for the gerrymandered House as well as in Senate and presidential elections, the public has turned against free market utopians like Paul Ryan, who want to replace social insurance with vouchers and cut taxes further on the rich.

What will succeed the failed utopias of the religious right, the neoconservative right and the libertarian right?



  1. bob says:

    If you want to see what a left wing failed utopia looks like, take a drive thru the city of Detroit.

    • noname says:

      bob I would like to know your example of a right wing utopia?

      • laxdude says:

        I am not sure, but it is probably between the border of Texas and the Austin city limits.

        • Dick says:

          How is Texas an example of failure?

        • Dallas says:

          Actually the blue dots of Texas (Dallas, Austin, San Antonio and Houston) are pretty darn nice.

          I agree the yahoo zones like Waco (Wacko) and similar Teapublican roosts are pretty fucked up.

          • Dallas says:

            There isn’t a US state that meets your criteria.

          • noname says:

            dallas, you’re clueless and have now idea of what you are talking about!

            I’ve lived in Austin, Dallas, North Eastern and North Western states. There are plenty of urban areas and states where life is fuller and doesn’t rotate around football mania!

          • Dallas says:

            He’s talking about states, not urban areas. Why do Teapublicans keep changing the subject?

          • noname says:

            dallas (today it’s with a capital D), your Alzheimer is flaring up again, reading comprehension is low!

            I did mention states, the less backwards and more urban ones, the ones in the north!

    • Grandpa says:

      What you are talking about is the result of both Democrat and Republican policies and laws. It’s not caused by one or the other. It’s caused by bribery, graft, and corruption. Our government officials are “for sale” to the highest bidder. Until “We” figure out how to stop that “We” as a country will continue our trek to the bottom of the third world governments. It may soon be too late.

    • msbpodcast says:

      Right, left. Its all the same.

      If you’re thinking in such bipolar terms, you’re part of the problems.

      Why not try to run the military for profit for a decade or two?

  2. B. Dog says:

    Hookers and blow?

  3. stormtrooper 651 says:

    Uncle Dave, you are a fucking embarrassment to my species.
    Seriously, SALON?
    Clearly neither of you understand the word Utopia or have read the book or even vaguely understand its context or meaning.
    More appropriate reading might be the lead story on the SALON website:
    “SEXY DRESSES THAT BARELY FIT
    I’ve struggled with extra weight for years. But I’ve learned the power of sparkly makeup, Diet Coke and acceptance”

  4. Sea Lawyer says:

    Well we have just had a Senate originated fiscal cliff bill sent to the President even though the Constituion clearly states that all tax measures must originate in the House of Representatives. Obviously we live in a country that cares about nothing except “what can I get out of it.”

    • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

      Hey SL==you aren’t THAT anal retentive are you?—Rules?===”We don’t need no stinkin’ rules round here…”

      Yes–the Senate starts with a bill that they would accept. The House has a benchmark to start their own bill which is the “official” bill.

      You sound like you never used basket leave?

    • NewFormatSux says:

      Bobbo, ignorant as usual. Sea Lawyer is right on the Constitutional process and you are just guessing.

      However, Sea Lawyer, the Senate amended a House bill to pass their bill.

      • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

        ….. wha?? You mean our congress critters follow the constitution to the letter without exceptions without any twists or practices built up over time?

        Good to know.

      • Sea Lawyer says:

        NFS: ah, I should pay closer attention since I didn’t notice that this was H.R. 8 that was voted on. The way that it had been described in the media was that it was a Senate resolution, and I hadn’t remembered anything actually being passed by the House with all the politicking nonsense going on.

    • Dallas says:

      You’re fretting instead of celebrating something has been done. Quit fretting.

      The idea of House origination of tax/revenue bills was because the Senate *WAS* not directly elected by the sheeple and hence the House was more ‘representative’.
      The 17th amendment fixed that.

      Why do Teapublicans dislike amendments to the Constitution?

      • msbpodcast says:

        They remember what a failure prohibition turned out to be.

        And this country hasn’t since I couldn’t own a couple of slaves and had to buy a washlet instead of getting my butt hole licked clean.

        • Dallas says:

          Whoah. I think I rather use a washlet but a couple slaves sound pretty darn good!

  5. bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

    Well….the debt ceiling cliff is approaching in 2 months with Obama saying he won’t play that game (again). I’ll be he does though because he is too far right. In any sense of history, he is but a reasonable moderate Republican of 30 years ago.

    So–there will be a large minority Utopian Right nest of vipers who vote the hypocritical Southern Values of cutting their own throats in the name of Individual Darwinian Freedom.

    What Obama needs to do is simply stand his ground and LET DEMOCRACY LIVE!!!! Let the Pukes do as they will. The voting public has to come to grips with the consequences of their choices rather than be protected by Obama compromising away Democratic Party Principles.

    To restate: the hooman reaction to deeply held religious/political beliefs when challenged is to hold them even more dear… so the rejected Puke Policy believers will just dig in and believe even more strongly. They are “politicians” willing to compromise. They are “true believers” that don’t compromise. They simply need to be weeded out.

    Transitions are always hard.

    • JCD's Love Child says:

      Yeah, because MORE fucked up governments always the answer.

      • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

        Yes, as a matter of fact, without exception—it is.

        Ain’t Reality a Bitch!

        • Rolly Polly says:

          No. YOU’RE the bitch. As in, FEMALE DOG! Because all your ignorant barking isn’t going to change a damn thing.

          At least the rest of us “silly hoomans” can THINK and REMEMBER things. DOGS CAN’T!!!

          It’s as if you never heard the great lie! which starts something like this: “Hi. I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.” But you probably think that’s a knock-knock joke or something. It’s as if you never heard of a back-handed compliment either.

          Seriously though BoBo, go take your meds. Isn’t it about time to also treat that hemorrhoid you also call a tongue?!

        • Bob says:

          So idiot, fucked up and corrupt government is always the answer?

          Reality? Well you got your wish douchebag..in spades.

          What a dumb, piece of shit you really are.

          • Rolly Polly says:

            There. RIGHT THERE! There’s PROOF you have NO INTELLIGENT “HOOMAN” BRAIN! That’s because you are a BITCH! A female DOG!

            You didn’t even READ IT! DID YOU?!

            If you HAD read it and used a “hooman” BRAIN you would have CONNECTED THE DOTS! But you FAILED MISERABLY! SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!

            And just to be perfectly clear, NO! More government is NEVER the answer! That’s YOUR dream as well as Obama’s! So FUCK YOU!

  6. Sea Lawyer says:

    And I fail to see what is “utopian” about the free market. The true utopian view is that technocrats can plan a better system by committee. Anybody who takes free markets in any serious light sees its value in the Hayekian sense as being a realization of spontaneous order that is capable of efficiently disseminating highly decentralized information via a simple price mechanism.

    • Grandpa says:

      Fancy words like “Free Market” and “Free Enterprise” used to mean something until one looks at the result and sees the monopolies and corruption we call “America”. It’s time to fix it or ditch it.

      • Rolly Polly says:

        It’s called FASCISM. Get used to it or at least DON’T vote for any more liberals (either side).

        We may not be sending undesirable people to the concentration camps just yet. Instead, we just deport them! Need any more clues?

  7. JCD's Love Child says:

    What is failed is your continued idea of a left-right paradigm.

    • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

      There is a left/right division but what is not given enough recognition is the HUGE area of overlap which allows too many to say there is no difference between the parties. They have lots of overlap ((which is 99.99% overlapping or consuming of Fraud, btw!)) but the little bulges are on the left and right.

      The similarities AND the differences.

      What a concept.

      • JCD's Love Child says:

        That is true. Pork overconsumption exists in both parties.

      • Rolly Polly says:

        The DIFFERENCE is in what you fail to see. Quite simply it’s a war between the haves and have-nots!

        If you’re a jealous “have not” then you probably think all rich people are corrupt and greedy.

        If you’re a “have” then you probably think all the little cockroaches are nothing but a bunch of whining lazy malcontents who want your money.

        But it’s more than that. It’s also a war between people who DON’T think they should have to EARN anything from people who DO!

        I bet you can’t even guess which side is which. And that’s probably because there really AREN’T any sides!

  8. Admfubar says:

    it wont matter what fills in for a supposed failed party… it doesnt matter as the corporations will have still have THEIR WAY, not the way of the people.
    We’ve been a corporate oligarchy since day one..

  9. NewFormatSux says:

    During the fiscal cliff, Obama gets tax increases, less than what would have passed if he had done nothing, an extension of unemployment benefits for a year which he probably gets by itself whenever he wants just as last year, no deal on the debt ceiling, no deal on upcoming spending which is still not paid for. So he gave away his leverage to lower taxes. Now Republicans have the leverage in that Obama can’t spend what Republicans won’t pass. And Obama has gotten his tax increases and it’s not enough, it was never enough. There is no money to enable the liberal vision of big government. Obama’s starting position in negotiations was to get higher tax rates and a reduction in tax deductions, which would give him more money to spend, and make it harder for Republicans to reduce taxes in the future.

    All Obama has to show for it is a symbolic victory of he got Republicans to vote for higher taxes, which carries no long term damage as even Grover Norquist doesn’t buy that argument.

    • Grandpa says:

      Correct. Obama caved in to the wealthy corruption that is Washington.

    • Rolly Polly says:

      Did you hear the one about the 3 little pigs?

      I bet you thought Goldie Locks was in that one too.

      Try paying attention a little more.

  10. polizeros says:

    Until the feds starting putting banksters in prison and we get actual Rule of Law again, then both parties are corrupt and complicit.

    Thousands of bankers went to prison during the S&L debacle of the 19080’s. Today, HBSC admits to laundering hundreds of billions and there aren’t even criminal indictments.

    If that happened in Mexico we’d laugh and call it corruption.

  11. notatall says:

    For the last time…paul ryan is not a libertarian. At best he’s a fascist, and not even a very good one of those. There are no libertarians in power. There have not been any in power for a very, very long time. Stop blaming them for the mess your beloved one party system made.

    • LibertyLover says:

      FTW!

      • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

        Say Loser—why don’t you tell us the difference between Paul Ryan’s Politican Agenda and your own?

        We’ll Wait…… but not hold our breath.

        What a pair of loons. ((Thats YOU and Ryan—NAA being right on the mark and YOU too stupid not to see yourself in that mirror that Mpod is holding up.))

        Ha, ha…………………..

        • LibertyLover says:

          Mouth breathers back under the bridge, please.

          • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

            How do you differ from Paul Ryan?

            No answer to follow….. nothing but bumper stickers to repeat ad naseum.

            Poor little liebertardian.

          • Rolly Polly says:

            You got that right! BoBo is a BITCH! So “mouth breathers” is definitely correct.

            She’s NOT even “hooman”!

            Ha HA!

  12. Glenn E. says:

    “libertarian”… “utopians like Paul Ryan, who want to replace social insurance with vouchers and cut taxes further on the rich.”

    Well make up your mind. Which mythical beast is he? And when millions of out of work Americans, see a guy like this whose only concern seems to be reducing the taxes of those who can well afford to pay ANY taxes, but spend most of their surplus income funding politicians to reduce their taxes, even lower than they’re managing to squeak by with. I’m sure the major of the voting public thinks its time for a some economic equality. The pay scale (or bonuses) for the rich executives, just keeps going up and up. Compared to the labor force’s base pay scale, which has either stagnated or lost ground, when it comes to covering health benefits and retirement funding. Or their jobs get send overseas to China or India, while the executives at the top, retain theirs. So asking for, and apparently expecting to get, from Congress, a tax reduction. Amounts to a slap in the face of all other Americans. Who don’t get a entire political party to champion their economic situation, as much as the “right wing” does for the rich.

    If there was a two party political system, based purely on the rich 1% vs. the much poorer 99% of the US population. I’m sure each election would be a landslide victory for the 99% party, every time. But that “pure” two party system doesn’t exist. Instead, we have parties that pretend to stand for other things, not just the economic imbalance they seem to spend so much time defending, to their last breath. And so the average voter still believes on party or the other spends any of its time concerned with those “other issues”, like health care or civil rights. Yeah, dream on.

    • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

      Good calm dissertation of the problem “but” problematic when talking about purity. If one party did represent purely the 99%–how would they try to govern any differently than what the Dem’s are doing WHEN it comes to the 99-1 divide?

      I look forward to your considered thoughts.

      • Rolly Polly says:

        That’d be swell if only you had a “hooman” BRAIN that worked!

  13. I would not be surprised to see the GOP vanish altogether and a new liberal/conservative party rise from the democrats. There’s too much implied race-hate surrounding the GOP, true or not. And with whites on a decline in the country, their days are pretty much numbered.

  14. dusanmal says:

    Article which includes patent lies, contrary to the simplest facts available to anyone, like this “…To judge by the elections of 2012, in which more Americans cast votes for Democrats for the gerrymandered House as well as in Senate and presidential elections, the public has turned against free market utopians…” – is a patent lie ignoring what is happening in the society. Wishful thinking.
    Facts: Popular majority voted for the Right in last elections. Evidence: Obama won electoral vote. Romney popular vote. More important fact: House, the only branch of the Government elected exactly by popular vote in strong Republican control.
    Facts article ignores as well: US political polarization increased, middle is squeezed out. Although there is clear popular vote win on the Right, it is not by much. Country is split approximately at the middle and both sides are pushing extremes.
    That is the story. Unfortunately these facts speak of increased entrenchment of the far Left and far Right. Ideologs won. Supporting fact: the most ideological President we ever have had – won. That is the world we live in. That is why there is dis-function in Government. Rational middle is nowhere to be found.

    • Foggy brain says:

      Uh, dusan – give us a link from someplace more reputable than the Aryan Brotherhood that shows Romney winning the popular vote.

      Hilarious that there is someone walking in the door, here, who believes this crap.

    • Rolly Polly says:

      I’m not sure I like what you said were facts.

      When it comes to the House of Representatives, each person in the House is elected every two years according to GEOGRAPHIC population. Very simply, States with more people, NOT necessarily more citizens!, get more Representatives that they can elect to the U.S. House. But that’s also where the gerrymandering accusation comes in (again) because both sides are almost constantly arguing if some “district” has more registered red voters or more registered blue voters and just what’s fair to each party. They then “re-district” once they come to a compromise because it’s each district that ends up electing any particular Representative. (So if we really wanted to correct this or possibly just screw with them then no one would register as either a Democrat or as a Republican. But good luck with that one.)

      The other fact you seem to be confused about is just who won the 2012 election. Romney did NOT win either the electoral vote or the popular vote. Romney didn’t quite get 61 million votes whereas Obama got just under 66 million (a mere difference of about 5 million votes which you might also note is a near record turn out of nearly 50-percent). So plain and simple, Romney lost! And you can say he cut his own political throat too. But if you ask me, Romney threw his chances away with that 47-percent comment (probably because he thought he was at another Bilderberg conference).

      Don’t get me wrong! I almost voted for Romney. But like an idiot, I threw my vote away on the Libertarian candidate once I actually listened to Obama/Romney talk. The only difference in my case is that a true idiot would have actually thought someone else could have won – not me.

      • LibertyLover says:

        47-percent comment

        It was the Republicans, under Reagan, who initially started this trend with the Earned Income Tax Credit. Each year since, it has increased to include more people.

        47% is where it is at now.

        I am not sure how the Democrats take credit for it or why the Republicans denounce it, but that was the way it worked out.

        Reagan felt that it was would be easier to put more money in the hands of the poor with skimming 25% off the top and then giving it back them.

        • LibertyLover says:

          Reagan felt that it was would be easier to put more money in the hands of the poor with skimming 25% off the top and then giving it back them.

          Reagan felt that it was would be easier to put more money in the hands of the poor INSTEAD OF skimming 25% off the top and then giving it back them.

          And to clarify, Reagan didn’t invent it. He re-invented it.

        • Rolly Polly says:

          Did you even WATCH THE VIDEO?

          http://youtube.com/watch?v=nvqHERTcytI&feature=youtube_gdata

          Romney basically said he wasn’t even going to try to appeal to the 47-percent who feel they are ENTITLED to receive government handouts. Things like SOCIAL SECURITY or MEDICARE or even UNEMPLOYMENT benefits. His IMPLICATION was that we are all just a bunch of ungrateful TAX PAYERS who probably shouldn’t even expect something in return!

          His comments were like a whole new level of arrogance – on steroids! Cause even if it’s TRUE, it’s a damn good way to loose an election. Even Richard Nixon and George W. Bush weren’t that stupid.

          • LibertyLover says:

            The EITC started out as a helping hand measure. It has morphed into an entitlement. This is what happens with all social programs (note, I include all corporate welfare in the same category).

            So, he was right. Note I was not and am not a Romney supporter. I may agree with him on this issue but I don’t like the majority of his politics. I’m not defending his actions, though — if he had truly wanted to be president, he wouldn’t have said that. I honestly don’t think he wanted to be.

            This election proves, if nothing else, the tipping point has been reached. There are too many people receiving free stuff from the government for the election to have gone any other way. All future election victories will be based on the same thing — who gives away the most stuff — because if there is one constant in any governmental body, it is you cannot kill an entitlement (social) program.

            Soon, there will be no more free stuff to give and we’ll have riots in the streets that will make Greece look like Woodstock.

    • Grandpa says:

      And, after much debate, the first thing they said when they were done was: “We preserved the military budget and must now focus on entitlements. That’s where the real money is.”

      Say goodbye to Medicare and Social Security, our chief negotiator is a wimp.

  15. Dallas says:

    What’s next is continued lost elections, increasing unpopularity with the young, minorities, women and more infighting as they struggle to remain relevant.

    While we wish we can just stab in the heart with a wooden stake, the lunatic right will likely die a slow death like the KKK or Communism.

    • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

      Close….nice try on returning to OP but I think that lunatic right will quickly evolve into a new “Silent Majority” of uninvolved voters as the body politics turns to Social and Environmental Issues. Two nasty sticky difficult issues that won’t go away because they are simply ignored.

      We both support Obama. I because of the Alternatives. Not clear about you. That said, I do Hope Obama allows the Pukes to HURT AMERICA in the coming debt ceiling debate. Let the Pukes have their way====let america see them for what they are.

      Obama’s unreasonable bi-partisanship is hiding the perfidy and ugliness of the Puke Party.

      Lets have up and down votes on what is good/bad for America and let the Parties be seen for what they are.

      Yea, Verily!

  16. Captain Obvious says:

    Marco Rubio on Twitter:

    Report that #GOP insisting on changes to social security as part of #fiscalcliff false.BTW those changes are supported by @BarackObama.

    • Dallas says:

      I support changes to SS. It’s overdue. I hope Pres Obama also would support changes.

      Having said that, SS is, by law, not associated with the deficit.

      • LibertyLover says:

        Having said that, SS is, by law, not associated with the deficit.

        Which is scary in and of itself. It’s still a liability, just as real as defense spending.

        It guess that money just comes out of nowhere.

      • Captain Obvious says:

        The point is that the Republicans have backed themselves into their own corner. The pointless fiscal cliff BS is just one example. Look at Congress, they can’t even do basic legislation anymore.

        • Rolly Polly says:

          Are you kidding me?! “Can’t even do basic legislation“?!!!

          Have you SEEN the new stack of LAWS that went into effect?!

          I think you mean, Congress can’t EFFECTIVELY legislate SENSIBLY any more (as if to assume they ever could)!

    • Grandpa says:

      What a bunch of ignorant idiots. Social Security and Medicare would be fine if YOU IDIOTS would not support people that want to gut them. Pay for the Bush wars and Military ridiculousness with TAXES, not by throwing Granny under the bus.

      Hope you idiots like living with Mom and Dad..

      • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

        Dat be True. Its called: “Framing the Debate.” Easiest for the most informed people to get sucked into that forest/trees issues.

        Once again, the voters are clammering to cut their own throats under one guise or the next: Patriotism, Freedom, Fiscal Responsibility===”Shampolitics.”

        If you think SS or MediCare should be cut rather than expanded====you’ve been snookered.

        START OVER: What is the basic role of Government? WHY is Europe doing a better job on these issues than the USA? (Yes–I know the knee jerk responses==try not to say “Greece” for unthinking pity’s sake!!!)

        Framing the Debate. Powerful when it works.

  17. bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

    Rolly Polly says:
    1/2/2013 at 10:22 am

    No. YOU’RE the bitch. As in, FEMALE DOG! Because all your ignorant barking isn’t going to change a damn thing.

    At least the rest of us “silly hoomans” can THINK and REMEMBER things. DOGS CAN’T!!!

    It’s as if you never heard the great lie! which starts something like this: “Hi. I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.” But you probably think that’s a knock-knock joke or something. It’s as if you never heard of a back-handed compliment either.

    Seriously though BoBo, go take your meds. Isn’t it about time to also treat that hemorrhoid you also call a tongue?!
    Reply
    Bob says:
    1/2/2013 at 12:28 pm

    So idiot, fucked up and corrupt government is always the answer?

    Reality? Well you got your wish douchebag..in spades.

    What a dumb, piece of shit you really are.
    Reply

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    …………The alternative to f*cked up corrupt inefficient government is……………….what?

    You are second in line behind Loser’s explanation as to why his Liebertardism is not Fascism in Drag. Jump the line if you can find two brain cells to rub together?

    IOW–sorry my feebles====GOVERNMENT is the ocean we fish swim in.

    Reality moves to Stage Left.

    Silly Hoomans.

    • Rolly Polly says:

      You’re not even a good dog. Good dogs KEEP UP!

      They also don’t get “twisted” in their leashes. But not YOU!

      There are words to describe what a fucked up piece of shit you are. Here’s a hint: it LOOKS like shit and to say it’s fucked up is being POLITE!

  18. joeaverageamerican says:

    Yawn….

  19. noname says:

    What’s Next For The Failed Right Wing? Hopefully extinction!

    • Rolly Polly says:

      I suppose you never heard the expression, “Be careful what you wish for.”

      You just might GET IT!

      Although it’s pretty clear that you don’t “get” anything just yet.

      • noname says:

        We all can’t be as corpulent and oozing with excess knowledge as you!

  20. birddog says:

    The U.S.A. is circling the drain and neither side has the plug.

  21. Derek says:

    I’m debt free and grow most of my own food. The morons who voted for this administration can go screw themselves. Doesn’t matter much to me at all.

    • Duh! says:

      You must not pay TAXES either. Right?!

      Be as apathetic as you like. This shit will affect you if you live anywhere in the U.S.A. or any of it’s territories. Because there’s these things called PROPERTY TAXES that everyone pays. Most other countries have them too.

      The sad thing is a LOT of people don’t even realize they pay property taxes since it’s usually part of their mortgage. In fact, most IDIOTS actually think that their INCOME TAX is what pays for the firemen, police and schools – WRONG! It’s your PROPERTY TAX that primarily pays for it. Income taxes only help “subsidize” what the property taxes DON’T cover (among other things).

      Even more sad are the idiots who DON’T have a mortgage and DON’T pay their property taxes. These idiots almost always get foreclosed on by the county or an anonymous tax lien holder after a few years have passed (as opposed to a bank which would foreclose on an unpaid mortgage or something). So I hope you’re not one of them. Are you?!

      We haven’t even talked about sales taxes or taxes that the I.R.S. deals with, really! And if you arrogantly think those things can’t affect you then we’ll probably see you living under a bridge sometime in the future. YOU DUMB SHIT!

      • Derek says:

        I pay all of my taxes, and the amount my taxes hurt has barely has an effect on me. I’ve focused everything on minimaliszing the effect anyone can possibly have on me. I spent most of my life helping charities, local businesses, and even had a brief run in politics. I was once an optimist, but after these last 13 years, I’m done being optimistic.

        Until our government can actually abide by it’s own rules it forces everyone else to abide by, I’ll just sit back and watch everyone burn. This past election proved to me that Americans care more about getting an Obamaphone than they do even having any future at all. Because of that, I could care less what happens at this point.

        You, the american public, voted to crash our economy to keep your benefits. I will sit back and watch you all eat each other alive. The iceberg is coming and the american public hate voted full speed ahead.

        • Duh! says:

          Well, at least I’ll put an ore in the water and try to slow the impact by paddling in reverse of that iceberg.

          But you just sit back and enjoy the quartet music. Watch it all burn and laugh your ass off until cold hard reality takes hold. It’s not like you could have helped with your ore or anything.

          Remember: Apathy never solved a damn thing!

          • The Monster's Lawyer says:

            oar

          • Duh! says:

            Oar as in boat oar. Sorry for the typo. (And not “type O” as in a tampon soaked blood type either.) Let’s all be politicians and get mired down in pure bullshit! That sure helps no one.

            Ore is what you might smelt from raw materials, like iron ore. (So wrong again there, BLOW BLOW.)

            Of course, I’m sure many people here would just leave out the trailing e and might not have even noticed if I’d just said OR. So you can imagine my surprise that anyone actually caught it. Usually, other people here can’t even use words like their, there or they’re, correctly and often misuse two, too and to TOO! So way to go with the nit picking.

            It’s not like weird characters like === aren’t typo’s either. However, I do suggest you leave those errors alone since it’s usually a sign of someone missing his medication or doing the old liberal masturbation trick. I don’t know about you, but I refuse to JOIN IN and give those NON “hoomans” any PLEASURE!

        • LibertyLover says:

          I’ve pretty much come to the same conclusion.

          Let the Mother Fucker burn!

          I’ve stopped hiring new people. I’m in coast mode right now. I lost some engineers last year. Have no plans to replace them. Just maintaining the existing customers we have and taking on jobs I can do with my existing manpower.

          Raising my rates, though. I’ll be damned if I take a cut in my standard of living because people think I make too much money.

          They want more taxes? They can pay them for me.

          So, the next time they buy milk or gas or a car or water their yard and it costs a little more, I am sure they will be happy to know they are contributing to the welfare of the country.

          • So what says:

            Derek and Liberty delivering two of the biggest loads of bullshit. Right up there with Alfies “progressives” are ruining the universe.

          • bobbo, one true Liberal recognizing Obama is too far Right says:

            Ha, ha.===You’re last 5 posts have all been “Me too!”

            “Hey everybody—Look at Me—I’m a LOSER too, just Like Derek.”

            The middle ground is for reasonable people, the extremes of Happy/Sad, Optimistic/Pessimistic, Leading a Local Revolt/Growing your Own Food are for… the extremes, the fantacists, or those in straight jackets.

            Moan and Groan about REALITY you silly bitches–let the real men get the work done. Your idiot fantasies of being independent and going your own way are just that.

            I do assume though your mouth overperforms your accomplishments. Society is very powerful, even on your own private property.

            I thought that “ore” was the lead dead weight of stupid extremists. Probably was a paddle though.

            Silly Hoomans.

          • LibertyLover says:

            So What,

            Why do you say so?

          • LibertyLover says:

            SW,

            Seriously.

            Are you mad because I’m raising my rates?

            Are you mad because I’ve given up on expecting something better out of my government?

            I really want to know why you think I should lower my standard of living because you want me to.

          • Duh! says:

            @LibertyLover,

            Who could possibly be mad at you for exercising your Constitutional Rights?

            I might be a little upset with you for being something of a scum bag (assuming you even are one). But it’s really small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

            However, I’m sure a die-hard communist like blow blow sees it differently since his style of government is to take away everything you or I have ever EARNED, redistribute it, and pass laws that prevent anyone from being a scum bag CAPITALIST.

            So I guess I answered it. Blow blow, the masturbating freak of nature because he’s a non “hooman” will blame you. You rich lucky evil bastard you. 😉

          • LibertyLover says:

            Duh,

            I don’t like think I’m a scumbag. I’m sure some people might think that because I believe I should benefit more from what I build than not.

            If I can’t benefit more, then why build anything at all?

          • So what says:

            Easy peasy liberty, “I’m in coast mode right now.” a business that is “coasting” is a failing business. That marks you as either a piss poor businessman or a liar.

            I used to work for a couple of companies that thought “coasting” was a successful strategy. I left because I knew better, they aren’t in business any more.

          • LibertyLover says:

            By coasting, I mean I don’t intend to grow anymore. I’m happy with a consistent 25% profit return each year.

          • So what says:

            Which is exactly what I am talking about. Your profit won’t stay at 25%, while you’re coasting your competitors are not. I spent a dozen years working for a high precision metal die-casting company. When they felt pressured they fell back on their safe core profit makers. Their competition didn’t, they began to lose that core because they were no longer competitive. Hence the competition is still in business and they are not, coasting is failing.

          • LibertyLover says:

            I said we weren’t growing.

            I didn’t say we weren’t innovating. We come out with updates to our products all the time, new features, more efficient ways to do things, new products, etc.

            If I can give a customer a product that makes him 10% more efficient than if used our old product, and the price the same, he’ll keep using us.

            Big difference.

          • Dallas says:

            Whaaaaa whaaaaaa. I getting all my toys and playing indoors . Whaaaa

          • LibertyLover says:

            Whaaaaa whaaaaaa. I getting all my toys and playing indoors . Whaaaa

            I made the toys, why not?

          • So what says:

            Then you’re not “coasting.” Make up your mind.

          • LibertyLover says:

            You say tomAto, I say tomoto.

            I consider not growing to be coasting.

            You may be thinking of going stagnant.

          • Derek says:

            First, I’ve always grown most of my own food. It tastes better to me and the security of having my own food reserves means my life has less volatility.

            As far as being “extreme”, I’m not. I’m just done trying to support a country vilifies success. I’m done trying to support a country that cares more about benefits than having any kind of future. I’m done trying to support a country that prefers dependency over freedom.

            I’m done. I hope this administration and everyone who voted for them gets EXACTLY what they are asking for.

  22. The Monster's Lawyer says:

    What’s Next For The Failed Right Wing?
    Pay taxes and die like the rest of us.

  23. Uncle Patso says:

    It’s obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that what is needed is to increase revenue some and cut spending some and ask _everyone_ to bite the bullet some.

    But all the hardened arteries in the brain types are all afraid that every cent in taxes portends The End Of The World As We Know It, and the Nanny State types are all “But we have to take care of all those Poor People!”

    Nuts.

    Take care of maybe ten percent, give a small break to maybe the next poorest fifteen to twenty percent and the rest can take care of themselves. Meanwhile, limit the combination of all taxes at all levels to no more than 25-28 percent of the economy. Although we’re not nearly in as bad a shape as Greece or Spain or even Italy, a little austerity now is indicated.

    Discuss.

    • LibertyLover says:

      It’s obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together that what is needed is to increase revenue some and cut spending some and ask _everyone_ to bite the bullet some.

      The spending will never be cut voluntarily.

      Never.

      Take care of maybe ten percent, give a small break to maybe the next poorest fifteen to twenty percent and the rest can take care of themselves. Meanwhile, limit the combination of all taxes at all levels to no more than 25-28 percent of the economy.

      Sounds reasonable though I would argue the 25-28% is a bit high unless by “all levels” you mean federal, state, and local combined.

      And do you want to tell the next 37% (47% – 10%) they aren’t getting the free ride anymore?

      The spending will never be cut voluntarily.

      Never.

    • So what says:

      Good luck as neither side can actually agree on what needs to be cut or how to raise revenue. The difference between a small town city council and congress is the size of the budget and the size of the mistakes, otherwise the bullshit is still the same.

    • Dick says:

      WOW! Talk about not having 2 brain cells to rub together.

    • TheMAXX says:

      Austerity brought a second depression to the European countries that tried it and the countries that didn’t have some of the best economies in the world right now… Raising taxes won’t hurt. Historically the economy does much better when we tax more and does worse when we tax less. This makes perfect sense if you think about it logically for one second: More money in fewer hands means the greediest, dumbest, most sociopathic people have more of an effect on the economy. We put more money into the public sector and we will absolutely have a more logical and stable economy.

  24. bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

    Sure sign of an immature fantacist: they devolve into their own secret language as in “I’m coasting.” To whit:

    So what says:
    1/3/2013 at 3:49 pm

    Then you’re not “coasting.” Make up your mind.
    LibertyLover says:
    1/3/2013 at 4:06 pm

    You say tomAto, I say tomoto.

    I consider not growing to be coasting.

    You may be thinking of going stagnant.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Loser says To(I’m an Idiot)maTo with every post he conjures up. Pukes do this all the time. I say International Corporatist evading the Tax Laws of the USA and Loser says “job creator.”

    Words are like that. It the hard fascism of the Dictionary they hate. Loser does sound like an outlier though as opposed to an out right liar. Imagine actually having a business and being as knee jerk high school stupid as he is……………oohhh….. I just had a shudder===imagine working for him.

    Yes mazzah, I not been coasting, I been innovating.

    What a dope.

  25. Grandpa says:

    What’s with all the doom and gloom. I can remember a time when we all paid taxes and Social Security and Medicare were fully funded. They were good times too. If we can do it once, we can do it again. All we need are people smart enough to know we must pay our taxes, and legislators patriotic enough to craft legislation that benefits Americans.

    • Dick says:

      Sounds like the cries of the truly IGNORANT!

      You sure got your head up something dark and stinky.

      Want to get a clue? Try reading the CONSTITUTION and a little thing called the BILL OF RIGHTS (which is part of it)!

      Don’t bother with that Declaration of Independence thing. It’s really not much more than a national birth certificate. After all, no one really cares about birth certificates or college transcripts, etc. But we sure as hell want to see those 1040’s! It’s not like anyone really cares about values which inconveniently happen to be written on goddamn 200 year-old piece of paper (parchment) or anything.

      Is that “clue” starting to cause a headache for you yet? Thinking about telling me off? (I can just see the “birther” accusations by the IDIOTS who already lost FOCUS here.)

  26. NewFormatSux says:

    In tax year 1980, you had to pay a tax of 50% on income over 23,000 and 60% on income over 45,000. These numbers were not adjusted for inflation. Under the right wing, these tax rates and higher ones were lowered down to 28%, to the point where even Marxist Barack Obama declared that a 40% tax rate on millionaires and billionaires represents their fair share. So the right wing has been very successful. As for the military right wing, I note that Barack Obama declared the War Powers Act irrelevant.

    • Dick says:

      Are you for REAL?! Where the FUCK did you get those figures?! FIFTY PERCENT?! You seem to assume that it’s all kept money too. BULLSHIT!

      Try taking a math class. No one earning less than what’s officially declared as poverty pays ANY taxes! That is, as long as they file a 1040 tax form and actually PAID something! And since nearly everyone with a job files a tax return form this 50% claim is really total crap!

      If you earned anywhere NEAR poverty levels, you may have had income tax WITHHELD! But file that 1040 form and you get it ALL BACK! Even if you make more than poverty levels you still get MOST of it back! Ask a knowledgeable Certified Public Accountant (CPA).

      Again, you have to be smart enough to file your tax forms and know what deductions to claim and/or plan for. The scary thing is, most people don’t!

      Maybe you need to notice all the little pinheads running around by the time April 15 gets closer? They always promise quick returns so that the other idiots can immediately go out and buy a new color television set or spend it on other crap. Most of these fools who get their tax “returns” almost ALWAYS think that it’s the government’s money too! They’re IDIOTS!

      • NewformatSux says:

        Search for historical tax tables. My numbers are correct. Those income levels were not considered poverty at the time. But income taxes were not adjusted for inflation either, creating bracket creep.

    • LibertyLover says:

      And in the fifties the rate was around 90%.

      That was the marginal tax rate, though.

      After deductions, the effective tax rate was closer to 20%.

      http://tinyurl.com/afb5tpk

      Here is a chart showing the marginal vs. effective tax rates since inception. As can be clearly seen, the government has been bringing in roughly the same percentage of GDP for 60 years.

      So, if the government’s been bringing in the same percentage for decades, we have to ask ourselves, why are we broke?

  27. MikeN says:

    Those who are against Reagan’s tax cuts should be prepared to pay the IRS 50% of all income over $23,000. It’s only fair.

  28. Somebody says:

    What will succeed the failed utopias of the religious right, the neoconservative right and the libertarian right?

    Nice try.

    But you really can’t get away with lumping libertarianism in with the two failures. If you were paying attention during the primaries, you could hardly have failed to notice that libertarianism was offered but soundly rejected by the rank and foul of the party.

    In fact, Romney’s mission was to knock Ron Paul out of action so that the people would have no real choice in the general election.
    It’s the only explanation for why Goldman Saches gave Romney so much money in the primaries after having given so much cash to Obama.

    There is more to libertarianism than throwing Granny out of the iron lung. There’ s that whole end to corporate bailouts and the free ride for the military- industrial- complex that has made it necessary for those who own the media to program you to hate and fear freedom as you do.

    Honest money and the respect for law and human rights – that’s poison to those guys – and too good for the likes of you!


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