In a hushed auditorium, harshly lit for television, the families and neighbors of Sandy Hook’s lost children told visiting legislators Monday night to take a stand against gun violence, not always prescribing how.

“You are our elected officials,” said Nicole Hockley, who last held the hand of her 6-year-old son, Dylan, as he lay in a small casket. “It is your duty to create and enforce the laws that protect and help us, using common sense, morals and a sense of humanity to guide you…”

The bipartisan legislative task force created in response to the shooting deaths of 20 first-graders and six staff members at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14 filled the wide stage of Newtown High School…

The hearing was like none at the State Capitol in Hartford. It couldn’t be, not in a town where a firehouse is newly decorated with 26 copper stars, one for each victim. It is a place where most anything can remind residents of what happened on Dec. 14.

David Wheeler, whose six-year-old son, Benjamin, was killed, said the legislators must find a way for authorties to better match information on the emotionally disturbed against a registry of homes with guns. No authority apparently ever challenged Nancy Lanza for keeping an AR-15 and other firearms in a home with a son who had emotional problems.

“It doesn’t matter to whom these weapons were registered. It doesn’t matter if they were purchased legally,” Wheeler said. “What matters is that it was far too easy for another mentally unbalanced, suicidal person who had a violent obsessions to have easy access to unreasonably powerful weapons.”

To gun owners who ask that their Second Amendment rights not be infringed by asking them to give up certain rifles and high-capacity magazines, Wheeler asked about aother right articulated by the Founding Fathers, the inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

“The liberty of any person to own a military-style assault weapon and a high-capacity magazine and keep them in their home is second to the right of my son to his life — his life, to the right to live of all those children and those teachers,” Wheeler said. “Let’s honor the Founding Fathers and get our priorities straight.”

What are your priorities?



  1. Bobo The OTHER one! THE "RIGHT" ONE!!! says:

    When it happens again (not if but when), watch how the media will find people pointing fingers. They will probably even put more bereaved relatives in the limelight who may sound intelligent but still not know a damn thing about the rule of law. You can be sure that these groups will AGAIN look at that same old scapegoat since it’s a whole lot easier than possibly admitting that they themselves might partly be to blame. Frankly, anyone who values violence and patronizes anyone else selling violence can take partial blame. (And don’t be so quick to disagree if you’ve EVER paid to watch an R rated movie.)

    You can be sure that NO ONE will seriously look at any of the real causes such as the entertainment industry which glorifies violence or the immature/imbalanced minds violent media possibly affects. That may have something to do with the fact that the news agencies themselves are part of the very same entertainment monster. And anytime that monster can use sex or violence to gather an audience it will do it.

    You can also be sure that NO ONE will take a good hard look at western society either. A society which has historically been very violent. Even now with 2 wars and a divided bickering government. A society that has never really been able to collectively find it’s HUMANITY!

    I just love how Raymond Joseph Teller of “Penn and Teller” once put it (paraphrasing here), ” we are a society bent on spending money we don’t have, killing people we don’t know, and for principles we have no clue about. ” So is it any wonder there aren’t MORE mass killings when we accept violent behavior as part of every day life?! (Pun unintended.)

    Be sure you are vilifying the right entity here. ONE mentally disturbed PERSON did this horrific act. And he was partly guided by, and certainly affected by a CULTURE and a SOCIETY of PEOPLE!

    And if you still say guns kill people then you might as well finish that thought and say knives, cars, trucks, buses and even planes kill people. Hell! STD’s (sexually transmitted diseases) kill people too! And you can control THAT just the same as an AK47!

  2. ECA says:

    I need to add 1 point here..
    Just 1..
    In my schools in the long PAST..
    1. all doors locked, when in class.
    2. METAL DOORS
    3. OUR schools were designed to be Fallout shelters, and emergency buildings..

    NOW..
    I was told he shot the door open? THATS alot of bullets to open a door. As he had to destroy the internal SIDe of the lock.. Or shatter a wire mesh window..
    For all that we have done after 911, to keep kids SAFE in schools from child abductions, from Strange teachers.. what happened to the doors?

    A door buzzer/bell to look and see WHO/WHAT is coming into the school. This person was supposed to have Many weapons..
    FROM 911, we have metal detectors in schools in LARGE cities…

    I wont get into mental health. ITS NOT worth it. lets just say, we DONT have enough HOSPITALS OR MONEY..

    • orchidcup says:

      I wont get into mental health. ITS NOT worth it. lets just say, we DONT have enough HOSPITALS OR MONEY..

      We have the money to police the world and operate military bases all over the world.

      We have the money to build bigger and better aircraft carriers and weapons of mass destruction.

      We have the money to train young immature men and women to kill on command without questioning the motive.

      We have the money to spend on foreign aid that supports monolithic dictators.

      We have the money to build bigger football stadiums.

      It is our priorities that suck.

      • Dallas says:

        Absolutely right. Our priorities are wrong.

        The decision makers make priorities based on profit and lobby influence.

        Job one for these institutions become how to market the hairball decisions to the sheeple.

        • LibertyLover says:

          How can you even sit there and type that drivel after you voted for the man who has done nothing but perpetrate and expand it?!

          You lost the right to complain against it when you voted for it.

          • Dallas says:

            I’m a believer in reality. To make progress (as Obama has on many unpopular issues), you often need to accommodate the power brokers that for better or worse, have the influence and resources to make things happen.

            As a manager, you should know that compromise is important in making a deal. If you would know that, your business will flourish ! You’re welcome

          • LibertyLover says:

            Let me translate:

            “It’s ok if Obama does it.”

  3. Mr Diesel says:

    Dallas,

    I know one drag queen and call him/her friend as well. He has had AIDS for over 20 years now, the entire time I’ve know him. More medical problems than a PDR.

    • Dallas says:

      Sadly, many people live with AIDS these days. I believe drag queens generally like to refer themselves as ‘him’ or ‘he’.

      • The Monster's Lawyer says:

        And, if Herr Diesel was a true friend would know that.

      • Sea Lawyer says:

        But on RuPaul’s Drag Race they all refer to themselves as shes. No consistency…

        • Dallas says:

          When in drag, yes. I’m sure Herr Diesel would only associate when he’s a he.

  4. MikeN says:

    Liberals claim to be grounded in reality, based on science. Yet they constantly just spout policies based on feelings not evidence. There was an assault weapons ban in place for 10 years. Then the ban expired. Evaluating crime levels between the two periods should tell us if the law has an effect. How many liberals have analyzed these periods to decide their position on gun control?

  5. Dallas says:

    Liberals claim to be grounded in reality, based on science. Yet they constantly just spout policies based on feelings not evidence.

    Are you suggesting that conservatives, by comparison, are grounded in science and reality? Explain.

    (explanation must include the words “God” and “conservative morals” )

    • orchidcup says:

      (explanation must include the words “God” and “conservative morals” )

      You meant to say “God” and “Biblical morals” I am sure.

      The morals I read in the Bible include genocide, slavery, and suppression of free thought and speech.

      But many so-called conservatives think the Bible says things that are simply not there.

  6. dave m brewer says:

    And now these people who lost their children are gun experts. This people will now govern what has been a 230 (s0me odd) law for the rest of us!

    Insane!!!

    People who drive drunk/texting and kill someone are given better treatment under the law.

    • MikeN says:

      And apparently they don’t even know what type of gun was used to kill their children. Liberals priorities are on exploiting their loss, rather than helping them come to terms with it.

      • dave m brewer says:

        The children destiny were set at the being of time. Nothing would has stopped this. Not even free will.

  7. MikeN says:

    Through their grief, liberals seek to gain more power for the government. As the first round appears to have failed, they are now hoping for another shooting to push things along.

    • dave m brewer says:

      Your right… Come on your a politician and have so many people in you pocket. Fuck what goes on Capital Hill… You can do and setup anything at the bottom of the Hill.

      (Interesting that big corporate men go through a divorce and lose all that money when it’s easier to have her whacked is beyond me.

      When a hit man does a big hit. There are hit men to kill the other hit man so that nobody knows what’s going on. There might be 5 hit men whacked after a job. Let’s just hope your the last hit man.

      Will never know who killed JFK. And who set it up.)

      • Gwad his own self says:

        E Howard Hunt (allegedly, according to his son) admitted that he did it at the behest of LBJ.

  8. bobbo, we think with words, and flower with ideas says:

    Bobo The OTHER one! THE “RIGHT” ONE!!! says:==that guns are ok because doctors accidentally kill more patients.

    YES!…..THATS what he said. Hard to believe I know—but just look. Ha, ha.

    Then Mike N continues the confabulation with:
    “No, no, no having a gun means you are more likely to be killed, didn’t you get the memo?” /// because all you need to do with inconvenient facts is to deny them. Its the conservative mind set in full bloom.

    YES!…..THATS what he said. Hard to believe I know—but just look. Ha, ha.

    Gwad then adds that background checks are already mostly done and complaints otherwise are lies. Well….if that is the case, then what is wrong with the proposed legislation? All it should do in Gwad’s world is catch the illegal transfers as good people are already compliant and under the thumb of this repressive law: “I’ll move on, because in the end, this is Yet Another Strawman that will only affect law abiding citizens and have no effect whatsoever on criminals or the crimes they commit.” //// Yes, indeedy. And criminals also murder people so why have a law against that? And the Chinese still import kiddie toys with lead paint, so why have a law against that? And so on with every law that there is. Knock, knock……. is anyone home????

    YES!…..THATS what he said. Hard to believe I know—but just look. Ha, ha.

    Sea Lawyer actually provides relevant crucial info and says:
    2/1/2013 at 5:11 am

    I believe your position that “assault” weapons, really any rifle where a new round is automatically chambered, is from page 55 of the opinion. Scalia’s flow of reasoning is predicated on them being unusual within general society. So if evidence showed that semi-automatic rifles were not in fact unusual, then I’m guessing that you would need some other rationale to claim the power to ban them. /// I haven’t read the opinion. Always a good thing to do if one is going to understand constitutional issues. Yes, “unusual within genereal society”==lots of wiggle room there. Easy to say whatever and just treat the owners of AR/multiple AR’s as outside by definition? Someone above said ownership was by 80 Million. Thats 25% of the population. Easy to think that any number below 50% is not general but I’m sure Scalia has his own interpretation…. as the body count goes up and up.

    jp==I think I got your comment wrong. On re-read, I think you showed concern for the hood rats. I kneejerked in the opposite direction. Sorry bout that.

    Orchidcup does raise a legitimate concern: “If the government bans certain kinds of firearms, there will be a black market for them. There already is.

    Look at how well drug prohibition works. Alcohol prohibition was a total failure.” /// But I would argue/hope that while there are similarities between drug addiction and gun ownership, they have some key differences? I’ve made the argument before so just look at Australia and England. Mass murder by guns so they outlawed them. Murderes by guns still continue, Mass Murders by guns down to zero. ALL THE MANY VARIABLES–and yet multiple REAL WORLD examples that when guns are many, deaths from guns are many AND when guns are fewer, death from guns are fewer. Just that simple.

    Bobo, the other Right One, ignores the REAL WORLD examples above and wants to focus on mental health and society. I’m all for a more robust social safety net for those who are depressed and need help. Even those who have fixated on guns as the answer to anything. But again==England and Australia have the same mental health issues/video games/culture of foreign oppression/wars for lost glory and so forth. When they got rid of the guns, the gun violence went down.

    Freedom to be shot by a gun rings a bit hollow to me.

    The fantasy that you can protect yourself with a gun is just obviously…. wrong. Look at the FACTS—not the arguments.

    Yea, verily.

  9. jpfitz says:

    Bobbo I’m most times in your corner. No need to apologize, the deaths from hand guns in this country is the curse of drug addiction and gang violence. The brown citizens, that is to include all shades of brown to black, are being systematically killed off without fanfare or town square meetings aired on CNN. Sometimes I wonder if the PTB are accept the fate of the poor being killed and maimed , to reduce the brown male population. Yea, I know I sound paranoid, but the MSM has proven me right lately. Who will save the middle class white children from scary looking AR type rifle. This gun talk about assault rifles is futile, ban those weapons and we still have all the illegal hand guns in the hoods. riflrs and

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Yea verily jp==but what long term goal to be worked for will more likely work?

      Everyone Armed, or all those who want to be.

      or,

      No guns.

      Seems to me “only” the latter position has the possibility of working. It has already PROVEN to work in Australia and England. So–only the extra added crazy in America has to be overcome. It will take time. Sooner we start, the sooner sanity can call USA a rest stop as well.

      Problems that take 20-3–40 years to develop could easily take twice as long to fix.

      Logic. Humanity. No Fantasies.

  10. RS says:

    Some numbers and some perspective:
    In gun-ban UK, violent face-to-face crime actually EXCEEDS US crime rates and gun crimes are higher than when the ban was initiated.

    over 1/2 the shooting deaths in the US are suicides, suicides globally are not correlated to gun availability, only the methods change.

    studies in major US cities show that 60-85% of the VICTIMS of shootings are themselves criminals

    There are only about 1000 gun deaths by “crimes of passion” in the US each year and 80% of them are by people with a history of spousal violence, 60% by people with criminal records who can not legally own a gun. That’s about 200 women killed by men allowed to own guns. Last year, 5000 women drank themselves to death.

    There were 465 accidental gun deaths last year, lowest rate on record.

    21 school children were killed by madmen invading their schools last year.

    34 school children were killed by their school buses last year.

    For the years 2009-2011, no school children were killed by madmen shooters at their schools. In those same 3 years over 70, mostly elementary school children, were run over by their school buses.

  11. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    jpfitz says:
    2/1/2013 at 1:26 pm

    Bobbo you see only part of the picture. /// I don’t think so. No one responds to all parts all the time.

    An ax is a deadly weapon. // True, everything potentially is.

    An ax is a life saving tool when needed to cut wood to create warmth to fend off hypothermia. // Yeah, yeah……

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Bobbo I can go on and on. /// This issue of “intended purpose” vs country comparisons vs popular sentiments on the issue are well covered in this thread. But… you post sanely, so I will repeat here incase you cruise by.

    Military fighter jets have one purpose, to kill or destroy an enemy, along with the effect of killing innocents in the wrong place at the wrong time. /// They are used for recon, intelligence gathering, border patrol, intimidation, intercept, and so forth…. or I can accept the premise for whatever faulty logic you wish to follow up with.

    Bobbo, it’s the intended action or premeditation that makes almost any object deadly.
    I don’t know how to make this any clearer. A plastic keyboard could be a deadly weapon.

    Yes, I’ll agree handguns are only good for killing humans, I reiterate that a person has to have intent, aim and then pull a trigger. If all the guns are taken away from law abiding citizens in this country, then only criminals will have the guns. //// EXACTLY===MAKING THEM EASIER TO CATCH AND JAIL.

    And of course the military and law enforcement will have guns to serve and protect. /// Only when and where as needed. All part of “gun culture” that is not the high water mark.

    Civilian rifles are used for plinking at targets or killing game for food.

    If your in the woods and stranded, without food and without technology most likely you can build a shelter and find water. Now say you had a .22, you could kill some rabbits and have a meal. If you had a deer rifle you’d have food for as long as the meat stays fresh. Heck, you could even make a blanket with the deer skin. See where this is going. /// Yep==11,000 murdered by guns in USA per year and how many starved in the woods from lack of bunny rabbits?

    Lead speeding at supersonic speeds may save your life. /// May? Of course …. DO!! But, as above==add up the pro and cons and you got lopsided statistics showing guns to be more death causing than life saving. Thems the FACTS! I recall the seat belt controversy. Lots of examples of people being thrown clear of their cars. You know: seat belts kill people. …… What do YOU>>>>THINK?

    Or one day in a movie theater some deranged nut-job may take you out. The odds of either scenario happening to you are very large numbers. // Yep. Just apply your statistical analysis to possession of guns and murder/accidents by guns. They are inherently dangerous and life threatening. Foolish to argue for their pervasive propinquity.

    Yea, verily.
    Reply

    • jpfitz says:

      Jimmy Cricket bobbo, the illegal hand guns in the urban ghettos ARE THE PROBLEM. Not the everyday man.
      Taking away my second amendment right is unconstitutional.

      If a felon, let the background checks make sure the intended buyer goes away empty handed.

      If a criminal wants a hand gun he/she will get one come hell or high water. Black market bingo sale.

  12. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Forgot to add jp, and other similarly situated including those apposite, it is always FUN and informative to note someone who agrees/disagrees with you on many subjects and then you find agreement/disagreement on some subject.

    The best working assumption, whether true or not, is that said person is probably not much more crazy than you are–so why the anomoly in thinking/concluding?? What value system or idea is being followed in the conflict with the normal and expected?

    jp–you often agree with me so what do you think might be the disjunction?

    Is it because I’m being:
    pragmatic
    existential
    evangelical
    anti-theist
    drooling liberal (shut up Pedro)

    So far…. I’d conclude I’m just being a whole lot more logical than you are being all to the goal/problem/issue of how to make a society polluted by guns more safe for the population as a whole. Your position, as best as i can determine, is more emotional. Its right there in your argument. “Guns should be legal because axes are.” Kinda stupid…..no personal insult intended.

    Just look……. and think.

    • jpfitz says:

      Hey hey hey, don’t be misquoting me while being all congenial. An ax is legal…so, guns should be legal? You know me pretty well because my passion spills out only on a few DU posts. I’m pro-gun and ant-war at the same time. I believe in helping the humans who are unfortunate to have been born into poverty. And that’s where the illegal hand guns that need to be restricted and swept off the street. Then change the penal system so that soft drugs are not a sentence to a life in and out of the slave quarters. Making a few white people wealthy.

      If the above can be accomplished in a couple of generations the gun violence would drop to only white nut jobs with their scary looking AR-15 committing acts of violence.

  13. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    jpfitz says:
    2/2/2013 at 7:59 pm

    Jimmy Cricket bobbo, the illegal hand guns in the urban ghettos ARE THE PROBLEM. /// Whats the matter jp? Can’t juggle three balls at one time? I can’t either but I can handle an issue with 10-11-12 components. You just take one component at a time, and NOT POST as you do as if one component controls all the others. Such guns are a problem, I agree. Those urban ghettos get their guns from the same sources that legal gun buyers in the suburban ghettos do.

    Not the everyday man. /// Sorry. You are Factually WRONG. Such simplistic WRONG thinking from an intelligent person is a tell that emotions have taken over. Accidents in the home is an everyday man problem. The school shootings and work place violence are everyday man problems. The movie theaters massacres are everyday man problems.

    Taking away my second amendment right is unconstitutional. /// Read the thread. Nothing proposed is unconstitutional. We could and should go even further and would still be constitutional such as banning semi automatics. I think the clip capacity should be zero. Sport hunters don’t need more than single action–give the deer a chance. But the closer we get to “no guns” I know the howling increases.

    If a felon, let the background checks make sure the intended buyer goes away empty handed. /// He should be arrested.

    If a criminal wants a hand gun he/she will get one come hell or high water. Black market bingo sale. /// Australia and UK show that is not true. Of course, on day one that will be the case… but its over time that the no gun policy would have effect. THAT and a change to our culture at the same time that a gun is not seen as the answer to any specific problem like being lost in the woods?

    Say jp: would you rather go into the wood with an AR and a 100 drum magazine, or a gps unit?

    • jpfitz says:

      I will say you are fending off a slew of posts at the same time.

      Your more likely to crash in an airplane that get shot in one of these white youth rampage shootings. Unless your a mailman. And the mailman is an everyday man. Except for Sunday.

      As a teenager and young adult, I plinked a German made single shot .22 rifle. I owned a semi-auto Ruger .22 and a lever action 30-06 Winchester. Skeet shooting at the sand pits was like shooting pigeons. I enjoy target shooting. Take away the guns and only goons will have them.

      The UK and AUS are different stories. Less populations, and there were less guns. The US has what? 300 million guns maybe more. And the pia resistance… Guns, Bibles and the Constitution. The South will rise again if pushed.

      I’d rather take an AK(since I’ll never get to shoot a real AK) and hit the woods, blow off some steam.
      GPS, I..don’t need no..stinkin..G…P…Ssss.

  14. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    Well jp–yes, I am being congenial. Why not…. you are. Nothing intentionally dishonest or manipulative going on here at my end. I think I stated what you said, not a copy and paste of the exact words, only idiots do that failing to understand the point being made? Was there something in the rephrasing that made you more clearly see your own position?

    I agree that gun position is quite separate from any war position which again is different from capital punishment which again is different from pro life vs pro choice which is different from vaccinations which is different from regulating pesticides in the fields……………. and yet they all have areas of overlap.

    Always——compare and contrast. Grasp as much of the subject as you can. Recognize that absence of proof of one hypothesis is not proof of another. That metaphors always break down at some point.

    You said: “If the above can be accomplished in a couple of generations the gun violence would drop to only white nut jobs with their scary looking AR-15 committing acts of violence.” /// More likely gun violence with handguns would come from all races more closely related to other social factors. Long Rifles easier to detect and capture. Several generations? Maybe. Probably depends on when the new generation of 3D printed Lasers become available?

    You say: “Your more likely to crash in an airplane that get shot in one of these white youth rampage shootings.” /// Is that true? besides that—I can CHOOSE not to fly in airplanes. Can’t choose not to get shot. Very tedious this false comparison to things of utility: axes, doctors, cars, now airplanes. Its all the same: those things have a useful utility that the great majority do want. Guns have a minimum utility that most people are against. See the difference?====Now, stop using a stupid argument over and over. You might get confused with Liberty Loser.

    You say (again even in our short exchange): “Take away the guns and only goons will have them. //// Yes, making them easier to catch and jail.

    You say: “The UK and AUS are different stories. Less populations, and there were less guns.” /// I assume you are guessing but not to worry: Both Australia AND UK had similar to Newtown MASS SHOOTINGS and the public demanded guns be removed from society. Now most cops don’t carry guns either and society makes their fetish a taboo. Don’t tell me with a little effort the same thing won’t happen in USA. We are different stories, and much the same story.

    STILL–ITS WHAT END GOAL IS MOST LOGICAL. For best safety: everyone with guns, or no one with guns? Which view could “possibly” work?

  15. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    Here’s an ironic/telling/poetic justice/sad incidence:

    Chris Kyle, the deadliest sniper in U.S. history, shot and killed at rifle range:

    http://wfaa.com/news/local/rough-creek-189536271.html

    Thats what guns do.

    • jpfitz says:

      He had a bounty on his head. The book he wrote and not keeping it on the down low were bad decisions. I don’t know much more. What a shame, well…live by the sword die by the sword.

      Condolences to his family.

  16. jpfitz says:

    Bobbo, you wrote “The best working assumption, whether true or not, is that said person is probably not much more crazy than you are–so why the anomoly in thinking/concluding?? ”

    Yes, I’ll agree that crazy is more fun. I could be considered the weird Uncle, or no, not weird… but different, OK weird. I have my ups and downs though. Our humanity creates differences and similarities, our gang here at this web portal are all individuals who share similar ideals. We may not agree in the end, that’s not what matters. It’s the belonging to something, no matter how angry or polarizing the conversation.

    • bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

      You get a sense of “belonging?”……. Well, applying the rule I advocated above…. yes and no.

      My first step on any “new” question. Define the terms:

      Belong: Verb
      (of a thing) Be rightly placed in a specified position: “learning to place the blame where it belongs”.
      Be rightly classified in or assigned to a specified category.

      Sense of Belonging: 2. Acceptance as a natural member or part: a sense of belonging.

      Close: might be “sense of community.”

      Well, I guess that idea is in the ballpark, horseshoe wise but I’m not much of a massachist to think I’m part of a group that “accepts” much at all of the conservative mindset. So, ok, I feel an affinity with those who argue on point and rationally even in disagreement. I’d give names, but don’t want to offer a sense of belonging. Ha, ha. “I’m not a joiner.” Can you belong to something you won’t join?

      • jpfitz says:

        So many words bobbo, not much sentiment or emotions coming through your verbiage. I think we are friends. Granted separated by 3000 miles, but still friends. You are on the west coast, yes? I’m on the hated elitist north east coast. Still we disagree about the topic of scary AR’s or any weapon that fires projectiles. I respect you for your position, we need your input to offset the unnameable numerous conservative and nut-jobs that makes DU enjoyable and frustrating. I still like to believe that we belong to a meta form of a round table.

        It’s always a pleasure to banter with you bobbo. Have a good Sunday, are you gonna watch the “big game” tonight? I’m not much of a football fan, too much like war and the idea of a whole nation gathering round the tele to watch men bash the shit out of each other isn’t my cup of tea. Although I played Ice Hockey in high school, I despised the fights, partly because I am 6’3″ and am a great skater and puck handler scoring many goals. I became a target of the goons on the ice to intimidate me. Nowadays I still skate and am almost ashamed to say the sport I do enjoy watching is tennis and womens indoor volleyball.

        • bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

          Well, jp…..you are really putting yourself out there. I will respond as honestly as I can: we all want, need, seek friendships/bonds/community as and where we can. Even with a face on a volleyball if that is all there is on an isolated island. That is what homo sapiens is: a social creature. Its good you recognize this drive in yourself. I recognize it in me.

          but we aren’t friends in any way that I recognize or relate to.

          Define friendship: someone you would lend $5 to and not care if its paid back. Ha. ha.

          But again, I would have to agree any dialectic exchange on a blog does create…… does create…… what to call it? How about a basis for friendship? Over a number of months, a number of posts that don’t result in unrepaired hurt feelings of one sort or another and some other association would eventually result in a friendship and no doubt one of us $5 short.

          I don’t think before this thread we have ever bantered with one another. Passing rim shots. Opening gambits not returned?

          Banter: Noun
          The playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks.
          Verb
          Talk or exchange remarks in a good-humored teasing way: “the men bantered with the waitresses”; “a bantering tone”.

          hmmmm….I wouldn’t call this thread bantering either. Neither of us is teasing. You have been non reactive to my unnecessarily brusk characterizations and puny insults. Thats good will and intelligence, not teasing. Always a good thing: separating thinkers from reactors.

          Sports like art like life is something that should be engaged in rather than observed. That is the lesson of Ode on a Grecian Urn. An idea like an earwig that once perceived can worm its way into your appreciation for life. Having played tennis and volleyball and skied and various other sports myself, I will hesitate on a point or two when channel surfing, but it doesn’t hold my interest. The goons chased me out of Pop Warner Football when I determined if they wanted to fight, they should put on gloves, otherwise they were cheats. Almost more an issue of “honesty” than the darkside of the sport. Cheats are cheats are goons, just as you say. I get much the same reaction talking to the conservatives on this blog.

          They cheat….. and i think on many/some level….. not honest.

          So jp…. I welcome your banter. I already agree with myself, so your thoughtful disagreement would be a real boon to me.

          Can you disagree with me and still be thoughtful?….. but I become a bit goonish.

          Yea, verily.

  17. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    FRAMING AN ISSUE

    Interesting (to me) I woke up with this idea floating in my head, and this is directly responsive to jp just above and so many others:
    I also think guns are “just a tool” and its the people that are killing people. I personally don’t care about “guns” one way or the other. I never grew up around them as a kiddie and I didn’t grow up in America and the gun culture.

    I come at the gun question not as loving them or afraid of scary looking AR’s. No, I come at this subject simply from one of logic, causation, and FACTS as to “Why are So many people, DISPROPORTIONATE to any other otherwise similar country in the world, being murdered?” Could be lots of things–all of them mentioned: drugs, ghetto crime, creeping socialism, excessive militarism, violent cartoons, lead paint poisoning, team spirit, no enough cookies at recess… the whole floatilla: too much of certain things, too little of certain other things, HORRORS: a combo of many of the above.

    I do the analysis.

    Looks like the presence of guns.

    So…. “still” >>> would the issue of too many murders be solved with MORE or LESS guns? OR EVEN: is the number of gun deaths justified or otherwise worth that carnage for some offsetting value? Is America such a wonderful place that living here with the gun violence clearly better than living in Australia or England? I can’t say that it is.

    So… logic, causation, and FACTS tell me guns should be banned.

    So… a logical, rational person not thinking otherwise by personal defect, personal experience/upbringing/religion/paranoia or whatever you have should work towards that goal dealing with the obstacles that are always present for any social change. And it does take time. But what else is success except progress towards a worthwhile goal?

    In fact, right now, I’m more concerned about whether or not Obama (how is it “his” decision anyway?—not that Congress isn’t in the same position) is going to approve the tar sand transfer pipeline once again giving lip service to leading the country in rationally addressing carbon pollution.

    Once again, in fact, I can protect myself “some” from gun violence by not having a gun in my house even though I was broken into a few nights back. But I can’t avoid breathing air.

    See how that works?

    • jpfitz says:

      Tar sands, what a waste. Obama appears to be in bed with big oil along with the insurance companies. I had hope for a great president in January of 08, now I lost all hope in Ubama. Being black or at least of a mixed race, made some history. Barry is a Dino and drone crazy. I’d swear he’s just Bush jr. smarter and dark skinned.

      My state governor now thinks fracking is just dandy. He’s a Cuomo and a crook, just like his dad. He’ll pass legislation that’ll ruin NYC drinking water. Why not, the country will have to eventually import water in bottles. No more somewhat free tap water.

  18. jpfitz says:

    Sorry to hear about your privacy and space being broken into.

  19. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Brazen bastard. Walked into the very room I was asleep in and stole my computer monitor, pair of pliers, and checks that were 30 years old. I’m just happy I didn’t wake up.

    I have considered going to bed strapped now, but who is to guarantee I wouldn’t shoot myself in my sleep, or reveal the gun to an intruder as I turn over for comfort?

    So–I’m going to hidden web cam my house to get their picture…oh yeah, they took house and car keys as well…… so I expect them to come back.

    Its too easy to be displeased with Obama. I mean… just look at the Pukes putting self interest above country as they have done. And as far right as Obama was willing to go, maybe that even turned out to be a good thing? Ha, ha….. stupid pukes, pissed on a good deal because it wasn’t their fantasy. Check mark next to being “pragmatic.”

    And… truth is…he’s still better than ANY Republican on the scene then or now….. so what you gonna do? Be a fantacist yourself?

  20. Nitroneo says:

    You want to take my rights away without due process, see you in court.

    http://youtu.be/c5l3TVHduAE

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      I stopped watching at “I’m not here to quote statistics…..”

      That pretty much says it all.

      NOTHING proposed violates the constitution. You pass a law…. THATS your due notice.

      “without due process” does NOT mean any law you don’t like.

      This whole thread, and thats what you come up with?

      Sad.

      • Nitroneo says:

        You stopped watching because of your limited intellect, unfortunately (like many) you don’t understand.

        I feel sorry for you Bobbo, your so hurting inside that trolling forums is the only way you can feel good about yourself.

        Unfortunately since you were unable to understand the difference between Federal Limitations and State Powers as designated by the Bill of Rights, the US Constitution, State Constitutions, and Civil Rights Laws, it may be prudent for you to spend some time on furthering your education.

        I do wish you would have spent more time watching, (and learning) as it would have been the beginning of your turnaround and acceptance into society.

        Best Regards,

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          Gun rights are not absolute.

          All Bill of Rights are limited as offset by the conflict created by others.

          Its those who think one of the Amendments takes precedent over all the others that is the societal outcast.

          Simple stufff.

  21. MikeN says:

    Thandiwe suggested that his reason for even purchasing the gun he used in the shootings was to enforce beliefs he’d developed about white people during his later years as an anthropology major at the University of West Georgia.

    We need to ban liberal professors.