In a hushed auditorium, harshly lit for television, the families and neighbors of Sandy Hook’s lost children told visiting legislators Monday night to take a stand against gun violence, not always prescribing how.

“You are our elected officials,” said Nicole Hockley, who last held the hand of her 6-year-old son, Dylan, as he lay in a small casket. “It is your duty to create and enforce the laws that protect and help us, using common sense, morals and a sense of humanity to guide you…”

The bipartisan legislative task force created in response to the shooting deaths of 20 first-graders and six staff members at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14 filled the wide stage of Newtown High School…

The hearing was like none at the State Capitol in Hartford. It couldn’t be, not in a town where a firehouse is newly decorated with 26 copper stars, one for each victim. It is a place where most anything can remind residents of what happened on Dec. 14.

David Wheeler, whose six-year-old son, Benjamin, was killed, said the legislators must find a way for authorties to better match information on the emotionally disturbed against a registry of homes with guns. No authority apparently ever challenged Nancy Lanza for keeping an AR-15 and other firearms in a home with a son who had emotional problems.

“It doesn’t matter to whom these weapons were registered. It doesn’t matter if they were purchased legally,” Wheeler said. “What matters is that it was far too easy for another mentally unbalanced, suicidal person who had a violent obsessions to have easy access to unreasonably powerful weapons.”

To gun owners who ask that their Second Amendment rights not be infringed by asking them to give up certain rifles and high-capacity magazines, Wheeler asked about aother right articulated by the Founding Fathers, the inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

“The liberty of any person to own a military-style assault weapon and a high-capacity magazine and keep them in their home is second to the right of my son to his life — his life, to the right to live of all those children and those teachers,” Wheeler said. “Let’s honor the Founding Fathers and get our priorities straight.”

What are your priorities?

  1. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    jpfitz says:
    2/1/2013 at 1:26 pm

    Bobbo you see only part of the picture. /// I don’t think so. No one responds to all parts all the time.

    An ax is a deadly weapon. // True, everything potentially is.

    An ax is a life saving tool when needed to cut wood to create warmth to fend off hypothermia. // Yeah, yeah……


    Bobbo I can go on and on. /// This issue of “intended purpose” vs country comparisons vs popular sentiments on the issue are well covered in this thread. But… you post sanely, so I will repeat here incase you cruise by.

    Military fighter jets have one purpose, to kill or destroy an enemy, along with the effect of killing innocents in the wrong place at the wrong time. /// They are used for recon, intelligence gathering, border patrol, intimidation, intercept, and so forth…. or I can accept the premise for whatever faulty logic you wish to follow up with.

    Bobbo, it’s the intended action or premeditation that makes almost any object deadly.
    I don’t know how to make this any clearer. A plastic keyboard could be a deadly weapon.

    Yes, I’ll agree handguns are only good for killing humans, I reiterate that a person has to have intent, aim and then pull a trigger. If all the guns are taken away from law abiding citizens in this country, then only criminals will have the guns. //// EXACTLY===MAKING THEM EASIER TO CATCH AND JAIL.

    And of course the military and law enforcement will have guns to serve and protect. /// Only when and where as needed. All part of “gun culture” that is not the high water mark.

    Civilian rifles are used for plinking at targets or killing game for food.

    If your in the woods and stranded, without food and without technology most likely you can build a shelter and find water. Now say you had a .22, you could kill some rabbits and have a meal. If you had a deer rifle you’d have food for as long as the meat stays fresh. Heck, you could even make a blanket with the deer skin. See where this is going. /// Yep==11,000 murdered by guns in USA per year and how many starved in the woods from lack of bunny rabbits?

    Lead speeding at supersonic speeds may save your life. /// May? Of course …. DO!! But, as above==add up the pro and cons and you got lopsided statistics showing guns to be more death causing than life saving. Thems the FACTS! I recall the seat belt controversy. Lots of examples of people being thrown clear of their cars. You know: seat belts kill people. …… What do YOU>>>>THINK?

    Or one day in a movie theater some deranged nut-job may take you out. The odds of either scenario happening to you are very large numbers. // Yep. Just apply your statistical analysis to possession of guns and murder/accidents by guns. They are inherently dangerous and life threatening. Foolish to argue for their pervasive propinquity.

    Yea, verily.

    • jpfitz says:

      Jimmy Cricket bobbo, the illegal hand guns in the urban ghettos ARE THE PROBLEM. Not the everyday man.
      Taking away my second amendment right is unconstitutional.

      If a felon, let the background checks make sure the intended buyer goes away empty handed.

      If a criminal wants a hand gun he/she will get one come hell or high water. Black market bingo sale.

  2. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Forgot to add jp, and other similarly situated including those apposite, it is always FUN and informative to note someone who agrees/disagrees with you on many subjects and then you find agreement/disagreement on some subject.

    The best working assumption, whether true or not, is that said person is probably not much more crazy than you are–so why the anomoly in thinking/concluding?? What value system or idea is being followed in the conflict with the normal and expected?

    jp–you often agree with me so what do you think might be the disjunction?

    Is it because I’m being:
    drooling liberal (shut up Pedro)

    So far…. I’d conclude I’m just being a whole lot more logical than you are being all to the goal/problem/issue of how to make a society polluted by guns more safe for the population as a whole. Your position, as best as i can determine, is more emotional. Its right there in your argument. “Guns should be legal because axes are.” Kinda stupid… personal insult intended.

    Just look……. and think.

    • jpfitz says:

      Hey hey hey, don’t be misquoting me while being all congenial. An ax is legal…so, guns should be legal? You know me pretty well because my passion spills out only on a few DU posts. I’m pro-gun and ant-war at the same time. I believe in helping the humans who are unfortunate to have been born into poverty. And that’s where the illegal hand guns that need to be restricted and swept off the street. Then change the penal system so that soft drugs are not a sentence to a life in and out of the slave quarters. Making a few white people wealthy.

      If the above can be accomplished in a couple of generations the gun violence would drop to only white nut jobs with their scary looking AR-15 committing acts of violence.

  3. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    jpfitz says:
    2/2/2013 at 7:59 pm

    Jimmy Cricket bobbo, the illegal hand guns in the urban ghettos ARE THE PROBLEM. /// Whats the matter jp? Can’t juggle three balls at one time? I can’t either but I can handle an issue with 10-11-12 components. You just take one component at a time, and NOT POST as you do as if one component controls all the others. Such guns are a problem, I agree. Those urban ghettos get their guns from the same sources that legal gun buyers in the suburban ghettos do.

    Not the everyday man. /// Sorry. You are Factually WRONG. Such simplistic WRONG thinking from an intelligent person is a tell that emotions have taken over. Accidents in the home is an everyday man problem. The school shootings and work place violence are everyday man problems. The movie theaters massacres are everyday man problems.

    Taking away my second amendment right is unconstitutional. /// Read the thread. Nothing proposed is unconstitutional. We could and should go even further and would still be constitutional such as banning semi automatics. I think the clip capacity should be zero. Sport hunters don’t need more than single action–give the deer a chance. But the closer we get to “no guns” I know the howling increases.

    If a felon, let the background checks make sure the intended buyer goes away empty handed. /// He should be arrested.

    If a criminal wants a hand gun he/she will get one come hell or high water. Black market bingo sale. /// Australia and UK show that is not true. Of course, on day one that will be the case… but its over time that the no gun policy would have effect. THAT and a change to our culture at the same time that a gun is not seen as the answer to any specific problem like being lost in the woods?

    Say jp: would you rather go into the wood with an AR and a 100 drum magazine, or a gps unit?

    • jpfitz says:

      I will say you are fending off a slew of posts at the same time.

      Your more likely to crash in an airplane that get shot in one of these white youth rampage shootings. Unless your a mailman. And the mailman is an everyday man. Except for Sunday.

      As a teenager and young adult, I plinked a German made single shot .22 rifle. I owned a semi-auto Ruger .22 and a lever action 30-06 Winchester. Skeet shooting at the sand pits was like shooting pigeons. I enjoy target shooting. Take away the guns and only goons will have them.

      The UK and AUS are different stories. Less populations, and there were less guns. The US has what? 300 million guns maybe more. And the pia resistance… Guns, Bibles and the Constitution. The South will rise again if pushed.

      I’d rather take an AK(since I’ll never get to shoot a real AK) and hit the woods, blow off some steam.
      GPS, I..don’t need no..stinkin..G…P…Ssss.

  4. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    Well jp–yes, I am being congenial. Why not…. you are. Nothing intentionally dishonest or manipulative going on here at my end. I think I stated what you said, not a copy and paste of the exact words, only idiots do that failing to understand the point being made? Was there something in the rephrasing that made you more clearly see your own position?

    I agree that gun position is quite separate from any war position which again is different from capital punishment which again is different from pro life vs pro choice which is different from vaccinations which is different from regulating pesticides in the fields……………. and yet they all have areas of overlap.

    Always——compare and contrast. Grasp as much of the subject as you can. Recognize that absence of proof of one hypothesis is not proof of another. That metaphors always break down at some point.

    You said: “If the above can be accomplished in a couple of generations the gun violence would drop to only white nut jobs with their scary looking AR-15 committing acts of violence.” /// More likely gun violence with handguns would come from all races more closely related to other social factors. Long Rifles easier to detect and capture. Several generations? Maybe. Probably depends on when the new generation of 3D printed Lasers become available?

    You say: “Your more likely to crash in an airplane that get shot in one of these white youth rampage shootings.” /// Is that true? besides that—I can CHOOSE not to fly in airplanes. Can’t choose not to get shot. Very tedious this false comparison to things of utility: axes, doctors, cars, now airplanes. Its all the same: those things have a useful utility that the great majority do want. Guns have a minimum utility that most people are against. See the difference?====Now, stop using a stupid argument over and over. You might get confused with Liberty Loser.

    You say (again even in our short exchange): “Take away the guns and only goons will have them. //// Yes, making them easier to catch and jail.

    You say: “The UK and AUS are different stories. Less populations, and there were less guns.” /// I assume you are guessing but not to worry: Both Australia AND UK had similar to Newtown MASS SHOOTINGS and the public demanded guns be removed from society. Now most cops don’t carry guns either and society makes their fetish a taboo. Don’t tell me with a little effort the same thing won’t happen in USA. We are different stories, and much the same story.

    STILL–ITS WHAT END GOAL IS MOST LOGICAL. For best safety: everyone with guns, or no one with guns? Which view could “possibly” work?

  5. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

    Here’s an ironic/telling/poetic justice/sad incidence:

    Chris Kyle, the deadliest sniper in U.S. history, shot and killed at rifle range:

    Thats what guns do.

    • jpfitz says:

      He had a bounty on his head. The book he wrote and not keeping it on the down low were bad decisions. I don’t know much more. What a shame, well…live by the sword die by the sword.

      Condolences to his family.

  6. jpfitz says:

    Bobbo, you wrote “The best working assumption, whether true or not, is that said person is probably not much more crazy than you are–so why the anomoly in thinking/concluding?? ”

    Yes, I’ll agree that crazy is more fun. I could be considered the weird Uncle, or no, not weird… but different, OK weird. I have my ups and downs though. Our humanity creates differences and similarities, our gang here at this web portal are all individuals who share similar ideals. We may not agree in the end, that’s not what matters. It’s the belonging to something, no matter how angry or polarizing the conversation.

    • bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

      You get a sense of “belonging?”……. Well, applying the rule I advocated above…. yes and no.

      My first step on any “new” question. Define the terms:

      Belong: Verb
      (of a thing) Be rightly placed in a specified position: “learning to place the blame where it belongs”.
      Be rightly classified in or assigned to a specified category.

      Sense of Belonging: 2. Acceptance as a natural member or part: a sense of belonging.

      Close: might be “sense of community.”

      Well, I guess that idea is in the ballpark, horseshoe wise but I’m not much of a massachist to think I’m part of a group that “accepts” much at all of the conservative mindset. So, ok, I feel an affinity with those who argue on point and rationally even in disagreement. I’d give names, but don’t want to offer a sense of belonging. Ha, ha. “I’m not a joiner.” Can you belong to something you won’t join?

      • jpfitz says:

        So many words bobbo, not much sentiment or emotions coming through your verbiage. I think we are friends. Granted separated by 3000 miles, but still friends. You are on the west coast, yes? I’m on the hated elitist north east coast. Still we disagree about the topic of scary AR’s or any weapon that fires projectiles. I respect you for your position, we need your input to offset the unnameable numerous conservative and nut-jobs that makes DU enjoyable and frustrating. I still like to believe that we belong to a meta form of a round table.

        It’s always a pleasure to banter with you bobbo. Have a good Sunday, are you gonna watch the “big game” tonight? I’m not much of a football fan, too much like war and the idea of a whole nation gathering round the tele to watch men bash the shit out of each other isn’t my cup of tea. Although I played Ice Hockey in high school, I despised the fights, partly because I am 6’3″ and am a great skater and puck handler scoring many goals. I became a target of the goons on the ice to intimidate me. Nowadays I still skate and am almost ashamed to say the sport I do enjoy watching is tennis and womens indoor volleyball.

        • bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:

          Well, jp… are really putting yourself out there. I will respond as honestly as I can: we all want, need, seek friendships/bonds/community as and where we can. Even with a face on a volleyball if that is all there is on an isolated island. That is what homo sapiens is: a social creature. Its good you recognize this drive in yourself. I recognize it in me.

          but we aren’t friends in any way that I recognize or relate to.

          Define friendship: someone you would lend $5 to and not care if its paid back. Ha. ha.

          But again, I would have to agree any dialectic exchange on a blog does create…… does create…… what to call it? How about a basis for friendship? Over a number of months, a number of posts that don’t result in unrepaired hurt feelings of one sort or another and some other association would eventually result in a friendship and no doubt one of us $5 short.

          I don’t think before this thread we have ever bantered with one another. Passing rim shots. Opening gambits not returned?

          Banter: Noun
          The playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks.
          Talk or exchange remarks in a good-humored teasing way: “the men bantered with the waitresses”; “a bantering tone”.

          hmmmm….I wouldn’t call this thread bantering either. Neither of us is teasing. You have been non reactive to my unnecessarily brusk characterizations and puny insults. Thats good will and intelligence, not teasing. Always a good thing: separating thinkers from reactors.

          Sports like art like life is something that should be engaged in rather than observed. That is the lesson of Ode on a Grecian Urn. An idea like an earwig that once perceived can worm its way into your appreciation for life. Having played tennis and volleyball and skied and various other sports myself, I will hesitate on a point or two when channel surfing, but it doesn’t hold my interest. The goons chased me out of Pop Warner Football when I determined if they wanted to fight, they should put on gloves, otherwise they were cheats. Almost more an issue of “honesty” than the darkside of the sport. Cheats are cheats are goons, just as you say. I get much the same reaction talking to the conservatives on this blog.

          They cheat….. and i think on many/some level….. not honest.

          So jp…. I welcome your banter. I already agree with myself, so your thoughtful disagreement would be a real boon to me.

          Can you disagree with me and still be thoughtful?….. but I become a bit goonish.

          Yea, verily.

  7. bobbo, neutering gun nuts with their own lack of ammunition says:


    Interesting (to me) I woke up with this idea floating in my head, and this is directly responsive to jp just above and so many others:
    I also think guns are “just a tool” and its the people that are killing people. I personally don’t care about “guns” one way or the other. I never grew up around them as a kiddie and I didn’t grow up in America and the gun culture.

    I come at the gun question not as loving them or afraid of scary looking AR’s. No, I come at this subject simply from one of logic, causation, and FACTS as to “Why are So many people, DISPROPORTIONATE to any other otherwise similar country in the world, being murdered?” Could be lots of things–all of them mentioned: drugs, ghetto crime, creeping socialism, excessive militarism, violent cartoons, lead paint poisoning, team spirit, no enough cookies at recess… the whole floatilla: too much of certain things, too little of certain other things, HORRORS: a combo of many of the above.

    I do the analysis.

    Looks like the presence of guns.

    So…. “still” >>> would the issue of too many murders be solved with MORE or LESS guns? OR EVEN: is the number of gun deaths justified or otherwise worth that carnage for some offsetting value? Is America such a wonderful place that living here with the gun violence clearly better than living in Australia or England? I can’t say that it is.

    So… logic, causation, and FACTS tell me guns should be banned.

    So… a logical, rational person not thinking otherwise by personal defect, personal experience/upbringing/religion/paranoia or whatever you have should work towards that goal dealing with the obstacles that are always present for any social change. And it does take time. But what else is success except progress towards a worthwhile goal?

    In fact, right now, I’m more concerned about whether or not Obama (how is it “his” decision anyway?—not that Congress isn’t in the same position) is going to approve the tar sand transfer pipeline once again giving lip service to leading the country in rationally addressing carbon pollution.

    Once again, in fact, I can protect myself “some” from gun violence by not having a gun in my house even though I was broken into a few nights back. But I can’t avoid breathing air.

    See how that works?

    • jpfitz says:

      Tar sands, what a waste. Obama appears to be in bed with big oil along with the insurance companies. I had hope for a great president in January of 08, now I lost all hope in Ubama. Being black or at least of a mixed race, made some history. Barry is a Dino and drone crazy. I’d swear he’s just Bush jr. smarter and dark skinned.

      My state governor now thinks fracking is just dandy. He’s a Cuomo and a crook, just like his dad. He’ll pass legislation that’ll ruin NYC drinking water. Why not, the country will have to eventually import water in bottles. No more somewhat free tap water.

  8. jpfitz says:

    Sorry to hear about your privacy and space being broken into.

  9. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Brazen bastard. Walked into the very room I was asleep in and stole my computer monitor, pair of pliers, and checks that were 30 years old. I’m just happy I didn’t wake up.

    I have considered going to bed strapped now, but who is to guarantee I wouldn’t shoot myself in my sleep, or reveal the gun to an intruder as I turn over for comfort?

    So–I’m going to hidden web cam my house to get their picture…oh yeah, they took house and car keys as well…… so I expect them to come back.

    Its too easy to be displeased with Obama. I mean… just look at the Pukes putting self interest above country as they have done. And as far right as Obama was willing to go, maybe that even turned out to be a good thing? Ha, ha….. stupid pukes, pissed on a good deal because it wasn’t their fantasy. Check mark next to being “pragmatic.”

    And… truth is…he’s still better than ANY Republican on the scene then or now….. so what you gonna do? Be a fantacist yourself?

  10. Nitroneo says:

    You want to take my rights away without due process, see you in court.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      I stopped watching at “I’m not here to quote statistics…..”

      That pretty much says it all.

      NOTHING proposed violates the constitution. You pass a law…. THATS your due notice.

      “without due process” does NOT mean any law you don’t like.

      This whole thread, and thats what you come up with?


      • Nitroneo says:

        You stopped watching because of your limited intellect, unfortunately (like many) you don’t understand.

        I feel sorry for you Bobbo, your so hurting inside that trolling forums is the only way you can feel good about yourself.

        Unfortunately since you were unable to understand the difference between Federal Limitations and State Powers as designated by the Bill of Rights, the US Constitution, State Constitutions, and Civil Rights Laws, it may be prudent for you to spend some time on furthering your education.

        I do wish you would have spent more time watching, (and learning) as it would have been the beginning of your turnaround and acceptance into society.

        Best Regards,

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

          Gun rights are not absolute.

          All Bill of Rights are limited as offset by the conflict created by others.

          Its those who think one of the Amendments takes precedent over all the others that is the societal outcast.

          Simple stufff.

  11. MikeN says:

    Thandiwe suggested that his reason for even purchasing the gun he used in the shootings was to enforce beliefs he’d developed about white people during his later years as an anthropology major at the University of West Georgia.

    We need to ban liberal professors.