The U.S. war in Iraq has cost $1.7 trillion with an additional $490 billion in benefits owed to war veterans, expenses that could grow to more than $6 trillion over the next four decades counting interest, a study released on Thursday said.

The war has killed at least 134,000 Iraqi civilians and may have contributed to the deaths of as many as four times that number, according to the Costs of War Project by the Watson Institute for International Studies at Brown University.

When security forces, insurgents, journalists and humanitarian workers were included, the war’s death toll rose to an estimated 176,000 to 189,000, the study said.



  1. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Complete waste of money. In fact, even criminal. Iraq was TOTALLY CONTAINED and under our thumb. Very silly waste of money that even the Neo Cons recognize as they don’t bring BushtheRetard out on the campaign trail. He’s tainted BS.

    ………and my fact for this thread is: “There are more people alive today than have ever died.”

    There ya go.

    • funny the evil internet , wikipedia and others seems
      to think 107 billion have ever lived and 7 billion are
      alive today.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        I agree. That “fact” has always seemed suspicious to me……..but I read it on the internet.

        But “always willing to admit my faults and learn:”

        First linked fact of this thread: The Poop while Argentinian was born to parents who were both from Italy. The ruby slippers don’t fall far from the (shoe) tree.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        The fun thing about a fact vs an opinion is that facts can be checked on the internets. I found the same numbers you quote using this link.

        http://scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fact-or-fiction-living-outnumber-dead

        I love facts. Fun things to learn.

        the link says it is doubtful the Population will again double to 13 Billion, raising lots of interesting questions. What will stop the hooman growth curve? How will the ponzi scheme called society be altered in a steady state or declining population? What vector will most likely cause a double digit decline in population in leas than one generation…. and so forth.

        thanks for playing.

  2. dusanmal says:

    Article stating “The war has killed at least 134,000 Iraqi civilians” is obvious Islamist/Progressive propaganda. Most of that number were active enemy combatants and supporters. And that (plus the admitted number of insurgents killed [which typically represents the number of foreign insurgents acting on Iraq ‘s territory]) is the gain: we killed over 10000 people willing to sacrifice their lives to fight us. On their territory. Considering the damage 20 of them made when acting on US territory and considering that out of 10000+ at least 1% would made it through to here… we saved more American lives and property and economy by fighting on their turf than spent. Order(s) of magnitude more. The only problem was that politicians again meddled in military action and made it less efficient than it could have been. If true and full strength have been unleashed, indeed more innocent Iraqi would have died but even more insurgents and helpers would have been eliminated and our losses would be lesser and expenditure lesser. That is the lesson. If you go to war, go full force, not proportional force. That lesson should have been learned from the times of Turkish invasion of Europe times… (While European forces prepared for chivalrous “warring” on scheduled terms, Turks invaded their camp over night, in the storm and killed them unprepared… No one called “unfair” or could have had… It is time to understand that war is war, not political BS).

    • jaebee says:

      Reality check: There were 19 hijackers, not 20. Fifteen of them were from Saudi Arabia while the others were from the UAE, Lebanon, and Egypt. 0 of them were from Iraq.

      And if your country was invaded and occupied tonight you can be damn sure people would be willing to die and fight.

      One person’s insurgent or terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. Certainly you should know that as you seem like a right-wing idiot straight out of the Reagan era. I bet you remember that time when we dedicated the Columbia space shuttle launch of 1982 to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan (you know, who would later become the Taliban). Ah yes, short term memory.

    • tcc3 says:

      You got some data to back up that claim? The numbers do vary depending who you ask.

      No one reputable disputes that there have been non combatant civillian deaths and that they number in the tens of thousands.

  3. noname says:

    IRAQ is on a headlong effort of self-preservation to gain a nuke because of GWB lies! IRAQ learned U.S. wouldn’t have invaded IRAN if IRAN had nukes!

    The months before GWB invaded IRAQ, IRAQ did not pose any threat to U.S. Now, both IRAN and IRAQ are more of a threat, then the months before GWB invaded!

    GWB only invaded because of Hussein’s feeble and unsuccessful assassination attempt in 1993 on his GWB father! There was no national need to invade, the invasion was personal!

    When republicans are in the White, this shit just keeps happening!

    Republican evils & lies have supported:
    Brutal authoritarian dictators-
    • Haiti’s Jean-Claude “Baby Doc” Duvalier
    • Philippines’ Ferdinand Marcos.
    Supported white supremacist governments-
    • South Africa in its efforts to suppress the country’s growing anti-apartheid movement.
    Funded and armed right-wing
    • South America “death squads” that rampaged through El Salvador and Nicaragua, massacring government foes and innocent civilians alike.
    Sent lethal weaponry to-
    • Islamic governments of Iran and to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, when Iran and Iraq were at war
    • Secretly sent arms to the Iranian, breaking laws and getting engulfed in arms for hostage scandal.

    There is so much more, but just too little time….

  4. Ah_Yea says:

    No.

  5. deowll says:

    One of the expenses Obama is willing to cut is benefits to vets and their families.

    • deowll says:

      Need to make an addendum: I always thought the Iraq war was a mistake because I never believed the lie about weapons of mass destruction just as I thought every congress critter that voted to let a potus go to war at will should have been removed from office, tarred and feathered and exiled.

  6. Reverse Engineer says:

    Dividing $1.7 trillion by Iraq’s approximately 31 million people would be enough to give each and every one of them over $54,000. That’s nearly thirteen times their per capita GDP, which could buy a lot of Big Macs and Levis. Meanwhile, we’re cut, cut, cuttin’ here…

  7. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Douche Animal in a tour de force stupidity that even
    Louie Gohmert would be proud to pander says:
    3/14/2013 at 7:42 pm

    “……. Considering the damage 20 of them made when acting on US territory and considering that out of 10000+ at least 1% would made it through to here… we saved more American lives and property and economy by fighting on their turf than spent.” //// When prompted to do so can you even remember that 15 of the 19 911 Terrorists came from Saudi Arabia and NONE came from Iraq?

    I men really Douche….. how stupid can you be??? Dismal is a shining light you should follow. I recommend the smallest size loofa you can find so as not to further damage your brain. Maybe a cucumber…. its softer.

    It “un-Mercan” to be so factually wrong uniformly as you are.

    See that Right Wing Nuts?—I call Douche Animal for being just exactly that and I quote what he said that was wrong and give the actual facts. Shake the sand our of your vaginas and give it a try.

  8. dave m brewer says:

    We should not fight in other countries civil wars. This are civil wars!!! Wars against oneself… It’s not war war against the world or us. They are fighting against themselves.

    I hope O-Dumb-shit knows the difference.

    If these towel heads strike against us or the world. (Which they are doing.) Drop the fucking A-bomb on them. I’ll wake up to a fresh cup of coffee in the morn and they will be vapor turds. Blow them all up…men, women and children. Especially the children, because they are tomorrow’s soldier/ terrorist.

  9. Chris Mac says:

    prop·er (prpr)

    If you want something done properly, only North America can do it.

    see delusion
    de·lu·sion
    noun \di-ˈlü-zhən, dē-\

  10. BuzzMega says:

    George Bush has managed to kill more innocent Americans than the terrorists did on 911.

    Correction: it really was Dick Cheney.

    • msbpodcast says:

      And Henry Ford killed more Americans than Hitler ever did by enabling idiots to hurtle through the country side at speeds that they can’t control.

      • Tim with a 429 and raging hard-on says:

        Speed doesn’t kill. Dimble-dicks in the left lane just meandering along congesting traffic so no one can manuever appropriately do.

        Always maximizing the potential contact time by driving right along next to someone and ensuring everyone else does the same. These kinds of people usually want to cross three lanes (which they have congested) at the last second to make their off-ramp. Thermodynamically, fluid mechanically, and statistically two molecules just hanging out in close proximity will eventually interact — even something as unlikely as hydrogen fusion at atmospheric temperature and pressure. And by *interact* I mean, collide. Which is bad. Unless it’s three derps side by side on a six lane hiway because that’s just fuck’n funny.

        Traffic is not slow because it’s heavy; It gets heavy because it’s slow (it only takes a few derps to gum up the pipes.). The analogy is *viscosity*.

        Something else that really does contribute to road deaths are these mindless roadblocks which force people to contribute to and encounter congestion along secondary and un-familiar routes.

        Alcohol?? *Impairment* is not relevent, I guess; Some arbitrary number based on pH as a one size gets every derp {and, by *every* I mean *very few* are, in fact, *impaired*} is fraudulently applied.

  11. Chris Mac says:

    now kindly send me your ip so i can end your simcity

  12. Hmeyers says:

    If we hadn’t invaded Iraq, other countries in the Middle East and the Iran/Pakistan/Indonesia area would have felt like the status quo of turning a blind eye to terrorists was ok.

    The invasion of Iraq frightened Libya, Iran, Syria plus got several “on the fence” countries like Saudi Arabia/Yemen/etc. to commit solidly against harboring/tolerating/encouraging terrorist elements.

    Prior to invading Iraq, most of the world and a lot of Europe questioned our “backbone”. Our credibility was at risk.

    Iraq had to be dealt with because they perpetually violated no fly zones and thumbed their nose at us. To be taken seriously in a post-911 world, Saddam had to go as an example.

    How could any country take our “let’s stamp our terrorism” message seriously with Saddam standing behind us and making gestures why we talked?

    No doubt many dislike this observation, but that was the situation at the time … The terrorists at the time were hiding behind the national sovereignty of several Middle Eastern nations. We needed to get these countries on the same page as us or be perpetually at-risk of US citizens getting attacked abroad.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

      Hmyers who evidently enjoys keeping his head up Bill Crystals ass continues the mantra by saying…..

      1. Prior to invading Iraq, most of the world and a lot of Europe questioned our “backbone”. Our credibility was at risk. /// You mean invading and vanquishing Pakistan wasn’t enough?

      Iraq had to be dealt with because they perpetually violated no fly zones and thumbed their nose at us. /// You mean once a month another plane would cut and run to Libya for storage so it wouldn’t be shot down? That kind of nose thumbing???

      To be taken seriously in a post-911 world, Saddam had to go as an example. /// Yeah, because toppling the Government of Afghanistan in 2-3 months was but a trifle to all the war lords, military huntas, and dictators of the area.

      Hmyers. Your worst post. Completely unhinged from reality. I have wondered for some time how you offered the occasional balanced post regarding your generally too conservative/aka Neo Con political positions. Ha, ha. Just rub the right bone, and the crazy comes out.

      Same as it ever was.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

        Oops–Para 1 should also be Afghanistan. I was thinking Paki for some other reasons I didn’t loop back to. I apologize. I do need to slow down a bit. Too many ideas/threads/issues. How to pick and choose between all my children?

  13. Yet what are you going to do
    According to Canadian Mark Steyn “America Stands Alone”
    The rest of the world either panders to the Islamofacists that attacked the US and exports to the US.
    Its a sad world.
    Yet as Micheal Moore pointed out “did they look at a map ?”
    Why Iraq and not Saudi Arabia of which most the 911 hijackers came from ?
    On top of that why have not American lawmakers not proceeded with the Canadian Keystone Pipeline with the same speed they have ( Obama Reid Pelosi) in raising taxes.
    There is no clear direction by these ?? alleged leaders on either side . Its no vacation out there and we have a bunch of old men / ideologues/ corrupt politicians and incompetents ruling the roost.

  14. Dallas says:

    Bush W thinks the $2,200,000,000,000 cost was a worthy cause because Saddam insulted his daddy.

    The dead and maimed Americans as well as hundreds of thousands of dead civilians were unfortuneate casualties.

    The rise of Iran because of the removal Hussein as a counterbalance in the region was also unfortuneate.

    Nobody insults a daddy.

  15. bobbo, Dim Sum in a glorious example of how deep a stupid hole can be says says:

    In selected parts for who needs to read the screed even once:

    1. Sorry for trying to stick to a topic but then you go off about how population explosion is somehow evidence that George Bush is some kind of retard. /// No, only a crazy person would make that connection.

    You even seem to suggest that the this war in Iraq/Afghanistan was all his fault. WHAT THE F*K?! /// Yes, it was ALL HIS FAULT…unless you want to add in whatever elements of the 911 attackers you want to include. Yes again, a total F*K over of the American people totally supported for political reasons by those in Congress (aka Hilary and why I think she is scum. Deomocrat Scum. Female Scum) who voted in favor of the President Can Make War as He Decides to Do Resolution. BushtheRetard was more than a mere Meat Puppet on this issue as others touch upon above. Its hard for a Born Again Coke Head to deal with Daddy Issues. You post as if you have a few of your own?>>>Ha, ha. Just kidding. The set up was there.

    Imagine what the World/Region would think of America if in addition to having the most capable military machine we also used it intelligently?===I know. You Neo Cons never think that far.

    Silly Hoomans.

  16. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Close Follower of Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Alexandeer the Great, Cesar, ...etc says:

    As a drooling Liberdrool far to the Left of Obama who is nothing except a Moderate Republican bought and paid for by corporate interests because he rationally doesn’t want to be assassinated in office, of course, I am anti War for the stupidity it represents.

    Let me present my “Fuck You” policy for international domination: Using our Worlds Best Military in a surgical manner instead of staking ourselves down in forlone wastelands around the world and being bleed like a stuck pig.

    IN AND OUT. NO STAYING OVER NIGHT. Let the Bitches look forward to our next visit rather than complain we don’t make them breakfast.

    IN AND OUT. Like we should have done in Afghanistant. Negotiate our demands clearly with a fitting time demand: Give us Ben Ladin or we will invade you. Then do it. THEN GET OUT!!! The pieces left over can then cluster fuck around until they stumble onward towards their self crafted destiny. They can choose democracy, dictatorship, or tribalism. USA should not care what an overnight Fuck does. That is the nature of FREEEEEEEEEDOM. If 10 years later they do more shit we don’t like, we go with our well rested and equiped military we go IN AND OUT again.

    Fucking stupid Neo Cons. World Power in their grip and like the monkey grabbing bananas in a jar, they can’t let go long enough to get even more. Stupid. Just plain stupid. CUT THE GORDEON KNOT===GO IN AND OUT. Just like that train conductor said to do in Baltimore. Stick it in fast, then pulls it out slow…….Honey, you fuck just like a train conductor. Ha, ha. Oops, did another tangent throw me off course?

    Same as it always was.

  17. Mr Ed says:

    Was it worth it? No. Never.

  18. Pmitchell says:

    The war would have been very much worth it if the politicians had not gotten involved and essentially handed Iraq to the Iranian regime, establishing a free democratic society in the middle east would have changed the world forever for the better and would have eventually brought an end to islamic terror and state sponsored terror organizations

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Close Follower of Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Alexandeer the Great, Cesar, ...etc says:

      PM–assuming you mean Iraqian Regime, THERE WAS NO SUCH REGIME!!! Thats been the theme song there ever since “hostile activities have ended” there.

      Are you really this ignornant, manipulative, or just that short a memory/attention span so that you just repeat the last thing you heard….and all you listen to is Faux Spews.

      You are second on the list with HMyers==right wing retards who manage from time to time to post something intelligent/half way not insane, but then go ahead and pitch there tent in the right field==right on top of a Big Pile of Elephant Dung.

      BTW–watching “Sicko” for the first time, its on Independent Film Channel right now. Wow. Michael Moore is totally revealing the lie we suffer from regarding the horrors of Socialize Medicine.

      Foolish Willfully Ignorant Hoomans. Choose your masters wisely.

      • Tim, robbing your septic tank to make nitrate-based explosives says:

        “T’was a mile-square pit full of elephant shit and me without any rye…”

        And those very same right-wings and your lib-tard Bush-with-a-tan cup-pissing-to-play-team have introduced the concept of bat brown (white) nose fungus to keep myself and others out of our natural bunkers. So, that hammer you hear upon your septic tank in the middle of the night, is I; Unless it’s your team comming to take you away where the butterflies are all the time with birds and bees and basket-weavers (and I don’t mean Wiccans) sit on the walls and smile. He He Ha Ha.

        • Tim, at the hammer store says:

          There is no flowers and trees because both your stabbing-intercourse teams bought stock in monsanto and killed them — nice lawn, though.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Jr Culture Critic says:

          Ha. You are approaching Gonzo involvement there. Spooking to read what you start with just having read Japan has authorized the use of recycled human feces as meat.

          Funny THEY would publish such a piece even while admitting it sounds like a hoax…..Sometimes people won’t believe their own intelligence. Always funny.

          Funny YOU would write about septic tank when its the great minority of people who have ever used one….although tellingly…. alot in the South and Trailer Parks.

          Ha, ha.

          • Tim, Screaming 'get your damn dirty hands off my crap!' to the community developement goon says:

            Ah, yes. It is a very sad thing that we are literally pissing and pooping and then tossing the nutrients and minerals away down the drain — By decree!

            I had relatives in rural Ky. with an outhouse (privy) until the mid 80’s. It was a wonderful three-seater with a tin of lime and a large selection of, um, ‘reading material.’

            I absolutely loved that thing. Nowadays, you loose your land without *proper* and inspected connection to *services* and the slaves and their dirt are nutrient deficient, sickly, and susceptible to disease because of it.

            Sanitation is for health? Ironic it doesn’t exactly work that way over a properly maintained dry-dump privy. Water is our most precious natural resource and look how we are forced to use it.

            What of *true* green recycling? Gone are the days of wood ashes, egg-shells and well-limed humus for the garden.

            The really sick thing to me is that idea of *lab-meat.* Where, in this faux green-regime, are the amino acids supposed to come from, Pray tell?

            Think a scat-burgur is gross? Before they liquified grandma, she never tasted just as good as authentic donky-dong sandwiches.

            I’m afraid it really is a ‘Soylent Green’.

          • Timoteo, whom is confused over a query of J. Hansen+Gonzo says:

            def Gonzo Rhetoric:

            An effective use of language utilizing tactics made popular by Hunter S. Thompson, including, but not limited to, first-person narrative journalism reflecting upon the reporter’s personal experiences, emotions, or exaggerations in an attempt to persuade an audience.

            No. I’m not registering any tickle to any junctions trying to interface with that tripe.

            Otherwise; Just remember that one well-placed-uncle-Ted-slathered-in-Aqua-Velva(tm) spoils the whole vat.

            Molon Labe!

      • Pmitchell says:

        Bobbo do you have a job or do you just hang out on blogs all day and irritate people and whine about fox news.

        • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Jr History Nut says:

          Yes and no.

          Pros and Cons.

          Substance and Illusion.

          Facts and Opinions.

          Time and Overtime.

          Yea, verily.

        • Mextli says:

          I wouldn’t walk within a half mile of him. He is radioactive crazy!

    • msbpodcast says:

      You keep referring to The War as if there is only one.

      Both the Afghan war and the Iraq war were entirely unnecessary.

      In Afghanistan the taliban were crying to the rest of the Arab world that they should be fed. The Arab world wasn’t having none of it until the rubble starting shifting from airborne ordinance. If we had been patient the taliban would have handed the west Bin Laden’s head on a plate. But nooo….

      Iraq has been an unmitigated disaster. The US kicked ass and the military portion of the campaign went all too well. The problems and expense in both blood and treasure came in trying to mold the resulting sand pile.

      The next war should come quickly, be won quickly, be left behind quickly, with a whole bunch of drones remaining to occupy (and harras any opposition.)

      We don’t have the demographics or the fertility to take the Chinese approach of turning occupied territories into suburbs (that’s the approach they’ve taken with Tibet and it worked so well that they’ve applied it to all of the countries that they have had any dealings with,) and using the sheer mass of people to smother any remaining problems.

  19. If only this big amount of money are given to the poor and less fortunate especially the kids, this will surely go a long way.

    • dave m brewer says:

      Why do we always have to give it to the kids? Kids grow into adults. Give it to the adults!

      You are an adult longer than you are a kid. Being a kid is a short period of your life. Kids are invincible, adults aren’t.

  20. Uncle Patso says:

    “Was It Worth The Cost?”

    No.

    Should have done it after Kuwait, or not at all.

    • Rick says:

      We should have left Kuwait alone too. It was their fault for angering Saddam by slant drilling his oil fields.
      Let muslim wars be fought by muslims.

  21. t0llyb0ng says:

    airborne ordinance would be ordnance.

    countryside, halfway, pinhead & warlords are all one word.

    It was worth it to Prick Cheney.  He’s real pleased with himself.

    Saddam had Iraq all bottled up for us.  We should have left that arrangement be.  Sure, it was an ugly little bottle for the citizenry to be cooped up in, but that was none of our damn business.

    Invading Afghanistan without an exit strategy was nincompoopery of the highest order.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Jr History Nut says:

      One step Higher: winning the war and not leaving whether a plan existed or not.

      Golden opportunity and then as time passed all the Chicken Hawk leaders in and out of the military rathered to squarder lives and money rather than admit they had stepped in it. So……you make up a date some time off like “End of 2013” which has no more justification to it than “Right Now” and when you finally leave, then you say it was according to plan.

      WhaddabunchofBS. Any yet that is our Leadership from Top to Bottom. Puke and Dumbo. Obama got elected in large part by being anti-stupidwar, then he won and sold out. I gave my reason why earlier. That boy ain’t stupid, he’s not pro war—-connect the dots.

      And yes—Cheney retires with Millions from Halliburton. More dots===practically on top of one another.

  22. Ken says:

    The part where Bush was in charge was not worth it. He was horrible and evil and blah blah blah. Now that Obama, the greatest president, no, the greatest *man* since Jesus, is in charge, every penny spent since the day he took office has been worth it.

  23. Anonymous Coward says:

    Of that $1.7 trillion, how much would have been spent by the USA in any event if those same forces had instead stayed on US soil at their bases doing normal military training during that time?

    The US military is NOT cheap to operate even when doing nothing in particular beyond normal training exercises in the US mainland.

    Besides, if we didn’t occasionally attack other countries, how could we use the military recruiting slogan, “Travel the world. Meet new peoples. Then kill them and blow their shit up.”? 😉

  24. Gildersleeve says:

    Until someone can explain what the world gained out of it (especially why it hasn’t resulted in cheaper oil, although that would still not justify it), you have to say no, it wasn’t worth it. But, I don’t think we’re *supposed* to know what the explanation is. Maybe our children will know when they’re grown. But not us.

  25. Cassandra says:

    Mistakes were made. I wholly agreed w/that truth…

    – Katherine Harris the Grotesque
    – SCOTUS’ awarding of the Presidency
    – The watch dogs that allowed 9/11
    – Tora Bora
    – The Invasion of Iraq w/Colon Powell’s compliance
    – Creation of Homeland Security

    …and on and on and on.

    I could EASILY blame W & Co. (They didn’t call him ‘Dick’ for no reason) but We are the People. Where were We? Huddled in our bubble, guarded w/vicious finger-pointing.

    Our world is in a swirl. W or Obama – WTF? Being right isn’t stopping the wrong.

    Maybe we should learn by the past. Get a clue from our Ancestors and Forefathers. Learn from the stinging Education from acidulous past mistakes. Learn to make decent decisions for the Future of US and our children. Perhaps escape the political philosophies and realize that there is NO ONE WAY to think or act. Conciliation and compromise are hallmarks of this country, this life and ultimately our happiness.

    To know that We are not going to get out of this unless We get together. A House divided can not stand.

    that’s the forecast…and now over to sports..

  26. Hey Zeus! says:

    Was it worth the cost? NO! And not just no, but HELL NO!!!

    Let’s also not forget the LIVING victims too.

    We can play could-have would-have should-have scenarios all day long. But in the end all that ever happened was a tragic attack on some New York City landmarks resulting in a catastrophic loss of some pretty good people. Not much different than what our own negligence might have caused given our own breed of domestic terrorists or even just a busted gas line! (And still, I see no one wanting to ban airplanes.)

    This whole mess should never have escalated into a nebulous war that still has no end in sight. Troops never should have been sent to Iraq or Afghanistan unless those countries were gearing up to send their troops to the U.S.

    Our troops are clearly reserved for DEFENSE of our country – not it’s PROMOTION! And all of us seem to have lost sight of that fact.

    Some say we did it for the oil while others say we did it for more covert reasons like taking back a Stargate (yes! it’s an actual and somewhat credible claim). Some even say we had to do it so we wouldn’t look weak. But it’s all bullshit. And now, even more good men and women are dead. And for what? A dead religious zealot who had too much money who wasn’t even in either of the countries we attacked?!

    I blame religion for the entire mess the world is in. I particularly blame people like the Pope and Jack Van Impe for NOT preaching more TOLERANCE!

    But then just reading this blog and I’m reminded that those people may not really be the problem. They may only be symptoms of a much bigger problem – American culture really is arrogant!

  27. noname says:

    Silly people.

    It depends on who you ask!

    Remember this is AMERICA, where it’s ONLY the number votes that you can buy that count!!

    If you ask the 99%, the answer is NO!

    If you ask the 1%, the answer is Yes, but hell Yes there is MONEY to be MADE!!!

    Consider the 10 companies profiting the most from war::

    10. United Technologies (UTX) — aircraft, electronics, engines
    Arm sales: $11.6 billion, total sales: $58.2 billion
    Gross profit: $5.3 billion, total workforce: 199,900

    9. L-3 Communications (LLL) — electronics
    Arm sales: $12.5 billion, total sales: $15.2 billion
    Gross profit: $956 million, total workforce: 61,000

    8. Finmeccanica — aircraft, artillery, engines, electronics, vehicles and missiles
    Arms sales, $14.6 billion, total sales: $24.1 billion
    Gross profit: $ -3.2 billion, total workforce: 70,470

    7. EADS — aircraft, electronics, missiles and space
    Arm sales: $16.4 billion, total sales: $68.3 billion
    Gross profit: $1.4 billion, total workforce: 133,120

    6. Northrop Grumman (NOC) — aircraft, electronics, missiles, ships, space
    Arm sales: $21.4 billion, total sales: $26.4 billion
    Gross profit: $2.1 billion, total workforce: 72,500

    5. Raytheon (RTN) — electronics, missiles
    Arm sales: $22.5 billion, total sales: $24.9 billion
    Gross profit: $1.9 billion, total workforce: 71,000

    4. General Dynamics (GD) — artillery, electronics, vehicles, small arms, ships
    Arm sales: $23.8 billion, total sales: $32.7 billion
    Gross profit: $2.5 billion, total workforce: 95,100

    3. BAE Systems — aircraft, artillery, electronics, vehicles, missiles, ships
    Arm sales: $29.2 billion, total sales: $30.7 billion
    Gross profit: $2.3 billion, total workforce: 93,500

    2. Boeing (BA) — aircraft, electronics, missiles, space
    Arm sales: $31.8 billion, total sales: $68.7 billion
    Gross profit: $4 billion, total workforce: 171,700

    Also Boeing, received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

    1. Lockheed Martin (LMT) — aircraft, electronics, missiles, space
    Arm sales:$36.3 billion, total sales: $46.5 billion
    Gross profit: $2.7 billion, total workforce, 123,000

    And CONSIDER the companies that TAKE, TAKE and only TAKE then GIVE nothing back AND pay NO TAXES!!!

    Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS,

    General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States over the past five years and, thanks to clever use of loopholes, paid no taxes.

    Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

    Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year, received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

    Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

    ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2006 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

    • orchidcup says:

      I worked for ConocoPhillips as a geologist subcontractor for several years.

      The oil and gas industry may be the number one employer of human resources that are former convicted felons and illiterate high school dropouts.

      ConocoPhillips is providing a public service by keeping the slaves busy and distracted so they don’t rape little kids and vote for Democrats.

      They deserve a tax break. Why should the wealthiest persons in the country carry the burden of taxation when their human resources are earning a living wage?

      Let them eat cake.

      • CrankyGeeksFan says:

        Wal-Mart is the largest private employer in the U.S. I try not to shop their. Some of their employees just look bombed out especially the overnight stocking shift (at the Wal-Mart near me, at least).

        That & other large retail & grocery store chains along with fast food restaurants are large employers of the “slaves” that you mention. The oil & gas industry jobs pay higher though. Still, what noname is writing about is the overall bottom line of these companies that should be paying a positive tax not getting money back – a negative tax. Also, look at how much these companies get from the federal government.

  28. gs says:

    We need to stop waging these wars and finally do something sensible like no wars with North korea and Iran and instead we need to immediatly divert military production and R&D spending world wide (we need new treaties like what happened after WWI where all navies were essentialy scrapped, reduced by half) and we need to put some of this money into the development of advanced nanotechnologies (assemblers, disassemblers, relicators, medial nanotech) so we can have our own manufacturing base, we can cure people of any disease process, we can make old people young again, by using medical nanotech to fix and repair all our cells……if we don’t do this, most of the baby boomers llok like they are going to retire in povery, most people are going to work all thier lives (no retirement), most of the problems in the world boil down to scacity of items (how capitalism works). We have created a system in North America where we have this huge military machine/culture that essentialy is the only employer/manufacturer left in North America, no wonder we wage so many wars…China, India are arming for future wars, we have to break the cycle or die/starve in future conflicts when we could be building a great future using nanotech!!

    • orchidcup says:

      Nanotech will be developed into a sophisticated weapons technology that mimics a bacteria or virus pandemic that targets a narrow field of DNA profiles.

      Entire classes or groups of people can be annihilated efficiently without collateral damage and it will look like an Ebola outbreak.

      The future of nanotechnology is bright.

    • So what says:

      The direct result of those treaties following WWI was WWII.

      • Rick says:

        Hitler was the cause of WWII, not the treaty. All you need is one psychotic man with ambition…

        We elected ours in 2000.

  29. orchidcup says:

    Each United States service member who has died in Iraq or Afghanistan and been identified by the DoD:

    Faces of the Dead

    This is a photo record of the loss of human resources.

  30. CrankyGeeksFan says:

    There was no Al-Qaida in Iraq before the invasion in 2003.

    Libya which still cost a few billion dollars didn’t have anywhere near the number of extremists it would get.

    In Syria, Al-Qaida is among the strongest rebel groups.

    Is the U.S. following the problem or leading the problem.

    • noname says:

      Neither, it’s creating the problem!

      That’s what paranoids do, imagine then create problems from nothing! Their illness creates delusions from a guilty & corrupt conscience!

      You can’t tell me that Nixon, Dick Chenney, Janet Napolitano or the prosecutors investigating Reddit co-founder Aaron Swartz … are not sickly paranoid!

      Our government sees plots in every window, it cannot focus its efforts into productively leading people! We the people are becoming fearful of our now paranoid, corrupt government!

      Orwellian politics of gerrymandering and insider money influences had limited effective people participation in an active democracy.

      Democracy is a needy and attention demanding system! If we become too busy working, now that every household member has to work to survive, what time and attention do we have left to give to our self-government?

      Our employers have now become our overlords. They have become too big to fail. Bigger than our government. Our employer now calls the shots in Washington.

      To be an effective self-governing democracy, requires informed DECISION MAKING by its people! It requires free flowing information systems that don’t disrupt, constrain or corrupt information flows! However, print news is dying, investigative journalism is dying, and a once freewheeling internet is now owned and controlled by elites ….

      Bottom Line, we get the government we deserve! That is the government our founders gave us! They gave us a system that requires active input and not just voting from everyone!

      If we feel we deserve better, then we better “work” at making our government “work” for us and not our employers.

      • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Jr History Buff says:

        Insightful and well said.


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