The National Government are pushing a Cyprus-style solution to bank failure in New Zealand which will see small depositors lose some of their savings to fund big bank bailouts, the Green Party said today.

Open Bank Resolution (OBR) is Finance Minister Bill English’s favoured option dealing with a major bank failure. If a bank fails under OBR, all depositors will have their savings reduced overnight to fund the bank’s bail out.

“Bill English is proposing a Cyprus-style solution for managing bank failure here in New Zealand – a solution that will see small depositors lose some of their savings to fund big bank bailouts,” said Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman.

“The Reserve Bank is in the final stages of implementing a system of managing bank failure called Open Bank Resolution. The scheme will put all bank depositors on the hook for bailing out their bank.

“Depositors will overnight have their savings shaved by the amount needed to keep the bank afloat.

“While the details are still to be finalised, nearly all depositors will see their savings reduced by the same proportions.

Discuss.



  1. Mr Diesel says:

    If you think it can’t happen in the USA, think again. It happened in 1933, when banks were closed for four days and gold was revalued and looted from safe deposit boxes. It can happen again at any time.

    If you have any of the gold coins today they can still take it away.

    http://infowars.com/update-on-80-million-in-seized-gold-coins-judge-rules-they-belong-to-the-u-s-government/

    • dave m brewer says:

      No the can’t… dumb-ass

      That’s because the 1933 $20 piece was never issued to the public. They were stolen from the mint.

      The government did not raid safety deposit boxes in the banks.

      Hey chicken-shit-little, stop publishing lies in here. You should be banned from this site!!!! We want facts even if it not to our liking.

      (I didn’t need to go to the article to know you were posting lies.)

      • dave m brewer says:

        That’s… No they can’t. Didn’t know if a dumb-ass like you could figure that one out…

        • Mr Diesel says:

          Pretty harsh comments. I clearly said that if you had any of the gold coins and linked to an article that explained the story of the gold coins.

          If you don’t believe it can happen here (as it already did before) it is probably because you have your head too far up your ass. Pull it out once in a while.

      • Bailout Bob says:

        Minor Distinction dave,

        Executive Order 6102 required all persons to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, all but a small amount of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve, in exchange for $20.67 (equivalent to $371.10 today[3]) per troy ounce. Under the Trading With the Enemy Act of 1917, as amended by the recently passed Emergency Banking Act of March 9, 1933, violation of the order was punishable by fine up to $10,000 (equivalent to $180 thousand today[3]) or up to ten years in prison, or both. Most citizens who owned large amounts of gold had it transferred to countries such as Switzerland.

        • dave m brewer says:

          Hey dumb ass… they didn’t take like a bank robber… they didn’t go door to door looking for gold… The Government tells you what you can do and what you can’t. Why are you surprise. It’s like saying you can’t have 100 cases of beer while drive from county to county. They will pick you up as bootleggers. You guys think the Government is always out to get you. You guys a a bunch of pussies. Hey if you had any of those coins your a THEIF and should be taken out and shot!!! Nobody likes a THEIF!!!

          As for that ex-order… When you can buy gold from the government for less that it is on the world market… that what people started to do… Buy gold with paper money… send it over sea and buy silver come back to the USA and cash the silver in for more gold… (actually the could turn around and buy silver and make money on that.) Gee you may be a dumbs ass, but the government isn’t. That’s why the US didn’t mint that many silver coins in the early 1800’s. You all thinks it’s some kind of government conspiracy… but in truth fact, they are smarter than you when it comes to the world market.

          That’s why it so hard to back your money with precious metals. That’s why Nixon (it wasn’t Roosevelt) who took us off the gold standard. We were never on the silver standard. But some tried back in the 1800’s to move us from the gold standard to the silver standard. Doing that they would make big bucks… smart people made it where it didn’t happen.

          Read history dumb asses… and take some economic classes to too. People who don’t know their history will soon be bitten by it.

          That saying… can’t remember the exact wording… remember history so you don’t make the same mistakes again… like WWII… is not true. You need to remember history so you don’t get taken twice. Who cares if the is another WWII… war is a money making thing… brings riches to the people.

          • Mr Diesel says:

            I might be able to take you more seriously if you could spell. I doubt if you troll like rants will gain much traction from those who are more educated than a chipmunk.

            For the unenlightened (Dave M Retard):

            The commonly used expression, “Those who ignore history are bound (or doomed) to repeat it” is actually a mis-quotation of the original text written by George Santayana, who, in his Reason in Common Sense, The Life of Reason, Vol.1, wrote “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” Rooted in the philosophies of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and many others to follow, his biography (1863-1952) and more contemporary interpretations and observations about man and life can be found at Wikipedia by searching for George Santayana. Stanford University online also provides an outstanding and much more detailed background on this important and profound philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist.

            Santayana’s quotation, in turn, was a slight modification of an Edmund Burke (1729-1797) statement, “Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.” Burke was a British Statesman and Philosopher who is generally viewed as the philosophical founder of modern political conservatism.

          • dave m brewer says:

            Hey dumb-ass there are no misspelled words…

  2. Anonymous Coward says:

    “All depositors will be ass raped in a proportion equal to the money they’ve managed to earn and save over the years, instead of spending it immediately, to cover the reckless business decisions and practices of their banks’ officers.”

    No mention of actually punishing said bank officials with prison and fines should the depositors ever be so raped.

  3. Taxed Enough Already Dude says:

    Big Government entitlement hyper environmentalism regulation brought this one, you DemoRepublicans lovers of big government should be proud of your achievements.

    Now bank accounts are public property, what a novel concept…wasn’t that tried before in Russia, Cuba, N Korea and China with great effect?

    • msbpodcast says:

      What does “Big Government entitlement hyper environmentalism regulation” even mean?

      Don’t think that we’ll be all impressed by your stringing together a bunch of polysyllabic words.

      I call BS on TEAD.

      • Ah_Yea says:

        I kinda like the phrase!

        I think I will use it next time I’ve got friends around the coffee table so I can sound smart too!

      • dusanmal says:

        “big government entitlement” = government that behaves as if it is a King and almighty and as if it has rights to manage, direct, shape, force, tax , take,… anything and everything from your life. Entitled Government, not one limited by direct reading of the Constitution.
        “hyper environmentalism” – Government mentioned above which uses scare and excuse of “environment” (and / or “for the children”) to sell, or if that fails force above mentioned meddling.

  4. pedro says:

    the blog’s lefty loons should be busy salivating about these 2 governments

    • stormtrooper 651 says:

      What’s ridiculous is that this fear mongering demagogue from the Green Party (the newest incarnation of the National Socialists) is desperately trying to cook something up against a party genuinely trying to reduce debt and government.

  5. LibertyLover says:

    It’s been bugging me the last few months why the US Government was buying 2 billion rounds of ammo, 2700 APCs capable of withstanding a .50 Cal shot, and 3,000 armored, mobile checkpoints. I couldn’t figure out what they were thinking might be coming down the pike to cause them to need that much stuff.

    Now I understand. If they have plans like that for here, I can see an uprising occurring that would make the US Civil War look like a border skirmish.

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Jr Nobel Prize Winner in Economics fan boi says:

      Loser.

      • Mr Diesel says:

        Funny, I don’t feel like a loser. At lunch my team went to Subway in a Walmart. After lunch I went back and bought some more buckshot rounds and some 45ACP ammo.

        We had talked about what might happen if they try that shit here. There are a lot of people in this country who are not sheeple.

      • LibertyLover says:

        Damn, Booger, clean the shit out of your ears.

        Get Lost!

      • deowll says:

        What do you call a person who says rude and disrespectful things just to try and start a fuss? It used to be troll but now its bobbo.

    • dave m brewer says:

      Yes loser… If you raised your sons and daughters to fire a pond the (USA) public even if we all (WE ALL) banned together and go to DC to take it. You raised a dumb-ass child and it’s your fault.

      I think we need to start right now to teach our children that the current armies are no good and don’t join. The only reason they join now is they can’t make enough money to feed their family. Let’s disarm the arm forces of people. That’s how we do it peacefully. If they start the draft, we stand together and keep our sons and daughters home.

      Todays arm forces are not there to defend our country. It’s their to fight in others civil wars. We can win a WWIII but, we can’t win another countries’ civil war.

    • Cap'n Kangaroo says:

      Do you have a link to the actual story of DHS buying 2700 APCs?

      When I tried to track this story down, I found a LOT of postings and stories about the story, but not the original reporting.

      What I did find was that Navistar Defense received a follow-on contract from the US Navy (for the Marine Corps) to supply 2717 new chassis so the USMC could retrofit their current MRAPs with better off-road ability.

      http://defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4701

      Also from my googling, I was only able to confirm that DHS has 16 MRAPs.

      http://businessinsider.com/homeland-security-serving-warrants-mrap-2013-3

    • Ken says:

      There won’t be much, if any, uprising. 150 years of government schooling has pretty much destroyed any sense of individuality in 95% of the population. The sheep will be sheared with only a bit of bleating and the banksters and politicians will be the richer for it.

  6. orchidcup says:

    On March 6, 2013, United States Attorney General Eric Holder testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee that the size of large financial institutions has made it difficult for the Justice Department to bring criminal charges when they are suspected of crimes, because such charges can threaten the existence of a bank and therefore their interconnectedness may endanger the national or global economy.

    “Some of these institutions have become too large,” Holder told the Committee, “It has an inhibiting impact on our ability to bring resolutions that I think would be more appropriate,” contradicting earlier written testimony from a deputy assistant attorney general who defended the Justice Department’s “vigorous enforcement against wrongdoing.”

    Four days later, Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas President Richard W. Fisher co-authored a Wall Street Journal op-ed about the failure of the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act to provide for adequate regulation of large financial institutions.

    In advance of his March 8th speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference, Fisher proposed requiring breaking up large banks into smaller banks so that they are “too small to save,” ending both Federal Deposit Insurance and Federal Reserve discount window access by larger banks, and requiring disclosure of this lack of federal insurance and financial solvency support to their customers.

    This was the first time such a proposal had been made by a high ranking U.S. banking official or a prominent conservative.

  7. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Jr Nobel Prize Winner in Economics fan boi says:

    FDIC is funded by the banks. It should be maintained if not increased.

    Anybody know?–are the OWNERS (either private individuals or the stock holders) tapped first before the depositors are? I do assume that is the case. Should also be first claw backs of any boneses etc paid out over the previous 5 years.

    Hooman Beings are creatures of fairy tales. See Liberty Loser above and the dogma he repeats ad naseum. But the notion that banks are too big to Prosecute simply isn’t true. Its a fairy tale so fanciful I doubt anyone actually believes it, but then there are folks like Loser…. so who really knows.???

    The TIME TO PLAN===by definition is before the event. Lets plan for Bank Failures since we have done nothing except promote the conditions underwhich they will.

    Reinstitute Glass Steigel. Vote the idiots who prevent this out of office. Have provisions in place including criminal prosecution for banks that fail.

    Let’s get it on.

    We won’t.

    ♫……………………………………………….♫ (Same old Song)

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Jr Nobel Prize Winner in Economics fan boi says:

      BTW—theres nothing wrong with making the depositors pay however it gets set up. As long as the peeples know, then it is their choice.

      Just like going to jail now for criminal offenses.

      Know what I mean?

      RICH = CRIMINAL.

      • Nosey says:

        Bla Bla Bla…

        Where’s the Ha Ha Ha?!

        You didn’t even start in about how Obama is saving us all by increasing the national debt. No mention of the magic trillion dollar coin either.

        You’re starting to loose your touch there BOOB!

        • So what says:

          Jesus christ even a third grader remedial speller knows the difference between lose and loose.

  8. deowll says:

    Not to worry guys. BO has given his opinion that a “crisis” won’t happen for ten years which still leaves the question of why he’s arming DHS to fight a war and there is no question that he is arming DHS to fight a war.

  9. Bob says:

    Guess what, if you can’t trust them from stealing it from your paltry little savings nest egg, your 401K and retirement accounts are next.

    But the Stock Market is at an all time HIGH! And those numbers don’t lie. Right Boob?

    Onward! Toward the recovery!

    BWAHAHAHAHA!

    • bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist and Jr Nobel Prize Winner in Economics fan boi says:

      Bob, what are you babbling about? The stock market says xyz stock is selling for $ss and if you sell it today that is what you will get minus commission and what not. Add all those stock price up and you get the Stock Market value, the Dow Jones or whatever numbers you are looking at.

      How is that not real?

      USA–been in a very mild 2% growth market for 5 years now. That is called a recovery compared to Europe that institutied austerity measures and caused everyone a Double Dip Receession with at least the UK looking at maybe a triple dip with others to follow if Cripes takes them down.

      So…. what the hey are you talking about?

      • Nosey says:

        Maybe how CUTTING SPENDING is actually doing the REVERSE of what your so called expert’s said would happen.

        Try listening to your own puppets a little more.

  10. MikeN says:

    So what? They are merely making the wealthy pay their fair share. People on this site routinely call for taxing wealth. How do you suppose such a thing would be accomplished?

  11. bobbo, heres one more for you says:

    So what is a troll? Someone who posts the idiocy of thinking the USA is buying up ammo to stock their Homeland Check Points and Internment Camps but they are going to fight back…. or someone who quite accurately calls that the position of a Loser?

    Hmmmmm?

    The Losers say:

    Liberty–playing with his boogers as usual.
    Mr D..evidently buying into the “Red Dawn” fantasy as well with the exception being Red Dawn is Obama.
    Do-ill in a rare response shows us why. Confusing cause and effect doesn’t speak well of the pro gun nut position.

    Same as it always was. They’d be a harmless clusterf*ck of useless individuals….. if they didn’t have guns—-and the fantasies to go with the.

    Strange fetish. Katrina and the New Orleans Martial Law that was experienced. How did the gun fetishers distinguish themselves there? I think they shot defenseless people on an overpass and that was about it. ((Bonus for who they were!—Ha, ha.))

    OTOH–haven’t been any organized gangs of gun rights nuts taking collective action. I wonder whats holding them back what with the rampant loss of our rights. What are you guys waiting for????

    • Nosey says:

      Maybe they’re out there WORKING!

      I can’t imagine what it is that you get paid to do. But as long here blogging about crap you have no idea about then your not as likely to be out in the real world making any kind of difference whatsoever.

      Talk about being a LOOSER!

    • Mr Diesel says:

      Bobbo, No Red Dawn fantasy. If you think I will sit back and watch the government take my property because of their incompetence you are quite wrong.

      As for all the ammo purchases it takes a lot of ammo to qualify and practice every year. No big mystery there.

    • Mextli says:

      It was NOPD that shot the people on the Danziger bridge. The same merry band of brothers that confiscated every gun they could find.

      This led to the US Senate voting on July 13, 2006, to approve an amendment to the Homeland Security Appropriations Act 2007 that prohibited the confiscation of legally owned guns during emergencies.

        • bobbo, heres one more for you says:

          Yea, except there was already a law against that, the Constitution if my made up fact is not accurate, and the confiscation took place under “Emergency Orders.”

          “We don’t need no stinkin badges.” What make anyone think a piece of paper is going to stop an out of control police department, Nat Guard Post, US Army??? ===> I thought it was supposed to be Nuts with Guns? Now you tell me you are relying on a piece of paper?

          Tell me it ain’t so?

    • ± says:

      You are just a troll and often a drunken troll. For right or wrong you are tolerated by management. It is a mystery.

  12. Irving of Berlin says:

    Still no one here who actually pays atention to the news, eh?

    The regulation proposed in Cyprus got no Yes votes. Zero, nada, nuttin, honey.

    The regulation proposed by one high-placed politician in NZ hasn’t even been made into a bill to be discussed or voted on.

    I know most of y’all types who rely on NRA testicles to fill out your knickers consider democracy an impediment; but, getting off your rusty dusty often succeeds in stopping political stupidity, it just requires more effort than blog blather.

  13. ECA says:

    I THOUGHT:

    There was a LAW against using MONEY to MAKE money..

    yOU cant MAKE MONEY FROM NOTHING.. You can gain money from selling/trading and other ways..its mostly from Shifting around WHAT IS THERE..but money from MONEY that isnt there…IS NOT LEGAL..

    BANKS,
    that are going bankrupt, MEANS someone is making to much in WAGES, esp at the top..

    WHY is it that the GUYS at the bottom, have to PAY for incompetence AT THE TOP..

    • ECA says:

      Im sorry,
      but there are TO MANY LAYERS in business NOW..
      when you DEAL with 1 COMPANY, you should be DEALING with 1 company…NOT 3-7 that OWN ALL the companies in the world.

      This is a GIANT PONZY..

    • ± says:

      The default for typing prose is caps lock off.

  14. Admfubar says:

    i think the new zealander bankers better watch their backs! this is not a safe thing to do!

    • getintouch says:

      +1 on that, Mao had it right, and the bankers need to suck on that barrel…

  15. Rick says:

    I’m not worried about the government, I’m worried that our government is hijacked by big banks and THEY are the ones telling our government to do things like this.

    • scandihoovian says:

      Goldman Sachs already accomplished the hijacking in the 80’s when they joined the Reagan Administration. Financial institutions and government have been having closeted circle jerks for decades.

      • msbpodcast says:

        The came out of the closet back in 2002 and have been holding their throbbing members in faces and down our throats or firmly up our asses ever since.

  16. Mextli says:

    I should have thought that the more liberal minded would see this drain on deposits for what it is, a tax.

    Naturally, it is our patriotic duty to pay our taxes and smile.

  17. bobbo, heres one more for you says:

    Mr Diesel seemingly in disparate company nonetheless says:
    3/19/2013 at 4:45 pm

    Bobbo, No Red Dawn fantasy. If you think I will sit back and watch the government take my property because of their incompetence you are quite wrong. //// The fantasy as your are tailoring it is that the government has any interest at all in your property. But if the government did, they would foreclose on you and you would bend over and take it. Just like all the other fun fantacists spouting off with you. Mr D–you like guns and that is dandy. But you could do so much more with your time. Learn to whittle?

    As for all the ammo purchases it takes a lot of ammo to qualify and practice every year. No big mystery there. /// From memory, the Gov uses about 15 million rounds a year for practice and testing. Seems shockingly high to me but that is still a small % of the claimed purchase. Last thread this came up I posted a link to the Fed Purchase Contract showing Loser to be wrong. Figures he hasn’t changed his mind, speaking of small calibers and what not.

  18. MikeN says:

    California has done something like this, taking away a tax credit, and telling residents they have to pay back the tax credit going back five years including interest.

    If I’m there or in Illinois, I’d be wary about keeping money in banks.

  19. Uncle Patso says:

    If I may quote from the original linked article: Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman quite rightly and properly says,

    ‘ “Open Bank Resolution is unprecedented in the world. Most OECD countries run deposit insurance schemes which protect people’s deposits up to a maximum ranging from $100,000 – $250,000,” Dr Norman said.

    “OBR is not in line with Australia, which protects bank deposits up to $250,000.

    “A deposit insurance scheme is a much simpler, well-tested alternative to Open Bank Resolution. It rewards safe banks with lower premiums and limits the cost to taxpayers of a bank failure.” ‘

  20. Irving of Berlin says:

    Cripes, some of you are still wandering through the sacred halls of paranoia on this question!

    The FDIC was founded in 1934 as exactly the opposite of this so-called remedy. So-called because it still hasn’t been voted in or imposed anywhere. This exists only in fear and dementia.

    In all this time, the FDIC hasn’t failed to provide every dime insured – and in fact that body’s response to the Great Recession was to increase the size of deposits insured.

    • Rick says:

      The $250,000 FDIC insurance limit is a temporary one, its very likely it will go back down to $100,000.
      FDIC is woefully underfunded right now, and couldn’t possibly pay out enough to insure all citizens with accounts.
      The Reagan Savings & Loan crash wiped out the resources of the FSLIC and the RTC.

  21. Rodney says:

    Take my money, …please.

    I tell ‘ya. No respect.

  22. noname says:

    Banks are both the governed and the government’s economic overlords, such that; we dare not let them fail! Indeed, as good citizens we must feed and grow them until they are too corp-ulent to fail!

    Citizen, pray-tell what should you expect? Are not Americans to be the Voice of Business! Has Fox News Network not shown you, what is good for Wall Street is good for America?

    American’s have believed that Wall Street capitalism should define American business. American’s have believed Wall Street should define K Street. American’s have believed K Street should define our Laws. American’s have believed money is the voice to buy our votes! It’s a perfect business cycle and American’s believe!

    Business is people, our Supreme Court says so, and American’s believe! What’s good for people is good for business and American’s believe! It’s legal and constitutional and American’s believe!

    Money buys justice and truth, American’s believe more!
    Those who can’t guild the pockets of justice must be detained for any insignificant legal infraction and American’s believe!

    You know, Kristallnacht, the broken windows criminological theory of public norm-setting and American’s believe!

    Do you believe?

    Banks, political elites, wealthy elites are by definition far outside the norm, they are the exceptions we must ignore their infractions and American’s believe! Our legal system must strictly even violently enforce, regulate, oversee, monitor, track, maintain, demand public norms and American’s believe!

    Common people must be pull down, held back, least they become too demanding, wanting a say in self-governance or becoming too big for their breeches and American’s believe!

    American’s must believe; we have far too many nay-Sayers, far too many claiming the king has no clothes!

    Be positive, move forward, be obedient and one with your Over-Lord!

    The Daleks and banks only want to do well by U.S.

    Why do you continue to resist, believe? Do not our brave solders die for your transgressions, believe?

    Take the American oath and believe! May the Peace and Prosperity Alliance follow, monitor, track, maintain and track you always!

    Be good, be American!

    • RS says:

      Not a clue that Dodd(D)-Frank(D) codified the too-big-to-fail requirement that taxpayers bail out banks.

      Bankers fund more Democrats than they do conservatives.
      It’s not just guilt, it’s services for payment.

      • noname says:

        Really, there are an array of principal aspects

        Dodd(D)-Frank(D) Act

        It introduced more stringent regulatory capital requirements, incorporated the Volcker Rule and”required Large companies to submit “living
        wills” and update periodically to regulators in the event of financial distress”

        Then you have Sarbanes-Oxley Act, by Sen. Paul S. Sarbanes (D-MD) and Rep. Michael G. Oxley (R-OH), was signed into law by George W. Bush in July 2002.

  23. nunyac says:

    The prospect of putting your savings in physical precious metals is looking better and better. Think I’ll “RUN” down to the bank and start that process next week. Stocks should be a good shelter against dollar devaluation (printing) but if the government can pass a law that justifies stealing money from a savings account then why not a law justifying theft from a securities account.

    • orchidcup says:

      There are already laws that justify theft by the government.

      It is called the tax code.

      • LibertyLover says:

        The largest theft occurs through inflation of the money supply. With the Fed printing money hand over fist and the government griping about a reduction in the automatic increase in spending to pay for the automatic increase of the budget, Americans are being robbed blind just by breathing.

        Precious metals really are the only true safe haven. They won’t increase in value over time but they will be worth more “dollars” over time.

      • noname says:

        Of course orchidcup!

        When you drive on roads, protected by police (unlike living in Mexico), educated in schools, breath air without choking (unlike living in China)….you sir are an accomplice in theft and more.

        Give us your address so that our courts can pluck you from your lazyboy and deliver swift justice!

  24. MikeN says:

    Whereas in the US, they merely take from the public to give to government workers.

    • noname says:

      MikeN,

      You mean:

      “Whereas in the US, they merely take from the public to give to” BANKS or WALL STREET!

      Bill Cosby’s “Brain Damage” could just as well be talking about all conservatives!

  25. Hmeyers says:

    Putting aside other issues:

    Funny how the guy who has his $$$ invested in stocks or real estate isn’t affected …

    Just people with $$$ in the bank.

    Under this plan, you should invest all your money in investments and attempts to raid the bank won’t affect you at all.

    [Skipping the other issues here …]

  26. Glenn E. says:

    I can remember thinking once, that NZ would be a really nice place to live. Where all the crap the US Govt. gets up to, doesn’t happen. But now this happens. What went wrong NZ? When did you lose your soul? Was it the film industry invasion, that cinched it? They came because of the cheaper labor, (or lack of labor unions). And sucked all the good sense out of the nation, along with the scenery.

  27. Liz says:

    This is a load of lies, I live in NZ and it is not happening.